Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Ryaldinhio on May 17, 2024, 06:40:33 pm
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Lawlor and Jones on books
Ben Bottomley released. TLT sounds like he won't be returning from early reports and I doubt GM will hang about to find out any further.
GM already mentioned in his end of season interview that Kyle Letheren has been working since January identifying targets.
What are the thoughts?
IMO if Jones is happy to be back up I would keep him. Capable when needed. I did notice however when he came on after TLT red card that he wasn't listening to Woods and the others at the back wanting to continue playing short. This was either a sign that he doesn't train enough in the first team set up and play OR he is petulant and won't listen to the captain of the club. Either way not great.
Lawlor, seemed a quick signing last year, remember much surprise over it being the first signing. Either it was always planned for him to be 2nd choice and move Jones on OR lawlor didn't live up to expectation. I would say also a decent back up if willing to accept that.
To be honest there isn't a great difference between the two as a back up so for me would probably come down to commercial and I assume that would lean in Jones' favour.
I am fully expecting us to sign either a permanent or a season long loan No1. Then move on either Jones/Lawlor and also sign a 3rd choice or promote a youth keeper.
Trust in GM, he got TLT near on deadline day and none of us knew much about the lad!
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I could be, and probably am, wrong on this but I got the feeling that the Lawlor deal was already way down the line when McCann arrived and he just opted to go with it. Same with the Wood deal (although that one turned out well).
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Lawlor was the most bizarre signing of the last few years.
Senior goalie who was the reserve for 2nd tier Scottish side expected to be no.1 for a League 2 promotion team… nuts.
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And we had seen Lawlor before, his strengths and weaknesses. It was immediately apparent in his time away from us that he hadn’t changed an iota.
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If get the the Wrong keeper in next season and end up having to draft in another loan midway throug the season ….it will be yet another L2 for another season . TLT was partly responsible for the upturn in form when he arrived and had he been here from the start , we could have had an automatic slot and not a playoff place !!
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And we had seen Lawlor before, his strengths and weaknesses. It was immediately apparent in his time away from us that he hadn’t changed an iota.
That's not true.
I thought he was worse this time.
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But he can kick the ball miles
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Easssssssssy for Dennis.
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A good, no, very good keeper is essential to having a successful team.
Louis is a decent Lg2 keeper, no more no less imo. We don’t want decent we want better than decent if we want to be playing Lg1 football with aspirations to go higher.
Lawlor, I don’t know where his signing ‘came from’ except it had ‘Desperation written’ all over it.
So no TLT next year (good luck to him in the future) but I trust GM & his management team will find a keeper equally as good if not better, be that loan or whatever.
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I’d get rid of both I’m afraid.
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I’d get rid of both I’m afraid.
And then sign 3 keepers????????
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Taking it that GM won’t be getting rid of either before their contracts expire, who does he play as first choice, Lawlor or Jones? For me Lawlor starts. Bringing in another keeper without getting rid of one or the other doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me.
COYR
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Taking it that GM won’t be getting rid of either before their contracts expire, who does he play as first choice, Lawlor or Jones? For me Lawlor starts. Bringing in another keeper without getting rid of one or the other doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me.
COYR
It’s simple. Loan Jones out to put himself in the shop window for when his contract expires.
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From what I've heard LJ is getting rapidly disillusioned with being second fiddle.
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Lawlors signing was the mistake of the season and I said as much at the time. Agreed with Jones as a number 2. We need a new number 1. Bottomly has basically been replaced by Oram as number 3. 4 keepers would be a mess. 3 keepers is spot on.
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From what I've heard LJ is getting rapidly disillusioned with being second fiddle.
Well, he needs to go and knock on the managers door then!! And see if he can be transfer listed. Hope he's got a good agent also?
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GK has to be the first position on the list after seeing how much better we were once that was addressed.
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From what I've heard LJ is getting rapidly disillusioned with being second fiddle.
Off to the national league then because he’s not first choice for anyone in league 2.
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GK has to be the first position on the list after seeing how much better we were once that was addressed.
Can’t see any obvious permanent options so might be later on in the window if it’s another loan. Which IMO is the more sensible thing to do.
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From what I've heard LJ is getting rapidly disillusioned with being second fiddle.
Might end up being third fiddle!
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It's got to be a loan from a Premier League or Championship club, as in Sam Johnstone, Seny Dieng, and TLT.
I've not seen anyone in League 2 this season that's inspired me at all.
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It's got to be a loan from a Premier League or Championship club, as in Sam Johnstone, Seny Dieng, and TLT.
I've not seen anyone in League 2 this season that's inspired me at all.
Agreed.
