Looking grim for Labour

[RedJ]

Looking forward to Yeovil, Mick?

[IC1967]

Stop trying to change the subject. You're just like Ed Milliband - never wanting to discuss the good economic news.

[RedJ]

I take it you're not going then?

[Serring]

I'm thinking of going.... went last year and was brilliant... even the stop at Burnham.
Anybody else thing of going?
Great day out.

[nice one rovers]

More bad news for Labour. Unemployment continuing its dramatic fall. We've never had as many jobs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28325361

More bad news for Labour's cost of living baloney. Wages growth outpacing inflation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27406084

Quite literally.
 Millions of people are having to do two jobs to scrape by. Also the employed figure is a lie, as childcare help and tax credits are weighted to encourage part time work , so you've got two or three people doing the job that one person used to get paid for.
Thus helping the gov to cook the books to make it look like we're all in gainful employment.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Average wages AGAIN rising far lower than inflation. In the last 12 months, salaries rose by 0.7% which is the lowest figure since records began. AND, these figures do not include the salaries of the army of self-employed (which went up by nearly half a million people last year). It is pretty much certain that if you include the self-employed, the salry increase would be even lower.

What we have is a nation re-adjusting itself to tell people to go out and sell bits of Chinese-made plastic shit to each other. Just last week I bumped into a lad who my company employed for a summer while he was a student. Excellent lad. Bright as a button. Hard working. He got a 1st class Engineering Masters degree from a Russell Group University. We didn't have a vacancy when he graduated, otherwise I'd have taken him like a shot. He's spent the last two years doing bar work because there have been no opportunities for him in engineering. He's now bitten the bullet and decided to emigrate to Canada, where he's got a job as a graduate engineer.

We have made a catastrophic error of judgement these last few years and we will pay for it for decades in the loss of talent like this. But ni mind, eh? We can all get f**king Bettaware rounds or spend our productive hours arbing. That'll soon sort the country out. None of this bullshit about designing computers or planes or cars or bridges. That's for other countries to do.

[IC1967]

You really make my piss boil with your leftie rants about how things are so bad. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a shortage of engineers in this country. The lad you referred to could easily have got a job in the UK. I suspect though that he was a bit fussy about the type of engineering he was prepared to do like so many British graduates. They prefer to do bar work until that 'perfect' job comes along. They all think the world of work owes them a living and they are not prepared to just get a job and develop their career from there.

Please explain the comments from Mr Dyson in the link below. Why is he saying he could give jobs to 2000 engineers if they were out there? Please explain this comment from the article - 'He said Britain “produced 12,000 engineering graduates a year – and there are currently 54,000 vacancies. It’s predicted that in two years time there will be 200,000 vacancies'. This article was from nearly a year ago. Get a grip man.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/10287555/Shortage-of-engineers-is-hurting-Britain-says-James-Dyson.html

So there are plenty of jobs for engineers if they want them. There aren't enough engineers ( a legacy from the previous Labour government who were only bothered about borrowing money to create public sector non jobs). Thankfully Dave and George have started to put this right.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This lad was a STRUCTURAL engineer you f***ing imbecile. Last time I checked, Dyson weren't looking for building designers to make f***ing vacuum cleaners.

Once again, you lumber into discussions that you know f*** all about, because you never leave the confines of your bedroom. Your pour out facile, imbecilic comments on complex and difficult problems. Tell you what. Shall I give you the lad's mobile number and you can call him and explain to him how a f***ing Bettaware salesman could put him right on what his professional aspirations should be?

No, actually, YOU give me your mobile number and I'll pass it onto him. Then he can call you and get the benefit of your experience.

[Filo]

This lad was a STRUCTURAL engineer you f**king imbecile. Last time I checked, Dyson weren't looking for building designers to make f**king vacuum cleaners.

Once again, you lumber into discussions that you know f**k all about, because you never leave the confines of your bedroom. Your pour out facile, imbecilic comments on complex and difficult problems. Tell you what. Shall I give you the lad's mobile number and you can call him and explain to him how a f**king Bettaware salesman could put him right on what his professional aspirations should be?

He's sucked you in BST, he dangled the bait a couple of times and eventually you took a bite, ignore the idiot

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

I know. Two months of managing to ignore him, but there are some imbecillic comments that just yank my chain.

[IC1967]

Is that the best you can do? I get you bang to rights and all of a sudden you introduce the word 'STRUCTURAL' into the debate to try and get off the hook. Now correct me if I'm wrong but structural engineers don't design computers, planes or cars. Here's what you said in your original post -'none of this bullshit about designing computers or planes or cars. That's for other countries to do'.

