Obscure facts from 2012-13

[Dutch Uncle]

Finally able to access the site from my PC for the first time since Saturday morning. I put this post on the Yorkshire Football Forum site in the meantime, but now repeated here - some obscure facts from this season

2012-13 Dutch Uncle Season comments:

Football League records
• First club to win 7 Championships at Level 3 and 4
• First ex Conference club to become champions at Level 3
• Top ex Conference club for 5th consecutive season
• First ex Conference team to win promotion to Level 2 on two occasions - still only the second team after Colchester to achieve three promotions from Conference to Level 2

Club league achievements
• Highest League Championship Rovers have ever won beating the three won at Regionalised Level 3 and the three won at Level 4

• To put into context, if one makes a fair comparison giving 3 points for a win in all our 86 league and Conference seasons in the club’s history, it is the 4th best points tally ever.

• A new club record of 12 away league matches unbeaten was set. The two previous occasions were as a part of the club record 20 league game unbeaten run in 1968-69, and the first 11 away games of the incredible 1946-47 season when we won 18 of our 21 away matches in the league. Actually we were unbeaten in our last 6 away matches of the last full season before the war – 1938-39 – so there is a case for saying we were unbeaten away in 17 games, although on the other hand 2 away games were lost in the aborted 1939-40 season - these results being annulled.

• Second best away record in the club's history behinds the Football League all-comers record we set in 1946-7 when we won 18, drew 1 and lost only 2 of our 21 away matches.
o Interestingly the two away losses that season were at second placed Rotherham and at bottom placed club Halifax - so maybe our loss at Bury was not as surprising as might be thought at first.
o Second most away wins in a season after 1946-7, beating the previous second best of 11 in 2002-3 in the Conference.

• It is only the 5th time in those 86 seasons that we have had a better record away from home than at home, and of those 5 seasons, this season has by some way the largest difference. Two of the other 4 seasons with a better away records were also championship winning seasons (1946-7 and 1949-50). On two occasions we have had equal home and away records (counting with the old 2 points per win) the most recent being the season we won the Conference playoffs.

• First time in history achieved staying up at a level higher than lowest possible in the Football League pyramid (i.e above Division 2/Level 4 this season) for a guaranteed 10 successive seasons - the previous best was the 9 seasons from 1950-51 to 1958-9 in old Divisions 2 and 3.

Goalscoring achievements
• First time since 2003-4, and only second since 1989-90 that we had two or more players scoring more than 10 league goals in a season

• Chris Brown joins 3 elite lists players who have scored for Rovers in:
o 3 different league levels - the 8th player joining Jimmy Fletcher, Alick Jeffrey, Greg Blundell, Paul Green, Mark Albrighton, Steve Foster and Ron Walker
o 3 different cup competitions in the same season (and thus with the League in four competitions) - the 5th player joining Graeme Jones, Colin Cramb, Mark McCammon and Brian Stock. James Hayter also scored in the League, 2 cups and the playoffs in 2007-8.
o 6 or more competitions - the (Football League Tiers 2,3 and 4, FA Cup, League Cup and now Associate Members' Cup). The other two are Brian Stock (Football League Tiers 2 and 3, FA Cup, FL Cup, AMC and Football League Playoffs) and the overall leader Paul Green with 7 competitions (Football League Tiers 3 and 4, Football Conference, FL Cup, AMC, Conference Playoffs and Football Association Trophy).

• When Billy Paynter scored two goals at Crewe this was the first personal double for Rovers in 59 league games, the previous double being Mamadou Bagayoko at Leeds last season. This is the second longest such sequence in the club's history, the longest being the 66 matches between Steve Richards' double at Halifax in 1992-3 until O'Neil Donaldson's double against Colchester in 1994-5.

Attendances
• The 23 Home league matches attracted a total of 166496 spectators at an average of 7239. The highest was 12785 against Sheffield United and the lowest was 5411 against Crewe. This is a little lower than the average of 7978 during our last promotion season in 2007-8.

