Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Copps is Magic on April 19, 2023, 08:06:30 pm
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
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Just you !!
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I’m willing to give him a go. These two things are both true - he has by and large produced poor football and very poor results, but equally he is paying some price for dreadful recruitment decisions in the past and while we have lost a lot of games, as soon as play offs died a few weeks ago does it really matter?
I’d imagine that he will turn out to be a fairly average manager for us, but we won’t be able to tell what he is like until next season and a full window with a decent budget. After that, there really is no excuse.
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Unbelievable that anyone would want to keep DS!!! But I do agree - we keep choosing bad managers! Get rid of the man who brought in DS and who determines strategy / player recruitment…….Coppinger!!!!
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I'm very much of the opinion that the head coach needs to be replaced for all the reasons we've talked about.
But I take no pleasure in it and I don't want to see him fail. If they stick with him I think it's the wrong choice. But I won't want him to fail and I'll still fully want us to win every week and I'll still be watching the games weekly.
I totally don't agree with the opening post, I wish I did. I think he's had enough chances and I actually think they'll move in the days after the season finishes.
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
For me it’s not just about the now , it’s how got we get here . Decisions to appoint yet another unproven manager and with little or no budget to work with . Is like a blind man leading a deaf man ! Directionless .
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
God help us if there’s more people who think alike
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
For me it’s not just about the now , it’s how got we get here . Decisions to appoint yet another unproven manager and with little or no budget to work with . Is like a blind man leading a deaf man ! Directionless .
So there was no thinking or rationale in appointing him then? Do you honestly believe that?
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I totally don't agree with the opening post, I wish I did. I think he's had enough chances and I actually think they'll move in the days after the season finishes.
He's had enough chances between now and late October when he was employed? What chances will you give a new manager? How long is reasonable?
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
So you are actually the real James Coppinger after all!!
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You never know, this could be his lowest point and make him!
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
Well you're not the only one but you're in a vanishingly small minority!
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
For me it’s not just about the now , it’s how got we get here . Decisions to appoint yet another unproven manager and with little or no budget to work with . Is like a blind man leading a deaf man ! Directionless .
So there was no thinking or rationale in appointing him then? Do you honestly believe that?
So what was the rationale in appointing him? He's no managerial achievements on his CV whatsoever.
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It’s not just the results though is it. Although they are always going to be what any manager / head coach will be judged on.
It also the quality of the football. Well the total lack of quality.
It is absolutely dire.
It is the worst I have ever seen from a Rovers team bar 97/98
We create almost next to nothing and score very few.
We play 3 centre backs and we still leak really bad sloppy goals.
There is no justification to keep DS and potentially waste TB’s money and another season.
It is a risk not worth taking and in fact it could be from what I have seen from DS over the last 6 months be a catastrophic decision for the Club to keep him.
He has got to go.
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
For me it’s not just about the now , it’s how got we get here . Decisions to appoint yet another unproven manager and with little or no budget to work with . Is like a blind man leading a deaf man ! Directionless .
So there was no thinking or rationale in appointing him then? Do you honestly believe that?
Tell me what was the rationale in appointing another unproven manager . Can you honestly say this is what they had in mind when he was given the job?
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Been done to death now. Doesn’t look like there’s going to be a change no matter how many fans want him gone. So we just need to hope someone is getting some really quality lined up in summer and see how he gets on next season.
I can’t look forward to a new season if he’s going to be here at the moment but with a bit of time away and some signings maybe they’ll be a glimmer of optimism before the 1st game.
They’d be a lot more excitement for next season with a new manager knowing they’d have extra funds. DS is in negative credit and it could be a complete embarrassment if he doesn’t make a good start. No excuses next season please.
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I have some respect for those that still hold a shred of faith. Perhaps some have read too many stories about Melchester Rovers when they were younger. And we have enjoyed some magical moments in recent years haven’t we.
I just can’t see schofield rising like some phoenix from the ashes.
I’d love to see his job interview for this post.
He does not meet what any sane person would have as the person spec surely ?
With every game played his appointment makes less and less sense.
Was his brief merely survival?
Who knows?
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Didn’t we have a list of requirements released when the job was open before McSheffery got it. He met absolutely none of the supposed criteria. When you look at it the hiring of managers wasn’t that bad till we stopped following the spec.
Frustratingly slow yes but Fergie, McCann and Moore were all good gets. Even Wellens in theory wasn’t that bad although he probably didn’t meet a few of the criteria we’d normally set I.e. too combustible
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I totally don't agree with the opening post, I wish I did. I think he's had enough chances and I actually think they'll move in the days after the season finishes.
He's had enough chances between now and late October when he was employed? What chances will you give a new manager? How long is reasonable?
6 months, nearly 30 games is a decent stab at it. In 6 months I expect progress and we don't have progress forwards, we don't even have glimpses.
I don't disagree we cannot just keep changing from one to the next, we should get the right one in the first place, someone with a semblance of experience and a plan.
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It’s a bit worrying the manager has to be allowed to sign a whole new squad before he can be judged. Why get rid of McSheffery if we expected nothing from his replacement till the summer.
If you can only improve by signing players what does it say about the coaching. Fair enough to get to another level new players are needed but to see improvement from McSheffery shouldn’t need signings.
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It’s a bit worrying the manager has to be allowed to sign a whole new squad before he can be judged. Why get rid of McSheffery if we expected nothing from his replacement till the summer.
If you can only improve by signing players what does it say about the coaching. Fair enough to get to another level new players are needed but to see improvement from McSheffery shouldn’t need signings.
It's not that surprising at all. There's only so far you can 'coach' players.
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It’s a bit worrying the manager has to be allowed to sign a whole new squad before he can be judged. Why get rid of McSheffery if we expected nothing from his replacement till the summer.
If you can only improve by signing players what does it say about the coaching. Fair enough to get to another level new players are needed but to see improvement from McSheffery shouldn’t need signings.
It's not that surprising at all. There's only so far you can 'coach' players.
Yes but he’s not taken them any further than the man we got rid of. Which either means it was wrong to sack him or DS also is limited as a coach. Not a great advert for our future under him
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He’s got to go, and Copps too
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No decent player is going to join -copps "because of the type of football we play" I hope they like falling asleep with boredom at games too then.
The longer we keep DS, fall further down the league and showcase the rubbish defensive can't even be called football that is really on show - frustrate the fans even more, nobody half decent is going to want to come.
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Most people would like to get behind him and boot him straight out of the door ,he need to go nothing will change next season and will be sacked by Xmas ,the only thing we are doing by giving him another transfer window is wasting time and money to start again in December
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It’s a bit worrying the manager has to be allowed to sign a whole new squad before he can be judged. Why get rid of McSheffery if we expected nothing from his replacement till the summer.
If you can only improve by signing players what does it say about the coaching. Fair enough to get to another level new players are needed but to see improvement from McSheffery shouldn’t need signings.
It's not that surprising at all. There's only so far you can 'coach' players.
What evidence is there that Schofield has achieved anything progressive with his “coaching”. When will his supporters recognise that the results of his coaching have taken us backwards?
No one would dispute that you cannot coach players beyond their innate ability, but there is no doubt - and most of us will know people who we have worked for or with - that a good teacher/coach/manager/ mentor - from whom we have learned and become better at our job. Quite often these are individuals who have an engaging personality and have taken a real interest in helping us. We probably even mention them to others for what they did for us. Everyone around them benefits.
Where is this quality in Schofield? Has he improved any of the players in the squad. As many have said, a lot of them have got worse. If he were the coach that some people imagine he might be, he would be able to improve the quality, but it seems to have got worse. The players don’t go out of their way to mention his influence. All he has succeeded in doing is making them feel that it their fault. And that is the sort of message that a poor manager will want to imprint on his charges. Come to think of it, I don’t remember him ever mentioning Copps, so I wonder whether he ever learns anything from him.
