Is Michael Phelps the greatest Olympian of all time?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Don't forget De Coubertain himself, who not only created the modern Olympic Games but was a gold medallist himself.

[mjdgreg]

To go back to your previous Wikipedia post. As you feel Ali greatness lies in his refusal to be drafted (for which his punishment was having his boxing licence taken away), which Olympic medallist (captain of his country's team) was a pacifist & conscientious objector in WWI (for which the punishment could be a firing squad), serving instead in the Ambulance Corps from 1914-18? He was also heavily involved in deciding government policy on the home front during WWII.

The author of several books on pacifism and disarmament, he relaxed that view with the rise of fascism which he saw as a greater danger, he was also a supporter of educational development and policy for the greater benefit of all.

Despite holding several home ministerial positions his greatest achievements were his involvement in the creation of both the League of Nations and the United Nations - for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He ended his political career as president of the UNESCO council of sport.

Plenty of clues in there, shouldn't take you long to find him on google - and educate yourself.

Any fool knows that you are talking about leftie Phillip Noel-Baker. Why you mention this person is a complete mystery to me. How you form the opinion that I think Ali's greatness lies in his refusal to be drafted is also a complete mystery to me. You seem to inhabit a weird parallel universe where coherent logical arguments are nowhere to be seen. All you do is come up with meaningless pointless posts. Seems  you are another one that was put straight on the Cow and Gate.

[mjdgreg]

Again, you seem to think anyone cares. And is that pathetic statistic your idea of a measure of 'success'? PMSL.

I agree that none of your threads ever going above 100 views is a pathetic statistic and is a very poor measure of 'success'. You are obviously an abject failure at stimulating interesting debate. You would do well to learn from me and take on board my pugnacious debating style and try to stick to facts instead of trying to provoke an argument with incoherent points of view.

[neilfinne]

Fun fact. Australia (sports-mad country) has won less medals than Yorkshire (whippet-mad county) at the Olympics this year.

[mjdgreg]

Just trying to join in at your level.

I'm sorry, but based on your previous ramblings I don't see any possible way that you could get anywhere near my level. Take a step back. Learn from the way that I have previously demolished the reputations of BST, LJMonk, Wilts Rover etc and do yourself a favour and retire gracelessly from the debate before you find yourself being added to my victims list (if it's not too late already).

[wilts rover]

To go back to your previous Wikipedia post. As you feel Ali greatness lies in his refusal to be drafted (for which his punishment was having his boxing licence taken away), which Olympic medallist (captain of his country's team) was a pacifist & conscientious objector in WWI (for which the punishment could be a firing squad), serving instead in the Ambulance Corps from 1914-18? He was also heavily involved in deciding government policy on the home front during WWII.

The author of several books on pacifism and disarmament, he relaxed that view with the rise of fascism which he saw as a greater danger, he was also a supporter of educational development and policy for the greater benefit of all.

Despite holding several home ministerial positions his greatest achievements were his involvement in the creation of both the League of Nations and the United Nations - for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He ended his political career as president of the UNESCO council of sport.

Plenty of clues in there, shouldn't take you long to find him on google - and educate yourself.

Any fool knows that you are talking about leftie Phillip Noel-Baker. Why you mention this person is a complete mystery to me. How you form the opinion that I think Ali's greatness lies in his refusal to be drafted is also a complete mystery to me. You seem to inhabit a weird parallel universe where coherent logical arguments are nowhere to be seen. All you do is come up with meaningless pointless posts. Seems  you are another one that was put straight on the Cow and Gate.

Sorry I appear to have overestimated your powers of intelligence and analysis so I shall make it simpler for you. In a previous post you said that the sign of a great Olympian is not what they do at the Olympics - but what they do and who they influence in their wider life. Philip Noel-Baker is one of only two Olympians to have won a Nobel Peace Prize, the other wasn't Ali. Not only did Noel-Baker influence the UN, he set it up. Even your little brain might consider being involved in the three greatest fights in history (sic) slightly less impressive than being involved in two World Wars. But as posses all the debating skills of a ranting 5 year old, i somehow doubt it.

[DC-]

Are we still going on about Muhammed Ali?

Olympics mean OLYMPICS, no matter how much you try to argue it. Get over it, he's not the greatest Olympian of all time.

[mjdgreg]

Not only did Noel-Baker influence the UN, he set it up.

Slight exaggeration (again). Noel-Baker served on the British delegation to what became the United Nations, helping to draft its charter and other rules for operation as a British delegate.

