Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: mugnapper on October 24, 2022, 02:35:33 pm
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Rishi gets his own thread as HMS Truss breaks apart on the rocks and our Saviour Boris retreats to the Caribbean to lick his stigmata.
Feel free to post your thoughts on our new, silent leader here.
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<censored>
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Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
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First thoughts:
Sunak is likely to survive I think. The Conservatives have just proved they want peace and quiet and stability by engineering a 1 man shortlist noticeably lacking the divisive Piglet and the lunatic tendancy. Sunak is not a fool. He'll not make Truss's mistake of excluding everyone not on her side. He's economically literate. He will raise taxes and cut services now and engineer a mini boom a year before the next general election. The outcome will depend on how much middle class pain there is and how long memories of chaos will subsist. Look out for a concerted propaganda campaign focused on competence and stability.
BobG
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I think we can all say for certain that Sunak is a sea change from the previous two, what becomes of his premiership will be seen in due course. Does he have the right formula for the country or could others do a better job in the current economic climate?
What we do know is that his elevation to the top job has calmed the markets to a great extent which will be a relief to any resident of this country for who the cost of living is becoming serious with raising inflation, energy and living costs. That's got to be a positive for even the most ardent and vociferous supporter of alternative views.
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Another WEF Kitson that's got no clue how the plebbs live.
CBDC incoming
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Let’s hope he can do a good job.
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Let’s hope he can do a good job.
Yes let's hope his, and Hunts version of Austerity isn't as crippling for the country as it looks like being.
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Let’s hope he can do a good job.
Yes let's hope his, and Hunts version of Austerity isn't as crippling for the country as it looks like being.
I’m sure he’ll do his best. I quite like Rishi. It’s been ages since we had a PM we can all admire.
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Let’s hope he can do a good job.
Yes let's hope his, and Hunts version of Austerity isn't as crippling for the country as it looks like being.
I’m sure he’ll do his best. I quite like Rishi. It’s been ages since we had a PM we can all admire.
It might be two more years before that happens.
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Let's see what he actually does. If he keeps Hunt as chancellor that's quite a stable pairing at least and we can all debate the policy not anything else that goes with it.
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Let’s hope he can do a good job.
Yes let's hope his, and Hunts version of Austerity isn't as crippling for the country as it looks like being.
I’m sure he’ll do his best. I quite like Rishi. It’s been ages since we had a PM we can all admire.
Tea just came out of my nose lol
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After his micro speech he never even ended with the words " thank you".
Mrs Coleman said it's because he isn't British.
You would think that after his parents paid around £40,000 per annum fees at Winchester College he would have been taught to say the magic words "THANK YOU" AND NOT HAVE A TRAGIC PREGNANT PAUSE AFTER THE SPEECH.
https://whichschooladvisor.com/uk/school-review/winchester-college/fees-and-availability
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Don't confuse a sharp suit and a slick brand with competence .
The he was right about the Truss policies in the summer isn't a measure of competence the same as having the capability to add two and two and come up with four doesn't make you a mathematics genius .
This slippery tw@t proceeded to add to the country's economic misery whilst chancellor , holds a Green Card in the US and a wife non too keen on paying tax , he's on the record bragging about taking money from deprived areas and handing it to affluent areas like Tunbridge Wells , he also broke covid rules making him the second PM in UK history to fall foul of the law .
His huge wealth and privileged education in my opinion gives him absolutely no experience of real life and neither is he relatable to 95% of the country .
If this smug bleedah thinks he's all that and wants to back his plans up then call an election then sunny boy .
Nar thought not .
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Let’s hope he can do a good job.
Yes let's hope his, and Hunts version of Austerity isn't as crippling for the country as it looks like being.
I’m sure he’ll do his best. I quite like Rishi. It’s been ages since we had a PM we can all admire.
Tea just came out of my nose lol
Lol
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Don't confuse a sharp suit and a slick brand with competence .
The he was right about the Truss policies in the summer isn't a measure of competence the same as having the capability to add two and two and come up with four doesn't make you a mathematics genius .
This slippery tw@t proceeded to add to the country's economic misery whilst chancellor , holds a Green Card in the US and a wife non too keen on paying tax , he's on the record bragging about taking money from deprived areas and handing it to affluent areas like Tunbridge Wells , he also broke covid rules making him the second PM in UK history to fall foul of the law .
His huge wealth and privileged education in my opinion gives him absolutely no experience of real life and neither is he relatable to 95% of the country .
If this smug bleedah thinks he's all that and wants to back his plans up then call an election then sunny boy .
Nar thought not .
I believe he's given up his Green Card. The rest of what you say is spot on though.
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Don't confuse a sharp suit and a slick brand with competence .
The he was right about the Truss policies in the summer isn't a measure of competence the same as having the capability to add two and two and come up with four doesn't make you a mathematics genius .
This slippery tw@t proceeded to add to the country's economic misery whilst chancellor , holds a Green Card in the US and a wife non too keen on paying tax , he's on the record bragging about taking money from deprived areas and handing it to affluent areas like Tunbridge Wells , he also broke covid rules making him the second PM in UK history to fall foul of the law .
His huge wealth and privileged education in my opinion gives him absolutely no experience of real life and neither is he relatable to 95% of the country .
If this smug bleedah thinks he's all that and wants to back his plans up then call an election then sunny boy .
Nar thought not .
Come on Tyke. Calling an election now will be people voting against Johnson and Truss and the mess they’ve left as PMs, not Sunak.
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After his micro speech he never even ended with the words " thank you".
Mrs Coleman said it's because he isn't British.
You would think that after his parents paid around £40,000 per annum fees at Winchester College he would have been taught to say the magic words "THANK YOU" AND NOT HAVE A TRAGIC PREGNANT PAUSE AFTER THE SPEECH.
https://whichschooladvisor.com/uk/school-review/winchester-college/fees-and-availability
Did you correct Mrs Coleman?
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First British-Asian PM! Congratulations
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Rishi's silent campaign has given me a great idea
Imagine at the next General Election, every candidate cannot utter a single word on the Campaign Trail. That'd save a lot of arguments on here lol
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First British-Asian PM! Congratulations
And the youngest for a century.
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He may not be competent in the sense of what you or I might believe in Tyke, but he is politically and he is economically because he has credibility with those that matter - Tory party grandees, the markets and middle England. He's the best chance the Conservative party has got because politically he possesses competence.
BobG
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Just read that Sunak is the youngest PM for 200 years, and the least experienced ever in terms of time in Parliament before becoming PM.
That leaves me a bit uneasy, I have to say. He's going to have to represent the UK across a range of issues with a range of opposite numbers wanting to take advantage of his lack of experience and maturity.
It's a damning indictment on the state of the Tory party that there is no-one with serious experience and gravitas to even give him a run for his money.
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Good luck in dealing with the ERG when you backtrack on NI Protocol and scrapping EU Laws - youre' gonna need it!
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
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I hadn't noticed before but it looks like we've got another PM who has been voice trained by Kraftwerk.
After his very weak address to the nation, the two Sky news reporters looked at each other and laughed a bit. One even found herself saying he's a political robot... She began to hesitate as she said it, the look dawning on her face that Rupert wouldn't want to hear that.
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Murdoch doesn't own Sky News these days.
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Murdoch doesn't own Sky News these days.
I did not know that. The coverage still seems to be right of centre.
Edit. Or maybe not, it turns out the CEO of Comcast is a Democrat.
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First British-Asian PM! Congratulations
3 female PM's
1st British Asian PM
Meanwhile across the opposition benches ????
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Maybe he should be given a chance to put stuff back on track before everyone gets too uppity about him.
You know, a bit like our football forum fans have been asked to do with Danny Schofield.
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Doesn't look like Hancock's getting a job in the cabinet .
https://twitter.com/Number10cat/status/1584559425700102145?s=19
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Maybe he should be given a chance to put stuff back on track before everyone gets too uppity about him.
You know, a bit like our football forum fans have been asked to do with Danny Schofield.
Ill give him time but will call him "Hi risk Anus" till then
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In a page and a bit I haven't seen a single comment thnat warrants the word 'uppity'. There's been wishes he does well and comments on his publicly available history but nobody has abused him. If he brings the Conservative Party to its senses and does an ok job I for one will applaud. The whole bloody country needs that. I'm not sure he can deliver that, but I'm hoping and the tone of this thread so far suggests to me that everybody else is hoping that too.
BobG
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
After one almost mature post, Billy quickly reverts to his norm.
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In a page and a bit I haven't seen a single comment thnat warrants the word 'uppity'. There's been wishes he does well and comments on his publicly available history but nobody has abused him. If he brings the Conservative Party to its senses and does an ok job I for one will applaud. The whole bloody country needs that. I'm not sure he can deliver that, but I'm hoping and the tone of this thread so far suggests to me that everybody else is hoping that too.
BobG
I don’t think you have read all the posts, Bobby Gee.
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In a page and a bit I haven't seen a single comment thnat warrants the word 'uppity'. There's been wishes he does well and comments on his publicly available history but nobody has abused him. If he brings the Conservative Party to its senses and does an ok job I for one will applaud. The whole bloody country needs that. I'm not sure he can deliver that, but I'm hoping and the tone of this thread so far suggests to me that everybody else is hoping that too.
BobG
I think I did to a certain extent Bob , I'm angry , very angry , more angry about the situation and the way the Tories put party before country .
As far as I'm concerned Sunak is not my PM and until we see a GE he never will be .
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Unfortunately Tyke, he very much IS your PM.
You and everyone else who signed up for Brexit facilitated the real purpose of Brexit. Getting Johnson into No 10. That was all it was ever about. The shit show that has progressed from that was inevitable. And predicted by some of us, 7 years back.
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Unfortunately Tyke, he very much IS your PM.
You and everyone else who signed up for Brexit facilitated the real purpose of Brexit. Getting Johnson into No 10. That was all it was ever about. The shit show that has progressed from that was inevitable. And predicted by some of us, 7 years back.
I think you'll find that in 2016 Cameron was PM and was followed by May .
Johnson never mind Sunak weren't anywhere near the top job .
The Tories voted Johnson as leader and the country voted for him to be PM , I never ticked either of those boxes .
If you want a game of collective responsibility go and have a word with the sewer rats in the Labour Party who facilitated May and Johnson over Corbyn .
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Unfortunately Tyke, he very much IS your PM.
You and everyone else who signed up for Brexit facilitated the real purpose of Brexit. Getting Johnson into No 10. That was all it was ever about. The shit show that has progressed from that was inevitable. And predicted by some of us, 7 years back.
Lol
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2 years is a very long time in politics and Rishi is a very clever man.
I think the next election will be closer than we think.
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Unfortunately Tyke, he very much IS your PM.
You and everyone else who signed up for Brexit facilitated the real purpose of Brexit. Getting Johnson into No 10. That was all it was ever about. The shit show that has progressed from that was inevitable. And predicted by some of us, 7 years back.
I think you'll find that in 2016 Cameron was PM and was followed by May .
Johnson never mind Sunak weren't anywhere near the top job .
The Tories voted Johnson as leader and the country voted for him to be PM , I never ticked either of those boxes .
If you want a game of collective responsibility go and have a word with the sewer rats in the Labour Party who facilitated May and Johnson over Corbyn .
Tyke.
It was all entirely about getting Johnson into No10.
It didn't work immediately as Give knifed him. But Johnson worked tirelessly to tie May up and bring her down. He took advantage of the civil war that Brexit caused in the Tory party to further his own ambition.
I can't believe I'm having to spell this out to be honest.
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Why does a multi millionaire want this 150k a year job?
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2 years is a very long time in politics and Rishi is a very clever man.
I think the next election will be closer than we think.
That will probably depend on if he “delivers” to all of the uk & not just the priviliged high earners.
Theres a lot of “floating voters” out there that arent blessed with the wealth of the top earners.
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Do you EVER offer an constructive comment Belton?
BobG
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Why does a multi millionaire want this 150k a year job?
It’s not about the money.
Kudos, power, influence, the ability to network with world leaders on the global scale. Not just now but well into the future, well after his tenure as PM.
The legacy of having been the PM of one of the worlds leading countries.
He is being described in Indian media as “ Indian Son rises over the Empire”
He has reached what will be to him, the pinnacle of his political career.
The equivalent would be a shop floor worker becoming CEO, if that was possible.
You don’t hear about Theresa May much these days . Her stint as PM though has given her a licence to print money for the rest of her life, not that she needs it. Having been PM gives them the licence to pretty much do what they want, on a global scale. Guest speaking. Consultancy.
Book writing. She has even been muted as the next NATO Secretary General. A post she would not be in contention for without her having been PM. The list of benefits go on. Having been PM of the UK opens doors globally that simply wouldn’t open if you were just an MP. Period.
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
After one almost mature post, Billy quickly reverts to his norm.
Whereas yours never vary in nature.
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Do you EVER offer an constructive comment Belton?
BobG
Again, Bobby Gee - try reading ALL the posts, you silly man.
Oh, and do you know how to construct an sentence?
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
After one almost mature post, Billy quickly reverts to his norm.
Whereas yours never vary in nature.
And what nature is that, Glyn? And how are my posts in, say, this thread, unvaried in nature?
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Maybe he should be given a chance to put stuff back on track before everyone gets too uppity about him.
You know, a bit like our football forum fans have been asked to do with Danny Schofield.
He was right to say we face a challenge. The dice are loaded against him. He has two years. Right now the country is in an energy crisis and that is not going away. Whilst Putin remains in power energy costs are going to be a severe drag on European prosperity. The U.K. Is heavily exposed because gas is such a large part of our energy mix and we are heavily reliant on the European gas market.
This year will be bad, next winter will be worse if Putin remains in power or if Russian pro war nationalists remain in power.
For Sunak it means it's completely out of his control. I think he will respond to the energy crisis with a lot more austerity and unfortunately for him, I don't see relief coming anytime soon.
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Why does a multi millionaire want this 150k a year job?
It’s not about the money.
Kudos, power, influence, the ability to network with world leaders on the global scale. Not just now but well into the future, well after his tenure as PM.
The legacy of having been the PM of one of the worlds leading countries.
He is being described in Indian media as “ Indian Son rises over the Empire”
He has reached what will be to him, the pinnacle of his political career.
The equivalent would be a shop floor worker becoming CEO, if that was possible.
You don’t hear about Theresa May much these days . Her stint as PM though has given her a licence to print money for the rest of her life, not that she needs it. Having been PM gives them the licence to pretty much do what they want, on a global scale. Guest speaking. Consultancy.
Book writing. She has even been muted as the next NATO Secretary General. A post she would not be in contention for without her having been PM. The list of benefits go on. Having been PM of the UK opens doors globally that simply wouldn’t open if you were just an MP. Period.
