Green Party

[coventryrover]

May sound hairy fairy but the greens have my values.  Without the earths resources and ecosystems man would be nothing, the economy wouldn't matter.  What's the point of having the shiniest New phone if the earths resources run out tomorrow.

[River Don]

May sound hairy fairy but the greens have my values.  Without the earths resources and ecosystems man would be nothing, the economy wouldn't matter.  What's the point of having the shiniest New phone if the earths resources run out tomorrow.

I quite agree. What is the point of shiny new phones? Generally that they are designed to have a life of 3 to 6 years. The product is deigned to become obsolete very quickly. Worth remembering though that the industry relies on that built in obsolescence to keep growing and keep people employed.

But let's forget all that, oil is destined to begin running out before too long. We're completely unprepared for the consequences of it. It is a finite resource and our insatiable thirst for it means we are already begining to feel the effects but so far we have barely noticed.

[IC1967]

May sound hairy fairy but the greens have my values.  Without the earths resources and ecosystems man would be nothing, the economy wouldn't matter.  What's the point of having the shiniest New phone if the earths resources run out tomorrow.

I don't call building 500,000 new social houses with all the infrastructure that goes with it looking after the earth's resources and ecosystems. That's just up to 2020. No doubt they'd want to carry on building and destroying the earth after this as well.

If they said they'd put a stop to house building and would take measures to reduce the UK's population then maybe they'd have a point true to their values.

Anyway I wouldn't get too excited by them if I were you. The only place where they have a chance of getting an MP is Brighton. Voting for them anywhere else is a waste of time and effort.

Unlike a vote for UKIP. We have the chance to take a few seats that could make a difference. A vote for UKIP is a vote for the Tories. By voting UKIP (especially in the North) there is a good chance Labour would be damaged and either the Tories or UKIP get in.

Get in.

[coventryrover]

May sound hairy fairy but the greens have my values.  Without the earths resources and ecosystems man would be nothing, the economy wouldn't matter.  What's the point of having the shiniest New phone if the earths resources run out tomorrow.

I don't call building 500,000 new social houses with all the infrastructure that goes with it looking after the earth's resources and ecosystems. That's just up to 2020. No doubt they'd want to carry on building and destroying the earth after this as well.

If they said they'd put a stop to house building and would take measures to reduce the UK's population then maybe they'd have a point true to their values.

Anyway I wouldn't get too excited by them if I were you. The only place where they have a chance of getting an MP is Brighton. Voting for them anywhere else is a waste of time and effort.

Unlike a vote for UKIP. We have the chance to take a few seats that could make a difference. A vote for UKIP is a vote for the Tories. By voting UKIP (especially in the North) there is a good chance Labour would be damaged and either the Tories or UKIP get in.

Get in.

Sustainable growth Mick. 

Politics is a changing Mick, for the better.  "  A vote for them is a wasted vote" that you spout is becoming redundant as people get fed up with the old political parties.

People should vote how they feel, bugger tactics.  Only then could we have significant change to the status quo

[coventryrover]

May sound hairy fairy but the greens have my values.  Without the earths resources and ecosystems man would be nothing, the economy wouldn't matter.  What's the point of having the shiniest New phone if the earths resources run out tomorrow.

I quite agree. What is the point of shiny new phones? Generally that they are designed to have a life of 3 to 6 years. The product is deigned to become obsolete very quickly. Worth remembering though that the industry relies on that built in obsolescence to keep growing and keep people employed.

But let's forget all that, oil is destined to begin running out before too long. We're completely unprepared for the consequences of it. It is a finite resource and our insatiable thirst for it means we are already begining to feel the effects but so far we have barely noticed.

Produce is designed to have a shelf life, to keep people employed and the profits growing.  This thirst for raw materials will have to change and the world can only be a better place for it.

[BobG]

Hear hear Cov. And that is exactly why everyone should actively and positively oppose this bloody TTIP. It's an abomination. And surprise, surprise, it's being introduced by the Tories. Now I wonder why that could be?

If anyone actually does want to know how to help opposition to it, in an extremely painless way that takes all of about 30 seconds every now and again, let me know.