• This means since we returned to the league in 2003 we have had 10 successive seasons of attendance averages over 6000. The last time this was the case was back in the 1950's.

• The 23 Away league matches attracted a total of 151536 spectators at an average of 6589. The highest was 17925 against Sheffield United and the lowest was 3229 at Carlisle.

Internationals
• Iain Hume & Dean Furman Rovers first internationals for Canada & South Africa (i.e. earning a cap whilst at Rovers)

Miscellaneous
• When Michael Woods entered the pitch as a late substitute in the FA Cup tie against Bradford Park Avenue he joined his two non-related namesakes Gary and Martin, thus providing Rovers with three players of the same surname on the pitch at the same time for the first time since Geoff, Jimmy and Ron Walker played in a Division 2 League match at the County Ground in Nottingham on 26 March 1955, the last of 6 occurrences. The only other occasions were in the 1920's when brothers Tom and Harold Keetley played twice with brother Joe and 15 times with brother Frank.

• The first time in our history that we have finished a league season higher than Portsmouth. The only other teams we have never finished higher than at the end of a season are Arsenal, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Liverpool, Middlesboro, Manchester City, Newcastle, Stoke, Sunderland and WBA. Chelsea and Tottenham were not league clubs in 1901-2 when we played our first league season, but since they came into the league we have never finished higher than them.

• James Coppinger ended the season with 319 league appearances putting him in 7th position on the Rovers all-time list behind leader Fred Emery with 417, and 363 in all competitions putting him 6th place behind leader Colin Douglas with 468.

Not a lot to do over here in Holland......................

P.S. I will never ever ever again for a picosecond doubt any of BillyStubbsTears predictions and analyses................

[Seal Sullivan]

So Copps has 319 league appearances, record's 417. 92 more league games, what's that like 2 and a bit seasons? Would make him 34, probably 35 by the time that rolls around (if he stays injury free/selected). Can he do it?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Not a lot to do over here in Holland......................

P.S. I will never ever ever again for a picosecond doubt any of BillyStubbsTears predictions and analyses................

84 points it was then 

Wow! Thanks for all that

So Copps has 319 league appearances, record's 417. 92 more league games, what's that like 2 and a bit seasons? Would make him 34, probably 35 by the time that rolls around (if he stays injury free/selected). Can he do it?

Its up to him to work very hard if we're in the Championship for a couple of seasons or more.

In League games he has 10 to catch Dennis Peacock, 14 Syd Bycroft, 24 Brian Makepeace and then he'll be in 4th place. Should be able to manage that next season.

In all games he has 10 to catch Dennis Peacock, 15 Brian Makepeace to get into 4th place.

Sulli is worth a mention, reaching 200 league apps on Saturday.

Dutch, do you know how many games Walter Langton played for us in his 18 seasons - League and overall?

[Dutch Uncle]

BRR - Walter Langton played most of his matches for us in the Midland Alliance & Midland League from 1890 to 1901 and in 1903-4, and in Friendlies from 1887-1890, but I can't find any detailed records of those appearances. He did play 45 league games for us in 1901-2 & 1902-3 including playing in Rovers first ever league match against Burslem Port Vale. The Rovers Wiki page says his appearances would be 'well over 200', and he is reckoned to be Rovers longest serving player (about 17 years) so Copps has a way to go in that respect! 

[BillyStubbsTears]

P.S. I will never ever ever again for a picosecond doubt any of BillyStubbsTears predictions and analyses................

Dutch.

Never underestimate the power of blind faith and guesswork...

PS: Fantastic trivia facts as ever. I enjoyed that read. That fact that this season is the fourth best in our history for total points: can you re-do it to see where it stands in terms of points per game?