Is this what Starmer wants as well?
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Why does a multi millionaire want this 150k a year job?
It’s not about the money.
Kudos, power, influence, the ability to network with world leaders on the global scale. Not just now but well into the future, well after his tenure as PM.
The legacy of having been the PM of one of the worlds leading countries.
He is being described in Indian media as “ Indian Son rises over the Empire”
He has reached what will be to him, the pinnacle of his political career.
The equivalent would be a shop floor worker becoming CEO, if that was possible.
You don’t hear about Theresa May much these days . Her stint as PM though has given her a licence to print money for the rest of her life, not that she needs it. Having been PM gives them the licence to pretty much do what they want, on a global scale. Guest speaking. Consultancy.
Book writing. She has even been muted as the next NATO Secretary General. A post she would not be in contention for without her having been PM. The list of benefits go on. Having been PM of the UK opens doors globally that simply wouldn’t open if you were just an MP. Period.
So, in a nutshell, for the same reasons as any other Party leader would like the top job.
Even the other ones who are also millionaires.
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Why does a multi millionaire want this 150k a year job?
It’s not about the money.
Kudos, power, influence, the ability to network with world leaders on the global scale. Not just now but well into the future, well after his tenure as PM.
The legacy of having been the PM of one of the worlds leading countries.
He is being described in Indian media as “ Indian Son rises over the Empire”
He has reached what will be to him, the pinnacle of his political career.
The equivalent would be a shop floor worker becoming CEO, if that was possible.
You don’t hear about Theresa May much these days . Her stint as PM though has given her a licence to print money for the rest of her life, not that she needs it. Having been PM gives them the licence to pretty much do what they want, on a global scale. Guest speaking. Consultancy.
Book writing. She has even been muted as the next NATO Secretary General. A post she would not be in contention for without her having been PM. The list of benefits go on. Having been PM of the UK opens doors globally that simply wouldn’t open if you were just an MP. Period.
Is this what Starmer wants as well?
It’s what they all aspire to. And if they denied it, I would imagine they would be lying.
Someone will no doubt kid themself that Starmer would want to be PM “ for the working class people of the uk etc etc”
But that would be far from reality.
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Maybe he should be given a chance to put stuff back on track before everyone gets too uppity about him.
You know, a bit like our football forum fans have been asked to do with Danny Schofield.
He was right to say we face a challenge. The dice are loaded against him. He has two years. Right now the country is in an energy crisis and that is not going away. Whilst Putin remains in power energy costs are going to be a severe drag on European prosperity. The U.K. Is heavily exposed because gas is such a large part of our energy mix and we are heavily reliant on the European gas market.
This year will be bad, next winter will be worse if Putin remains in power or if Russian pro war nationalists remain in power.
For Sunak it means it's completely out of his control. I think he will respond to the energy crisis with a lot more austerity and unfortunately for him, I don't see relief coming anytime soon.
Well I can see a red flag for Labour ( pardon the pun )
Austerity 2 will probably be rolled out , a culture / class war backed up by the usual suspects in the media waged on the trade unions and people movements .
Then inflation starts to come down , mortgage rates come down , the markets are happy just in time for a GE .
Sunak comes out the other side waving a fiscal credibility card and a fairly ambitious manifesto .
Middle England buy it , better the devil you know is in play and the Tories scrape in with a small majority .
Billy and Sydney blame the brexiteers for the defeat .
Nostadramus Of Wombwell .
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Maybe he should be given a chance to put stuff back on track before everyone gets too uppity about him.
You know, a bit like our football forum fans have been asked to do with Danny Schofield.
He was right to say we face a challenge. The dice are loaded against him. He has two years. Right now the country is in an energy crisis and that is not going away. Whilst Putin remains in power energy costs are going to be a severe drag on European prosperity. The U.K. Is heavily exposed because gas is such a large part of our energy mix and we are heavily reliant on the European gas market.
This year will be bad, next winter will be worse if Putin remains in power or if Russian pro war nationalists remain in power.
For Sunak it means it's completely out of his control. I think he will respond to the energy crisis with a lot more austerity and unfortunately for him, I don't see relief coming anytime soon.
Well I can see a red flag for Labour ( pardon the pun )
Austerity 2 will probably be rolled out , a culture / class war backed up by the usual suspects in the media waged on the trade unions and people movements .
Then inflation starts to come down , mortgage rates come down , the markets are happy just in time for a GE .
Sunak comes out the other side waving a fiscal credibility card and a fairly ambitious manifesto .
Middle England buy it , better the devil you know is in play and the Tories scrape in with a small majority .
Billy and Sydney blame the brexiteers for the defeat .
Nostadramus Of Wombwell .
Inflation might come down a bit but realistically the cost of living will remain high.
Whilst Putin keeps the gas taps turned off energy will remain expensive because it's not cheap shipping LNG from North America or the Middle East. What's more OPEC is backing Russia by limiting oil supplies to keep prices high.
And here is the thing. Next winter is going to be harder in Europe because the gas stores Europe has built up over this summer will be depleted and they won't be able to refill from Russia again. Even more scarce gas, yet higher prices, more inflation. That it will affect the UK particularly because will are so reliant on gas.
As things stand inflation and hardship is what's coming.
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Why not join a union to help out tyke
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First British-Asian PM! Congratulations
3 female PM's
1st British Asian PM
Meanwhile across the opposition benches ????
One of the above was elected.
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First British-Asian PM! Congratulations
3 female PM's
1st British Asian PM
Meanwhile across the opposition benches ????
One of the above was elected.
Thatcher and May were elected .
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Why not join a union to help out tyke
Why don't you join the Liberal Democrats ?
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First British-Asian PM! Congratulations
3 female PM's
1st British Asian PM
Meanwhile across the opposition benches ????
One of the above was elected.
Thatcher and May were elected .
Ha, I forgot May was elected!
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
After one almost mature post, Billy quickly reverts to his norm.
Whereas yours never vary in nature.
Sounds like Belton is having another one of those periods where he takes offence at people posting facts.
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Why not join a union to help out tyke
Why don't you join the Liberal Democrats ?
Practising in front of the mirror again tyke"
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Sunak was the only option for the Tories short term. The problem they have is that he is far from appealing to the electorate. He may gain tracton with policies in some quarters though his undoubted aim is to pass on as much money to the elites as is possible. Will he go all out in that before the next election or will he risk getting a second term?
I think his ego will push him towards thinking of a second term. Beyond him being so unappealing as a person, the big elephant in the room there is racism. Just as I think was his failing amongst Tory members when he was up against Truss, there are a lot of people out there who won't vote for him due to his colour and race.
If he was a personable candidate he would stand a chance, but he isn't. As to how much of a factor that will be we will see, but it most definitely is a factor even amongst Tory voters.
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first day on the job ............
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Sunak was the only option for the Tories short term. The problem they have is that he is far from appealing to the electorate. He may gain tracton with policies in some quarters though his undoubted aim is to pass on as much money to the elites as is possible. Will he go all out in that before the next election or will he risk getting a second term?
I think his ego will push him towards thinking of a second term. Beyond him being so unappealing as a person, the big elephant in the room there is racism. Just as I think was his failing amongst Tory members when he was up against Truss, there are a lot of people out there who won't vote for him due to his colour and race.
If he was a personable candidate he would stand a chance, but he isn't. As to how much of a factor that will be we will see, but it most definitely is a factor even amongst Tory voters.
Wasn't Mordaunt a more personable candidate?
She would likely have delivered the same policies with either Sunak or Hunt as chancellor. I think they've made the wrong choice again.
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
After one almost mature post, Billy quickly reverts to his norm.
Whereas yours never vary in nature.
Sounds like Belton is having another one of those periods where he takes offence at people posting facts.
What the f**k are you blathering on about now?
You’re not doing a very good job of ignoring me, are you?
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Sunak was the only option for the Tories short term. The problem they have is that he is far from appealing to the electorate. He may gain tracton with policies in some quarters though his undoubted aim is to pass on as much money to the elites as is possible. Will he go all out in that before the next election or will he risk getting a second term?
I think his ego will push him towards thinking of a second term. Beyond him being so unappealing as a person, the big elephant in the room there is racism. Just as I think was his failing amongst Tory members when he was up against Truss, there are a lot of people out there who won't vote for him due to his colour and race.
If he was a personable candidate he would stand a chance, but he isn't. As to how much of a factor that will be we will see, but it most definitely is a factor even amongst Tory voters.
Wasn't Mordaunt a more personable candidate?
She would likely have delivered the same policies with either Sunak or Hunt as chancellor. I think they've made the wrong choice again.
Yes, i think she is a better option for an election but don't think she had enough support amongst MPs right now and especially after the Truss fiasco, that was where Sunak won out.
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
After one almost mature post, Billy quickly reverts to his norm.
Whereas yours never vary in nature.
Sounds like Belton is having another one of those periods where he takes offence at people posting facts.
What the f**k are you blathering on about now?
You’re not doing a very good job of ignoring me, are you?
Ha, you've also been tarred with the BST ignore feathers too. Not very sticky are they, but then I think that's a positive thing. It's good to talk :)
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Plainly she didn't have the support amongst MPs. For whatever reason they appear to have made the wrong choice again.
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But one thing in his favour, he's absolutely open and honest about who he is in politics to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A
More of that honesty please.
After one almost mature post, Billy quickly reverts to his norm.
Whereas yours never vary in nature.
Sounds like Belton is having another one of those periods where he takes offence at people posting facts.
What the f**k are you blathering on about now?
You’re not doing a very good job of ignoring me, are you?
Ha, you've also been tarred with the BST ignore feathers too. Not very sticky are they, but then I think that's a positive thing. It's good to talk :)
I think he’s obsessed with me. It’s a bit unnerving.
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo & Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
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I think he’s obsessed with me. It’s a bit unnerving.
The avatar is unnerving, and I can't imagine him looking like anything but that in real life. It has been one of my dreams to meet the real BST in person even if only to slay that monster of an avatar and see the sweet human himself.
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo & Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I agree, but I don’t think Starmer has it in him. Judging by the amount of open goals he’s failed to put away over the last two years, he’s not suddenly going to start scoring against a sturdy defence.
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo &amp; Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I agree, but I don’t think Starmer has it in him. Judging by the amount of open goals he’s failed to put away over the last two years, he’s not suddenly going to start scoring against a sturdy defence.
Have to agree. I think Raynor would have Sunak tied in knots. Will be an interesting watch when she gets the odd PMQ opportunities.
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo &amp; Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I agree, but I don’t think Starmer has it in him. Judging by the amount of open goals he’s failed to put away over the last two years, he’s not suddenly going to start scoring against a sturdy defence.
Starmer has seen off two Tory PMs so far. Judging by today's effort, I somehow don't see Sunak putting up much of a defence at PMQs.
Not that PMQs matters that much beyond political obsessives.
No, Sunaks big problem is the grim outlook for the economy.
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Why not join a union to help out tyke
Why don't you join the Liberal Democrats ?
Practising in front of the mirror again tyke"
Come on, Sydney, own up. You've been rumbled as a passionate lefty hating liberalist.
Don't be too ashamed; I liked Jo Swinson as well. Although in my case it was only her pendulous t*ts that impressed me.
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Important questions for sunak, levelling up, food banks and the triple lock I guess
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Do you EVER offer an constructive comment Belton?
BobG
Again, Bobby Gee - try reading ALL the posts, you silly man.
Oh, and do you know how to construct an sentence?
Have you had anything you have ever written published by a national publisher Belton? I have. Have you had anything you ever have written placed in a university library as a reference work Belton? I have.
As I asked: have you EVER contributed a single costructive post? It's a logical impossibility for you isn't it?
BobG
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Sunak spunked loads of money on furlough , BBL etc. A lot didn't get paid back, even his wife's businesses bailed on certain government coffers committments.
The banks and markets were fine with this.
Johnson oversaw billions being spunked on dodgy PPE contracts and track and trace.
He then kept sending millions upon millions to Ukraine.
The banks and markets were fine with this.
Truss and kwasi wutang planned a little "mini budget" to lower some taxes for the plebbs but the banks and markets didn't like this.
They are stealing and funneling our money and it's going to get a lot f**kin worse with the WEF puppet and his communist chancellor w**k sock in charge.
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Do you EVER offer an constructive comment Belton?
BobG
Again, Bobby Gee - try reading ALL the posts, you silly man.
Oh, and do you know how to construct an sentence?
Have you had anything you have ever written published by a national publisher Belton? I have. Have you had anything you ever have written placed in a university library as a reference work Belton? I have.
As I asked: have you EVER contributed a single costructive post? It's a logical impossibility for you isn't it?
BobG
I hope you had an costructive proof reader.
I once had a star letter printed in Viz.
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Why not join a union to help out tyke
Why don't you join the Liberal Democrats ?
Practising in front of the mirror again tyke"
Come on, Sydney, own up. You've been rumbled as a passionate lefty hating liberalist.
Don't be too ashamed; I liked Jo Swinson as well. Although in my case it was only her pendulous t*ts that impressed me.
1 x 0 is always zero Steve
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Important questions for sunak, levelling up, food banks and the triple lock I guess
Levelling up, food banks.
When you say important question for Sydney, do you mean to be asked of or to be addressed?
Because if it’s the latter, get out of that sun my friend!!
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Important questions for sunak, levelling up, food banks and the triple lock I guess
Levelling up, food banks.
When you say important question for Sydney, do you mean to be asked of or to be addressed?
Because if it’s the latter, get out of that sun my friend!!
If he tackles the inequality by genuinely addressing the above then he will be governing fairly and for all wouldn't you say Col? can't see it happening myself like. And just because he calls for unity in the tory party will in no way magically make all those problems disappear either. The fact that it's harder to make money for many many businesses in the UK due to brexit exacerbates the problems he has to deal with, but the fact that you have to ask shows you haven't really been paying attention?
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Why not join a union to help out tyke
Why don't you join the Liberal Democrats ?
Practising in front of the mirror again tyke"
Yet we can see straight through you from 10k miles away .
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo &amp; Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I agree, but I don’t think Starmer has it in him. Judging by the amount of open goals he’s failed to put away over the last two years, he’s not suddenly going to start scoring against a sturdy defence.
Starmer has seen off two Tory PMs so far. Judging by today's effort, I somehow don't see Sunak putting up much of a defence at PMQs.
Not that PMQs matters that much beyond political obsessives.
No, Sunaks big problem is the grim outlook for the economy.
Keith hasn't seen anybody off , at least not in the way you believe he has .