Then of course, there is the opposite experience. The manager who comes in and doesn’t want to see what works and what doesn’t and just changes everything without talking to people. He or she insists on introducing a completely new system, irrespective of the individual abilities of the “workers”. And in DRFC’s case this is the Schofield “Process”.
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Alot of people claiming facts about DS when it can only be opinion if you don't have access to the training pitch and the dressing room.
I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was sacked but I'm neither dead against him or can say he's incompetent.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's a boards decision to give him to the end of the season to see how he performs under difficult circumstances with the long list of injuries and having to integrate the youth and fringe players.
I don't think it would be fair to expect better results with fewer players available but see how he and the team performs when it gets tough.
Just because he's still here doesn't mean Copps and the board have buried their heads in the sand.
The daily rants on this forum aren't going to change the boards decision but if it helps folk let off steam, fair do's.
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The you can only coach so far is valid the problem is he’s coached backwards
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Unbelievable that anyone would want to keep DS!!! But I do agree - we keep choosing bad managers! Get rid of the man who brought in DS and who determines strategy / player recruitment…….Coppinger!!!!
But Orient chose the same "bad manager" that we did. Doesn't that suggest there is more to it than this and keeping changing managers every year is pointless. I think you've been watching them for too long...have a break for a few years and see if you miss it!?
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I was in this camp to be honest. But some of the recent performances, and moreso the general atmosphere that has built up around the club has made me think it has become untenable.
That's not because I think DS couldn't have succeeded in better circumstances, but I think the scales have been tipped too far the wrong way for this to work now.
Next season is going to be hugely important. If the club is spending money this summer and trying to go for it next season, I can't see it working against a backdrop of unrest, anger, and the complete lack of quality, co-ordination and hope being displayed on the pitch at the moment. We've got virtually nothing to take into the summer in terms of glimmers that next season is going to be any good. If DS remains in charge, it's only going to take a couple of early defeats, or going 1-0 down in the opening game of next season, and the toxicity will come out again, and that won't help anyone.
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Schofield inherited a lousy squad.
Nobody could have made a silk purse out of this lot, whatever tactics they used.
There will be a mass clear out at the end of the season.
So to be fair to Schofield, let him sign the players he wants with the extra investment and see how it goes.
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Schofield inherited a lousy squad.
Nobody could have made a silk purse out of this lot, whatever tactics they used.
There will be a mass clear out at the end of the season.
So to be fair to Schofield, let him sign the players he wants with the extra investment and see how it goes.
No, no, no!! This is a terrible idea. Keep Dull Danny/Sleepy Schofield and our attendances are going to plummet. Club shop sales drop, sponsorship money vanish and forget the " catering income" the whole concept of Club Doncaster I would say relies heavily on the fortunes of the first team.
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Schofield inherited a lousy squad.
Nobody could have made a silk purse out of this lot, whatever tactics they used.
There will be a mass clear out at the end of the season.
So to be fair to Schofield, let him sign the players he wants with the extra investment and see how it goes.
No, no, no!! This is a terrible idea. Keep Dull Danny/Sleepy Schofield and our attendances are going to plummet. Club shop sales drop, sponsorship money vanish and forget the " catering income" the whole concept of Club Doncaster I would say relies heavily on the fortunes of the first team.
Agreed. Where is the evidence that he can improve any player's game? That is what coaches are supposed to do. The squad he inherited are far better than the appalling record of results that he has presided over. There is no evidence whatsoever that he can coach football at anything approaching this level.
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Schofield inherited a lousy squad.
Nobody could have made a silk purse out of this lot, whatever tactics they used.
There will be a mass clear out at the end of the season.
So to be fair to Schofield, let him sign the players he wants with the extra investment and see how it goes.
Read what Copps said he believes when we get players in the summer they will add to our strong squad for this league. So he doesn’t believe we have a lousy squad as you put it. His judgement should be questioned
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I think a lot of excuses are being made for him. Many managers have to come into a club, and use what they’ve been left by their predecessor.
With a fully fit starting eleven, there is enough in the side, under a different manager, to have been in the top three minimum.
He has decided to use a style of play alien to most of the side. I love the short passing game, but there must be a purpose to it.
He has had the usual injuries that every rovers manager gets. This has led to using players on the fringes of the side who are bottom half quality. First eleven-top three, Fringe players- lower half.
His biggest problems are, he hasn’t been able to get anywhere near the best out of any player. Injuries have led to a drop in the quality he has available. The board have not backed him enough, to give him a top quality squad- gone on the cheap as usual. The players he’s had available just aren’t good enough to think quickly enough, to play the short passing game.
He has principles how he wants to play, I applaud that, but if you see it not working self preservation must set in to save your job.
I didn’t think it would work in the first place, but get no satisfaction from that. He had a reasonable start and a bit of optimism was building.
The clubs way of appointing managers and trying to recruit players, has caught up with them unfortunately. Now it will take a lot of hard work to dig ourselves out of this malaise, that’s set into the foundations of the club.
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
On balance, I'll grit my teeth and give him a go.
Partly on instinct.
Partly because I've seen flashes of what I think he wants us to play like.
Partly because if we bring in an Evans-type manager, it might well squeeze a little more out of a squad like this, but it would not set us up for a sustainable return to L1.
Partly because I fail to see how any manager can be fairly judged when he hasn't had a chance to build his own squad, and when of the players he inherited, after 2 years of appalling recruitment, only a slack handful have been available for more than 75% of games
Partly because I'm conscious (despite those who deny it here) of how vitriolic the atmosphere was against O'Driscoll in the early days, and how long it took him, with all the advantages he had, to start getting a far, far better squad to even look like half the sum of its parts[1].
So I'll give him a go. And hold my hand up if it goes tits up. I wonder if certain others would hold their hands up if it succeeds?
[1] Two games in particular stand out. The Cup match at Mansfield, when he dropped Heffernan after saying Guy was the best finisher at the club, and we spent 60 minutes firing 70 yard balls to McCammon on the left wing, with a big, striker-shaped void in the middle of the front line. The abuse that day was quite something. Then, 12 months later, after a string of utterly turgid performances, grindingly, crushingly dull, sterile keep-ball matches with barely a chance in them, we got totally outplayed by Yeovil. Our side that day was:
Sullivan
O'Connor
Lockwood
S Roberts
McDaid
Stock
Wellens
Wilson
Woods
Hayter
Guy
He selected Mark Wilson ahead of Paul Green, as he'd done for 9 months.
He put Jamie Coppinger on the bench as he'd done for the previous 2 months or so.
That was the nadir of that run of 45 points from 38 matches, with the most expensive, most carefully constructed squad we'd ever assembled up to that point. We were beyond awful that night. Again, the vitriol was shocking. It's one of only 2-3 games that I've ever left with 10 mins to go, because was sick to the back teeth of watching the ponderous rubbish we were serving up. I vociferously wanted O'Driscoll out. So did the overwhelming majority in the ground that night.
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I'm still just about in the same camp as Copps' OP. The lack of fight and organisation is really poor, but the guy is on a hiding to nothing here. He inherited a shocking squad, sorely lacking in depth and quality, and didn't have a pre season to get them into shape. I think the rot had set in a lot deeper than we realise. Let's clear out the dead wood and give him a chance to succeed rather than setting him up to fail. Because any manager would be failing in this situation.
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To be honest, I am behind DS for next season. He improved things when he came in initially. Then somewhere along the line we completely dropped off a cliff. He's really not had any transfer window of any description to work with. January was embarrassing for the club in terms of who left vs who came in but is that all his fault? I certainly don't think so.
The recent lack of fight and pride and not being in games is indeed worrying. But football has become too short-termist. We take bad form for a bad manager and I'm not really convinced by that.
On balance, I'll grit my teeth and give him a go.
Partly on instinct.
Partly because I've seen flashes of what I think he wants us to play like.