Well done to him for helping set up what is a totally ineffectual organisation. Another typical waste of public money by a leftie politician.

[DC-]

OLYMPICS damnit, OLYMPICS. Nothing outside counts when you're assessing the greatest Olympian.

[mjdgreg]

OLYMPICS damnit, OLYMPICS. Nothing outside counts when you're assessing the greatest Olympian.

Depends on your definition of Olympian. The Oxford Dictionary concur with my view. They state that an Olympian is: 

'a competitor in the Olympic Games'.

So when assessing the greatest Olympian it is far too narrow a measure just to base your argument on what was achieved at the Olympic Games.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If I were that lowest form of internet krill, a Grammar Nazi, I might ask when the word "dictionary" became a plural.

But only inadequates spend their weekends obsessing over the minutiae of other folks' grammar, so I'll pass.

[DC-]

OLYMPICS damnit, OLYMPICS. Nothing outside counts when you're assessing the greatest Olympian.

Depends on your definition of Olympian. The Oxford Dictionary concur with my view. They state that an Olympian is: 

'a competitor in the Olympic Games'.

So when assessing the greatest Olympian it is far too narrow a measure just to base your argument on what was achieved at the Olympic Games.

Haven't you just contradicted yourself? A competitor IN in the Olympics. If you judge the athlete on what they've done OUT of the Olympics, then it isn't really judging a athlete as an Olympian, is it?

[mjdgreg]

If I were that lowest form of internet krill, a Grammar Nazi, I might ask when the word "dictionary" became a plural.

But only inadequates spend their weekends obsessing over the minutiae of other folks' grammar, so I'll pass.

lol

[mjdgreg]

Haven't you just contradicted yourself? A competitor IN in the Olympics. If you judge the athlete on what they've done OUT of the Olympics, then it isn't really judging a athlete as an Olympian, is it?

No I haven't. To be described as an Olympian all you have to do is compete in the Olympic Games. Doesn't matter how good or bad you were, you are still an Olympian. So no matter whatever you achieve in life, you will always be an Olympian. Some Olympians go on to achieve far more in the rest of their lives than they ever did at the Olympic games. They can then be considered as the greatest Olympian of all time. That is why Ali holds the title by a country mile.

[jucyberry]

To me, they are all pretty darned special, just to get to the pinacle of your game, to wear your countries colours in the highest, most famous sporting event in the world makes them all great.

One cannot be judged against another because every four years standards are raised ever higher and records are broken.

They are all incredible in my opinion.

[The L J Monk]

If you're going to consider achievements outside of The Games then I'm going to throw Plato into the ring. His CV isn't too shabby.

[Filo]

OLYMPICS damnit, OLYMPICS. Nothing outside counts when you're assessing the greatest Olympian.

Depends on your definition of Olympian. The Oxford Dictionary concur with my view. They state that an Olympian is: 

'a competitor in the Olympic Games'.

So when assessing the greatest Olympian it is far too narrow a measure just to base your argument on what was achieved at the Olympic Games.

That great authority on words and their meanings, Wordhippo states

any of the twelve Greek gods regarded as living on Olympus

[DC-]

Haven't you just contradicted yourself? A competitor IN in the Olympics. If you judge the athlete on what they've done OUT of the Olympics, then it isn't really judging a athlete as an Olympian, is it?

No I haven't. To be described as an Olympian all you have to do is compete in the Olympic Games. Doesn't matter how good or bad you were, you are still an Olympian. So no matter whatever you achieve in life, you will always be an Olympian. Some Olympians go on to achieve far more in the rest of their lives than they ever did at the Olympic games. They can then be considered as the greatest Olympian of all time. That is why Ali holds the title by a country mile.

By that logic, Pope John Paul II is one of the most influential Goalkeepers that ever lived.

[mjdgreg]

By that logic, Pope John Paul II is one of the most influential Goalkeepers that ever lived.

I don't follow your logic. We're talking about the 'greatest' not the most influential. I'm surprised he competed in the Olympics as a goalkeeper. All I do know is that he is responsible for millions of deaths from AIDS due to his ridiculous religion banning contraception.

[DC-]

I never said anything about the Olympics, I said Goalkeeper ... you're not the only one who can nitpick.

As for that anyway. Ali isn't even the greatest sportsman of all time. A true sportsman is someone who is a natural to all sports, someone who dedicates their life to sport and someone who achieves greatness across a variety of competitions and levels.