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Not sure you'd know with your head into GB News tyke
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo & Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I don't ever remember him being that good as chancellor. He gets very tetchy when challenged or corrected - as arrogant, over-entitled people tend to be. That was ignorable when you are presenting good news - but he wont be doing that very often. Mordaunt is much better.
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo &amp;amp; Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I agree, but I don’t think Starmer has it in him. Judging by the amount of open goals he’s failed to put away over the last two years, he’s not suddenly going to start scoring against a sturdy defence.
Starmer has seen off two Tory PMs so far. Judging by today's effort, I somehow don't see Sunak putting up much of a defence at PMQs.
Not that PMQs matters that much beyond political obsessives.
No, Sunaks big problem is the grim outlook for the economy.
Keith hasn't seen anybody off , at least not in the way you believe he has .
Well perhaps we might say outlasted?
Still, Starmer did wipe the floor with Johnson at PMQs most weeks and he was the fella who started asking questions about party gate.
Truss I accept pretty much self destructed.
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I was amazed last night watching the news.
There was nearly as much time spent highlighting the fact he was not a white male and his heritage and religious beliefs.
Love him or loathe him, agree with him or disagree with him, trust him or distrust him. What the hell has his skin colour got to do with it. It is about him as a man, a politician and a leader. I for one don’t give a monkeys about his heritage. All I’m bothered about are his capabilities. He’s a British male who has done well for himself
In my view it’s this type of unnecessary reporting that helps to fuel divide.
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I was amazed last night watching the news.
There was nearly as much time spent highlighting the fact he was not a white male and his heritage and religious beliefs.
Love him or loathe him, agree with him or disagree with him, trust him or distrust him. What the hell has his skin colour got to do with it. It is about him as a man, a politician and a leader. I for one don’t give a monkeys about his heritage. All I’m bothered about are his capabilities. He’s a British male who has done well for himself
In my view it’s this type of unnecessary reporting that helps to fuel divide.
That you don't understand the above make it difficult to know where to start, I'll leave this one for others.
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo &amp; Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I agree, but I don’t think Starmer has it in him. Judging by the amount of open goals he’s failed to put away over the last two years, he’s not suddenly going to start scoring against a sturdy defence.
Starmer has seen off two Tory PMs so far. Judging by today's effort, I somehow don't see Sunak putting up much of a defence at PMQs.
Not that PMQs matters that much beyond political obsessives.
No, Sunaks big problem is the grim outlook for the economy.
Keith hasn't seen anybody off , at least not in the way you believe he has .
Did you ever see Starmer toying with Johnson at PMQ’s? It was like a cat playing with a mouse.
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Sunak will seem like a ‘breath of fresh air’ for the tories at the dispatch box after Bojo &amp;amp; Truss.
Time to step up to the mark Kier.
I agree, but I don’t think Starmer has it in him. Judging by the amount of open goals he’s failed to put away over the last two years, he’s not suddenly going to start scoring against a sturdy defence.
Starmer has seen off two Tory PMs so far. Judging by today's effort, I somehow don't see Sunak putting up much of a defence at PMQs.
Not that PMQs matters that much beyond political obsessives.
No, Sunaks big problem is the grim outlook for the economy.
Keith hasn't seen anybody off , at least not in the way you believe he has .
Did you ever see Starmer toying with Johnson at PMQ’s? It was like a cat playing with a mouse.
Yet he always let the mouse escape in the end. A cat worth its salt would have killed the mouse and brought it to its masters as a gift.
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Plainly she didn't have the support amongst MPs. For whatever reason they appear to have made the wrong choice again.
RD, my take on it is that had the 1922 committee come up with a system broad enough to give Mordaunt a chance of getting into a run-off against Sunak it would also have put Johnson back in the running. They were very obviously scared stiff of it then going to the membership to choose.
Given that constraint I reckon they made the right choice.
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PMQs is a diverting debate but it isn't a gladiatorial ring. Starmer did about as much it was possible to do in that he did bring forward and persue an issue that lead to the fall of the PM.
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Plainly she didn't have the support amongst MPs. For whatever reason they appear to have made the wrong choice again.
RD, my take on it is that had the 1922 committee come up with a system that gave Mordaunt a chance of getting into a run-off it would also have put Johnson back in the running. They were very obviously scared stiff of it then going to the membership to choose.
Given that constraint I reckon they made the right choice.
We will see but I think Sunak is more suited to the back room of the chancellorship than the front of house role of PM.
I think the real reason Mordaunt has been squashed, particularly by the Daily Mail and journalist Andrew Pierce is that she is too much of a centrist for their liking. Sunak is from the right of the party and a Brexiteer.
I think they knew Mordaunt was likely to win with the membership, so the vote couldn't be allowed to go that far.
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This weeks Cabinet reshuffle incoming at 11.35am apparently.
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It will be xmas before maudant gets in another leadership bid
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I really don't see the substance behind Sunak.
Yes he implemented furlough. That was an excellent policy but it wasn't his idea. It was already being rolled out across Europe. But I'll give him credit for that.
Against that, he was directly responsible for persuading Johnson not to lockdown in Sept 2020. He listened to the very worst arrogant scientific outsiders on the issue in Heneghan and Gupta. He reportedly threatened Johnson that he'd resign if we locked down. That was a catastrophically bad call. It led to the Autumn and Winter 2020 waves getting totally out of control, killing far more people than should have died and meaning we eventually had a 6 month lockdown.
On basic economics, he's regularly spouted absolute claptrap on the subject of the debt. And I don't say this from a political angle. He's just factually wrong when he's said we have to repay Govt debt. It's such a basic error, I genuinely don't believe that an Oxford PPE graduate could make it. Which means he is deliberately lying.
He's got away with those things because the Chancellor is not in the spotlight. No longer. Everything he does will be poured over. I genuinely hope he's up to it because God knows we are in a mess and the country needs strong and visionary leadership. But I'm not confident, given his record.
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Plainly she didn't have the support amongst MPs. For whatever reason they appear to have made the wrong choice again.
RD, my take on it is that had the 1922 committee come up with a system that gave Mordaunt a chance of getting into a run-off it would also have put Johnson back in the running. They were very obviously scared stiff of it then going to the membership to choose.
Given that constraint I reckon they made the right choice.
We will see but I think Sunak is more suited to the back room of the chancellorship than the front of house role of PM.
I think the real reason Mordaunt has been squashed, particularly by the Daily Mail and journalist Andrew Pierce is that she is too much of a centrist for their liking. Sunak is from the right of the party and a Brexiteer.
I think they knew Mordaunt was likely to win with the membership, so the vote couldn't be allowed to go that far.
Sunak is not from the right of the conservatives
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Strange that Political Commentators say that he is from the right and Hunt with a silent C is from the left
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.. He reportedly threatened Johnson that he'd resign if we locked down. That was a catastrophically bad call. It led to the Autumn and Winter 2020 waves getting totally out of control, killing far more people than should have died and meaning we eventually had a 6 month lockdown...
This is obviously an old debate, but worth pointing out there's literally no basis for the above. A September lockdown was never going to suppress COVID in December/January. If nothing else because the alpha variant widely circulating until December.
Of course, Wales did lockdown in Autumn 2020. And saw a very similar trajectory as England.
This is completely off topic for this thread but I think history will judge lockdowns quite harshly.
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First British-Asian PM! Congratulations
3 female PM's
1st British Asian PM
Meanwhile across the opposition benches ????
I wouldnt be gloating about the 3 female PM’s.
1 was awful, 1 was useless & 1 was barking mad.
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Which was which or are you just describing Misstrussed?
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Plainly she didn't have the support amongst MPs. For whatever reason they appear to have made the wrong choice again.
RD, my take on it is that had the 1922 committee come up with a system that gave Mordaunt a chance of getting into a run-off it would also have put Johnson back in the running. They were very obviously scared stiff of it then going to the membership to choose.
Given that constraint I reckon they made the right choice.
We will see but I think Sunak is more suited to the back room of the chancellorship than the front of house role of PM.
I think the real reason Mordaunt has been squashed, particularly by the Daily Mail and journalist Andrew Pierce is that she is too much of a centrist for their liking. Sunak is from the right of the party and a Brexiteer.
I think they knew Mordaunt was likely to win with the membership, so the vote couldn't be allowed to go that far.
Sunak is not from the right of the conservatives
Soon after becoming an MP in 2015, Sunak wrote a report calling for the creation of ‘freeports’ around the UK for the right-wing think tank, Centre for Policy Studies (CPS), which was co-founded by Margaret Thatcher.
Sunak also worked for another right-wing think tank, Policy Exchange – which, like CPS does not declare its donors – before becoming an MP, and has spoken at the Institute of Economic Affairs since becoming chancellor. All three think tanks have been consistently ranked among the least transparent in the UK.
... If Sunak is not considered of the right in the current Conservative parliamentary party, then it can only show how far right the party as a whole has shifted.
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Plainly she didn't have the support amongst MPs. For whatever reason they appear to have made the wrong choice again.
RD, my take on it is that had the 1922 committee come up with a system that gave Mordaunt a chance of getting into a run-off it would also have put Johnson back in the running. They were very obviously scared stiff of it then going to the membership to choose.
Given that constraint I reckon they made the right choice.
We will see but I think Sunak is more suited to the back room of the chancellorship than the front of house role of PM.
I think the real reason Mordaunt has been squashed, particularly by the Daily Mail and journalist Andrew Pierce is that she is too much of a centrist for their liking. Sunak is from the right of the party and a Brexiteer.
I think they knew Mordaunt was likely to win with the membership, so the vote couldn't be allowed to go that far.
Sunak is not from the right of the conservatives
Ok yes he is. Just not from the totally flat earth batshit right.
He would have been way to the right of any Tory PM on the second half of the 20th century, Thatcher included.
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https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1584827186233516033?t=KNdNuSa5vgCnXxFm8ogblA&s=19
Another classic bit of Joe Biden there.
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1. He’s a conservative, he’s not going to work for left wing think tanks is he?
2. In a now deleted tweet of support for Sunak, Tobias Ellwood said “the free market experiment is over”.
3. Truss, Badenoch and Braverman are more to the right than Sunak
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Super rich. Can't see him winning any election.
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.. He reportedly threatened Johnson that he'd resign if we locked down. That was a catastrophically bad call. It led to the Autumn and Winter 2020 waves getting totally out of control, killing far more people than should have died and meaning we eventually had a 6 month lockdown...
This is obviously an old debate, but worth pointing out there's literally no basis for the above. A September lockdown was never going to suppress COVID in December/January. If nothing else because the alpha variant widely circulating until December.
Of course, Wales did lockdown in Autumn 2020. And saw a very similar trajectory as England.
This is completely off topic for this thread but I think history will judge lockdowns quite harshly.
I disagree. A hard lockdown from early October would have transformed the situation. By New Year, we'd have suppressed the wave and we'd have been in with the vaccination programme.
The overarching message from Spring 2020 was that you didn't gain anything from delaying lockdowns. You only delayed the inevitable and when lockdown finally did come, it would be longer, harder and more costly than if you'd done it quickly.
You can just about excuse Governments for not getting it right in March 2020. There's no excuse for getting it wrong in Autumn 2020. And Sunak was the one who insisted on no lockdown then. And he appears to be proud of that stance. Which is...worrying.
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Cruella Braverman back as Home Secretary .
Here comes the union busting and anti protesting mandate .
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1. He’s a conservative, he’s not going to work for left wing think tanks is he?
2. In a now deleted tweet of support for Sunak, Tobias Ellwood said “the free market experiment is over”.
3. Truss, Badenoch and Braverman are more to the right than Sunak
Genghis Khan was further to the right than Mussolini. Didn't stop Mussolini being a fascist.
If your case for Sunak not being on the right is the fact that he's a bit less extreme than three absolute headbangers, it's a flimsy one.
I'll say again. Sunak is much further to the right than any Tory PM of the second half of the 20th century.
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PS.
Elwood would struggle to count to 5 on his fingers. I know that from personal experience with him.
Ellwood was screaming in February that we needed British troops on the ground in Ukraine. I wouldn't trust his judgement in a "Point to Tobias Ellwood" competition.
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"This government will have integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level," says Rishi Sunak, shortly before appointing one of his supporters to a position they resigned from only last week after breaking the ministerial code.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1584939991049781250
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Integrity? From the man who received a fine for breaking lockdown rules. Painting over history methinks
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What's Sunak thinking about bringing back that maniac as Home Sec.
Get ready for plenty of nastiness from her and Austerity from Hunt
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1. He’s a conservative, he’s not going to work for left wing think tanks is he?
2. In a now deleted tweet of support for Sunak, Tobias Ellwood said “the free market experiment is over”.
3. Truss, Badenoch and Braverman are more to the right than Sunak
Genghis Khan was further to the right than Mussolini. Didn't stop Mussolini being a fascist.
If your case for Sunak not being on the right is the fact that he's a bit less extreme than three absolute headbangers, it's a flimsy one.
I'll say again. Sunak is much further to the right than any Tory PM of the second half of the 20th century.
That’s 3 prominent members of that party that he belongs to though? I’m not saying he’s not on the right of the general political spectrum just within that party.
What makes him more right wing than Cameron?
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"This government will have integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level," says Rishi Sunak, shortly before appointing one of his supporters to a position they resigned from only last week after breaking the ministerial code.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1584939991049781250
Suella Braverman did not mistakenly leak a meaningless document. She endlessly consulted a maverick. She deliberately emailed a policy doc not yet agreed to her private email. Then she sent it to John Hayes and someone she thought was his wife. Then lied to PM about when it was sent:
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1584939423703396352
If you look at the full story from Tim Shipman on that link an interesting local connection is that the other person Braverman sent the documents to was an assistant for Andrew Percy, Goole & Isle MP. The assistant told Percy and it was he who then dobbed her in to Truss.
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What's Sunak thinking about bringing back that maniac as Home Sec.
Get ready for plenty of nastiness from her and Austerity from Hunt
So she can put Mick Lynch and Dave Ward on a plane to Rwanda .
If the new laws start getting rolled out for protesting in the street I think Keith had better get off the fence .
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Plainly she didn't have the support amongst MPs. For whatever reason they appear to have made the wrong choice again.
RD, my take on it is that had the 1922 committee come up with a system that gave Mordaunt a chance of getting into a run-off it would also have put Johnson back in the running. They were very obviously scared stiff of it then going to the membership to choose.
Given that constraint I reckon they made the right choice.
We will see but I think Sunak is more suited to the back room of the chancellorship than the front of house role of PM.
I think the real reason Mordaunt has been squashed, particularly by the Daily Mail and journalist Andrew Pierce is that she is too much of a centrist for their liking. Sunak is from the right of the party and a Brexiteer.