Partly because if we bring in an Evans-type manager, it might well squeeze a little more out of a squad like this, but it would not set us up for a sustainable return to L1.
Partly because I fail to see how any manager can be fairly judged when he hasn't had a chance to build his own squad, and when of the players he inherited, after 2 years of appalling recruitment, only a slack handful have been available for more than 75% of games
Partly because I'm conscious (despite those who deny it here) of how vitriolic the atmosphere was against O'Driscoll in the early days, and how long it took him, with all the advantages he had, to start getting a far, far better squad to even look like half the sum of its parts[1].
So I'll give him a go. And hold my hand up if it goes tits up. I wonder if certain others would hold their hands up if it succeeds?
[1] Two games in particular stand out. The Cup match at Mansfield, when he dropped Heffernan after saying Guy was the best finisher at the club, and we spent 60 minutes firing 70 yard balls to McCammon on the left wing, with a big, striker-shaped void in the middle of the front line. The abuse that day was quite something. Then, 12 months later, after a string of utterly turgid performances, grindingly, crushingly dull, sterile keep-ball matches with barely a chance in them, we got totally outplayed by Yeovil. Our side that day was:
Sullivan
O'Connor
Lockwood
S Roberts
McDaid
Stock
Wellens
Wilson
Woods
Hayter
Guy
He selected Mark Wilson ahead of Paul Green, as he'd done for 9 months.
He put Jamie Coppinger on the bench as he'd done for the previous 2 months or so.
That was the nadir of that run of 45 points from 38 matches, with the most expensive, most carefully constructed squad we'd ever assembled up to that point. We were beyond awful that night. Again, the vitriol was shocking. It's one of only 2-3 games that I've ever left with 10 mins to go, because was sick to the back teeth of watching the ponderous rubbish we were serving up. I vociferously wanted O'Driscoll out. So did the overwhelming majority in the ground that night.
I can vividly remember how I felt during the Yeovil game and how I'm feeling now is remarkably similar.
There is a slight difference though. O'Driscoll did have some charisma and evident leadership qualities and his number 2 had charisma in spades. I don't know whether I'm retrospectively projecting those attributes, because O'Driscoll was successful, but I recall him offering insight and explanations to what he wanted to do in press conferences. That is in stark contrast to what we get now.
We get choice picks from a coaching glossary ad nauseam. Moments cost us. Do something on the training ground to stop those moments. We didn't win enough first (or second, or third) contacts. That has been churned out for MONTHS. Do something on the training ground to alter that. We struggled with the fundamentals (passing, tackling, running? Shooting!) Do something on the training ground to alter that then. By contrast, I don't know if I'm so irritated by Schofield's mantras because he is so unsuccessful.
The Yeovil game stands out on its own as the nadir of O'Driscoll's reign. We have endured numerous games where we haven't mustered a single corner or effort on or off target under Schofield. It's just unheard of. I would fancy Matlock to go to Manchester United and at least cross the halfway line. We struggled to do this against Stevenage. We're in a real mess and it would be blind faith trusting Schofield, or any of the personnel at the club at the moment, to fix it.
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SOD and Schofield should never be mentioned in the same post (whoops, I’ve just done it).
SOD had history before joining us (JR told us all why he went all out to get him and ROK). What has DS done?
Don’t worry, BST, if the Club are daft enough to keep him in post and he (somehow) gets it right, then I’ll hold my hands up. Personally, there’s no way he should be here after the season’s sorry end.
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BST
I was at the Mansfield game and remember shouting for O'Driscoll to f*** off back to Bournemouth, and I was one of many.
Thank god he didn't.
This is one reason why I think Schofield should be persevered with.
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BST
I was at the Mansfield game and remember shouting for O'Driscoll to f*** off back to Bournemouth, and I was one of many.
Thank god he didn't.
This is one reason why I think Schofield should be persevered with.
:facepalm: imo.
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BST
I was at the Mansfield game and remember shouting for O'Driscoll to f*** off back to Bournemouth, and I was one of many.
Thank god he didn't.
This is one reason why I think Schofield should be persevered with.
To my shame, I was chanting the same.
It was stupid, ignorant, impatient and immature.
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There is no comparison between the start of SoDs time with us and what we are seeing now.
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I was there too and have never shouted abuse. I am beyond frustrated and thank God I have a place to vent my anger in a more pleasant way on here.
DS is nowhere near the man to take us forward and the club are leaving it well too late, they have now got to the point where some of the 40+ years fans maybe won't return, even if successful.
It's become part of life now, where we don't turn up and only look for the score and have entertainment with the family.
I've not done that on a Saturday for 30+ years but now I had a choice be bored titless or spend time with my family.
It will take a mass turnaround for me to return and I'm sire many others will be the same.
Prolonging the matter allowing the clinger ons to still get more frustrated is just digging a deeper hole.
It needs a change of manager quick so we can all look forward to next year and getting behind the team, it's gone too far.
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SOD had a good record before he joined us to suggest he could turn it around.
DS was sacked after 1 win in 9 games before he joined us.
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Isn’t a large reason he’s here the relationship Copps has with Leigh Bromley who is HoF at Huddersfield. Just seems strange if so.
They obviously thought it wasn’t worth sticking with him and letting him build his own squad. Maybe any recommendation from Bromley was about his feeling guilty of sacking a nice guy so quickly
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SOD had a good record before he joined us to suggest he could turn it around.
DS was sacked after 1 win in 9 games before he joined us.
O'Driscoll DID have a reasonable record before he joined us. He had one relegation and one promotion on his record.
It's worth looking at what he was like when he first started at Bournemouth.
His record after 1/3rd of his first season was:
P15 W1 D7 L7 Pts 10 PPG 0.67 - equivalent to 30-31 points over a full season.
I wonder how many of the "you can't compare O'Driscoll to Schofield" folk in here would have been willing to stick with a manager with that starting record...
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We have stuck with this manager after twice as many games and a much worse set of results.
No comparison.
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This was never ever, ever, ever a top 3 squad.
We are reaping the rewards of the mismanagement of funds, and player identification going back a few seasons now.
I’m not sure how far back this goes, but it has been a slow decline that only gets noticed when it gets too far.
I fully think the board thought we would get back up easily - as did some on here by the look of it(including me) it is usually what happens when you do have a team that is good higher league quality.
Until we fully change the playing staff we will struggle and so will ANY manager regardless of how they play, to get us back up into league 1.
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O'Driscoll was the best manager in all my years going to the Rovers but...
Early on, until he got the players he needed, and got his style over to them, we were dire.
Late on when JR ran out of money and the squad was wafer thin and most of them were injured, we were terrible.
Remember us passing the ball about in our own half and getting nowhere?
Things are much the same now, due to the terrible squad of players we've got.
Schofield style of play is similar to SOD and is probably why they appointed him in the first place.
He needs better players to work with
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This Sean O'Driscoll argument is both facile and irrational.
It could be used to excuse the continued employment of any manager regardless of their ineptitude. It is an argument therefore unhealthy to the prospects of the football club.
There is no evidence that just because O'Driscoll turned things around that Schofield is likely to do the same.
It is facile as: Schofield is not O'Driscoll; Rovers are in a completely different place off the field; the players are different and of both a different comparative quality and of different character; crucially Rovers are in the next division down.
It is irrational because it is not based on evidence at all but emotions. "Instinct", "guilt", "shame" at being wrong previously.
The evidence shows that under Schofield Rovers have been in relegation form since the turn of the year despite the manager being able to select a decent League 2 set of players for the majority of those games.
The evidence shows that supporters are staying away and not renewing their season tickets because of the poor form but also how tedious they find the football under Schofield. This is damaging the club financially.
The evidence shows that if Schofield is unable to turn things around and current long term form continues into next season Doncaster Rovers place in the Football League will come under threat.
Is it worth risking that outcome on an evidence-free argument and instincts??