We’ve got a good relationship with spurs apparently. Wonder if they’ve got a decent keeper available for loan?
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It's got to be a loan from a Premier League or Championship club, as in Sam Johnstone, Seny Dieng, and TLT.
I've not seen anyone in League 2 this season that's inspired me at all.
Agreed.
We’ve got a good relationship with spurs apparently. Wonder if they’ve got a decent keeper available for loan?
Josh Keeley Spurs youth keeper has been on loan to Barnet the second half of last season so they’d probably loan him out to league 2 level. No idea whether he’s any good.
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From what I've heard LJ is getting rapidly disillusioned with being second fiddle.
He ummed and ahhed last season about signing the new deal because of that. Then we signed Lawlor ahead of him, I would have been annoyed.
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It's got to be a loan from a Premier League or Championship club, as in Sam Johnstone, Seny Dieng, and TLT.
I've not seen anyone in League 2 this season that's inspired me at all.
Agreed.
We’ve got a good relationship with spurs apparently. Wonder if they’ve got a decent keeper available for loan?
Josh Keeley Spurs youth keeper has been on loan to Barnet the second half of last season so they’d probably loan him out to league 2 level. No idea whether he’s any good.
Spurs extended his contract after his progress at Barnet. Irish u21 international too.
Can’t find anything else on him but he’s obviously got that TLT like composure.
https://x.com/owenthfc__/status/1673036539415207938?s=46
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From what I've heard LJ is getting rapidly disillusioned with being second fiddle.
He ummed and ahhed last season about signing the new deal because of that. Then we signed Lawlor ahead of him, I would have been annoyed.
To be fair he's had more than enough chances to have claimed the #1 shirt by now. Wellens literally gave him number 1. He's fine as back up but if he's not then its time to go.
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From what I've heard LJ is getting rapidly disillusioned with being second fiddle.
He ummed and ahhed last season about signing the new deal because of that. Then we signed Lawlor ahead of him, I would have been annoyed.
To be fair he's had more than enough chances to have claimed the #1 shirt by now. Wellens literally gave him number 1. He's fine as back up but if he's not then its time to go.
Probably best for his career to start fresh, like has been mentioned, loan him out then let him go once his contracts expired. Lawlor as second choice, Oram as third choice is fine.
The only thing with Lawlor on the bench how do we meet the homegrown rules? Keep Faulkner around and not loaned out or a Kuleya, Goodman or Flint on the bench?
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Isn't part of keeping Jones a rule about home grown players and having one ex academy player in the squad?
He's just not dominant enough to be our number one yet, we can't wait what's likely a few more years for him to get there. He's a few years older than TLT but levels away.
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I know keepers mature later but he will be 26 in October and has played 65 first team games for us.
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Kieran O’hara would be fine for us. At Killie, think he’s out of contract.
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Don’t think Jones is that far off l standard if not there already. Yeah he’s got a weakness or two but that’s true over most at this level.
We just saw the difference having a keeper a level or two above can do.
If he’s not happy to be a nr 2 who pushes the 1st choice then we need to let him go. Wouldn’t be surprised if he makes a decent career at it though maybe after a step down like the lads at Chesterfield.
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Wouldn’t surprise me if it was maybe Tommy Simkin - highly rated England u20 keeper at Stoke. They have big plans for him.
Spent the 1st half of last season on loan at Solihull so Sbarra link there. Looked like he did well. Good distribution and shot stopping stats.
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If we do bring in a loan keeper, then I don’t know how you explain having Jones and Lawlor both on the books. Weird decision by McCann to sign Lawlor.
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If we do bring in a loan keeper, then I don’t know how you explain having Jones and Lawlor both on the books. Weird decision by McCann to sign Lawlor.
To be (Blunt) he might have had no choice
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If we do bring in a loan keeper, then I don’t know how you explain having Jones and Lawlor both on the books. Weird decision by McCann to sign Lawlor.
Re-signed Jones last summer too.
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Might let jones have a year loan in conference as a number 1 and lawler as no2 here
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If we do bring in a loan keeper, then I don’t know how you explain having Jones and Lawlor both on the books. Weird decision by McCann to sign Lawlor.
There's different ways of handling contracted players. Now, I was as surprised as everyone when he re-signed Lawlor having already relegated him to no 2 in his previous spell but, maybe he just got in some insurance at little cost.
Now of course having two on the books when we need an upgrade us not ideal but given they're under contract, you can put the ball in their court whilst not burning our bridges during the search for a better option.
Which of them will be knocking on McCann's door and asking where they stand? Do they want to compete and play or just be happy to sit on their contract?
If they're not happy then I'm sure McCann will offer to help them find a new club.
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Where they stand?