I think they knew Mordaunt was likely to win with the membership, so the vote couldn't be allowed to go that far.
Says a lot for the state of our democracy though if a Candidate who was thought likely to win is "prevented" or "persuaded" or " cajoled" or " add your own word here" NOT to !
I can't know whether she would ultimately be better for "the Country***" than Sunak BUT what if she would have been. Who are the losers ?
*** I mention that phrase as it suddenly has leapt back into everybodies vocabulary
Anyway I'm setting off for game now ... so hurl any :turd: :turd: :turd: you want I won't see it :lol:
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Not sure you'd know with your head into GB News tyke
I have my head on this board most nights but I don't support Donny Rovers .
Keep em coming Syd .
:byebye:
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Not sure why people think Sunak is not right-wing? He is a big supporter of tax breaks for millionaires and deregulated low-tax zones aand is connected with at least two right-wing think-tanks (and spoke at a third) connected with Truss' failed experiment. He is as right-wing as you can get economically.
He also supported the Rwanda plan, refused free school meals for disadvantaged children during holidays in lockdown and refused to extend the £20 Universal Credit uplift.
Dont expect him to helping you or Doncaster Rovers anytime soon. Unless you are a multi-millionaire with a portfolio of 'blind trusts' in the Cayman Islands that you refuse to disclose the use of - like he has.
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At least Coffey has landed a job that should appeal to her .
Minister For Food .
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Integrity? From the man who received a fine for breaking lockdown rules. Painting over history methinks
Youthinks incorrectly. The country has moved on.
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Same old, same old. Out of 350+ Tory MPs are there none better than this shower he has put into post?
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Same old, same old. Out of 350+ Tory MPs are there none better than this shower he has put into post?
All part of the deal with boris at the weekend.
I’ll drop out the leadership contest, you give all my old pals good positions & maybe theyl buy me a pint for my trouble.
This will be the integrity that Rishi’s bleating on about
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Integrity? From the man who received a fine for breaking lockdown rules. Painting over history methinks
Youthinks incorrectly. The country has moved on.
Nope. At best for him, it's a very easy shot ready to be lined up at an election. He's doomed.
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This takes the biscuit, the BBC accidentally screened a 'cloud' of words which the public used to describe Prime Minister Rishi Sunak online, but failed to spot it included c*** and t***!
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There's a very simple problem for Sunak
The Tories lost the degree educated urban voters over the past generation. They still have the Home Counties golf club bore set, and they still for some unfathomable reason have a big chunk of the over 65s.
But that's nowhere near enough to win a majority.
Johnson understood that and that's precisely why he reached out to the post-Industrial, relatively low skilled, low education level working class. He played on the split between them and the more prosperous left of centre urbanites.
That's gone now. It needs a showman to get those people to be prepared to vote Tory. Hearing Braverman ranting like an unhinged maniac about the Tofu eating wokerati won't cut it.
And what is Sunak's offering to those people?Yet more grinding Austerity. That ain't going to win them back.
I just don't see how Sunak builds a voting group that gets the Tories anywhere near a majority.
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It’s not simple though, is it, Billy?
Sunak relishes on people like you who ‘don’t see how’.
Starmer hasn’t been able to ‘see how’ for three years.
You (we) need to come up with something different.
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Not sure you'd know with your head into GB News tyke
I have my head on this board most nights but I don't support Donny Rovers .
Keep em coming Syd .
:byebye:
You provide them all yourself tykey I just hold up the mirror
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There's a very simple problem for Sunak
The Tories lost the degree educated urban voters over the past generation. They still have the Home Counties golf club bore set, and they still for some unfathomable reason have a big chunk of the over 65s.
But that's nowhere near enough to win a majority.
Johnson understood that and that's precisely why he reached out to the post-Industrial, relatively low skilled, low education level working class. He played on the split between them and the more prosperous left of centre urbanites.
That's gone now. It needs a showman to get those people to be prepared to vote Tory. Hearing Braverman ranting like an unhinged maniac about the Tofu eating wokerati won't cut it.
And what is Sunak's offering to those people?Yet more grinding Austerity. That ain't going to win them back.
I just don't see how Sunak builds a voting group that gets the Tories anywhere near a majority.
I understand why some vote Labour and I understand why some vote conservative. I used to approach politics like you. But then I became more open-minded and understood that ultimately everybody wants what is best, they just have different ideas on how to achieve that.
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There's a huge difference nc in that conservatives cling to the tried tested and failed economic of trickle down. Take that away and where is the policy framework to provide fairness across the board. One of the other problems has been the culture wars that have persisted, if sunak is true to his word, the 'integrity' word then he will stamp on it if it rears it's head under his stewardship. He is very green, it will be interesting to see who carries the can for the economic failures of the past decade.
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There's a huge difference nc in that conservatives cling to the tried tested and failed economic of trickle down. Take that away and where is the policy framework to provide fairness across the board. One of the other problems has been the culture wars that have persisted, if sunak is true to his word, the 'integrity' word then he will stamp on it if it rears it's head under his stewardship. He is very green, it will be interesting to see who carries the can for the economic failures of the past decade.
Are you defining “trickle-down economics” as anything post 1979?
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.
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There's a very simple problem for Sunak
The Tories lost the degree educated urban voters over the past generation. They still have the Home Counties golf club bore set, and they still for some unfathomable reason have a big chunk of the over 65s.
But that's nowhere near enough to win a majority.
Johnson understood that and that's precisely why he reached out to the post-Industrial, relatively low skilled, low education level working class. He played on the split between them and the more prosperous left of centre urbanites.
That's gone now. It needs a showman to get those people to be prepared to vote Tory. Hearing Braverman ranting like an unhinged maniac about the Tofu eating wokerati won't cut it.
And what is Sunak's offering to those people?Yet more grinding Austerity. That ain't going to win them back.
I just don't see how Sunak builds a voting group that gets the Tories anywhere near a majority.
I understand why some vote Labour and I understand why some vote conservative. I used to approach politics like you. But then I became more open-minded and understood that ultimately everybody wants what is best, they just have different ideas on how to achieve that.
Assuming everyone is in politics to do the very best for the country is a start. I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't believe for one moment that was Johnson's position for example. I think (and there's plenty of evidence to support this) that his overriding aim was to satisfy his own desire for power.
But let's put that aside and assume your take is correct. That doesn't mean that you simply accept that all policies on all sides are equally valid.
Austerity is a classic example. That went against every textbook analysis of what a Government should do for the best interests of the economy. The Tories were told that clearly at the time. They CHOSE to ignore that and throw their lot in with the views of a tiny minority of economists (include one who turned out to have reached his conclusion after wrongly adding up a list of numbers in a spreadsheet).
That policy was massively damaging to our economy and our society. Even if you believe that it was chosen in good faith, that doesn't mean you have a duty to shrug your shoulders and accept it. The right thing to do is to point out that it was a massive, avoidable mistake and try to convince people never to accept that sort of mistake again.
Precisely the same argument applies to Trussonomics. Once again, it went against pretty much all established economic knowledge and was supported by a tiny minority of fringe economists. Even if you believe that Truss honestly felt it was the right thing to do, that doesn't mean you should just accept it. You should fight like bloody hell to persuade people that it is a hugely damaging mistake.
THAT is how politics is supposed to work.
PS. Despite my comments on Johnson, I do believe that the vast majority of politicians on all sides are in the job because they believe that their approach is best for the country. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them all, or just accept their analysis.
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.
And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet
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The Tories have put Sunak in charge because they think he is their best bet of staying in power, keeping their jobs and keeping taxes lower for their tax avoiding backers. But how is he going to do that?
Other than Freeports - which are nothing but tax evasion zones (and who picks up the bill for the missing tax) - what is his plan to help Britain, grow, prosper and be healthier and happier? All he talks of is hard times and further austerity?
Looking at what he has said so far and who he has appointed, Sunak's plan of how he is going to run/ruin Britain is best summed up by this comment in a long piece by Richard Murphy:
'This government exists to deliver division. Only by doing so does it think it has the slightest chance of re-election. As such any opportunity to promote hatred within our society will be both created and exploited by it to the full.'
It's Party before Country again. It always is for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1585154043655102469
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How the UK became 0ne of the poorest countries in Western Europe
Britain chose finance over industry, austerity over investment, and a closed economy over openness to the world.
Vote Tory
https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/?utm_source=feed
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The one thing that can be said for Trussonomics is that it was so patently and disasterously wrong that it had to be abandonded within the space of a few short weeks...
That said though, it was an attempt at generating a boom. Truss was right when she said Sunak is a bean counter who is out of touch because he's so rich. She predicted he would deliver a recession and that is looking highly likely. The only question is how deep.
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How the UK became 0ne of the poorest countries in Western Europe
Britain chose finance over industry, austerity over investment, and a closed economy over openness to the world.
Vote Tory
https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/?utm_source=feed
Good article.
“Today, Britain seems trapped between a left-wing aversion to growth and a right-wing aversion to openness. On the academic left, the U.K. has lately been home to a surging movement called degrowtherism, which asserts that saving the planet requires rich countries to stop seeking growth. On the right, the electorate is dominated by older voters who care more about culture wars than about competitiveness.”
I thought purposefully wanting to leave the single market was crazy.
I think that more investment has been required over the last 10 years in the right areas. But that doesn’t make socialist ideas valid. The history books will tell you that.
Again, look at Ireland’s boom.
It’s not as binary as you guys think.
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.
And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet
I’m going to assume that by trickle down economics that you mean open free market capitalism.
If so please provide evidence that other economic models work better.
If we’re following your trickle down analogy, left wing ideas turn down the water supply in that.
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For me there are a couple of key points to be made about this mess that are hardly ever mentioned.
Sometimes it is said that we are racking up debts like its wartime... Hello! If you hadn't noticed we are at war! Maybe just maybe these debts are acceptable when we are engaged in a de facto war with Russia?
The other is the root of the cost of living crisis is an energy crisis. The word energy hardly crops up in political debate but it is much the biggest driver of the inflation we are experiencing, apart from some food inflation which is probably in part down to the drought summer and again, the war with Russia. Not only because Russia is blockading the country which is a major producer but also because the price of artificial fertiliser has gone through the roof being produced in a process that heavily uses gas.
Maybe, if we facing up to the reality of what's going on here we'd have a better chance of overcoming it?
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Can't argue that cost's due to the was and then energy prices have not affected the economy, the problem began way before though that with having economic rationalists running the country so that it was and still is ill equipped to manage those or any other economic shocks RD.
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Fair enough BST, you’re right it is good to be passionate in what you believe in. I just don’t think that vilifying the other side is conducive to winning people over.
Haven’t followed the news much in recent days, you said Sunak was engaging in culture war stuff?
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How the UK became 0ne of the poorest countries in Western Europe
Britain chose finance over industry, austerity over investment, and a closed economy over openness to the world.
Vote Tory
https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/?utm_source=feed
Good article.
“Today, Britain seems trapped between a left-wing aversion to growth and a right-wing aversion to openness. On the academic left, the U.K. has lately been home to a surging movement called degrowtherism, which asserts that saving the planet requires rich countries to stop seeking growth. On the right, the electorate is dominated by older voters who care more about culture wars than about competitiveness.”
I thought purposefully wanting to leave the single market was crazy.
I think that more investment has been required over the last 10 years in the right areas. But that doesn’t make socialist ideas valid. The history books will tell you that.
Again, look at Ireland’s boom.
It’s not as binary as you guys think.
It would be good to show where there has any of these no-growthers have been in power except for the last 12 years or so.
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I've never said anything about Sunak engaging in Culture War.
He's just re-appointed a Home Secretary though who is a batshit Culture Warrior.
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Anti-growth Left?
Give me strength.
Labour was calling for pro-growth policies throughout the 2010s, a decade when Austerity gave us the worst growth since the Napoleonic Wars.
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I've never said anything about Sunak engaging in Culture War.
He's just re-appointed a Home Secretary though who is a batshit Culture Warrior.
My mistake. Yes she is very strange.
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Anti-growth Left?
Give me strength.
Labour was calling for pro-growth policies throughout the 2010s, a decade when Austerity gave us the worst growth since the Napoleonic Wars.
Look at the general make up of members at labour conferences, and a lot of new MPs in recent years for them.
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Anti-growth Left?
Give me strength.
Labour was calling for pro-growth policies throughout the 2010s, a decade when Austerity gave us the worst growth since the Napoleonic Wars.
Look at the general make up of members at labour conferences, and a lot of new MPs in recent years for them.
I have literally no idea what you are talking about.
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I've never said anything about Sunak engaging in Culture War.
He's just re-appointed a Home Secretary though who is a batshit Culture Warrior.
My mistake. Yes she is very strange.
Not just very strange. Not exactly the sharpest knife in the box either.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bmay/status/1585166867429105664
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I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.
In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?
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I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.
In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?
In my opinion, a world where that situation was engineered, to get rid of Truss and get Sunak in, for which she has now been rewarded, that would be a top question at PMQ’s if I were Starmer
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Yes I was confused by that article.
Accusing the left of being anti growth was palpably wrong, therefore the whole article is compromised.
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Can't argue that cost's due to the war and then energy prices have not affected the economy, the problem began way before though that with having economic rationalists running the country so that it was and still is ill equipped to manage those or any other economic shocks RD.
Prior to the war, there was some inflationary pressure created by the fallout of Covid. Things like a lack of supply of semiconductors from the Far East were creating shortages of things like new cars, which had the knock on effect of pushing the price of second hand cars up. Really though the inflation wasn't dramatic. The debt Covid created though very large was manageable.
What really triggered the inflation in Europe and the west though was Putin. It started a good six months before the invasion. In Sept 21 gas prices began to rise relentlessly. You may recall Kwarteng had to bail out Co2/Fertilizer plants? That was because gas was already unaffordable. Fuel prices at the pump were also rocketing.
Putin was applying pressure to Europe over Nordstream2 and paving the way for invasion. Coincidentally Sept 21 was also the time inflation in Europe started rising significantly and it was being driven by oil and gas prices.
So I maintain, the vast majority of this inflation in the west is being generated by Putin and his economic war on the west.
Look at Switzerland, it currently has much lower inflation than the rest of Europe. Why? Because they have virtually no reliance on gas in their energy mix. It's all nuclear and green energy such as hydro.
High inflation is usually to do with commodities. It was in the 70s when the Arabs punished the west by limiting oil supply, because of our support for Israel.
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I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.
In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?
Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.
Cynical, moi?
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I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.
In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?
Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.
Cynical, moi?
She may well have done. But it doesn't change the fact that she flagrantly broke the Ministerial Code. It's a breach that should require a long period of penance before she was brought back to the Cabinet.