[Dutch Uncle]

BST - On a 3pts per win basis 7th best ever season; on a 2 points per win basis equal 9th:

Season   M   Lge   Pos   Pt2/W   Pt3/W   PPG/3      PPG/2
1946-7   42   3N   1   72      105      2.500      1.714
2003-4   46   4   1   65      92      2.000      1.413
1934-5   42   3N   1   57      83      1.976      1.357
1938-9   42   3N   2   56      79      1.881      1.333
2002-3   42   FC   3   56      78      1.857      1.333
1983-4   46   4   2   61      85      1.848      1.326
2012-3   46   3   1   59      84      1.826      1.283
1965-6   46   4   1   59      83      1.804      1.283
1927-8   42   3N   4   53      76      1.810      1.262
1937-8   42   3N   2   54      75      1.786      1.286
1933-4   42   3N   5   53      75      1.786      1.262
1949-50   42   3N   1   55      74      1.762      1.310
1968-9   46   4   1   59      80      1.739      1.283
2007-8   46   3   3   57      80      1.739      1.239
1980-1   46   4   3   56      78      1.696      1.217

By 'Lge' I mean Tier/level - i.e. this season was level 3

[Dutch Uncle]

By the way I now see I have missed yet another club record from this season:

•   Fewest goals conceded away from home in a season in the club's history with 21 beating the previous record of 22 in 1968-9.

 The significance of that Brentford crossbar just seems to be endless 

[ReadingViking]

By the way I now see I have missed yet another club record from this season:

•   Fewest goals conceded away from home in a season in the club's history with 21 beating the previous record of 22 in 1968-9.

 The significance of that Brentford crossbar just seems to be endless 

I think the club should name one of the concourse bars 'THE BRENTFORD BAR'   




 

[Alonzo Drake]

Wonderful facts and analyses Dutch as usual. Love your piece about Langton, and the fact we've been away from the basement for 10 seasons! I witnessed the other end of that with hardly missing a game home or away in our ten season stint in D4, 1971-72 to 1980=81! Also, in all the excitement has it been noticed that it was Brentford which ended our 20 match unbeaten run (1-0 at Griffin Park) in 1968/69. Always felt bad about that. So revenge at last, but at the same time I feel for them!

Finally able to access the site from my PC for the first time since Saturday morning. I put this post on the Yorkshire Football Forum site in the meantime, but now repeated here - some obscure facts from this season

2012-13 Dutch Uncle Season comments:

Football League records
• First club to win 7 Championships at Level 3 and 4
• First ex Conference club to become champions at Level 3
• Top ex Conference club for 5th consecutive season
• First ex Conference team to win promotion to Level 2 on two occasions - still only the second team after Colchester to achieve three promotions from Conference to Level 2

Club league achievements
• Highest League Championship Rovers have ever won beating the three won at Regionalised Level 3 and the three won at Level 4

• To put into context, if one makes a fair comparison giving 3 points for a win in all our 86 league and Conference seasons in the club’s history, it is the 4th best points tally ever.

• A new club record of 12 away league matches unbeaten was set. The two previous occasions were as a part of the club record 20 league game unbeaten run in 1968-69, and the first 11 away games of the incredible 1946-47 season when we won 18 of our 21 away matches in the league. Actually we were unbeaten in our last 6 away matches of the last full season before the war – 1938-39 – so there is a case for saying we were unbeaten away in 17 games, although on the other hand 2 away games were lost in the aborted 1939-40 season - these results being annulled.

• Second best away record in the club's history behinds the Football League all-comers record we set in 1946-7 when we won 18, drew 1 and lost only 2 of our 21 away matches.
o Interestingly the two away losses that season were at second placed Rotherham and at bottom placed club Halifax - so maybe our loss at Bury was not as surprising as might be thought at first.
o Second most away wins in a season after 1946-7, beating the previous second best of 11 in 2002-3 in the Conference.

• It is only the 5th time in those 86 seasons that we have had a better record away from home than at home, and of those 5 seasons, this season has by some way the largest difference. Two of the other 4 seasons with a better away records were also championship winning seasons (1946-7 and 1949-50). On two occasions we have had equal home and away records (counting with the old 2 points per win) the most recent being the season we won the Conference playoffs.