They’re goalkeepers, they should know where to stand lol
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If we do bring in a loan keeper, then I don’t know how you explain having Jones and Lawlor both on the books. Weird decision by McCann to sign Lawlor.
Re-signed Jones last summer too.
Jones I can understand due to the homegrown player requirement and the potential he could improve. Lawlor signing was baffling at the time though and only looks more so now.
Struggling to think of the last permanent keeper we had who really inspired confidence. Ross Turnbull maybe?
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Did Lawlor do much wrong before injury? He certainly started the season well.
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Did Lawlor do much wrong before injury? He certainly started the season well.
Agreed, didn't think he'd done much wrong. Specifically remember the first game of the season where he kept us in it for long periods.
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He didn’t do a great deal wrong, and for me he’s a good number two. It’s his strength on balls into the box that worries me, he’s rooted to his line and it seems to cause panic at the back. Similar with Jones. It’s harsh to say but we need better if we’re to challenge at the top. TLT provided that. It sounds like we are making progress towards acquiring a new keeper and for me that’s a real positive as it’s a real priority. We await further details…
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If we start the season with Lawler and Jones then it should be Lawler for me, but I hope we bring in better.
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If we start the season with Lawler and Jones then it should be Lawler for me, but I hope we bring in better.
To be honest I'd find it hard to choose between them.
Jones is a good shot-stopper and his distribution is generally good, but his positioning can be questionable and both he and Lawlor scare me to death at crosses into the box. They are both also too ponderous and lacking in composure when trying to play out from the back, so we lose that option as an outlet (which was one of TLT's strong attributes).
You can just seem to sense that the defence are nervous with either of these two in goal, whereas they all looked confident and calm in front of TLT.
So in summary we definitely need an upgrade if we want to challenge at the top of the table.
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The mindset of the Club is changing (or has already changed) in that we’re no longer aiming to be ‘in and around the play-off’s’, but we are aiming to be Champions.
That is a different culture altogether and it then brings a change in player/squad criteria. GM is changing/tweaking to suit a sustained drive for the top spot and if we miss out by 1 or 2 positions, so be it.
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Both Jones and Lawlor when they played at the start of the season were playing behind a back 4 that wasn’t at its best. The back 4 didn’t improve much until Woods returned from injury and gained match fitness, which I believe coincided with the run of good form we showed at the back end of the season.
COYR
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Alternatively the back 4 weren’t at their best because they weren’t being marshalled from behind by the keeper??
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My memory may not be the best, but I do not recall McCann ever praising Jones for his performances. You might expect there to have been games when the phrase that “the goalkeeper kept us in the game” would feature in manager’s comments, but I do not recall having heard him say this in relation to Jones.
Lawlor who was McCann’s first choice has the edge in athletic ability and compared with Jones does not seem obviously short of general confidence. When he was here first he seemed particularly vulnerable to long range shots. Despite seeming physically capable of getting to the ball he did seem to time his saves properly.
It is unfortunate that we lost Lawlor to injury and had to revert to Jones and couldn’t bring in a loanee because Jones was “experienced”. So McCann was stuck with him and no alternative. That he brought in a loanee in the January window illustrates his recognition of the weakness in that position.
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My memory may not be the best, but I do not recall McCann ever praising Jones for his performances.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-boss-hopes-goalkeepers-luck-is-changing-and-praises-world-class-save-4338896
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Alternatively the back 4 weren’t at their best because they weren’t being marshalled from behind by the keeper??
Nail on the head.
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My memory may not be the best, but I do not recall McCann ever praising Jones for his performances.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-boss-hopes-goalkeepers-luck-is-changing-and-praises-world-class-save-4338896
Spooky. Anyone notice the advertising board behind him with the logo TLT?
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Did Lawlor do much wrong before injury? He certainly started the season well.
I’ve been thinking this for quite some time. I’m sure he put in some man of the match performances. Whilst he wasn’t as good as TLT I don’t quite get the hate for him.
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Did Lawlor do much wrong before injury? He certainly started the season well.
I’ve been thinking this for quite some time. I’m sure he put in some man of the match performances. Whilst he wasn’t as good as TLT I don’t quite get the hate for him.
I don't see hate on this thread but reasonable assessments of his strengths and weaknesses, same for Jones.
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If we start the season with Lawler and Jones then it should be Lawler for me, but I hope we bring in better.
My thoughts exactly.
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Where they stand?
They’re goalkeepers, they should know where to stand lol
What about Dahlberg at Hillsb...
Withdrawn!
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Where they stand?
They’re goalkeepers, they should know where to stand lol
Apparently Dahlberg didn’t.
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If you want to win a league, neither goalkeeper is good enough. We need two, the pair of them need to go.