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Yes I was confused by that article.
Accusing the left of being anti growth was palpably wrong, therefore the whole article is compromised.
It's crap journalism.
- Decide you want to do a lazy "one one hand this: on the other hand that," piece
- Find some obscure left-leaning economists who say what you want to point out, even though they have zero influence on left wing parties.
- Ignore the mass of analysis from the vast majority of left-leaning economists who have been screaming for growth policies throughout the last decade, and who have had profound influence on left-leaning parties.
That article isn't worth wiping your arse on.
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I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.
In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?
Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.
Cynical, moi?
She may well have done. But it doesn't change the fact that she flagrantly broke the Ministerial Code. It's a breach that should require a long period of penance before she was brought back to the Cabinet.
At the time there were raised eyebrows, it was a minor transgration...
Steve Baker, who co-led her leadership campaign and is now a Northern Ireland minister, said the use of a personal email had only been “technically” a breach of rules, and that such liaison with other MPs on policy was “perfectly normal”.
One Tory MP said it seemed “very minor” and that most cabinet ministers had been guilty of the same thing.
... Note that she brought the issue to wider attention herself and the document was due to be declassified shortly.
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RD.
SHE said that she raised the issue herself. That's not what Tim Shipman has reported. He said she inadvertently copied in an official on the email that she sent out. He raised the transgression with the Cabinet Office.
If Shipman is to be believed, not only did Braverman break confidentiality rules, she then publicly lied about it AND (and this is the key) she lied to the PM about it.
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I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.
In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?
Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.
Cynical, moi?
She may well have done. But it doesn't change the fact that she flagrantly broke the Ministerial Code. It's a breach that should require a long period of penance before she was brought back to the Cabinet.
At the time there were raised eyebrows, it was a minor transgration...
Steve Baker, who co-led her leadership campaign and is now a Northern Ireland minister, said the use of a personal email had only been “technically” a breach of rules, and that such liaison with other MPs on policy was “perfectly normal”.
One Tory MP said it seemed “very minor” and that most cabinet ministers had been guilty of the same thing.
... Note that she brought the issue to wider attention herself and the document was due to be declassified shortly.
She also apologised for the mistake.
Odd though that when a Labour MP apologies for a mistake it is ok but not when a Tory MP does the same, well on this board anyway.
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https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1582764013456613376?t=zZZESD2u4FpTIp2rUhfYpQ&s=19
Even that chap thought it was minor.
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Is that Cummings the well known arbiter of standards?
Or is it Cummings the svengali to Sunak, diving in to protect his protoge from criticism?
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By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.
Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.
At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")
Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.
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By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.
Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.
At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")
Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.
Stuff like this is just petty and boring. PMQs should be an intellectual debate on ideas, not nonsense like this.
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By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.
Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.
At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")
Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.
But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .
Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .
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BST's simplistic world of politics boils down to the Labour Party doing no wrong, and the Tory Party doing no right.
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By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.
Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.
At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")
Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.
But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .
Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .
No Tyke.
They didn't.
Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.
You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.
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By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.
Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.
At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")
Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.
But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .
Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .
No Tyke.
They didn't.
Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.
You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.
A Labour MP told Sunak at PMQ's a nurse would have to work 20 thousand years to earn his wealth .
What do you think made him ask that question ?
Clearly it's aimed at Sunak's lack of understanding of real life on a modest income .
You could argue Starmer got the same back from Sunak given a leafy North London address doesn't come cheap .
Ever thought the pair of em are out of touch ?
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I suppose there will be plenty of Labour voters who will have to work for thousands of years to be a penny behind Starmer too.
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By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.
Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.
At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: &quot;member of the liberal elite&quot;)
Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.
But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .
Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .
No Tyke.
They didn't.
Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.
You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.
A Labour MP told Sunak at PMQ's a nurse would have to work 20 thousand years to earn his wealth .
What do you think made him ask that question ?
Clearly it's aimed at Sunak's lack of understanding of real life on a modest income .
You could argue Starmer got the same back from Sunak given a leafy North London address doesn't come cheap .
Ever thought the pair of em are out of touch ?
Are you really going to die on this hill?
Equating the son of a disabled nurse and a toolmaker who worked his way up his chosen profession: and a man who went to a £46k/year public school then married the heiress of one of the richest men in India?
Are you really going down that road?
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By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.
Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.
At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: &quot;member of the liberal elite&quot;)
Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.
But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .
Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .
No Tyke.
They didn't.
Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.
You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.
A Labour MP told Sunak at PMQ's a nurse would have to work 20 thousand years to earn his wealth .
What do you think made him ask that question ?
Clearly it's aimed at Sunak's lack of understanding of real life on a modest income .
You could argue Starmer got the same back from Sunak given a leafy North London address doesn't come cheap .
Ever thought the pair of em are out of touch ?
Are you really going to die on this hill?
Equating the son of a disabled nurse and a toolmaker who worked his way up his chosen profession: and a man who went to a £46k/year public school then married the heiress of one of the richest men in India?
Are you really going down that road?
Didn't Sunak's parents run a chemist shop Billy ?
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Tyke.
His father is a GP. His mother owns a pharmacy. Between them they could afford to send Sunak to one of the most expensive private schools in the world.
Sunak ran a hedge fund when he graduated. Starmer defended people who'd been unfairly convicted.
You REALLY going to carry on with this equivalence nonsense?
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Big thumbs up to Sunak in this one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63402777
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Big thumbs up to Sunak in this one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63402777
Refused to commit to the Triple Lock though
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Tyke.
His father is a GP. His mother owns a pharmacy. Between them they could afford to send Sunak to one of the most expensive private schools in the world.
Sunak ran a hedge fund when he graduated. Starmer defended people who'd been unfairly convicted.
You REALLY going to carry on with this equivalence nonsense?
They're actually proof of what most conservatives believe in. People who worked hard to earn what they have.
Yes he's lucky that he's married in to wealth, but he's also helped out in curry restaurants to earn money etc when he was younger. His wealth is not his fault and I'd rather judge him for what he does.
It's being critical of those who are successful that holds back parts of our society at times.
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Big thumbs up to Sunak in this one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63402777
Hear, hear.
Fracking is totally inappropriate for our small, densely populated island and it's yields would have made next to zero impact on wholesale gas prices. Certainly not worth the potential environmental consequences.
Was very pleased to discover this ban had been reinforced and given Labour are wholly against it too this probably (hopefully) is the death knell for Fracking in this country.
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Tyke.
His father is a GP. His mother owns a pharmacy. Between them they could afford to send Sunak to one of the most expensive private schools in the world.
Sunak ran a hedge fund when he graduated. Starmer defended people who'd been unfairly convicted.
You REALLY going to carry on with this equivalence nonsense?
They're actually proof of what most conservatives believe in. People who worked hard to earn what they have.
Yes he's lucky that he's married in to wealth, but he's also helped out in curry restaurants to earn money etc when he was younger. His wealth is not his fault and I'd rather judge him for what he does.
It's being critical of those who are successful that holds back parts of our society at times.
Known as the green eyed monster BFYP.
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Two points BFYP
1) This idea that the Tories are the guardians of aspiration and Labour is all for keeping the masses down is the laziest political lie in the country.
The clearest route to achievement is education.
Labour has poured money into the state school system whenever it has been in power. Labour oversaw two of the three biggest expansions in the University sector, offering degree level education to millions of working class kids for the first time.
Aspiration is something that everyone should support. And we should make sure that council estate kids have the same opportunity to progress as Winchester College pupils.
2) I have not had a go at Sunak for having a very comfortable background or for marrying into wealth. I WILL have a go at him if, having had that background, he tries to play Culture War politics by branding someone who had none of this advantages as being from The Elite.
That is pathetic, content-free, divisive politics.
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.
And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet
I’m going to assume that by trickle down economics that you mean open free market capitalism.
If so please provide evidence that other economic models work better.
If we’re following your trickle down analogy, left wing ideas turn down the water supply in that.
trickle down economics is giving money to the extremely wealthy and expecting that they will make the best use of that money and it will pass down, trickle down, to the ordinary person. This is a falacy and nothing whatsoever to do with economics - it's about feathering your mates beds, simple.
If you want to give water to people, you give water to people, not to their suppliers.
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For me there are a couple of key points to be made about this mess that are hardly ever mentioned.
Sometimes it is said that we are racking up debts like its wartime... Hello! If you hadn't noticed we are at war! Maybe just maybe these debts are acceptable when we are engaged in a de facto war with Russia?
The other is the root of the cost of living crisis is an energy crisis. The word energy hardly crops up in political debate but it is much the biggest driver of the inflation we are experiencing, apart from some food inflation which is probably in part down to the drought summer and again, the war with Russia. Not only because Russia is blockading the country which is a major producer but also because the price of artificial fertiliser has gone through the roof being produced in a process that heavily uses gas.
Maybe, if we facing up to the reality of what's going on here we'd have a better chance of overcoming it?
Face up to the geo political war the US especially, and the UK elite, are having with Russia. Sure, and also see why that is happening. It's not a war for me, I don't benefit and neither do you.
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I suppose there will be plenty of Labour voters who will have to work for thousands of years to be a penny behind Starmer too.
The difference between both the wealth and out of touchness of Sunak is incomparable to that with Starmer. You are talking absolute nonsense.
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I suppose there will be plenty of Labour voters who will have to work for thousands of years to be a penny behind Starmer too.
The difference between both the wealth and out of touchness of Sunak is incomparable to that with Starmer. You are talking absolute nonsense.
Irrespective of that point BRR, Starmer is hardly a pauper is he.
Sunak married well and some people seem to have a problem with that.
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I suppose there will be plenty of Labour voters who will have to work for thousands of years to be a penny behind Starmer too.
The difference between both the wealth and out of touchness of Sunak is incomparable to that with Starmer. You are talking absolute nonsense.
Irrespective of that point BRR, Starmer is hardly a pauper is he.
Sunak married well and some people seem to have a problem with that.
"Married well" - an interesting take :lol:
No, Starmer is not a pauper, and nowhere near my chosen idea; of a leader, but he does have heaps more experience of the real world than Sunak. And now? Sunak has no idea what ordinary people experience, never mind poor people. I don't think you can nearly say the same for Starmer.
And the problem is not at all that Sunak lives in another universe, but that he is implementing policies that benefit the very wealthy when people are hungry and cold. He can do this precisely because he is soooooo out of touch.
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I'm wondering who these "some people" are that Hound seems to have a problem with. I haven't seen any in here.
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I suppose there will be plenty of Labour voters who will have to work for thousands of years to be a penny behind Starmer too.
The difference between both the wealth and out of touchness of Sunak is incomparable to that with Starmer. You are talking absolute nonsense.
Irrespective of that point BRR, Starmer is hardly a pauper is he.
Sunak married well and some people seem to have a problem with that.
"Married well" - an interesting take :lol:
No, Starmer is not a pauper, and nowhere near my chosen idea; of a leader, but he does have heaps more experience of the real world than Sunak. And now? Sunak has no idea what ordinary people experience, never mind poor people. I don't think you can nearly say the same for Starmer.
And the problem is not at all that Sunak lives in another universe, but that he is implementing policies that benefit the very wealthy when people are hungry and cold. He can do this precisely because he is soooooo out of touch.
We are told that Sunak came from a reasonably wealthy background but his parents could hardly be classed as seriously well off.
Yes he went off to university and has a brain that helped him progress his future.
I wonder whether people would have such a big problem with him had he not married the billionaire heiress. Already some people are pulling him down without giving him an opportunity to prove himself.
Give the bloke a chance and judge him in a years time, not after a couple of days n the job.
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In the end society needs poor people. It cannot function without poor people. Someone needs to do those jobs we would rather not do. Someone needs to empty the bins. Someone needs to do the cleaning. Someone needs to deal with refuse. In pastimes slavery was just the natural state of things, society needed a workforce to do the grim work. That need has not gone away.
If a society can't meet the needs of the less fortunate, then it will begin to collapse.
Slavery is not a satisfactory state of affairs. Serfdom is not a satisfactory state of affairs.
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For me there are a couple of key points to be made about this mess that are hardly ever mentioned.
Sometimes it is said that we are racking up debts like its wartime... Hello! If you hadn't noticed we are at war! Maybe just maybe these debts are acceptable when we are engaged in a de facto war with Russia?
The other is the root of the cost of living crisis is an energy crisis. The word energy hardly crops up in political debate but it is much the biggest driver of the inflation we are experiencing, apart from some food inflation which is probably in part down to the drought summer and again, the war with Russia. Not only because Russia is blockading the country which is a major producer but also because the price of artificial fertiliser has gone through the roof being produced in a process that heavily uses gas.
Maybe, if we facing up to the reality of what's going on here we'd have a better chance of overcoming it?
Face up to the geo political war the US especially, and the UK elite, are having with Russia. Sure, and also see why that is happening. It's not a war for me, I don't benefit and neither do you.
I think the war against Russia is righteous. Putin is just another autocrat. Just another dictator. We can NEVER submit to such people.
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In the end society needs poor people. It cannot function without poor people. Someone needs to do those jobs we would rather not do. Someone needs to empty the bins. Someone needs to do the cleaning. Someone needs to deal with refuse. In pastimes slavery was just the natural state of things, society needed a workforce to do the grim work. That need has not gone away.
If a society can't meet the needs of the less fortunate, then it will begin to collapse.
Slavery is not a satisfactory state of affairs. Serfdom is not a satisfactory state of affairs.
Bang on. And that's the failure of the past 45 years under both main parties.
The amount of wealth going to the richest declined for 35 years after WWII. Since the late 1970s, it has remorselessly risen. People at the bottom have to work harder for a smaller and smaller slice of the pie.
That has to change at some point.
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For me there are a couple of key points to be made about this mess that are hardly ever mentioned.
Sometimes it is said that we are racking up debts like its wartime... Hello! If you hadn't noticed we are at war! Maybe just maybe these debts are acceptable when we are engaged in a de facto war with Russia?
The other is the root of the cost of living crisis is an energy crisis. The word energy hardly crops up in political debate but it is much the biggest driver of the inflation we are experiencing, apart from some food inflation which is probably in part down to the drought summer and again, the war with Russia. Not only because Russia is blockading the country which is a major producer but also because the price of artificial fertiliser has gone through the roof being produced in a process that heavily uses gas.
Maybe, if we facing up to the reality of what's going on here we'd have a better chance of overcoming it?
Face up to the geo political war the US especially, and the UK elite, are having with Russia. Sure, and also see why that is happening. It's not a war for me, I don't benefit and neither do you.
I think the war against Russia is righteous. Putin is just another autocrat. Just another dictator. We can NEVER submit to such people.
Bang on 2.