• First time in history achieved staying up at a level higher than lowest possible in the Football League pyramid (i.e above Division 2/Level 4 this season) for a guaranteed 10 successive seasons - the previous best was the 9 seasons from 1950-51 to 1958-9 in old Divisions 2 and 3.

Goalscoring achievements
• First time since 2003-4, and only second since 1989-90 that we had two or more players scoring more than 10 league goals in a season

• Chris Brown joins 3 elite lists players who have scored for Rovers in:
o 3 different league levels - the 8th player joining Jimmy Fletcher, Alick Jeffrey, Greg Blundell, Paul Green, Mark Albrighton, Steve Foster and Ron Walker
o 3 different cup competitions in the same season (and thus with the League in four competitions) - the 5th player joining Graeme Jones, Colin Cramb, Mark McCammon and Brian Stock. James Hayter also scored in the League, 2 cups and the playoffs in 2007-8.
o 6 or more competitions - the (Football League Tiers 2,3 and 4, FA Cup, League Cup and now Associate Members' Cup). The other two are Brian Stock (Football League Tiers 2 and 3, FA Cup, FL Cup, AMC and Football League Playoffs) and the overall leader Paul Green with 7 competitions (Football League Tiers 3 and 4, Football Conference, FL Cup, AMC, Conference Playoffs and Football Association Trophy).

• When Billy Paynter scored two goals at Crewe this was the first personal double for Rovers in 59 league games, the previous double being Mamadou Bagayoko at Leeds last season. This is the second longest such sequence in the club's history, the longest being the 66 matches between Steve Richards' double at Halifax in 1992-3 until O'Neil Donaldson's double against Colchester in 1994-5.

Attendances
• The 23 Home league matches attracted a total of 166496 spectators at an average of 7239. The highest was 12785 against Sheffield United and the lowest was 5411 against Crewe. This is a little lower than the average of 7978 during our last promotion season in 2007-8.

• This means since we returned to the league in 2003 we have had 10 successive seasons of attendance averages over 6000. The last time this was the case was back in the 1950's.

• The 23 Away league matches attracted a total of 151536 spectators at an average of 6589. The highest was 17925 against Sheffield United and the lowest was 3229 at Carlisle.

Internationals
• Iain Hume & Dean Furman Rovers first internationals for Canada & South Africa (i.e. earning a cap whilst at Rovers)

Miscellaneous
• When Michael Woods entered the pitch as a late substitute in the FA Cup tie against Bradford Park Avenue he joined his two non-related namesakes Gary and Martin, thus providing Rovers with three players of the same surname on the pitch at the same time for the first time since Geoff, Jimmy and Ron Walker played in a Division 2 League match at the County Ground in Nottingham on 26 March 1955, the last of 6 occurrences. The only other occasions were in the 1920's when brothers Tom and Harold Keetley played twice with brother Joe and 15 times with brother Frank.

• The first time in our history that we have finished a league season higher than Portsmouth. The only other teams we have never finished higher than at the end of a season are Arsenal, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Liverpool, Middlesboro, Manchester City, Newcastle, Stoke, Sunderland and WBA. Chelsea and Tottenham were not league clubs in 1901-2 when we played our first league season, but since they came into the league we have never finished higher than them.

• James Coppinger ended the season with 319 league appearances putting him in 7th position on the Rovers all-time list behind leader Fred Emery with 417, and 363 in all competitions putting him 6th place behind leader Colin Douglas with 468.

Not a lot to do over here in Holland......................

P.S. I will never ever ever again for a picosecond doubt any of BillyStubbsTears predictions and analyses................

[Dutch Uncle]

Thanks Alonzo - and yes I had forgotten about that Griffin Park match in 1969.

Bristol Red Rover sent me an incredibly thoughtful PM (not wishing to seem to undermine my post I take it) saying he was the one who wrote the Wiki page about Walter Langton - so he is very much the one  to thank on that score. 