I think it's reasonable to assume that you were talking about engineers as most people understand the word. A structural engineer has a completely different meaning and if that's what you were on about it is very remiss of you not to preface the word engineer with 'structural'.

However I don't believe you were on about 'structural' engineers. I've caught you out (yet again) and you have tried to wriggle your way out of the mess. You don't fool anyone.

In any case there are plenty of structural engineering jobs out there. A quick check on Google has one company advertising well over a thousand jobs. So stop trying to paint a picture that isn't right.

http://www.indeed.co.uk/Graduate-Structural-Engineer-jobs

Just issue an abject apology and we'll say no more about the matter.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Come on then, dipshit. PM me your mobile number and I'll put you in touch with the lad so you can explain his mistakes directly to him.

[nice one rovers]

IC1967. You should change your username to lord hawhaw.

[IC1967]

Come on then, dipshit. PM me your mobile number and I'll put you in touch with the lad so you can explain his mistakes directly to him.

Look. The lad's decided to go to Canada and no doubt his travel plans are well advanced. I don't want to throw a spanner in the works at the last minute. I would just ask you to mention to him that he has been educated at great expense to our country and Canada is going to get the benefit. Does he intend to reimburse us out of his Canadian wages?

If only he hadn't been as picky about what he was prepared to do in the UK. If only I'd got to him before you filling his head no doubt with doom and gloom about our great country's future.

[RedJ]

Come on then, dipshit. PM me your mobile number and I'll put you in touch with the lad so you can explain his mistakes directly to him.

Look. The lad's decided to go to Canada and no doubt his travel plans are well advanced. I don't want to throw a spanner in the works at the last minute.

Are you sure it's not because you have no idea what you're talking about?

[IC1967]

Come on then, dipshit. PM me your mobile number and I'll put you in touch with the lad so you can explain his mistakes directly to him.

Look. The lad's decided to go to Canada and no doubt his travel plans are well advanced. I don't want to throw a spanner in the works at the last minute.

Are you sure it's not because you have no idea what you're talking about?

I presume you are referring to BST. I totally agree. When confronted with overwhelming evidence that there are plenty of jobs out there for engineers of all kinds he starts rambling about making a phone call to a young lad that hasn't been given the expert guidance that I could have given him. Shame on you Billy for not convincing him to stay. You're the one that says we need engineers but when push comes to shove you quite happily wave him off to Canada.

Ah well. At least it frees up another space in our country for a Roma gypsy to come and fill.

[RedJ]

Come on then, dipshit. PM me your mobile number and I'll put you in touch with the lad so you can explain his mistakes directly to him.

Look. The lad's decided to go to Canada and no doubt his travel plans are well advanced. I don't want to throw a spanner in the works at the last minute.

Are you sure it's not because you have no idea what you're talking about?

I presume you are referring to BST. I totally agree. When confronted with overwhelming evidence that there are plenty of jobs out there for engineers of all kinds he starts rambling about making a phone call to a young lad that hasn't been given the expert guidance that I could have given him. Shame on you Billy for not convincing him to stay. You're the one that says we need engineers but when push comes to shove you quite happily wave him off to Canada.

Ah well. At least it frees up another space in our country for a Roma gypsy to come and fill.

No, I was referring to you. I'll take that as confirmation of what I already thought then.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick

Just f**k off you smug, imbecilic w**ker. You know NOTHING of this. Nothing whatsoever. In 2012 (the year this lad graduated) only 64% of civil/structural engineering graduates were able to find full time employment in the industry in the UK. 64%! Fewer than 2 in 3. Primarily because the construction industry contracted horrendously due to the extended recession and the cutbacks to public infrastructure spending.

And yes you HAVE touched a raw nerve. I am f**king angry that bright, hard working, intelligent lads like the one I am talking about have been lost to this country because of the imbecilic economic decisions supported by imbeciles like you.

[IC1967]

Look. Just take a chill pill. I'm a bit confused. In the depths of a recession 2 out of 3 got a job. That was 2 years ago. Things are a lot better now but he's been doing bar work for the last 2 years. Why, when there have been plenty of jobs? Why wasn't he one of the 2 out of 3 two years ago when he had a better degree than probably more than 90% of those that did get a job?

It just doesn't add up, like a lot of what you say.

As far as I can see there was no need for him to leave the country. It's nothing to do with government decisions. The lad is obviously very picky about the job he wants and has waited 2 years until he's found one he's happy with. I'd just ask you to remind him that we the taxpayer have paid for most of his education and it would be nice if he reimbursed us for our trouble.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick

PM me your mobile number and you can remind him yourself. The opportunity presents itself to you to tell the lad where he has gone wrong.