You never ever succeed by appeasing a violent dictator. You take a stand against them, or eventually they swallow you up. Anyone who doesn't get this doesn't know anything of history.
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Freedom is at the very heart of British society. Since 1066 and before It has been the greatest driving force in human history. If we ever, ever forget this then we are truly lost.
Spitfires, Lancasters and Vulacan bombers defend our values. This is what we stand for. This is what we stand for.
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In the end society needs poor people. It cannot function without poor people. Someone needs to do those jobs we would rather not do. Someone needs to empty the bins. Someone needs to do the cleaning. Someone needs to deal with refuse. In pastimes slavery was just the natural state of things, society needed a workforce to do the grim work. That need has not gone away.
If a society can't meet the needs of the less fortunate, then it will begin to collapse.
Slavery is not a satisfactory state of affairs. Serfdom is not a satisfactory state of affairs.
No it doesn't. It requires people to do those jobs - but it doesn't require them to be badly paid for doing them.
The biggest problem in society is the massive inequality of wealth in this country. A very few people own the majority of the wealth.
Under 12 years of Tory government this has got worse. This small group has got far richer - and in proportion to them - the rest of us have got poorer. This has been a deliberate policy and is what drove austerity and Brexit - to make Britain a deregulated tax haven with the minimum of public services and the maximum amount of private companies running them for the benefit of their shareholders.
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Hound I think you’re right about Sunak. It’s more about his wife and her wealth than him. From what I’ve read his parents worked hard to put him through a good education which he has taken advantage of
He could solve world peace and some on here would still slag him off because of his politics
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Hound I think you’re right about Sunak. It’s more about his wife and her wealth than him. From what I’ve read his parents worked hard to put him through a good education which he has taken advantage of
He could solve world peace and some on here would still slag him off because of his politics
Bang on.
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.
And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet
I’m going to assume that by trickle down economics that you mean open free market capitalism.
If so please provide evidence that other economic models work better.
If we’re following your trickle down analogy, left wing ideas turn down the water supply in that.
trickle down economics is giving money to the extremely wealthy and expecting that they will make the best use of that money and it will pass down, trickle down, to the ordinary person. This is a falacy and nothing whatsoever to do with economics - it's about feathering your mates beds, simple.
If you want to give water to people, you give water to people, not to their suppliers.
What do you mean by “giving money to the extremely wealthy”?
The same economics that benefit the wealthy also benefit the ordinary person who may want to set up a business, employ people and contribute to their local economy.
You could say that that generates water within the system, like a well.
The top 10% of earners pay 60% of income tax. I’ve said this before, poor people aren’t poor because rich people are rich. You have to generate wealth through investment. How is investment attracted?
But then it does come down to the government to invest in the country to generate growth. Got to spend money to make money and all that.
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.
And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet
I’m going to assume that by trickle down economics that you mean open free market capitalism.
If so please provide evidence that other economic models work better.
If we’re following your trickle down analogy, left wing ideas turn down the water supply in that.
trickle down economics is giving money to the extremely wealthy and expecting that they will make the best use of that money and it will pass down, trickle down, to the ordinary person. This is a falacy and nothing whatsoever to do with economics - it's about feathering your mates beds, simple.
If you want to give water to people, you give water to people, not to their suppliers.
What do you mean by “giving money to the extremely wealthy”?
The same economics that benefit the wealthy also benefit the ordinary person who may want to set up a business, employ people and contribute to their local economy.
You could say that that generates water within the system, like a well.
The top 10% of earners pay 60% of income tax. I’ve said this before, poor people aren’t poor because rich people are rich. You have to generate wealth through investment. How is investment attracted?
But then it does come down to the government to invest in the country to generate growth. Got to spend money to make money and all that.
Why is it when people on the right discuss who pays tax, they only mention income tax.
Fact: The poorest 20% of the population pay a bigger proportion of their income in tax (all taxes) than do the richest 20%
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Got to look after your mates....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/charity-founded-by-jeremy-hunt-paid-66-of-income-to-chief-executive/ar-AA13onjD?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d2d9c5401c464809a3a8ecf342136aa6
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Does anyone else think Sunak that he is made for being the new owner here, the wealth would help, and for me he could do what he wanted,
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Over in the US they can’t resist stoking division.
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1585240576537944065?s=46&t=Ygb8lh_HPBnxF-1pRggZqA
Trying to make out there’s a backlash over Sunak’s race. Sad.
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If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.
You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.
And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet
I’m going to assume that by trickle down economics that you mean open free market capitalism.
If so please provide evidence that other economic models work better.
If we’re following your trickle down analogy, left wing ideas turn down the water supply in that.
trickle down economics is giving money to the extremely wealthy and expecting that they will make the best use of that money and it will pass down, trickle down, to the ordinary person. This is a falacy and nothing whatsoever to do with economics - it's about feathering your mates beds, simple.
If you want to give water to people, you give water to people, not to their suppliers.
What do you mean by “giving money to the extremely wealthy”?
The same economics that benefit the wealthy also benefit the ordinary person who may want to set up a business, employ people and contribute to their local economy.
You could say that that generates water within the system, like a well.
The top 10% of earners pay 60% of income tax. I’ve said this before, poor people aren’t poor because rich people are rich. You have to generate wealth through investment. How is investment attracted?
But then it does come down to the government to invest in the country to generate growth. Got to spend money to make money and all that.
Why is it when people on the right discuss who pays tax, they only mention income tax.
Fact: The poorest 20% of the population pay a bigger proportion of their income in tax (all taxes) than do the richest 20%
Always thought that a Purchase Tax on everything would be fairer all round ... like VAT ... if its say 20% on Yachts and someone pays 5 million quid for one that will bag some "Tax" for the Treasury
If people buy a £200,000 car then they hopefully pay the Tax on.that and pro rata a 40 grand kia would add 8k for the "so called" poorer person
Nobody pays on certain foods , food groups.
Or have I just described VAT 2
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https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1582764013456613376?t=zZZESD2u4FpTIp2rUhfYpQ&s=19
Even that chap thought it was minor.
By the way. It's not just that Braverman used an insecure mail system to send secure documents. (Although Cummings WOULD say that's inconsequential, because he did it for years when in Govt, because he always worked on the principle that the rules didn't apply to him.)
It's the fact that Braverman sent confidential documents to people who should not have received them. And when questioned about it, reportedly she lied to the PM.
This story isn't going away. Starmer asked the key question yesterday at PMQs and Sunak ignored it.
The Cabinet Secretary is tasked with enforcing the rules and informing the PM if they have been broken. He advised that Braverman should be sacked last week. What was his opinion on her reinstatement?
As I say, Sunak flat refused to answer that question, which speaks volumes.
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We did learn instead though about the Furlough scheme , the War raging in Europe , the 37 billion bale out of the needy people and the fact Southampton and Portsmouth fans didn't get on in his alternate answer
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And Johnson Mk2.0 sent the troops out this morning to defend his decision, 2 of his best Zahawi and not so Cleverley
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I'm wondering who these "some people" are that Hound seems to have a problem with. I haven't seen any in here.
I’m wondering why you appear to have an unhealthy obsession with those you have chosen to, ahem, ignore.
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And Johnson Mk2.0 sent the troops out this morning to defend his decision, 2 of his best Zahawi and not so Cleverley
.... to tell people he had changed , and all would be different " this time," as he would put the Country first and knuckle down to the job of PM and it seems "all that entailed".
Surely the 57% that did not Vote for the Tory Party in 2019 wouldn't think , " you know what , he might have learned some hard lessons , so yeah go on I'll give him another crack"
( Yes I know the Electorate didn't have a vote this time round , just Tory MPs)
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We did learn instead though about the Furlough scheme , the War raging in Europe , the 37 billion bale out of the needy people and the fact Southampton and Portsmouth fans didn't get on in his alternate answer
That's the problem with PMQs.
It started as a way of Opposition genuinely being able to hold Govt to account. Because we've become a society that doesn't treat politics seriously, it's become light entertainment. Who can come up with the wittiest put down.
I'd thought Sunak might have a bit more substance than other recent PMs, but yesterday makes it look like he's a Johnson MK2. Whatever he was asked, he ignored and gave a scripted response that avoided the question:
Q: Do you still agree that you were right to take money away from deprived inner city areas and give it to Tonbridge?
A: You live in Islington and you've no idea about the poor.
Q. Did you ask the Cabinet Secretary for his opinion on re-installing Braverman?
A. Braverman is getting on with reducing crime which the Labour party opposes.
Apparently the Tories are chuffed to bits with Sunak's performance. Which says everything about their attitude.
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If it is down to witty put-downs then Starmer ought to get a better scriptwriter and get lessons on delivery. He must be the most witless leader of any political party EVER! His delivery would spoil a good put-down even if he ever presented one.
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Very good contribution BB. I'm sure you're very proud of that addition.
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Why Thanks BST!
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Oh Rishi, what have you done.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2o3BuKPniE
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I agree, PMQ is mental. It's totally scripted wth a bit of ad libbing. The BBC, if they were really about news, woud be headlining how eg Sunak failed to answer the questions, but no, just like every other mainstream propaganda service, they focus on the witty replies.
Politics is not about content, it's about the witty quotes, the occasional scandal, confidence of whoever in whatever, drama, pap, the doing down of anyone who challenges the establishment, and thats pretty much all the news ever covers. And then sadly, this is what people buy, including many of the comments here.
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If it is down to witty put-downs then Starmer ought to get a better scriptwriter and get lessons on delivery. He must be the most witless leader of any political party EVER! His delivery would spoil a good put-down even if he ever presented one.
Liz Truss slipped from your mind so quickly?
The pork markets speech?
The cheese imports disgrace?
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Oh Rishi, what have you done.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2o3BuKPniE
Bloody hell, Bananarama have let themselves go a bit.
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If it is down to witty put-downs then Starmer ought to get a better scriptwriter and get lessons on delivery. He must be the most witless leader of any political party EVER! His delivery would spoil a good put-down even if he ever presented one.
Liz Truss slipped from your mind so quickly?
The pork markets speech?
The cheese imports disgrace?
I did say witless leader of any political party EVER. I'm afraid your timing is as poor as Keir Starmer's.
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Oh Rishi, what have you done.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2o3BuKPniE
Bloody hell, Bananarama have let themselves go a bit.
Have you nothing intelligent to say about the issue BB?
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I thought I'd let one of the Bananarama girls go first.
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We did learn instead though about the Furlough scheme , the War raging in Europe , the 37 billion bale out of the needy people and the fact Southampton and Portsmouth fans didn't get on in his alternate answer
That's the problem with PMQs.
It started as a way of Opposition genuinely being able to hold Govt to account. Because we've become a society that doesn't treat politics seriously, it's become light entertainment. Who can come up with the wittiest put down.
I'd thought Sunak might have a bit more substance than other recent PMs, but yesterday makes it look like he's a Johnson MK2. Whatever he was asked, he ignored and gave a scripted response that avoided the question:
Q: Do you still agree that you were right to take money away from deprived inner city areas and give it to Tonbridge?
A: You live in Islington and you've no idea about the poor.
Q. Did you ask the Cabinet Secretary for his opinion on re-installing Braverman?
A. Braverman is getting on with reducing crime which the Labour party opposes.
Apparently the Tories are chuffed to bits with Sunak's performance. Which says everything about their attitude.
A little bit liberal there with the truth of the exchange. This was the question asked....
"Why doesn't he put his money where his mouth is?" Starmer asks.
Soundbites from who? Of course you'll be equally critical of Starmer for that i am sure.
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We did learn instead though about the Furlough scheme , the War raging in Europe , the 37 billion bale out of the needy people and the fact Southampton and Portsmouth fans didn't get on in his alternate answer
That's the problem with PMQs.
It started as a way of Opposition genuinely being able to hold Govt to account. Because we've become a society that doesn't treat politics seriously, it's become light entertainment. Who can come up with the wittiest put down.
I'd thought Sunak might have a bit more substance than other recent PMs, but yesterday makes it look like he's a Johnson MK2. Whatever he was asked, he ignored and gave a scripted response that avoided the question:
Q: Do you still agree that you were right to take money away from deprived inner city areas and give it to Tonbridge?
A: You live in Islington and you've no idea about the poor.
Q. Did you ask the Cabinet Secretary for his opinion on re-installing Braverman?
A. Braverman is getting on with reducing crime which the Labour party opposes.
Apparently the Tories are chuffed to bits with Sunak's performance. Which says everything about their attitude.
A little bit liberal there with the truth of the exchange. This was the question asked....
"Why doesn't he put his money where his mouth is?" Starmer asks.
Soundbites from who? Of course you'll be equally critical of Starmer for that i am sure.
Another untrue quote then.
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Rishi is in post to save the Tories from electoral disaster not just defeat. Stopping Tories having less seats than the Lib Dems.
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BFYP.
Do you agree with the central point of my post?
Starmer asked very specific questions about the PM's policies and judgement.
Sunak totally ignored them and made political points total unrelated to the questions.
Agreed?
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I'm wondering who these "some people" are that Hound seems to have a problem with. I haven't seen any in here.
I’m wondering why you appear to have an unhealthy obsession with those you have chosen to, ahem, ignore.
Belton, just to be right about this, after getting totally brassed off with him criticising almost everything I wrote, for the benefit of both him and myself, I asked him to block my posts.
Thankfully he did.
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looking a distinct possibility that sunny has broken all records and misled parliament first time out as PM at pmqs
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The scale of the economic disaster that we've been through since Austerity is quite frightening.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DomWh1te/status/1584854310696865792
We are producing 14% less stuff every year than we would have done if we'd got back to the post-War trend after the GFC.
That's about £300bn. Every year. Lost. It's almost beyond belief.
Enough to build 600 infirmaries. Every year
Enough to build 3 HS2s. Every year.
Enough to give every man woman and child in the country £5000. Every year.
And look very carefully at that graph. By 2010 we WERE just starting to accelerate back from the depths of the GFC. Then Austerity throttled that recovery and we are now where we are.
The loss is so enormous that I understand most people being in denial about it. But it's true.
Truss was absolutely right that we desperately need higher growth. She was just wrong in where the blame was and how to fix it. Sunak isn't even thinking about growth.
We need a new approach that gives us sustainable growth. But it'll take a generation at best to put right this catastrophe.
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Rishi had a poor PMQT, trying to copy Boris in avoiding questions from Starmer and trying to score political points. Don't see Rishi lasting too long as PM.
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porkies by omission
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Porkies by permission (of Mr Speaker)
Seriously I think Westminster needs total reform
Out would go (in no particular order) much of the tradition.