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
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I will consume a substantial portion of humble pie if somehow DS manages to turn his process and next seasons squad into something that resembles a competitive entertaining side.
I don’t even insist on promotion.
I’d take balanced results. But I demand to witness the following basic ingredients that most football supporters thrive on:
Fight.
Determination.
Teamwork
Spirit.
Leadership on and off field.
Maybe even a few goals.
And I want to see the support base won back with all of the above.
I’ve seen nothing that gives me confidence that any of the above will happen, let alone all of the above.
Because, as good a textbook coach Schofield may be, he isn’t a motivator. He may want to lead this team, but they don’t give me the impression they are following. That is plain to see. Imo.
Textbook coaching will not succeed in lge 2.
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Can afford to have a slow start because your implementing something deeper when the clubs on the up and has a decent base. When a clubs been in free fall it’s naive to think that won’t just compound things.
It’s not DS’s fault. In hiring him we probably didn’t read the room and grasp how fed up everyone is.
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=287635.0
You're in a significant minority
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I feel sorry for TB. He is probably about to drop a few million quid on a roulette wheel. He will pick red, because that’s what Copps and DS will advise, but there aren’t as many red slots as there should be. Because the wheel is already loaded.
And it’s not in his favour.
And if next season ends in ruin, again, the blame cannot and should not be laid at his door.
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
You call 10% plenty of folk?
In fact, I'll again ask all the DS apologists on here the same 2 questions I keep asking, to which I get no reply. Firstly, what is there on his CV that remotely suggests he's capable of achieving promotion from League 2?
Secondly, how big a hit are Rovers going to take in ST sales for next season if DS is kept on?
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
91.6% says your in a massive minority.
That pole is not Twitter, Face Book, but this DRFC Viking forum.
Ave age will probably be over 50 ( I have no facts on that but think it will be well over 50 ) so long term
die hard supporters in the case of quite a serious number i would think.
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
i know you enjoy an argument but you’ll struggle with this one. Maybe that’s the point though
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Not a chance. Awful, inflexible, dire defensive tactics and watches a different game to me every single week.
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SOD and Schofield should never be mentioned in the same post (whoops, I’ve just done it).
SOD had history before joining us (JR told us all why he went all out to get him and ROK). What has DS done?
Don’t worry, BST, if the Club are daft enough to keep him in post and he (somehow) gets it right, then I’ll hold my hands up. Personally, there’s no way he should be here after the season’s sorry end.
Couldn’t agree more Alan. Any comparison between SOD and DS is preposterous.
SOD had proven L1/L2 pedigree but also a purist football streak that JR admired. Probably based on the 5-0 thrashing that his Bournemouth team handed to us in one L1 game.
The problem was that what was essentially a joint project between JR and SOD was slow to get off the ground and people started getting frustrated. SOD didn’t help himself by neglecting some players in favour of others but he instilled his footballing principles into the squad to such an extent that when it clicked we consistently performed to a very high standard irrespective of team changes.
I’m sure that DS has his own footballing principles- what manager doesn’t - but the lack of passion from the Board, the lack of a JR style vision and DS’s lack of experience means that we’re a million miles away from that time.
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
You call 10% plenty of folk?
In fact, I'll again ask all the DS apologists on here the same 2 questions I keep asking, to which I get no reply. Firstly, what is there on his CV that remotely suggests he's capable of achieving promotion from League 2?
Secondly, how big a hit are Rovers going to take in ST sales for next season if DS is kept on?
A manager took us from The conference to league one with no experience, Duff took over at Cheltenham with no experience, McKenna took over at Ipswich with no experience,
Regarding season tickets, no wonder nobody has given an answer, how would anyone know the answer
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
91.6% says your in a massive minority.
That pole is not Twitter, Face Book, but this DRFC Viking forum.
Ave age will probably be over 50 ( I have no facts on that but think it will be well over 50 ) so long term
die hard supporters in the case of quite a serious number i would think.
Of course it’s a minority, I didn’t suggest otherwise! Was just pointing out there are others who are willing to give him the summer to build his squad
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SOD and Schofield should never be mentioned in the same post (whoops, I’ve just done it).
SOD had history before joining us (JR told us all why he went all out to get him and ROK). What has DS done?
Don’t worry, BST, if the Club are daft enough to keep him in post and he (somehow) gets it right, then I’ll hold my hands up. Personally, there’s no way he should be here after the season’s sorry end.
Couldn’t agree more Alan. Any comparison between SOD and DS is preposterous.
SOD had proven L1/L2 pedigree but also a purist football streak that JR admired. Probably based on the 5-0 thrashing that his Bournemouth team handed to us in one L1 game.
The problem was that what was essentially a joint project between JR and SOD was slow to get off the ground and people started getting frustrated. SOD didn’t help himself by neglecting some players in favour of others but he instilled his footballing principles into the squad to such an extent that when it clicked we consistently performed to a very high standard irrespective of team changes.
I’m sure that DS has his own footballing principles- what manager doesn’t - but the lack of passion from the Board, the lack of a JR style vision and DS’s lack of experience means that we’re a million miles away from that time.
None of which changes the fact that, with the most expensively assembled squad in our history up to that point, O'Driscoll managed something very close to relegation form for almost a season.
It was an act of faith that he would be able to turn that round.
And yes, he did have something of a track record, though scarcely an unblemished one.
But more pertinent to my point is his very early career. He took over a side that had finished comfortably in mid table the previous year. He then won 1 of his first 13 games as a manager (not 15 as I'd said before - my mistake there). I wonder how many from this forum would have been screaming that he had no track record to point to, was clearly failing and should be get rid of?
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Some selective stats in that last paragraph BST:
O'Driscoll was named boss on 9/9/2006. Rovers lost that day. He then lost two of the following 11 games, winning 2 and drawing 7. He then won 7 of the following 8 games. His first season was also the one we won the JPT. After which, yes, I grant you the team largely packed up and went to the beach.
Schofield's first 12 games: W5 D1 L6 (including the loss to Kings Lynn). Form since: P18 W4 D3 L11. Exclude that block of 3 wins in February and we've been in freefall. Injuries have been a factor but freefall...
Yes, it was a slow start for O'Driscoll and he had a much better bunch of players than Schofield has now but, come on, there's no comparison.
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Some selective stats in that last paragraph BST:
O'Driscoll was named boss on 9/9/2006. Rovers lost that day. He then lost two of the following 11 games, winning 2 and drawing 7. He then won 7 of the following 8 games. His first season was also the one we won the JPT. After which, yes, I grant you the team largely packed up and went to the beach.
Schofield's first 12 games: W5 D1 L6 (including the loss to Kings Lynn). Form since: P18 W4 D3 L11. Exclude that block of 3 wins in February and we've been in freefall. Injuries have been a factor but freefall...
Yes, it was a slow start for O'Driscoll and he had a much better bunch of players than Schofield has now but, come on, there's no comparison.
I'm talking about his start as Bournemouth manager. My apologies if that wasn't clear.
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Some selective stats in that last paragraph BST:
O'Driscoll was named boss on 9/9/2006. Rovers lost that day. He then lost two of the following 11 games, winning 2 and drawing 7. He then won 7 of the following 8 games. His first season was also the one we won the JPT. After which, yes, I grant you the team largely packed up and went to the beach.
Schofield's first 12 games: W5 D1 L6 (including the loss to Kings Lynn). Form since: P18 W4 D3 L11. Exclude that block of 3 wins in February and we've been in freefall. Injuries have been a factor but freefall...
Yes, it was a slow start for O'Driscoll and he had a much better bunch of players than Schofield has now but, come on, there's no comparison.
SOD and Schofield should never be mentioned in the same post (whoops, I’ve just done it).
SOD had history before joining us (JR told us all why he went all out to get him and ROK). What has DS done?
Don’t worry, BST, if the Club are daft enough to keep him in post and he (somehow) gets it right, then I’ll hold my hands up. Personally, there’s no way he should be here after the season’s sorry end.