BobG

[IC1967]

Hear hear Cov. And that is exactly why everyone should actively and positively oppose this bloody TTIP. It's an abomination. And surprise, surprise, it's being introduced by the Tories. Now I wonder why that could be?

If anyone actually does want to know how to help opposition to it, in an extremely painless way that takes all of about 30 seconds every now and again, let me know.

BobG

Excuse me. It is not being introduced by the Tories. Being a bit economical with the truth there aren't we?

For those of you that aren't as up on world trade like what I am, here is a brief explanation of what it is all about.

In a nutshell it's a trade agreement between the EU and the USA. It hasn't been agreed yet. It's not up to the Tories. The EU has to agree to it before we are affected. You wouldn't think so though would you reading what BobG has written.

[BobG]

Who the f*** else is introducing it then Mick? Of course it's being introduced in this country by the Tories. They support it. They sponsor it. They want it to happen. Yes it is an EU wide thing, but it is not something that the EU has the power to impose. Each and every single nation state, all 28 of them, has to separately ratify it. Individual nations can accept it or refuse it as they choose. Ergo, it's being introduced, sponsored, supported by the sodding Tories.

Even a 5 year old could find that out Mick. You? You just shoot from the hip every single time. You'll never ever have any credibility until you learn how to present your cases properly.

BobG

[IC1967]

Who the f*** else is introducing it then Mick? Of course it's being introduced in this country by the Tories. They support it. They sponsor it. They want it to happen. Yes it is an EU wide thing, but it is not something that the EU has the power to impose. Each and every single nation state, all 28 of them, has to separately ratify it. Individual nations can accept it or refuse it as they choose. Ergo, it's being introduced, sponsored, supported by the sodding Tories.

Even a 5 year old could find that out Mick. You? You just shoot from the hip every single time. You'll never ever have any credibility until you learn how to present your cases properly.

BobG

Excuse me. Please explain how the Tories can be introducing something that hasn't even by your own belated admission been agreed yet?

I think you'll find it's you that has the credibility problem.

IC1967

[BobG]

Ha ha ha ha!!

Is that the best you can do? Like I said. Incapable. Utterly incapable. I note that you have failed, very noticeably, to address the point. But then, you always do. Your incapacity to sustain any discussion is spectacular. Let's see. What's the process? Oh yes:

Mick: A wild generalisation dredged from the depths of his prejudices
A more intelligent person: a statement of a few relevant facts that prove the fatuousness of Mick's statement.
Mick: Sees he's lost the argument so ignores it and attacks the person

Honestly Mick. The shallowness of your thinking is staggering. I'm going to be very interested in what my psychiatrist friend makes of you.

BobG

[IC1967]

Ha ha ha ha!!

Is that the best you can do? Like I said. Incapable. Utterly incapable. I note that you have failed, very noticeably, to address the point. But then, you always do. Your incapacity to sustain any discussion is spectacular. Let's see. What's the process? Oh yes:

Mick: A wild generalisation dredged from the depths of his prejudices
A more intelligent person: a statement of a few relevant facts that prove the fatuousness of Mick's statement.
Mick: Sees he's lost the argument so ignores it and attacks the person

Honestly Mick. The shallowness of your thinking is staggering. I'm going to be very interested in what my psychiatrist friend makes of you.

BobG

Your the one that attacks the person all the time. I think your friend the psychiatrist would have a field day with you. You constantly accuse me of attacking the man when it is you that does this in virtually every post you do in response to my excellent points that you can't argue against.

Like I said. How can the Tories be introducing something that hasn't yet been agreed? An answer would be nice for a change instead of another attack on me.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Honestly Mick. The shallowness of your thinking is staggering. I'm going to be very interested in what my psychiatrist friend makes of you.

BobG

I don't think that psychology is anything to do with it, Bob. The more I read Mick and Boomstick's outpourings the more I come to think of them as Viking Chat's very own Philomena Cunk and Barry Sh*tpeas respectively. Sometimes you just have to resign yourself to the fact that there are people like them out there...

[Capital Steez]

Ha ha ha ha!!