The building ... Get one fit for the 21st Century
Archaic practices and set pieces like PMQs
Maybe House of Lords
FPTP voting system
------------+++++++++++---------------
Although they vastly overspent Holyrood is the type of modern building we should aspire to with most of the pomp gone.
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I thought I'd let one of the Bananarama girls go first.
BB, you can at time post intelligent arguments that are worthy of listening to and discussing; but when you post stupidity it makes you look, well........ stupid - which I'm sure you're not.
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I was responding to a link using Emily Thornberry in an argument against someone resigning and then being reinstated.
THAT is proper stupidity, no matter what side of the argument you're on.
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I was responding to a link using Emily Thornberry in an argument against someone resigning and then being reinstated.
THAT is proper stupidity, no matter what side of the argument you're on.
Emily Thornberry? What are you on about?
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She's the hypocritical chunky one on the left nodding like a Churchill dog.
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We might get a GE before Christmas. Here's how. Rishi/Hunt bring in cuts to services to the poorest in the UK, particularly in the North! The Red Wall Tories can't stomach this, so with the opposition vote down the Fisical Autumn statement, this forces Rishi to call a GE. Plus there could also be Red Wall Tories defecting to Labour to reduce the Govt's majority. Keir has said he is in talks with some Tories who are considering jumping ship, to save their jobs.
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Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.
They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.
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We might get a GE before Christmas. Here's how. Rishi/Hunt bring in cuts to services to the poorest in the UK, particularly in the North! The Red Wall Tories can't stomach this, so with the opposition vote down the Fisical Autumn statement, this forces Rishi to call a GE. Plus there could also be Red Wall Tories defecting to Labour to reduce the Govt's majority. Keir has said he is in talks with some Tories who are considering jumping ship, to save their jobs.
You're dreaming, Les. No way will the Tories allow a GE before 2024. They'd get slaughtered, and they know it.
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She's the hypocritical chunky one on the left nodding like a Churchill dog.
And?
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Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.
They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.
You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .
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She's the hypocritical chunky one on the left nodding like a Churchill dog.
And?
I realize you like to have the last word but I do wish you weren't so literal.
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She's the hypocritical chunky one on the left nodding like a Churchill dog.
And?
I realize you like to have the last word but I do wish you weren't so literal.
And I wish you could construct a sensible argument on the subject.
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Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.
They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.
You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .
Different time Tyke. Have you been looking at the positions of the two parties in the polls?
And yes, before you come back, politics IS a grubby business. There's this complicating factor that the Left have never quite got. You have to win before you can have any influence.
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She&#039;s the hypocritical chunky one on the left nodding like a Churchill dog.
And?
I realize you like to have the last word but I do wish you weren't so literal.
And I wish you could construct a sensible argument on the subject.
There is nothing sensible about hypocrisy. To show an example of it as you did is absolutely not a way of constructing a sensible argument.
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Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.
They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.
You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .
Good point Tyke.
Keir is a pragmatist not an ideologist like Corbourn. I'm sure he will accept into his ranks red Tories who cannot stand Rishi taking the Tory party further Right and cutting benefits and services to their constituents, especially but not limited to the North.
If Rishi loses the vote over the Fisical Autumn Statement, he has no option than call a GE, a defeat of a Finance Bill is the same as a vote of No Confidence in the Govt.
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Members of the ERG group could also be a problem for Rishi. They might argue that Rishi's policies are not in line with their extreme views and would vote against his Fiscal Autumn Statement. This group plus the Red Tories could bring down Rishi's Govt and trigger a GE.
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Members of the ERG group could also be a problem for Rishi. They might argue that Rishi's policies are not in line with their extreme views and would vote against his Fiscal Autumn Statement. This group plus the Red Tories could bring down Rishi's Govt and trigger a GE.
Rees Mogg's EU Withdrawal Act could also be a major factor in the health of the Tory Party .
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Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.
They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.
You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .
Different time Tyke. Have you been looking at the positions of the two parties in the polls?
And yes, before you come back, politics IS a grubby business. There's this complicating factor that the Left have never quite got. You have to win before you can have any influence.
So we've gone from no way on earth welcomed in to the Labour Party to Different Time when one did cross the house .
So basically if it suits Labour politically to do so they would but not if they are ahead in the polls and a government on the brink .
Or to put it another way it doesn't matter that the Labour Party disagree with almost everything with the Red Tories but if the polls start narrowing they would .
Not much better than the other lot really are you ?
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I look forward to you announcing the perfect party tyke with a membership of 1
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Attack the poster, not the subject then?
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Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.
They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.
You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .
Different time Tyke. Have you been looking at the positions of the two parties in the polls?
And yes, before you come back, politics IS a grubby business. There's this complicating factor that the Left have never quite got. You have to win before you can have any influence.
So we've gone from no way on earth welcomed in to the Labour Party to Different Time when one did cross the house .
So basically if it suits Labour politically to do so they would but not if they are ahead in the polls and a government on the brink .
Or to put it another way it doesn't matter that the Labour Party disagree with almost everything with the Red Tories but if the polls start narrowing they would .
Not much better than the other lot really are you ?
Do I need to explain? Really?
Ok.
Labour needs to win the Red Wall seats back if they are going to win a majority.
In January, Labour had been behind in the polls throughout 2021. Then partygate broke. They had Johnson on the back foot.
Having a Red Wall Tory cross the House emphasised the disgust that so many people had for Johnson.
Did I like that? No, of course not. I think the Red Wall Tories are a bunch of amoral chancers. I'd prefer for every Red Wall Tory to be smashed in an election and crawl back to where er they came from in 2019.
But like I say, politics is not a perfect application of absolute principles. Politics is pointless if you don't win. That's the main difference between you and me. You think stick absolutely to your principles is the most important thing. Even if it gives a free pass to people who REALLY aren't on your side.
Now of course, things have changed. Labour is 25% ahead in the polls. There is nothing to be gained for Labour now by using a Red Wall Tory chancer who wanted to cross the House to help his career.
I honestly can't believe you really needed that spelling out.
But you got a like from Hound, so that's nice for you.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
-
Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.
They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.
You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .
Different time Tyke. Have you been looking at the positions of the two parties in the polls?
And yes, before you come back, politics IS a grubby business. There's this complicating factor that the Left have never quite got. You have to win before you can have any influence.
So we've gone from no way on earth welcomed in to the Labour Party to Different Time when one did cross the house .
So basically if it suits Labour politically to do so they would but not if they are ahead in the polls and a government on the brink .
Or to put it another way it doesn't matter that the Labour Party disagree with almost everything with the Red Tories but if the polls start narrowing they would .
Not much better than the other lot really are you ?
Do I need to explain? Really?
Ok.
Labour needs to win the Red Wall seats back if they are going to win a majority.
In January, Labour had been behind in the polls throughout 2021. Then partygate broke. They had Johnson on the back foot.
Having a Red Wall Tory cross the House emphasised the disgust that so many people had for Johnson.
Did I like that? No, of course not. I think the Red Wall Tories are a bunch of amoral chancers. I'd prefer for every Red Wall Tory to be smashed in an election and crawl back to where er they came from in 2019.
But like I say, politics is not a perfect application of absolute principles. Politics is pointless if you don't win. That's the main difference between you and me. You think stick absolutely to your principles is the most important thing. Even if it gives a free pass to people who REALLY aren't on your side.
Now of course, things have changed. Labour is 25% ahead in the polls. There is nothing to be gained for Labour now by using a Red Wall Tory chancer who wanted to cross the House to help his career.
I honestly can't believe you really needed that spelling out.
But you got a like from Hound, so that's nice for you.
If there is no principle in the attainment of power then there is no truth .
-
You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.
-
You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.
You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .
-
Like brexit then tyke?
-
You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.
You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .
I don't forget mine either tyke and spend a lot of my free time serving my community.
This evening we're putting on a free Halloween disco for local kids. I'm
cooking and serving the free food.
I deliver free food every Thursday to those struggling to manage.
Next week we're doing a free firework display and loads of entertainment for the kids.
I'll be supervising the bouncy castles and craft stall.
Early December we're putting on a free Christmas lunch for local pensioners.
Me and MrsT are buying all the free quality raffle prizes.
That's just some of the things we do, among many others throughout the year.
We do this, in part, so we can ask people to continue to support their local LABOUR Parish Council and vote Labour when the time comes.
-
A big story in the Mail tonight. Prior to her becoming PM, Liz Truss' phone was hacked by Russia. This was covered up by Johnson and Case to avoid it damaging Truss' leadership bid.
Case remains the Cabinet Secretary.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
-
You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.
You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .
I don't forget mine either tyke and spend a lot of my free time serving my community.
This evening we're putting on a free Halloween disco for local kids. I'm
cooking and serving the free food.
I deliver free food every Thursday to those struggling to manage.
Next week we're doing a free firework display and loads of entertainment for the kids.
I'll be supervising the bouncy castles and craft stall.
Early December we're putting on a free Christmas lunch for local pensioners.
Me and MrsT are buying all the free quality raffle prizes.
That's just some of the things we do, among many others throughout the year.
We do this, in part, so we can ask people to continue to support their local LABOUR Parish Council and vote Labour when the time comes.
All very commendable, Tommy.
What would you do if a very needy family, from your local parish, expressed their commitment to and belief in, the Conservative party, but still wanted to benefit from your wonderful charity work?
-
I was replying to tyke, who was on about forgetting principles and objectives, which I don't.
I act on them.
As for you.... Do one.
Only a rabid Tory would ask a question like that.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
-
You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.
You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .
I don't forget mine either tyke and spend a lot of my free time serving my community.
This evening we're putting on a free Halloween disco for local kids. I'm
cooking and serving the free food.
I deliver free food every Thursday to those struggling to manage.
Next week we're doing a free firework display and loads of entertainment for the kids.
I'll be supervising the bouncy castles and craft stall.
Early December we're putting on a free Christmas lunch for local pensioners.
Me and MrsT are buying all the free quality raffle prizes.
That's just some of the things we do, among many others throughout the year.
We do this, in part, so we can ask people to continue to support their local LABOUR Parish Council and vote Labour when the time comes.
All very commendable, Tommy.
What would you do if a very needy family, from your local parish, expressed their commitment to and belief in, the Conservative party, but still wanted to benefit from your wonderful charity work?
I'm not quite sure that attendence at a fireworks event, kid's disco or application for a food delivery is the same as dishing out PPE contracts - in that you only get them if you are connected to a particular political party - but happy to be corrected on this.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
-
I was replying to tyke, who was on about forgetting principles and objectives, which I don't.
I act on them.
As for you.... Do one.
Only a rabid Tory would ask a question like that.
It was a perfectly reasonable question in view of you stating the reasons, in part, why you do your fantastic work for charidee, but don’t like to talk about it.
There was no need to attack me.
And for the record, yet again, I have only ever voted Labour, despite you and others doing more harm than good for the Labour cause.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
Thanks for the support there SS.
Pies probably doesn’t think that him calling me a hypocrite is “attacking the poster”.
Perhaps if I was a Labour voter he wouldn’t have said anything.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
Seconded
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
Thanks for the support there SS.
Pies probably doesn’t think that him calling me a hypocrite is “attacking the poster”.
Perhaps if I was a Labour voter he wouldn’t have said anything.
I wouldn’t be too sure about that, Hound. Unfortunately, some people’s ignorance is so great that if they take a dislike to you, then you cannot possibly be a Labour supporter, despite the facts that say otherwise.
It’s a dangerous thought process.
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I was replying to tyke, who was on about forgetting principles and objectives, which I don't.
I act on them.
As for you.... Do one.
Only a rabid Tory would ask a question like that.
It was a perfectly reasonable question in view of you stating the reasons, in part, why you do your fantastic work for charidee, but don’t like to talk about it.
There was no need to attack me.
And for the record, yet again, I have only ever voted Labour, despite you and others doing more harm than good for the Labour cause.
I was refuting tykes post to me to point out that by doing what I do I'm not forgetting my principles.
Why you needed to come in with your lousy sarcasm I've no idea.
By the way it's not charity. It's mainly providing things to do for local people.
That's my last reply to you,on this subject or any other.
-
Okay, Tommy. That’s a shame, but at least you won’t incorrectly accuse me of being a rabid Tory, or any other kind of Tory, again, so it’s not all bad.
-
I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .
I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .
-
Any red tory is in it for themselves. Just on that, they fail on the most basic requirement for being in the Labour Party. That's not to say that many current Lab MPs are in it for themselves too.
Ideals are important. There can be a trading on that to some degree, but it's a toxic path to take, each sip from that cup taking someone further towards the dark side, and usually still believing they haven't lost their purpose.
-
I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .
I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .
Hound has said who he voted for in the past and it wasn't the Tories.
I like to think of him as our resident Andrew Neil. He asks the most pedantic, contrary, misleading and badly referenced questions on the forum that I am sure not even he believes fully.
But if you can't answer him in a respectful and accurate manner then you probably need to rethink your argument and know your subject better. Because its your response that's leting you down - not hound's questions.
-
I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .
I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .
Hound has said who he voted for in the past and it wasn't the Tories.
I like to think of him as our resident Andrew Neil. He asks the most pedantic, contrary, misleading and badly referenced questions on the forum that I am sure not even he believes fully.
But if you can't answer him in a respectful and accurate manner then you probably need to rethink your argument and know your subject better. Because its your response that's leting you down - not hound's questions.
Together with your prognosis of being argumentative too, it's certainly an interesting case wilts, where on the spectrum do you think he sits?
-
I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .
I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .
Hound has said who he voted for in the past and it wasn't the Tories.
I like to think of him as our resident Andrew Neil. He asks the most pedantic, contrary, misleading and badly referenced questions on the forum that I am sure not even he believes fully.
But if you can't answer him in a respectful and accurate manner then you probably need to rethink your argument and know your subject better. Because its your response that's leting you down - not hound's questions.
Together with your prognosis of being argumentative too, it's certainly an interesting case wilts, where on the spectrum do you think he sits?
I personally find hound one of the most interesting posters on the forum Syd and always enjoy debating with him. I hope hound does with me too.
So we are probably somewhere similar or adjacent to one another on the spectrum!
-
Red Tories on. mass joining the Labour party, I don't agree with, if any want to join, they would have to publicly renounce their Tory beliefs and affirm Labour beliefs. There can't be any going back for them. You make your bed, you lie in it.
-
So in essence you are similar and yet produce markedly different responses from many posters, would this because you have self awareness and hound doesn't? and yet in your list of faults you find with his posts suggest that either he is not aware of what he posts or as you say he does which would make him a troll of the highest order and a hypocrite?
life is strange aye
-
So in essence you are similar and yet produce markedly different responses from many posters, would this because you have self awareness and hound doesn't? and yet in your list of faults you find with his posts suggest that either he is not aware of what he posts or as you say he does which would make him a troll of the highest order and a hypocrite?
life is strange aye
Is that what I said, who knew!!