Couldn’t agree more Alan. Any comparison between SOD and DS is preposterous.
SOD had proven L1/L2 pedigree but also a purist football streak that JR admired. Probably based on the 5-0 thrashing that his Bournemouth team handed to us in one L1 game.
The problem was that what was essentially a joint project between JR and SOD was slow to get off the ground and people started getting frustrated. SOD didn’t help himself by neglecting some players in favour of others but he instilled his footballing principles into the squad to such an extent that when it clicked we consistently performed to a very high standard irrespective of team changes.
I’m sure that DS has his own footballing principles- what manager doesn’t - but the lack of passion from the Board, the lack of a JR style vision and DS’s lack of experience means that we’re a million miles away from that time.
None of which changes the fact that, with the most expensively assembled squad in our history up to that point, O'Driscoll managed something very close to relegation form for almost a season.
It was an act of faith that he would be able to turn that round.
And yes, he did have something of a track record, though scarcely an unblemished one.
But more pertinent to my point is his very early career. He took over a side that had finished comfortably in mid table the previous year. He then won 1 of his first 13 games as a manager (not 15 as I'd said before - my mistake there). I wonder how many from this forum would have been screaming that he had no track record to point to, was clearly failing and should be get rid of?
Having read up on Bournemouth on wiki, this is what it says about SOD:
“Sean O'Driscoll was promoted from the coaching staff in place of Mel Machin at the start of the 2000–01 season. In O'Driscoll's first season as manager, Bournemouth narrowly missed out on the Division Two playoffs but were relegated a year later in the new stadium (in the early part of the 2001–02 season, they played their home matches at Dorchester Town's ground while their own stadium was being redeveloped). The board kept faith in O'Driscoll and they were rewarded with promotion via the Division Three playoffs in 2002–03. The club became the first to score five goals at the Millennium Stadium when they beat Lincoln City 5–2 in the 2002–03 Division Three play-off final with goals from Steve Fletcher, Carl Fletcher (2), Stephen Purches and Garreth O'Connor. Under O'Driscoll, Bournemouth narrowly missed out on the play-offs for the 2003–04 and 2004–05 seasons, and just avoided relegation in the 2005–06 season.”
So are they wrong?
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SOD and Schofield should never be mentioned in the same post (whoops, I’ve just done it).
SOD had history before joining us (JR told us all why he went all out to get him and ROK). What has DS done?
Don’t worry, BST, if the Club are daft enough to keep him in post and he (somehow) gets it right, then I’ll hold my hands up. Personally, there’s no way he should be here after the season’s sorry end.
Couldn’t agree more Alan. Any comparison between SOD and DS is preposterous.
SOD had proven L1/L2 pedigree but also a purist football streak that JR admired. Probably based on the 5-0 thrashing that his Bournemouth team handed to us in one L1 game.
The problem was that what was essentially a joint project between JR and SOD was slow to get off the ground and people started getting frustrated. SOD didn’t help himself by neglecting some players in favour of others but he instilled his footballing principles into the squad to such an extent that when it clicked we consistently performed to a very high standard irrespective of team changes.
I’m sure that DS has his own footballing principles- what manager doesn’t - but the lack of passion from the Board, the lack of a JR style vision and DS’s lack of experience means that we’re a million miles away from that time.
None of which changes the fact that, with the most expensively assembled squad in our history up to that point, O'Driscoll managed something very close to relegation form for almost a season.
It was an act of faith that he would be able to turn that round.
And yes, he did have something of a track record, though scarcely an unblemished one.
But more pertinent to my point is his very early career. He took over a side that had finished comfortably in mid table the previous year. He then won 1 of his first 13 games as a manager (not 15 as I'd said before - my mistake there). I wonder how many from this forum would have been screaming that he had no track record to point to, was clearly failing and should be get rid of?
But SOD did have a track record in management before he came to us.
As for what people might have said, that is just conjecture.
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I think the point is everyone has to start somewhere, just because he hasn’t any experience now doesn’t mean much.
Every successful manager out there will have obviously got a job without any experience at some point
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
91.6% says your in a massive minority.
That pole is not Twitter, Face Book, but this DRFC Viking forum.
Ave age will probably be over 50 ( I have no facts on that but think it will be well over 50 ) so long term
die hard supporters in the case of quite a serious number i would think.
Of course it’s a minority, I didn’t suggest otherwise! Was just pointing out there are others who are willing to give him the summer to build his squad
Have you been watching the matches this season dickos.
We have been served up a diet of total dross.
My 10 yr old Grandson has had enough. He has decided Liverpool are his team now not Rovers.
When we had Dave Penney we played fast exciting attacking football, win lose or draw.
Duff did the same at Cheltenham
I could name dozens of rookie managers who did the same.
DS has served us up with a diet of boring insipid dross for 6 months
Don’t insult our intelligence. 91% of our fans are not idiots.
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I think the point is everyone has to start somewhere, just because he hasn’t any experience now doesn’t mean much.
Every successful manager out there will have obviously got a job without any experience at some point
I seem to think that you have made this observation before and we are not debating “where everyone has to start”. Rather it is how, having started, how long it is reasonable to continue to employ someone who is failing. I know it may seem hair-splitting, but it is a fact that the Board appointed him Head Coach, an area in which he had had experience which was not entirely successful. In practice, by default he is effectively the manager and struggling in that role. I would be prepared to concede that if there were a separate manager he probably would have insisted Schofield adapt his coaching to the strengths of the squad. He has proceeded without the benefit of that second opinion which is where you might question the Copps role in all this.
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I think the point is everyone has to start somewhere, just because he hasn’t any experience now doesn’t mean much.
Every successful manager out there will have obviously got a job without any experience at some point
Drfc was not the place for him to try out his fledgling career.
He should have gone to Belper Town or perhaps Ilkeston. No disrespect to either of course. He went in at the deep end with Huddersfield . And it was out of the frying pan into the fire with rovers.
Which I simply do not understand . It makes no sense at all.
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The definiTion of insane behaviour is repeating the same actions over and over when it is obvious that they are failures. That is what annoys about Schofield, everybody can see his tactical schems isn't working but he persists game after game.
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The definiTion of insane behaviour is repeating the same actions over and over when it is obvious that they are failures. That is what annoys about Schofield, everybody can see his tactical schems isn't working but he persists game after game.
As did O'Driscoll, week after week after week throughout 2007, when we were massively under-performing both on results and on entertainment. What I failed to recognise at the time was that it was instilling a mindset in the players. He had the time and support to make results secondary for a while, as he got the players working how he wanted them to?
Could Schofield do that? I've seen flashes, and controversial as it will sound, the second half on Tuesday was one of them. But it's tough - he's dealing with a not very well constructed squad, of which a lot of players are currently not very well. On balance, I'm inclined to give him a go at bringing in his own players and having time to develop his own style. Barring a disaster on injuries next year, if we do have better funds for recruitment this Summer, I doubt we'd go down, even if it turns out he's not capable of O'Driscoll returns.
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He’s not failing just because he’s inexperienced. Nothing against appointing a fresh manager a lot of clubs have done well buy it.
The context DS was appointed in made it a poor choice. Off the back of one inexperienced manager who did a poor job and the terrible season before. Sometimes someone who has been there done it can end the spiral.
In that situation, with the fans already deeply unhappy and desperate to return to L1 this season, appointing a inexperienced manager is a risk we didn’t need to take. Of course whoever we got it might have struggled the same but anyone can say that about anything.
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The definiTion of insane behaviour is repeating the same actions over and over when it is obvious that they are failures. That is what annoys about Schofield, everybody can see his tactical schems isn't working but he persists game after game.
As did O'Driscoll, week after week after week throughout 2007, when we were massively under-performing both on results and on entertainment. What I failed to recognise at the time was that it was instilling a mindset in the players. He had the time and support to make results secondary for a while, as he got the players working how he wanted them to?