[Bristol Red Rover]

Thanks Dutch 

If anyone is interested Walter Langtons page is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter Langton (footballer_born_1868), maybe TRB can add some info?

[graingrover]

All this is too good to be confined to a simple thread. Could we not start an official VSC permanent archive for such well researched and valuable data and comments.?

[Dutch Uncle]

All this is too good to be confined to a simple thread. Could we not start an official VSC permanent archive for such well researched and valuable data and comments.?

Many thanks for the kind words Brian. A couple of comments:

1: Much of the content above has already appeared in excruciatingly more detail in the Popular Stand Fanzines this season - available online from Viva Rovers (e.g. an article about players of the same name in the team, runs of matches without any player scoring twice........)

2: Of course I have this and end of season comments from a number of other years archived myself, so it is not totally lost

3: (remember 8 out of 5 mathematicians can't count) Bristol Red Rover also clearly has archived some great things on Wiki, and we do have truly brilliant club official statisticians (Tony Bluff/Barry Watson) and in addition at least one other person who is much better than me at archiving ....... The Red Baron.   

[Bristol Red Rover]

What we really need is a museum at the Keepmoat with all the usual momentos and a selection of vids of great moments. Something for fans, visitors but especially for youngsters to be able to see the richness of our history.

School trips there under the guise of local history could help get a few extra young fans on board.

[BobG]

Now that is a damn good idea BRR. A small museum, showcase, would be a starter that could lead to all sorts of possibilities. VSC chaps - is this an idea worth investigating?

BobG

[Herman Hessian]

i heard about a dozen years or so back that one of the local libraries had an original rovers tam'o'shanter, as in part of the original pre 1900 kit - I think it was Ade "Ginger" Sill who claimed to have seen it - would be a fine addition to any newly put together collection of bits and pieces !

[RedRover45]

I recall going to a Rovers exhibition at Doncaster Library about seven/eight years ago. That was well worth the visit, only lasted a couple of weeks though.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What we really need is a museum at the Keepmoat with all the usual momentos and a selection of vids of great moments. Something for fans, visitors but especially for youngsters to be able to see the richness of our history.

School trips there under the guise of local history could help get a few extra young fans on board.

Brilliant idea.

Over the last ten years, we have had more fingernail-biting, sphincter-quivering days than any side in the country, I would have thought. More days when something really, really big mattered. Days where the consequences of winning or losing would have been so huge to a club of our size. And then, the fact that most of those key matches have been won. And most of them have had some gut-wrenching moments. All that makes for a wonderful PR opportunity.

"Come and support Donny and lose control of your sphincter on a regular basis!"

(You may have guessed that I don't work in advertising...)


But yeah. A museum of the moments of the last decade and a bit would be fantastic.

Start with Glenn Kirkwood in THAT match against Dover.

The Bob Lord Trophy

Andy Warrington at Chester

Franny at Stoke

Tokyo Tim at Cambridge (the moment that turned the season)

Outplaying Villa and Arsenal in the Milk Cup (Or whatever it was called then)

Copps agin Southend

Hayter at Wembley

The showman performance at Hillsborough in 2010

(Gloss over 2011 and early 2012...)

Rob Jones doing the Yul Brynner in Westworld act at Bramall Lane this season.

And finish it all off with Coppinger's swallow dive into the crowd last Satdi.

Lovely.

[BobG]

I'd bang in that epic stuffing of Forest at their place on Boxing Day too (I think it was BD anyway!) A great goal from Woodsy and a bloody GREAT victory that turned a season.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd bang in that epic stuffing of Forest at their place on Boxing Day too (I think it was BD anyway!) A great goal from Woodsy and a bloody GREAT victory that turned a season.

BobG

Aye Bob

With a certain striker that some of us had been crying out for for 5 months finally getting a regular shirt.

[pubteam]

I was just thinking today, when we do it, we almost always seem to do it the "hard way" don't we?