-
So in essence you are similar and yet produce markedly different responses from many posters, would this because you have self awareness and hound doesn't? and yet in your list of faults you find with his posts suggest that either he is not aware of what he posts or as you say he does which would make him a troll of the highest order and a hypocrite?
life is strange aye
Is that what I said, who knew!!
reading back through your comments it's difficult to come to an alternative conclusion wilts
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
I didn't imply that 'all on here' see him in the same way, only that he puts his hypocrisy on view to all on here. Contest my assertion of his hypocrisy by all means but his fixation with attacking individuals for who they are instead of debating their views is the reason for my calling him out.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
I didn't imply that 'all on here' see him in the same way, only that he puts his hypocrisy on view to all on here. Contest my assertion of his hypocrisy by all means but his fixation with attacking individuals for who they are instead of debating their views is the reason for my calling him out.
Very true, throws a grenade, stands back watches the explosion and then says why aren’t you commenting on others throwing grenades, “prominent poster” is his buzz phrase
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
I didn't imply that 'all on here' see him in the same way, only that he puts his hypocrisy on view to all on here. Contest my assertion of his hypocrisy by all means but his fixation with attacking individuals for who they are instead of debating their views is the reason for my calling him out.
Pies, you don’t like me, full stop.
I understand that and quite frankly, I don’t care what you think.
However, because you don’t like me you read stuff into my posts that isn’t there.
When I respond to someone like bst, it is always for a reason, not just because of who the poster is.
Invariably you or Filo jump in and tell me to stop trolling his posts.
That is not because I have asked a question of him but simply because it is me who has posted.
Filo mentions grenades, well you should look at some of the posts by bst as well because he often chucks my name into a post.
Click bait by him looking for a response.
What is this hypocrisy that you speak of anyway?
Can you explain in more detail what you are getting at and maybe quote an example.
I think your views all boil down to the fact that I’m not in the Labour vsc posters club.
Plenty of other Labour posters debate stuff with me without an issue but you and two or three others always make an issue of things I write about in off topic.
I suppose I could just agree with everything that you write and you would be happy but that wouldn’t be a true reflection of how I feel would it.
-
So in essence you are similar and yet produce markedly different responses from many posters, would this because you have self awareness and hound doesn't? and yet in your list of faults you find with his posts suggest that either he is not aware of what he posts or as you say he does which would make him a troll of the highest order and a hypocrite?
life is strange aye
Syd. I very rarely respond to your posts these days, often because I don’t have a clue what you are on about sometimes.
However, the above quote of yours does lead me to ask how you come to the conclusion that I have a lack of self awareness.
You don’t know me so it would be impossible for you to know one way or another on that score.
With regards to trolling people, I would suggest that you are far and away in front of me, and probably any other poster.
Finally, a hypocrite is someone who acts in contradiction to his stated beliefs and feelings.
How can you apply that to me.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
I didn't imply that 'all on here' see him in the same way, only that he puts his hypocrisy on view to all on here. Contest my assertion of his hypocrisy by all means but his fixation with attacking individuals for who they are instead of debating their views is the reason for my calling him out.
Pies, you don’t like me, full stop.
I understand that and quite frankly, I don’t care what you think.
However, because you don’t like me you read stuff into my posts that isn’t there.
When I respond to someone like bst, it is always for a reason, not just because of who the poster is.
Invariably you or Filo jump in and tell me to stop trolling his posts.
That is not because I have asked a question of him but simply because it is me who has posted.
Filo mentions grenades, well you should look at some of the posts by bst as well because he often chucks my name into a post.
Click bait by him looking for a response.
What is this hypocrisy that you speak of anyway?
Can you explain in more detail what you are getting at and maybe quote an example.
I think your views all boil down to the fact that I’m not in the Labour vsc posters club.
Plenty of other Labour posters debate stuff with me without an issue but you and two or three others always make an issue of things I write about in off topic.
I suppose I could just agree with everything that you write and you would be happy but that wouldn’t be a true reflection of how I feel would it.
Very accurate and very well put.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
I didn't imply that 'all on here' see him in the same way, only that he puts his hypocrisy on view to all on here. Contest my assertion of his hypocrisy by all means but his fixation with attacking individuals for who they are instead of debating their views is the reason for my calling him out.
Pies, you don’t like me, full stop.
I understand that and quite frankly, I don’t care what you think.
However, because you don’t like me you read stuff into my posts that isn’t there.
When I respond to someone like bst, it is always for a reason, not just because of who the poster is.
Invariably you or Filo jump in and tell me to stop trolling his posts.
That is not because I have asked a question of him but simply because it is me who has posted.
Filo mentions grenades, well you should look at some of the posts by bst as well because he often chucks my name into a post.
Click bait by him looking for a response.
What is this hypocrisy that you speak of anyway?
Can you explain in more detail what you are getting at and maybe quote an example.
I think your views all boil down to the fact that I’m not in the Labour vsc posters club.
Plenty of other Labour posters debate stuff with me without an issue but you and two or three others always make an issue of things I write about in off topic.
I suppose I could just agree with everything that you write and you would be happy but that wouldn’t be a true reflection of how I feel would it.
Hound, I don't know you so it can't be right to say I dislike you. I dislike the way you play the man and not the ball in respect of certain individuals on here, that is all.
I try to read most of the posts on Off Topic and when you post something that is just your opinion on the topic under discussion I often find myself agreeing with what you have said.
Unfortunately it is your seeming obsession with particular individuals and persistently making snide remarks that I find objectionable. I'm sure you can't realise just how predictable and tiresome you have become in that regard.
We've taken this thread totally off topic with this exchange which is unfair to everyone else on the board. For that I apologise. If you are agreeable, Hound I suggest if we have any further remarks to make we take it to personal messaging.
-
Attack the poster, not the subject then?
Crikey, Hound. Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.
Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.
No, Hound. I haven't attacked you. Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile. You are kidding only yourself.
ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.
As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.
I didn't imply that 'all on here' see him in the same way, only that he puts his hypocrisy on view to all on here. Contest my assertion of his hypocrisy by all means but his fixation with attacking individuals for who they are instead of debating their views is the reason for my calling him out.
Pies, you don’t like me, full stop.
I understand that and quite frankly, I don’t care what you think.
However, because you don’t like me you read stuff into my posts that isn’t there.
When I respond to someone like bst, it is always for a reason, not just because of who the poster is.
Invariably you or Filo jump in and tell me to stop trolling his posts.
That is not because I have asked a question of him but simply because it is me who has posted.
Filo mentions grenades, well you should look at some of the posts by bst as well because he often chucks my name into a post.
Click bait by him looking for a response.
What is this hypocrisy that you speak of anyway?
Can you explain in more detail what you are getting at and maybe quote an example.
I think your views all boil down to the fact that I’m not in the Labour vsc posters club.
Plenty of other Labour posters debate stuff with me without an issue but you and two or three others always make an issue of things I write about in off topic.
I suppose I could just agree with everything that you write and you would be happy but that wouldn’t be a true reflection of how I feel would it.
Hound, I don't know you so it can't be right to say I dislike you. I dislike the way you play the man and not the ball in respect of certain individuals on here, that is all.
I try to read most of the posts on Off Topic and when you post something that is just your opinion on the topic under discussion I often find myself agreeing with what you have said.
Unfortunately it is your seeming obsession with particular individuals and persistently making snide remarks that I find objectionable. I'm sure you can't realise just how predictable and tiresome you have become in that regard.
We've taken this thread totally off topic with this exchange which is unfair to everyone else on the board. For that I apologise. If you are agreeable, Hound I suggest if we have any further remarks to make we take it to personal messaging.
Pies, as I have alluded to, yourself and two or three others have also had an obsession with my posts (I see that your above post has picked up a like from one of them, hi Filo) so I guess that will continue too.
You might find some of my posts objectionable but it is sad that you can’t accept that I find some posters writings objectionable too.
The playing of the man is a two way thing as well.
Anyway, we can call it a draw for the sake of the others on here.
-
Excuse me a sec hound.
Sunak bragging about 15000 more police on the streets, but they still don't match the numbers that were there when labour were last in 2010.
righto carry on hound
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Excuse me a sec hound.
Sunak bragging about 15000 more police on the streets, but they still don't match the numbers that were there when labour were last in 2010.
righto carry on hound
This is true. I remember T May bragging about increasing the number of police not too long after Conservatives cut them also.
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Matt Hancock has Tory whip withdrawn for signing up for ‘I’m a Celebrity’.
Didn’t the fragrant Nadine do the same a few years ago?
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Matt Hancock has Tory whip withdrawn for signing up for ‘I’m a Celebrity’.
Didn’t the fragrant Nadine do the same a few years ago?
Wonder why he's decided to do that?
On an unrelated note I'll just leave this symbol here: ££££££££££££
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How devalued is the word "celebrity" if it now attaches to a politician who was shit at his job?
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I guess he's not going to stand at the next election and is trying to establish himself as a 'personality' to increase his fees for after dinner speaking and panel games.
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Matt Hancock has Tory whip withdrawn for signing up for ‘I’m a Celebrity’.
Didn’t the fragrant Nadine do the same a few years ago?
Yes, and lost the whip for 6 months.
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He's planning to release a book on the Pandemic before Xmas . Nice, well paid, free publicity for that.
Anyone adding Matt's book to their Xmas list?
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I’ve got some bushtucker trial ideas if they need help
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I thought this was interesting; No consequences for those who said something happened that didn't? Seems odd.
'No bullying' took place during fracking vote incident - Speaker
Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle has completed his report into the disturbances during the vote on fracking which helped bring down Liz Truss's government.
Some MPs said there was "bullying" of other colleagues into voting certain ways, amid confusion in Tory ranks over whether it was a confidence vote in the government or not.
Speaking in the chamber, Sir Lindsay said his report found that the "atmosphere was tense", but there was "no evidence of any bullying or undue influence placed on other members".
He added that "crowding made it hard to see what was really taking place".
Sir Lindsay added: "While some members thought that physical contact was being used to force a member into the [voting] lobby, the member concerned has said very clearly that this did not happen.
"Those with the clearest views of the incident have confirmed this."
Sir Lindsay encouraged MPs to treat each other "with respect" - adding that taking pictures during proceedings was not allowed.
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Matt Hancock has Tory whip withdrawn for signing up for ‘I’m a Celebrity’.
Didn’t the fragrant Nadine do the same a few years ago?
Wonder why he's decided to do that?
On an unrelated note I'll just leave this symbol here: ££££££££££££
And will he still be drawing his salary as an MP?
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How devalued is the word "celebrity" if it now attaches to a politician who was shit at his job?
And is just about to bring a book out.
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Matt Hancock has Tory whip withdrawn for signing up for ‘I’m a Celebrity’.
Didn’t the fragrant Nadine do the same a few years ago?
Wonder why he's decided to do that?
On an unrelated note I'll just leave this symbol here: ££££££££££££
And will he still be drawing his salary as an MP?
Yes. MP's dont actually work for anyone - other than their constituents - and there is no way of them throwing him out unless a by-election is called.
Johnson (MP for Uxbridge) is in the Caribbean - has been for a month. And remember the fuss last year, which began his downfall about MP's doing second jobs during Parliamentry time. They can be suspended/thrown out of their Party but there is no way of throwing them out of the HoC - beacuse they don't work for the HoC - it's just where they work.
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His constituents could try a recall petition.
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His constituents could try a recall petition.
Limited circumstances in which that can be done:
- convicted of an offence and
received a custodial sentence
(including a suspended
sentence) or ordered to be
detained, other than solely under
mental health legislation
- barred from the House of
Commons for 10 sitting days or
14 calendar days, or
- convicted of providing false or
misleading information for
allowance claims under the
Parliamentary Standards Act
2009
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Constituents cannot initiate starting the process for a recall petition. Only if an MP has been found guilty of a serious offence, and/or barred from the HoC for 10 sitting days, or found guilty of providing false information, can one be started.
He is certainly guilty of bad judgment and serious self-publicity - but hasn't committed any of those 3 criteria I'm afraid.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/2021-05/Recall%20Act%20-%20initial%20factsheet%20-%20amended%20April%202021.pdf
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Pies, Hound - please continue your debate. Things have moved on to whether or not a politician should be allowed on I’m A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here!
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I see he says he will be attending COPS27, no U turn there then!
I also see that Johnson intends to attend, who will be financing his self proclaimed attendance?
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I wonder if we'll see johnson flying into the Ukraine anytime soon
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Why are people so obsessed with the idea that everything anyone more to the right of them does is money orientated?
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I guess a big part of that comes from how the tories have run the country
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Why are people so obsessed with the idea that everything anyone more to the right of them does is money orientated?
They aren't.
They ARE certain that mist things Johnson does is money related.
Can't begin to think why...
https://youtu.be/E7GQ4UANm4k
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£250k a year is also chicken feed to premiership footballers. How many of those are Tories?
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Bye BB.
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If you can't answer questions BST, don't get involved in things you refuse to understand.
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If you can't discuss something without changing the goalposts every second post BB, I'm out. Have fun.
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If you mean by changing the goalposts I'm attacking those at the other end you are right. I take it that's not allowed under your rules?
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If you mean by changing the goalposts I'm attacking those at the other end you are right. I take it that's not allowed under your rules?
Attacking those at the other end? Premiership footballers!
Not so much changing goalposts as running head first into one.
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Those at the other end, Premiership footballers? Now let me think... too big a share of the wealth and too little brains to go with it? Tories all day long.
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https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-sells-poppies-at-westminster-tube-station-during-rush-hour-12737096
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Those at the other end, Premiership footballers? Now let me think... too big a share of the wealth and too little brains to go with it? Tories all day long.
If only people gave more of their money away, that would solve all the worlds problems!
The penny has dropped for even Bono on this matter
https://www.theblaze.com/news/bono-poverty-capitalism-commerce-jobs#toggle-gdpr
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Gosh another addition to the shortest (fill in here ) with these governments, sunny loses his first minister as williamson is forced to quit. It was looking pretty fragile when they had to ask shapps to speak about it ffs
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https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-paid-over-163276000-for-speech-at-us-insurance-conference-12749687
I guess Rishi has this to look forward to if things don't work out.
I'm guessing Johnson did this speech whilst Parliament was sitting.
After his 6 weeks off whilst the Tories voted in Truss, he then went to Doninica whilst the Kamikwasi thing happened whilst Parliament was also sitting.
And no doubt drawing his pittance of an MP's salary.