Is that the best you can do? Like I said. Incapable. Utterly incapable. I note that you have failed, very noticeably, to address the point. But then, you always do. Your incapacity to sustain any discussion is spectacular. Let's see. What's the process? Oh yes:

Mick: A wild generalisation dredged from the depths of his prejudices
A more intelligent person: a statement of a few relevant facts that prove the fatuousness of Mick's statement.
Mick: Sees he's lost the argument so ignores it and attacks the person

Honestly Mick. The shallowness of your thinking is staggering. I'm going to be very interested in what my psychiatrist friend makes of you.

BobG

Your the one that attacks the person all the time. I think your friend the psychiatrist would have a field day with you. You constantly accuse me of attacking the man when it is you that does this in virtually every post you do in response to my excellent points that you can't argue against.

Like I said. How can the Tories be introducing something that hasn't yet been agreed? An answer would be nice for a change instead of another attack on me.

Mick
The official Tory line on the issue
Conservative: The TTIP aims to tackle market access issues and technical barriers to transatlantic trade and could bring an extra £10 billion to the UK each year – £400 for every household. The TTIP is part of our long term economic plan to secure a better future for Britain by promoting trade; it is not intended to open the NHS up to competition from American multinationals – any suggestion otherwise is simply scaremongering. Conservative MEPs will be monitoring the progress of negotiations extremely closely over the coming months.


Smoke and Mirrors by the Conservatives once again

[IC1967]

Like I say it has not yet been introduced. It can't have been as it hasn't yet been agreed. My initial point against BobG stands.

He claims the Tories have introduced it. They most certainly have not. It hasn't been agreed yet. Therefore it is impossible to introduce it.

It's quite simple really. He's been caught out Tory bashing and hasn't got a leg to stand on. I would have thought that even an imbecile could understand an agreement can't be introduced until it has been agreed.

The whole thing may never be agreed. It has really made my piss boil that when I expose the idiocy of his argument he and his leftie mates still try to make out he was telling the truth. Unbelievable.

[BobG]

That's because we do, actually, tell the truth mate. It's the bigotted blinkers blinding your sight that lead you astray so often.

BobG

[IC1967]

That's because we do, actually, tell the truth mate. It's the bigotted blinkers blinding your sight that lead you astray so often.

BobG

Ffs. You just can't stop attacking the man. The desperate actions of a man that has lost the argument.

You and your leftie mates may well tell the truth some of the time. Are you really still standing behind your ridiculous statement that the Tories have actually introduced it? A simple yes or no will do. Please try and answer one of my questions for a change. Why can't you lefties be like me and answer everything that is thrown at you?

[Capital Steez]

The Tories are planning to introduce it and have it set in their long term economic plan. Regardless of whether they have or haven't done it yet the key thing to take out is they want to introduce it

[IC1967]

The Tories are planning to introduce it and have it set in their long term economic plan. Regardless of whether they have or haven't done it yet the key thing to take out is they want to introduce it

So you agree that BobG is wrong. At last someone who is prepared to stand up and be counted.

A question for you. How can the Tories be planning to introduce something that hasn't yet been agreed and may never be agreed?

[Capital Steez]

They've backed it. They support the agreement of TTIP. So when agreed/finalised they plan to introduce it. That's how.

[IC1967]

They've backed it. They support the agreement of TTIP. So when agreed/finalised they plan to introduce it. That's how.

They can't back something that hasn't yet been agreed. They can back having a trade agreement with the US but until negotiations are concluded no one yet knows what will be in the final agreement.

It is impossible to back an agreement that has not yet been agreed. Being pro trade with the US is not the same thing. We'd be stupid not to want to negotiate a trade deal with the US that benefits both parties.

To summarise. There is no way on earth that the Tories have already introduced TTIP. Until a final deal has been agreed there is no way on earth that they can back it.

The Tories support bringing down trade barriers with the US. That is completely different from saying they support TTIP as I've explained above.

Now, one or two abject apologies wouldn't go amiss.