Could Schofield do that? I've seen flashes, and controversial as it will sound, the second half on Tuesday was one of them. But it's tough - he's dealing with a not very well constructed squad, of which a lot of players are currently not very well. On balance, I'm inclined to give him a go at bringing in his own players and having time to develop his own style. Barring a disaster on injuries next year, if we do have better funds for recruitment this Summer, I doubt we'd go down, even if it turns out he's not capable of O'Driscoll returns.
You’re entitled to your opinion BST but to say you saw flashes of them on Tues as you put it!!!
Well I was there and if you think that 2nd half gives us hope for next season then you and me are on different planets.
2 attempts at goal in 94 mins. One from a tight angle where he was never going to score ( Hurst ) and A speculative shot from 18yds from Goodman which went wide.
Yes that gives me great hope for next season that does.
When I see him change to a back 4 and put 3 in the middle of the park and 2 up top, and see him do it consistently then there just might be some hope.
Just try 4-3-1-2 for last 3 games. Let’s see what that might achieve. Will he do it. ???
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CR
Stevenage played the very most aggressive, high press that I've ever seen at this level. It was borderline manic. Players sprinting into closing down our players on the ball.
In the first half, our players shite themselves in the face of that. They were physically overwhelmed.
My point was that, with Williams on in the second half, we were passing from the back in a way that nullified that press. We were taking the pressing Stevenage players out of the game and opening up space behind them. Did that lead to chances? No, because we had very little in front. But if you didn't notice that change happen, and think about what it could lead to with a better set of options further up the pitch, I can't really help you. It was as plain as day to me.
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CR
Stevenage played the very most aggressive, high press that I've ever seen at this level. It was borderline manic. Players sprinting into closing down our players on the ball.
In the first half, our players shite themselves in the face of that. They were physically overwhelmed.
My point was that, with Williams on in the second half, we were passing from the back in a way that nullified that press. We were taking the pressing Stevenage players out of the game and opening up space behind them. Did that lead to chances? No, because we had very little in front. But if you didn't notice that change happen, and think about what it could lead to with a better set of options further up the pitch, I can't really help you. It was as plain as day to me.
Well just in case you didn’t notice BST Stevenage didn’t press the same in the second half.
They preserved their energy and let us have the ball in areas where they couldn’t be hurt.
If you didn’t see that then sorry I can’t help you. It was plain as day to me.
But you’re right of course BST. When are you not?
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In fact BST what they did was let our back 3 have the ball particularly Williams and instead closed down on Close and Ravenhill.
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The definiTion of insane behaviour is repeating the same actions over and over when it is obvious that they are failures. That is what annoys about Schofield, everybody can see his tactical schems isn't working but he persists game after game.
As did O'Driscoll, week after week after week throughout 2007, when we were massively under-performing both on results and on entertainment. What I failed to recognise at the time was that it was instilling a mindset in the players. He had the time and support to make results secondary for a while, as he got the players working how he wanted them to?
Could Schofield do that? I've seen flashes, and controversial as it will sound, the second half on Tuesday was one of them. But it's tough - he's dealing with a not very well constructed squad, of which a lot of players are currently not very well. On balance, I'm inclined to give him a go at bringing in his own players and having time to develop his own style. Barring a disaster on injuries next year, if we do have better funds for recruitment this Summer, I doubt we'd go down, even if it turns out he's not capable of O'Driscoll returns.
"I doubt we'd go down". Bloody hell fire, what a low bar to be setting for a club of our stature. I said the same thing on here a few weeks ago for a JOKE; to highlight how far down the nick we'd gone.
As regards time, we don't have any. People are leaving the club in droves at the prospect of him staying.
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Unbelievable that anyone would want to keep DS!!! But I do agree - we keep choosing bad managers! Get rid of the man who brought in DS and who determines strategy / player recruitment…….Coppinger!!!!
That is exactly why the owners and CEO of Doncaster Rovers brought the post in and appointed JC, so that the appalling budget being given and thus the poor squad would be blamed for it and not the ownership. DSwould be quite good, if his budget allowed to have players who can play, he doesn't have that, so he has to cope with and put up with the incompetence being shown week in and week out on the field. I would like to see the difference that "substantial money" will do, but my suspicion is that this is another smokescreen on the managed decline of the football club to replace Rovers at the Eco power. I would guess the club will not be there in another 3 years.
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Unbelievable that anyone would want to keep DS!!! But I do agree - we keep choosing bad managers! Get rid of the man who brought in DS and who determines strategy / player recruitment…….Coppinger!!!!
That is exactly why the owners and CEO of Doncaster Rovers brought the post in and appointed JC, so that the appalling budget being given and thus the poor squad would be blamed for it and not the ownership. DSwould be quite good, if his budget allowed to have players who can play, he doesn't have that, so he has to cope with and put up with the incompetence being shown week in and week out on the field. I would like to see the difference that "substantial money" will do, but my suspicion is that this is another smokescreen on the managed decline of the football club to replace Rovers at the Eco power. I would guess the club will not be there in another 3 years.
Well if we are in National league North not much point in playing in a 15.000 seater stadium is there.
But to suggest that is the plan Barmby Rover then it is indeed Barmy. What is the motive for that do you think?
Not the 1at time, I think it was you, that has posted the same or similar.
Care to elaborate for us. What’s the big plan TB and DB & GB have for the club?
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
91.6% says your in a massive minority.
That pole is not Twitter, Face Book, but this DRFC Viking forum.
Ave age will probably be over 50 ( I have no facts on that but think it will be well over 50 ) so long term
die hard supporters in the case of quite a serious number i would think.
Of course it’s a minority, I didn’t suggest otherwise! Was just pointing out there are others who are willing to give him the summer to build his squad
Have you been watching the matches this season dickos.
We have been served up a diet of total dross.
My 10 yr old Grandson has had enough. He has decided Liverpool are his team now not Rovers.
When we had Dave Penney we played fast exciting attacking football, win lose or draw.
Duff did the same at Cheltenham
I could name dozens of rookie managers who did the same.
DS has served us up with a diet of boring insipid dross for 6 months
Don’t insult our intelligence. 91% of our fans are not idiots.
You’re changing the point, I was only responding to the point people were making about him not having any experience.
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
91.6% says your in a massive minority.
That pole is not Twitter, Face Book, but this DRFC Viking forum.
Ave age will probably be over 50 ( I have no facts on that but think it will be well over 50 ) so long term
die hard supporters in the case of quite a serious number i would think.
Of course it’s a minority, I didn’t suggest otherwise! Was just pointing out there are others who are willing to give him the summer to build his squad
Have you been watching the matches this season dickos.
We have been served up a diet of total dross.
My 10 yr old Grandson has had enough. He has decided Liverpool are his team now not Rovers.
When we had Dave Penney we played fast exciting attacking football, win lose or draw.
Duff did the same at Cheltenham
I could name dozens of rookie managers who did the same.
DS has served us up with a diet of boring insipid dross for 6 months
Don’t insult our intelligence. 91% of our fans are not idiots.
You’re changing the point, I was only responding to the point people were making about him not having any experience.
It was more of a reply to another of your posts rather than this one.
You said plenty of coaches have to start somewhere. Yes they do but many of them play attacking football.
Most of them don’t bore the pants off their fans with total dross on the field.
If you can defend what we have seen in the last 6 months then good on you but thousands of others are not going to put up with watching this rubbish any longer.
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Some selective stats in that last paragraph BST:
O'Driscoll was named boss on 9/9/2006. Rovers lost that day. He then lost two of the following 11 games, winning 2 and drawing 7. He then won 7 of the following 8 games. His first season was also the one we won the JPT. After which, yes, I grant you the team largely packed up and went to the beach.