[IC1967]

Evasive as usual. I ask you questions, you completely ignore them (as usual). So I'll have one more go and this time I'll number the questions so you can refer to each number with your response so we can all see whether you've answered the question or been your usual evasive self. It really makes my piss boil that you do this when I on the other hand always answer every question thrown at me. Right, here goes (I'm not holding my breath).

1. When he had a better degree than more than 90% of his competition (and from a top university) why did he fail to get one of the jobs available?

2. Why has he not managed to pick up a job in the last 2 years when demand for structural engineers has outstripped supply?

3. Why have you blamed the cutbacks for his inability to get a job?

4. Why has he only been able to get bar work for the last 2 years when the economy has been powering ahead?

5. Did you not make him aware that there are many other jobs out there that he could have gone for other than 'structural engineer'? (Many graduates end up in jobs that are not that relevant to the degree they've got. A degree is not just about getting a job in the subject area of the degree).

6. Did you mention to him that we the taxpayer had largely paid for his education and that he was doing the dirty on us?

7. Does he intend to pay any of this money back to us?

8. Did you fill his head full of defeatist leftie claptrap that there were no jobs because of the evil government cutbacks in the early years of this parliament?

9. Why do you always avoid the questions I put to you and go off at a tangent to try to  evade the issue?

Now I and all the other readers of this forum would like answers to these questions. I'll be totally amazed if we get any.

If you don't, then you will just confirm what we already think about you. You are a leftie nutjob that always tries to blame the coalition for all the problems in the world. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick

PM me your mobile number and you can ask him directly. Very easy. That should sort out questions 1,4-8.

2) Demand for structural engineers has NOT outstripped supply for the past two years. Demand for GRADUATE structural engineers has lagged way behind supply.

3)  Even the Govt itself has admitted that cutbacks in public capital investment hits the industry. The OBR had highlighted the hit to the construction industry of the Austerity measures in 2010-13. And that is why this Austerity-wedded Govt finally (and quietly) turned the tap back on a year or so ago.

That issue is not even up for debate, apart from by argumentative w**kers who insist black is white.

9. See end of answer to 3.

[IC1967]

What a very poor effort. Why am I not surprised. You have only 'answered' 3 out of the 9 questions (I use the term 'answered' very loosely).

Now, to your 'answers.'

2. Demand for structural engineers has outstripped supply. It depends on your definition of 'structural engineer'. My definition is obviously different from yours. So I will accept your answer in good faith.

3. You have not answered the question. We all accept that cutbacks make it more difficult to get a job. That is not the issue. You have blamed his inability to get a job totally on the cutbacks. Nothing to do with the lad himself. Surely it is reasonable to accept that part of the reason he didn't get a job has to do with the lad himself.

9. Again you have not answered the question.

So to summarise out of 9 questions you have only 'answered' 1. Even this 'answer' has no supporting evidence to back up your claim but as I am a magnanimous soul I will accept that question can now be put to bed. That leaves 8 questions outstanding.

Now, if you want to save any of the little face you have left on this forum  I suggest you have another go. This is your last chance. If you don't then I'm afraid the verdict of the forum will be damning. Over to you.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here we f**king go again. Welcome to Mick's one-dimensional world where everything is simple and straightforward. Life as read by textbook.

Why was that lad unable to get a structural engineering job despite having a first class degree? Because there was a collapse in the opportunities for graduate engineers. That means that there were fewer places available, with more people fighting for each one. Whether a particular individual gets a job is a stochastic rather than deterministic issue (go and f**king Google it), affected by what particular skill set the employer is looking for, the quality of the competition and a fair smattering of good luck. Being highly qualified does not automatically mean that you are a shoo-in for a job. (A director of a leading UK civil engineering contracting firm interviewed me for a job as a graduate engineer. He said that his policy when he got applications from graduates was usually to list the applications in rank order of degree grade, turn it upside down and take the top 20. In the company that I worked for in the 1990 recession, three graduate engineers with better degrees than mine were made redundant whilst I was kept on. Or then there's the mate of mine who was a partner of one of the UK's leading structural engineering firms - a company with a massive international profile, responsible for a string of high-profile projects that even someone who never leaves his bedroom like you might have heard of. He lost his job during the recession, because the company folded. Is that a reflection on his quality? Perhaps I should pass your mobile number onto him too and you can explain to him what he did wrong you f**king cretin.)