[Capital Steez]

So you are denying that the Tories support TTIP? It's common knowledge. A simple Google would show you that. Maybe put the news on for a bit.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/07/voters-want-nhs-exempt-us-trade-pact-ttip-eu-privatisation

[IC1967]

So you are denying that the Tories support TTIP? It's common knowledge. A simple Google would show you that. Maybe put the news on for a bit.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/07/voters-want-nhs-exempt-us-trade-pact-ttip-eu-privatisation

Look. It's very simple. Anyone with half a brain should support a Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) if they benefit from it. The Tories support free trade. The objective of the TTIP is to achieve this goal. I'm quite happy to say that the Tories support the 'overall objectives' of a Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). So do Labour! However this partnership has not yet been agreed. There is still a lot of negotiating to be done. Because the EU has to come up with a deal that 28 countries like it is going to be very hard work, especially since you lefties are doing a lot of scaremongering about it.

So I repeat in the vain hope that you lefties may finally understand.

TTIP has not yet been introduced.

TTIP still has years of negotiation ahead of it.

There's a good chance it will never happen.

The Tories or any other party for that matter cannot agree to something that has not yet been sorted out. Only an idiot would agree to the conclusion of a negotiation during the negotiations.

It is the EU of which we are only one member amongst 28 (and the US) that will decide if there is to be a deal. It is not just up to the Tories.

http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2014/05/21/where-uk-political-parties-stand-on-issues-important-to-38-degrees/

Got it? Get it? Good.

Now crack on with those abject apologies the lot of you and let's try and put this silliness and scaremongering behind us.

[BobG]

There are places, a few, where you would probably feel much more comfortable than on here Mick. You wouldn't learn as much, but you might get a few people stroking your ego if you hit the right extremisms.

And before you forget, go back and look at the facts (facts!) I gave in post no. 37 above about the introduction of TTIP. It's introduced by nation states. Not the EC. Each and every nation state can opt in or opt out. So, the only way it will happen here is if the governing party want it to. As they do, and have publicly said they do, it is being introduced by the Conservative party. Once you get that in your head you'll be far more able to participate sensibly in this debate.

Like has been mentioned many times on here Mick, if you did a spot of proper research before letting your prejudices hit the keyboard, you wouldn't half have a lot more impact. You could learn a lot if you took heed of even some of the advice you've been offered over the last 12 months. As it is, your level of contribution remains trivial, juvenile and without either credibility or substance. For example...

Do you actually bother to read any of these links you bombard us with? If you did, you would see, like with this latest one, that it actually destroys the rubbish you try to ram down our throats! What does this mean, Mick, about the Conservative approach to TTIP? I quote, from the Tory party, from your link, " The TTIP is part of our long term economic plan..." There it is. Black and white. From the Conservative Party. From your chosen source. So remind me, please, how your argument goes?

You really are a very poor specimen Mick. As you seem so fond of demanding apologies, I have now conclusively proved you owe one to every single contributor to this thread. Don't keep us waiting. Your response is going to show all of us your measure.

BobG

[IC1967]

There are places, a few, where you would probably feel much more comfortable than on here Mick. You wouldn't learn as much, but you might get a few people stroking your ego if you hit the right extremisms.

And before you forget, go back and look at the facts (facts!) I gave in post no. 37 above about the introduction of TTIP. It's introduced by nation states. Not the EC. Each and every nation state can opt in or opt out. So, the only way it will happen here is if the governing party want it to. As they do, and have publicly said they do, it is being introduced by the Conservative party. Once you get that in your head you'll be far more able to participate sensibly in this debate.

Like has been mentioned many times on here Mick, if you did a spot of proper research before letting your prejudices hit the keyboard, you wouldn't half have a lot more impact. You could learn a lot if you took heed of even some of the advice you've been offered over the last 12 months. As it is, your level of contribution remains trivial, juvenile and without either credibility or substance. For example...

Do you actually bother to read any of these links you bombard us with? If you did, you would see, like with this latest one, that it actually destroys the rubbish you try to ram down our throats! What does this mean, Mick, about the Conservative approach to TTIP? I quote, from the Tory party, from your link, " The TTIP is part of our long term economic plan..." There it is. Black and white. From the Conservative Party. From your chosen source. So remind me, please, how your argument goes?