Last minute vs Chester @ BV.
Penalties in the second leg.
Chucked away a 2-0 to go to extra time vs Dagenham.
Went 2-0 down to Crewe in the second leg of the JPT semi-final and had to produce an epic comeback to win.
Chucked away another 2-0 at Cardiff in the JPT to go to extra time.
Lost to Cheltenham in 2008 and had to go through the dreaded play-offs.
Bottom of the table at Christmas in 2008 and needing play-off form to stop up.
Almost the opposite of that in 2011, not being able to buy a win but scraping draws at the end to guarantee safety.
And then Saturday. Concede a penalty with 30 seconds to play but then break away and score.

[BobG]

That's some record that Pubteam. I suppose to provide a bit of balance we ought to mention that we easily saw off Villa and Man City though!

Wonder which category we'd put Arsenal?

Cheers

BobG

[pubteam]

That's some record that Pubteam. I suppose to provide a bit of balance we ought to mention that we easily saw off Villa and Man City though!

Wonder which category we'd put Arsenal?

Cheers

BobG

Aye. I did say "almost always" though! 

Deliberately left out 2003/4 as well, since that was a piece of piss!

[NathanDRFC]

Now that is a damn good idea BRR. A small museum, showcase, would be a starter that could lead to all sorts of possibilities. VSC chaps - is this an idea worth investigating?

BobG

Bob its something we have on the agenda earlier this season put placed on hold.

[Filo]

Maybe we could start with some newspaper cuttings, framed and put on display in the BV bar.


does the club get to keep replicas of trophy`s we`ve won, if so they would be a good focal point of any potential museum

[bedale rover]

By the way I now see I have missed yet another club record from this season:

•   Fewest goals conceded away from home in a season in the club's history with 21 beating the previous record of 22 in 1968-9.

 The significance of that Brentford crossbar just seems to be endless 

I think the club should name one of the concourse bars 'THE BRENTFORD BAR'   




 

Surely it should be named "everyone BAR trotta" bar

[RobTheRover]

• The first time in our history that we have finished a league season higher than Portsmouth. The only other teams we have never finished higher than at the end of a season are Arsenal, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Liverpool, Middlesboro, Manchester City, Newcastle, Stoke, Sunderland and WBA. Chelsea and Tottenham were not league clubs in 1901-2 when we played our first league season, but since they came into the league we have never finished higher than them.

How ironic that Pompey could nick most of our "conference side" records with just one more relegation.

[IDM]

BST I'd add Ian Duerden's hat-trick at Rushden and Diamonds in our first conference season - that was a season turner IMHO...

[BillyStubbsTears]

IDM

Nah. The Dover match was the turning point. We were rock bottom of the Conference and had been for two months. We'd won 2, drawn 4 and lost 9 of the previous 15 games. Then we let three goals in at home to Dover Ath-bloody-letic in the first half hour.

You don't get lower than that.

The turnround started that day. That was the day we got off the bottom of the table and we never went there again.

Mind, we lost at home to Leek Town the next week. But the spirit had changed after that Dover match. A few weeks later, when we came back from 2-0 down to draw against Cheltenham who were top of the league, you could see the spirit in the team as Ian Snod went beserk booting down advertising hoardings and kicking in the away team dressing room door.

(I thought that was a bit disrespectful at the time, but I didn't realise what a t**t Steve Cotterill was in them days, so nice one Snod.)

[BillyStubbsTears]

• The first time in our history that we have finished a league season higher than Portsmouth. The only other teams we have never finished higher than at the end of a season are Arsenal, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Liverpool, Middlesboro, Manchester City, Newcastle, Stoke, Sunderland and WBA. Chelsea and Tottenham were not league clubs in 1901-2 when we played our first league season, but since they came into the league we have never finished higher than them.

Dutch. Which other teams have we finished above for the first time ever over the past 10 years? I know Sheff Weds is one, but there must be several others I'd have thought?