The point I was making (the f**king blindingly obvious point before you did you usual thing of making every f**king discussion  about YOU) was that, as in any stochastic event, the fewer times you roll the dice, the fewer times any particular given outcome will emerge. So, if there are many, many fewer graduate opportunities because of a collapse in the industry, exacerbated by a savage cutback in Govt capital infrastructure investment, there will be fewer chances to roll the dice at interviews and more highly qualified people will be out of work. Simple common sense if you sit down and engage brain before treating us to your black/white deterministic view of the world.

Now. Do you really want to know the answers to the other questions? Because all you have to do is give me your number and I'll put you in touch with both Pat and Jon and you can ask them directly. Otherwise, shut the f**k up.

[IC1967]

Very poor effort indeed. Absolutely no effort to even number your answers to the question. Right, I'll do my best to wade through your last load of waffle and see if indeed you have answered any of the questions.

1. You seem to be saying he was unlucky. Not a good enough answer I'm afraid. In this life you make your own luck. Please feel free to have another go at providing a proper answer.

2. Answer accepted.

3. Not answered. I detect you are back tracking a bit on your initial contention that it was all the fault of the government cutbacks. An apology would be appreciated.

4. Not answered in the slightest.

5. Not answered in the slightest. I can only assume you didn't give him any advice. Shame on you.

6. Not answered in the slightest. I can only assume you couldn't care less about the great expense he has put the taxpayer to.

7. Not answered in the slightest. I can only assume it didn't cross your mind to ask the question as you couldn't care less (see previous response to question 6).

8. Not answered in the slightest. I can only assume that you did fill his head with a load of defeatist leftie claptrap that made him feel he would never get a job and has resulted in the poor lad emigrating when there was no need for this.

9. Not answered in the slightest. Your responses have again shown you to be the most evasive person on the forum.

Now, I am going to give you yet another chance to answer the outstanding questions. You don't deserve it, but I am nothing if not magnanimous. Please don't spurn this opportunity. Please stop asking me to ring the poor lad. You should have (not 'of') put him right when you had the chance. If you didn't  discuss the matter with him as in some of my questions then just say so. It's not hard.

Over to you.

[RedJ]

If you're so confident you're right in what you're saying then why don't you tell them yourself? or is it that you've not got the balls and you're just a WUM keyboard warrior?

[BillyStubbsTears]

PS:

Latest opinion poll, Labour 7 points ahead according to You Gov. That's not the real lead of course. It's an outlier. Just like the ones that Mick flags up when we get outliers in the other direction showing the Tories in the lead. The real Lab lead is probably somewhere around 4-5 points. In other words, exactly where it was 12 months ago.

I suspect we'll have to wait for yet another outlier before Mick bothers to regale us with some figures. In the meantime, I'm assuming that he is frantically studying sampling theory, 95% confidence limits and typical margins of error in opinion polls, so as to make sure that he doesn't make an utter prick of himself next time he posts on this subject. But I'm probably wrong on that assumption.

Latest prediction from Steve Fisher's model by the way (not that i think it's worth a bucket of warm piss, but Mick did insist on bringing it up a few weeks back). There is now a higher balance of probability that Labour will be the largest party in Parliament  after May 2015. Actually, there's no great surprise in this. Fisher's model is predictaed on the supposed "fact" that Labour's support gets weaker as we get closer to an Election. But it fails to account for the unique setting in the Election, which is that the LDs have ceased to exist as a credible party, and are not there as a repository of Lab protest votes in the way that they have been for the past generation. So, the underlying principle of the model is incorrect. And as a result, as Labour's support fails to collapse in the way Fisher expected it to, his prediction inexorably leads to a week-by-week improvement in Labour's outcome in 2015. Pretty f**king obvious to anyone who bothered to look into his algorithms.

[IC1967]

RedJ

Look, I know you love Billy and worship at the feet of all his utterances, but the ship has sailed. There is no point in me speaking to the lad anymore. The damage has been done and he's off to Canada.

I merely want Billy to tell us what part he played in this sorry tale. Did he try to encourage the lad to stay in the UK and tell him that if he kept trying, eventually he'd get a decent job? Or did he, as I suspect, fill his head with a load of defeatist leftie claptrap that has ended up demoralising the lad and his departure to Canada.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Red J

I really don't  get Mick. He's so determined to turn every thread into a "answer my questions or I'll thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm thick (sic)" rant. And he never believes me anyway. So when I offer him a direct approach to get his answers, you'd think he'd jump at it. But he doesn't even acknowledge the offer.

How utterly bizarre.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick.

If you'd bothered to read my original post, you'd have spotted that I "bumped into" the lad after having employed him some time ago. I haven't spoke to him since.

Anyway, he's leaving for Canada next week, but if you REALLY hurry and send than mobile number through, you can have a chat with him, explain to him carefully where he went wrong, and save him for the UK.

When you're ready.