Schofield's first 12 games: W5 D1 L6 (including the loss to Kings Lynn). Form since: P18 W4 D3 L11. Exclude that block of 3 wins in February and we've been in freefall. Injuries have been a factor but freefall...
Yes, it was a slow start for O'Driscoll and he had a much better bunch of players than Schofield has now but, come on, there's no comparison.
I'm talking about his start as Bournemouth manager. My apologies if that wasn't clear.
Ah, ok.
It's turning into an interesting debate this. Maybe Saunders offers a more hopeful parallel. Schofield's record in results terms is very close to Saunders's record for the 2011/12 season. And the team was similarly shambolic.
Of course 2011/12 involved the infamous 'experiment' but it was just as awful as now. To his credit, Saunders turned it around in the close season with some shrewd recruitment and commitment to an effective style of play (even if it wasn't particularly easy on the eye).
Not an easy one for the Board.
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In fact BST what they did was let our back 3 have the ball particularly Williams and instead closed down on Close and Ravenhill.
CR.
I don't like to make claims that aren't based in fact, so I've just gone back and watched the first 20 minutes of Tuesday's second half again. There were at least 5 occasions where Williams had the ball played to him around the edge of our box and was faced wuth someone sprinting in on him at full pelt. Three times that player launched himself off his feet as Williams played a short pass.
If you're going to make claims, and dish personal abuse, can I ask you to check your facts first please?
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Some selective stats in that last paragraph BST:
O'Driscoll was named boss on 9/9/2006. Rovers lost that day. He then lost two of the following 11 games, winning 2 and drawing 7. He then won 7 of the following 8 games. His first season was also the one we won the JPT. After which, yes, I grant you the team largely packed up and went to the beach.
Schofield's first 12 games: W5 D1 L6 (including the loss to Kings Lynn). Form since: P18 W4 D3 L11. Exclude that block of 3 wins in February and we've been in freefall. Injuries have been a factor but freefall...
Yes, it was a slow start for O'Driscoll and he had a much better bunch of players than Schofield has now but, come on, there's no comparison.
I'm talking about his start as Bournemouth manager. My apologies if that wasn't clear.
Ah, ok.
It's turning into an interesting debate this. Maybe Saunders offers a more hopeful parallel. Schofield's record in results terms is very close to Saunders's record for the 2011/12 season. And the team was similarly shambolic.
Of course 2011/12 involved the infamous 'experiment' but it was just as awful as now. To his credit, Saunders turned it around in the close season with some shrewd recruitment and commitment to an effective style of play (even if it wasn't particularly easy on the eye).
Not an easy one for the Board.
Difference with Saunders was as you say the madness of the experiment but also in the championship gravity is always against us. That buys managers a lot of credit.
The opposite is true in L2
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Some selective stats in that last paragraph BST:
O'Driscoll was named boss on 9/9/2006. Rovers lost that day. He then lost two of the following 11 games, winning 2 and drawing 7. He then won 7 of the following 8 games. His first season was also the one we won the JPT. After which, yes, I grant you the team largely packed up and went to the beach.
Schofield's first 12 games: W5 D1 L6 (including the loss to Kings Lynn). Form since: P18 W4 D3 L11. Exclude that block of 3 wins in February and we've been in freefall. Injuries have been a factor but freefall...
Yes, it was a slow start for O'Driscoll and he had a much better bunch of players than Schofield has now but, come on, there's no comparison.
I'm talking about his start as Bournemouth manager. My apologies if that wasn't clear.
Ah, ok.
It's turning into an interesting debate this. Maybe Saunders offers a more hopeful parallel. Schofield's record in results terms is very close to Saunders's record for the 2011/12 season. And the team was similarly shambolic.
Of course 2011/12 involved the infamous 'experiment' but it was just as awful as now. To his credit, Saunders turned it around in the close season with some shrewd recruitment and commitment to an effective style of play (even if it wasn't particularly easy on the eye).
Not an easy one for the Board.
I’m not sure how bst was talking about SoDs start as Bournmouth manager as he clearly mentions the loss to Kings Lynn.
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In fact BST what they did was let our back 3 have the ball particularly Williams and instead closed down on Close and Ravenhill.
CR.
I don't like to make claims that aren't based in fact, so I've just gone back and watched the first 20 minutes of Tuesday's second half again. There were at least 5 occasions where Williams had the ball played to him around the edge of our box and was faced wuth someone sprinting in on him at full pelt. Three times that player launched himself off his feet as Williams played a short pass.
If you're going to make claims, and dish personal abuse, can I ask you to check your facts first please?
Excuse me where have I used any personal abuse.
I used exactly the same words you used on me. I think I would call it sarcasm and I was retuning it.
Personal abuse well that’s a good one.
Your arrogance is quite unbelievable BST. You’re never wrong whether it’s politics or football.
Quite unbelievable.
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CR.
Go back and have a look at the video of that match.
Then tell me if your snide little jibe about me never being wrong is warranted on this issue.
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It seems there are plenty of other folk who are of the same opinion as me,
Maybe the ones who want him gone are much more vocal about it but it does seem on this thread all the ones who strongly want him gone are the same names that post about it all day everyday, but the ones wanting to give him a go are people who don’t post all the time about it.
91.6% says your in a massive minority.
That pole is not Twitter, Face Book, but this DRFC Viking forum.
Ave age will probably be over 50 ( I have no facts on that but think it will be well over 50 ) so long term
die hard supporters in the case of quite a serious number i would think.
Of course it’s a minority, I didn’t suggest otherwise! Was just pointing out there are others who are willing to give him the summer to build his squad
Have you been watching the matches this season dickos.
We have been served up a diet of total dross.
My 10 yr old Grandson has had enough. He has decided Liverpool are his team now not Rovers.
When we had Dave Penney we played fast exciting attacking football, win lose or draw.
Duff did the same at Cheltenham
I could name dozens of rookie managers who did the same.
DS has served us up with a diet of boring insipid dross for 6 months
Don’t insult our intelligence. 91% of our fans are not idiots.
You’re changing the point, I was only responding to the point people were making about him not having any experience.
It was more of a reply to another of your posts rather than this one.
You said plenty of coaches have to start somewhere. Yes they do but many of them play attacking football.
Most of them don’t bore the pants off their fans with total dross on the field.
If you can defend what we have seen in the last 6 months then good on you but thousands of others are not going to put up with watching this rubbish any longer.
I don’t think either of us know what type of football they played in their first 6 months as a manager.
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Stevenage clearly continued to press in the second half, we just dealt with it a bit better. And yes Williams helped with that as he made quicker passes rather than dwelling on the ball like Nelson did
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CR.
Go back and have a look at the video of that match.
Then tell me if your snide little jibe about me never being wrong is warranted on this issue.
Billy they didn’t press us the same on the 2nd half. To do that they would have needed to all been on drugs.
I was there and I know what I saw.
Yes we were better but only because I thought Stevenage were running out of gas.
Shall we agree to disagree. I really don’t want to get into a long running spat with you.
We are all Rovers aren’t we. :)
I think we should try to be civil with each other.
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SOD and Schofield should never be mentioned in the same post (whoops, I’ve just done it).
SOD had history before joining us (JR told us all why he went all out to get him and ROK). What has DS done?
Don’t worry, BST, if the Club are daft enough to keep him in post and he (somehow) gets it right, then I’ll hold my hands up. Personally, there’s no way he should be here after the season’s sorry end.
Couldn’t agree more Alan. Any comparison between SOD and DS is preposterous.
SOD had proven L1/L2 pedigree but also a purist football streak that JR admired. Probably based on the 5-0 thrashing that his Bournemouth team handed to us in one L1 game.
The problem was that what was essentially a joint project between JR and SOD was slow to get off the ground and people started getting frustrated. SOD didn’t help himself by neglecting some players in favour of others but he instilled his footballing principles into the squad to such an extent that when it clicked we consistently performed to a very high standard irrespective of team changes.