You really are a very poor specimen Mick. As you seem so fond of demanding apologies, I have now conclusively proved you owe one to every single contributor to this thread. Don't keep us waiting. Your response is going to show all of us your measure.

BobG

Look. You are coming across as a right simpleton. I'll ask you one more time.

HOW CAN THE TTIP HAVE ALREADY BEEN INTRODUCED BY THE TORIES WHEN IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN AGREED ON YET?

I can't say it any simpler than that. Now get on with your abject apology before more people read the drivel you've posted and you go down even further in their estimation.

IC1967

[Capital Steez]

No one is saying it has already been introduced you muppet. It is planned to be introduced by the Tories. Fact. Stop talking wet

[IC1967]

No one is saying it has already been introduced you muppet. It is planned to be introduced by the Tories. Fact. Stop talking wet

BobG is saying it's been introduced. Read his drivel.

Now get an abject apology sorted pronto.

[wilts rover]

No one is saying it has already been introduced you muppet. It is planned to be introduced by the Tories. Fact. Stop talking wet

BobG is saying it's been introduced. Read his drivel.

Now get an abject apology sorted pronto.

I cant be bothered to read all the way through Mick, can you help me and point to Bob's post where he says TTIP has been introduced please? That's been introduced, not being introduced btw.

[IC1967]

No one is saying it has already been introduced you muppet. It is planned to be introduced by the Tories. Fact. Stop talking wet

BobG is saying it's been introduced. Read his drivel.

Now get an abject apology sorted pronto.

I cant be bothered to read all the way through Mick, can you help me and point to Bob's post where he says TTIP has been introduced please? That's been introduced, not being introduced btw.

Haha! You lefties do make me laugh. Talk about clutching at straws. Pedantry is being taken to a new level. BobG said it is being introduced by the Tories. 'Is' is the present tense. Now to any right minded person that means it's introduction has already started. He didn't say it will be introduced in the future. 'Will' is the future tense. He said it is being introduced. If he meant to say the introduction would be in the future he would have said will be introduced not is being introduced. Got it? Get it? Good.

Now I don't want to sink to your level of pedantry so I'm even prepared to let the word being be substituted for been. Let's be generous and let's say that BobG meant to say the Tories will introduce the TTIP in the future. How does he know this? He doesn't. The TTIP hasn't yet been agreed. There isn't yet a TTIP to introduce. There may never be a TTIP to introduce.

So whichever way you look at it he has made a fatuous, seriously misleading statement. Anyone that took him at his word would think that the Tories were the only ones pushing the TTIP and it was being introduced. The Tories may well not even be in power when the TTIP is agreed if it ever is. So how the hell does he know they will be introducing it?

As the voice of reason, I felt it was my duty to point out this serious slander on the Tories.

Now get an abject apology sorted pronto for a change. I don't know how many more times I have to expose leftie drivel before you start apologising.

[Capital Steez]

Everyone understood Bob's statement apart from you Mick. You've misundertood and  you are trying to save face. Save us all the bother mate and give it a rest. Go enjoy a Farage Montage on YouTube

[IC1967]

Everyone understood Bob's statement apart from you Mick. You've misundertood and  you are trying to save face. Save us all the bother mate and give it a rest. Go enjoy a Farage Montage on YouTube

Ffs! You lefties would argue black was white if you thought you could get away with it.

Here are some of BobG's statements -

'And surprise, surprise, it's being introduced by the Tories.'

'Who the f*** else is introducing it then Mick? Of course it's being introduced in this country by the Tories.'

Now these 2 statements categorically prove that BobG has not got his facts right as totally proved by my good self.

Just accept that he is wrong. It's blindingly obvious. For one last time.

IT CAN'T BE INTRODUCED YET AS IT HASN'T YET BEEN AGREED.

IT MAY NEVER BE AGREED.

IF EVER IT DOES GET INTRODUCED IT MAY WELL BE LABOUR THAT INTRODUCE IT IF THEY WIN THE NEXT ELECTION.

Now what is it that you lefties don't understand? Stop wriggling and just get on with an abject apology. As I am a magnanimous soul I will accept all apologies immediately and there will be no hard feelings. Now get on with it ffs.