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Did Lawlor do much wrong before injury? He certainly started the season well.
I’ve been thinking this for quite some time. I’m sure he put in some man of the match performances. Whilst he wasn’t as good as TLT I don’t quite get the hate for him.
I don't see hate on this thread but reasonable assessments of his strengths and weaknesses, same for Jones.
There were a small group at Mansfield who were intent on ripping Lawlor to bits, it was embarrassing-myself and a few other fans told them to pack it in
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I think it's fair to say that both Lawlor and Jones are good goalkeepers, but the question is "would we have got to 5th place with either of them in goal?". We will never know, but personally, I doubt it. TLT had that extra quality we will need next season if we want the top slot and I suspect most of us know it. If TLT was to return (no matter how unlikely) wouldn't we all feel much safer and happier?
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I’m with Sammy we aren’t winning the league with either of them in goal.
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But we won the league 1 with Woods in the sticks. I’d argue he was worse than both of our current keepers.
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Been linked with Joe Whitworth of Crystal Palace, highly rated youngster coming through.....don't know how much truth is in it.
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But we won the league 1 with Woods in the sticks. I’d argue he was worse than both of our current keepers.
He was never popular personally like Jones seems to be. Also, considering how many of our wins in that season were narrow ones, Woods would have had to have been incredibly lucky if he really was as bad as you think. (I always thought he was OK and Saunders must have rated him.)
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But we won the league 1 with Woods in the sticks. I’d argue he was worse than both of our current keepers.
He was never popular personally like Jones seems to be. Also, considering how many of our wins in that season were narrow ones, Woods would have had to have been incredibly lucky if he really was as bad as you think. (I always thought he was OK and Saunders must have rated him.)
You've got me puzzled here, FR. If it was just an opinion that you think Woods was better than Jones, then OK, but you've absolutely slaughtered Jones on here all season, then you come out and say that Woods was OK, when most people rated him as being very poor.
Regarding the wins being narrow, have you forgotten who that back 4 were? Even I could have done well behind that defence.
Well, maybe not, but you know what I mean.
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But we won the league 1 with Woods in the sticks. I’d argue he was worse than both of our current keepers.
He was never popular personally like Jones seems to be. Also, considering how many of our wins in that season were narrow ones, Woods would have had to have been incredibly lucky if he really was as bad as you think. (I always thought he was OK and Saunders must have rated him.)
You've got me puzzled here, FR. If it was just an opinion that you think Woods was better than Jones, then OK, but you've absolutely slaughtered Jones on here all season, then you come out and say that Woods was OK, when most people rated him as being very poor.
Regarding the wins being narrow, have you forgotten who that back 4 were? Even I could have done well behind that defence.
Well, maybe not, but you know what I mean.
I take your point about consistency, but I did genuinely think Woods was OK. I remember him as being very athletic. I rated a lot of the loan keepers we had more recently much more than most people on here too, and have kept quiet about them when others have criticised them. Perhaps I admire an adventurous spirit in footballers and with goalkeepers perhaps you can be deceived into thinking they are better than they really are. Going back to Harry Gregg we used to think he was often a bit crazy coming out of his goal much more often that was “fashionable” at the time, but he set the trend and was great to watch.
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Garry Woods was average at best, Flynn knew that, that's why he played Sullivan towards the end of the season to make sure we won the promotion back to the championship.
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But we won the league 1 with Woods in the sticks. I’d argue he was worse than both of our current keepers.
He was never popular personally like Jones seems to be. Also, considering how many of our wins in that season were narrow ones, Woods would have had to have been incredibly lucky if he really was as bad as you think. (I always thought he was OK and Saunders must have rated him.)
You've got me puzzled here, FR. If it was just an opinion that you think Woods was better than Jones, then OK, but you've absolutely slaughtered Jones on here all season, then you come out and say that Woods was OK, when most people rated him as being very poor.
Regarding the wins being narrow, have you forgotten who that back 4 were? Even I could have done well behind that defence.
Well, maybe not, but you know what I mean.
I take your point about consistency, but I did genuinely think Woods was OK. I remember him as being very athletic. I rated a lot of the loan keepers we had more recently much more than most people on here too, and have kept quiet about them when others have criticised them. Perhaps I admire an adventurous spirit in footballers and with goalkeepers perhaps you can be deceived into thinking they are better than they really are. Going back to Harry Gregg we used to think he was often a bit crazy coming out of his goal much more often that was “fashionable” at the time, but he set the trend and was great to watch.
In my whole lifetime, Harry Gregg was the second best keeper in the world after Gordon Banks.
His athleticism was astonishing, especially when he somehow kept out shots that were heading straight for the top corner.