I’m sure that DS has his own footballing principles- what manager doesn’t - but the lack of passion from the Board, the lack of a JR style vision and DS’s lack of experience means that we’re a million miles away from that time.
None of which changes the fact that, with the most expensively assembled squad in our history up to that point, O'Driscoll managed something very close to relegation form for almost a season.
It was an act of faith that he would be able to turn that round.
And yes, he did have something of a track record, though scarcely an unblemished one.
But more pertinent to my point is his very early career. He took over a side that had finished comfortably in mid table the previous year. He then won 1 of his first 13 games as a manager (not 15 as I'd said before - my mistake there). I wonder how many from this forum would have been screaming that he had no track record to point to, was clearly failing and should be get rid of?
So it wasn't an act of blind faith to stick with SoD after his underwhelming start here? Because as you go on to mention, he had a similarly poor start in his previous job as a manager, before getting his style in place and having a sustained spell of success playing with that style. So we stuck with him based on evidence. And we were proved right to do so.
You're contradicting yourself within the same comment to try to defend this comparison you've made. I'm not sure why this is the hill you've chosen to die on. You are just incorrect in this particular case.
It's blind faith to stick with DS now, because there is no previous evidence to back up our hope that he'll turn things around. I'm sceptical, but I do hope he can.
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RD.
I realise that opinions are entrenched here, but please do me the courtesy of listening to my logic.
Yes, O'Driscoll DID turn round his first season at Bournemouth after a very poor first 1/3rd of a season.
The underperformance at the Rovers was on a different scale. It went on for very nearly 40 league games, during which time we had poured money into the squad.
What I'm saying is that, by December 2007, a very large number of fans had had it to the back teeth with O'Driscoll (although, strangely, not many will now put up their hands and admit that). And despite some selective memories in here, the football in that period was, for the majority of matches, abjectly lacking in entertainment. The moreso when you consider the wealth of talent he had available.
And there's a deeper point. Not the patience that WE showed in him. What if the Bournemouth board had given him the heave-ho after that dreadful first third of a season?
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More conjecture in that post bst.
You say that a large number of fans wanted SoD out but won’t admit that now.
Is that a fact and have you any evidence to back that up.
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More conjecture in that post bst.
You say that a large number of fans wanted SoD out but won’t admit that now.
Is that a fact and have you any evidence to back that up.
I don’t have any evidence other than my memory but he’s not wrong. O’Driscoll was extremely unpopular for quite a while early on in his tenure.
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I was one of the people calling for SOD to go in Autumn 2007. I definitely wasn’t alone.
I’m not sure that can serve as a blanket justification that we can never dispense with another underperforming manager though.
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RD.
I realise that opinions are entrenched here, but please do me the courtesy of listening to my logic.
Yes, O'Driscoll DID turn round his first season at Bournemouth after a very poor first 1/3rd of a season.
The underperformance at the Rovers was on a different scale. It went on for very nearly 40 league games, during which time we had poured money into the squad.
What I'm saying is that, by December 2007, a very large number of fans had had it to the back teeth with O'Driscoll (although, strangely, not many will now put up their hands and admit that). And despite some selective memories in here, the football in that period was, for the majority of matches, abjectly lacking in entertainment. The moreso when you consider the wealth of talent he had available.
And there's a deeper point. Not the patience that WE showed in him. What if the Bournemouth board had given him the heave-ho after that dreadful first third of a season?
Sorry BST but the only point I'm taking issue with is your choice to compare SoD and DS. Based on the points that I've previously raised, and even those that you've raised, it's a completely flawed comparison. In fact, I don't think there's any comparison to be made at all. The rest of what you're saying is irrelevant to this particular point, in my opinion.
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RD. So you're going to ignore the point about O'Driscoll's awful start to his managerial career? Fair enough. Your call.
By the way, O'Driscoll's "sustained spell of success" before joining us is rather mythologised.
He took over a club that had been in Tier 3 for a decade, oscillating from 8th to 20th place.
He got them relegated in his second season.
He won promotion via the playoffs after dropping out of the automatic slots with an insipid end to the season with a squad including Stock, Hayter, Carl Fletcher, Steve Fletcher, Marcus Browning (signed for a fee that we wouldn't match until we bought Billy Sharp), Warren Feeney, Wade Elliott and a good few more solid Tier 3 pros.
After that, he had two top ten and one bottom ten finish in League 1 before joining us, leaving Bournemouth pretty much exactly where they were when he took over.
He had a reasonable record, but scarcely one of unbroken success against the odds. As I say, there was nothing to guarantee that he'd turn things round after the dreadful run in 2007. It required faith and patience from the Board.
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More conjecture in that post bst.
You say that a large number of fans wanted SoD out but won’t admit that now.
Is that a fact and have you any evidence to back that up.
Come on, you know that BST is correct. I seem to remember a 0-0 at home against Yeovil being particularly dull.
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More conjecture in that post bst.
You say that a large number of fans wanted SoD out but won’t admit that now.
Is that a fact and have you any evidence to back that up.
Come on, you know that BST is correct. I seem to remember a 0-0 at home against Yeovil being particularly dull.
With hindsight, perhaps he might have a point, depending of course what a high number is deemed to be.
I would think that even though we have smaller attendances now than when SoD was manager that there are more people wanting the manager gone now.
I don’t have any evidence to back that up though.
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In fairness to the SOD argument I’m certain the calls for change are louder now than then. However had SOD come in after a couple of desperate years and started like he did maybe it would be a closer run thing.
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I've posted before that I wanted SOD to go forth back to Bournemouth, and so did many others. We were playing boring turgid footy for too long in his early Rovers tenure.
Only when he got his style over to a group of players who could implement it, did we prosper.
The current situation with Schofield is remarkably similar, and despite you lot jumping up and down with apoplectic rage, it looks like he'll be allowed to have a go.
So button up and enjoy the ride.
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I've posted before that I wanted SOD to go forth back to Bournemouth, and so did many others. We were playing boring turgid footy for too long in his early Rovers tenure.
Only when he got his style over to a group of players who could implement it, did we prosper.
The current situation with Schofield is remarkably similar, and despite you lot jumping up and down with apoplectic rage, it looks like he'll be allowed to have a go.
So button up and enjoy the ride.
There'll be nobody left in the stadium to enjoy the ride.
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RD. So you're going to ignore the point about O'Driscoll's awful start to his managerial career? Fair enough. Your call.
By the way, O'Driscoll's "sustained spell of success" before joining us is rather mythologised.
He took over a club that had been in Tier 3 for a decade, oscillating from 8th to 20th place.
He got them relegated in his second season.
He won promotion via the playoffs after dropping out of the automatic slots with an insipid end to the season with a squad including Stock, Hayter, Carl Fletcher, Steve Fletcher, Marcus Browning (signed for a fee that we wouldn't match until we bought Billy Sharp), Warren Feeney, Wade Elliott and a good few more solid Tier 3 pros.
After that, he had two top ten and one bottom ten finish in League 1 before joining us, leaving Bournemouth pretty much exactly where they were when he took over.
He had a reasonable record, but scarcely one of unbroken success against the odds. As I say, there was nothing to guarantee that he'd turn things round after the dreadful run in 2007. It required faith and patience from the Board.
So DS's 9 games of almost total failure as a manager prior to joining us are comparable to SoD's several seasons of successfully (and admittedly slowly) implementing an attractive brand of football, which includes taking us apart in such a manner that our owner earmarked him as our future manager and then headhunted him at the earliest possible moment?
Ok then...
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"No one else like me then?"
Well, after four pages, go on then I'll stick my hand up CiM... I like you...
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"No one else like me then?"
Well, after four pages, go on then I'll stick my hand up CiM... I like you...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:'
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I knew CIM when he used to go in the South Stand. I believe he lives abroad now.
Yes, he is a likable guy.
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Yes, you are right on all three counts SS.