I'm not disputing that he was a great Boxer. He was perhaps the best Boxer that ever and will ever be. However, there are better sportsmen in history and thus, by your definition, not the greatest Olympian of all time.

[mjdgreg]

I never said anything about the Olympics, I said Goalkeeper ... you're not the only one who can nitpick.

As for that anyway. Ali isn't even the greatest sportsman of all time. A true sportsman is someone who is a natural to all sports, someone who dedicates their life to sport and someone who achieves greatness across a variety of competitions and levels.

I'm not disputing that he was a great Boxer. He was perhaps the best Boxer that ever and will ever be. However, there are better sportsmen in history and thus, by your definition, not the greatest Olympian of all time.

Of course I knew he never competed at the Olympics. I was trying to make the subtle point that you should only be referring to Olympians in this thread. Talking about a Pope that used to be a goalkeeper is a bit weird and I don't know why you did it.

You are entitled to your opinion on Ali. We'll just have to disagree on that one.

[DC-]

Yes, we should ONLY be referring to the Olympics. They are the words "only" and "Olympics" in the same sentence. That is to say, when talking about the greatest Olympian, one should only be concerned with the goings on within the Olympics and the Olympics only. Ali won a Gold medal, once. He may be a great Boxer, a formidable sportsman but not one of the greatest Olympians.

[mjdgreg]

Yes, we should ONLY be referring to the Olympics. They are the words "only" and "Olympics" in the same sentence. That is to say, when talking about the greatest Olympian, one should only be concerned with the goings on within the Olympics and the Olympics only. Ali won a Gold medal, once. He may be a great Boxer, a formidable sportsman but not one of the greatest Olympians.

I'd agree with you if the title of the thread was 'Is Michael Phelps the greatest Olympian of all time but you must ignore any achievements outside of the Olympic games.' Unfortunately for you this isn't the title of the thread. If you can get the Oxford Dictionaries to change their definition of an Olympian to your version then I will happily agree with you. Until then I'm afraid you are just plain wrong and I am right as usual.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For the love of f**king Jesus.

Mick. Tell us how to defi e the word "greatest" and we can then have a discussion.


PS: I looked on Word Hippo, but it didn't have an entry for "greatest" so I'm struggling again.
Mind, it DID have an entry for "opposite of" greatest. It said "Least"

So, we can re-phrase the original question: Who is the opposite of the least Olympian?"

In Mick-world, the two questions are identical.

[mjdgreg]

For the love of f***ing Jesus.

mjdgreg. Tell us how to defi e the word "greatest" and we can then have a discussion.


PS: I looked on Word Hippo, but it didn't have an entry for "greatest" so I'm struggling again.
Mind, it DID have an entry for "opposite of" greatest. It said "Least"

So, we can re-phrase the original question: Who is the opposite of the least Olympian?"

In mjdgreg-world, the two questions are identical.

OMFG. I'm impressed. Looks like you've taken my advice and the humour bypass reversal operation has been a success. Let's hope it does the same trick for Jucyberry.

I do have a request though. Even though I am a devout atheist and taking our Lord's name in vain doesn't bother me in the slightest, you have to take account of the fact there are many Christian viewers of this forum that you will be upsetting greatly. I'm sure they would appreciate it if you didn't express your anger at my posts in such a blasphemous way.

[DC-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mN4P_WxdnE

Derek Redmond, end of story. Thank you for coming.

[jucyberry]

Well, on your advise Mick i went to the doctors to see about the bypass...

He said i don't actually need one.............















 It's just my t**tometer is working overtime at the moment...... Lord knows why tho .... 

[mjdgreg]

Well, on your advise mjdgreg i went to the doctors to see about the bypass...

He said i don't actually need one.............

It's just my t**tometer is working overtime at the moment...... Lord knows why tho ....   

It's probably because you have been reading that pure filth, 50 Shades of Grey. It's the first time that I've heard it called that though. I'm more used to the abbreviated version of the word.

[RedJ]

Well, on your advise mjdgreg i went to the doctors to see about the bypass...

He said i don't actually need one.............

It's just my t**tometer is working overtime at the moment...... Lord knows why tho ....   

It's probably because you have been reading that pure filth, 50 Shades of Grey. It's the first time that I've heard it called that though. I'm more used to the abbreviated version of the word.

Credit where credit's due, that one was pretty good Mick (I'll save you the editing - mjdgreg).

[jucyberry]

Sorry Mick, not being a brain dead sheep...

 No, I haven't read and have no intention of ever reading 50 shades of shite..

I just have an increasingly low tolerance for nonsense.