Orgreave

[BillyStubbsTears]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-33091675

"If this happened now, absolutely the IPCC would be investigating it," she said."But what we can't do is wind back time to go back 30 years and redo what perhaps should have been done then."

Great eh?

You can be involved in a concerted attempt to lie and pervert the course of justice in order to get innocent men convicted of riot and sent to prison for up to 20 years, but if you can hold out for long enough, it will be brushed under the carpet.

Justice, British style.

[RobTheRover]

Agreed. Such a pathetic cop out. And what's more,  she delivered that with a straight face.

[Filo]

It's a scandal!


Does the same logic apply if you murder someone and the same passage of time occurs?

[BobG]

Or the buggers who did kiddy fiddling 30 years ago and who are now being hauled before the beaks?

BobG

[glosterred]

What about the miners that did attack the police? Are the police chasing them, no. Best leave alone I think. Not that many on here would agree.

[RobTheRover]

Exactly. They are lifting that carpet plenty high to sweep it all under. I wonder who is implicated here. My guess is the order to proceed with extreme prejudice came from Thatcher herself. We wouldn't want the Iron Lady's memory tarnishing now,  would we?

[Filo]

What about the miners that did attack the police? Are the police chasing them, no. Best leave alone I think. Not that many on here would agree.

You've fallen for the BBC's edited version of events, the Police charged and weilded battons on a peaceful picket, the Miners acted in self defence and preservation

[glosterred]

What about the miners that did attack the police? Are the police chasing them, no. Best leave alone I think. Not that many on here would agree.

You've fallen for the BBC's edited version of events, the Police charged and weilded battons on a peaceful picket, the Miners acted in self defence and preservation

And those from many yards back throwing bricks were acting in self defence? Don't think so, both side have a lot to answer for, if the police are pursued, then so should the miners who acted illegally that day.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Missing the point lads.

There WERE miners who were arrested and prosecuted for riot. The prosecutions collapsed because the police evidence was concocted and fabricated. That is prima facie evidence of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. No one has ever been held to account for that. There has never been an investigation. The decision today means that there won't be an investigation.  So whoever was behind the conspiracy has got away with it.

[IC1967]

There is already a comprehensive thread on this issue so why are you starting a new one?

Hang on. I know. It's because I gave the other side of the story and conclusively proved IT WAS THE MINERS THAT STARTED IT!!!

Gloster is right. There was right and wrong on both sides and its best now if we let the miners and police off with any any wrongdoing that occurred 30 years ago.

The country is massively in debt. The last thing we need to do is borrow some more money to pay for a public inquiry into something that most of us couldn't care less about.

http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=245451.0

[BobG]

And Gloster, just a few other things:

I personally saw a peaceful picket at Rosso Main. The cops had linked arms and were holding the miners behind their 'line'. Pleasant enough;  banter between the cops and the miners, quite a decent atmosphere. And then a car rolled up. Out stepped a cop with about 4 tons of gold braid, issues a few orders, and the cops in the line started swinging their big heavy boots into the shins of the miners behind them. Result? Pandemonium. I saw that myself. Yet it was the miners who got the blame of course.

Or the events at Armthorpe. Another picket. Another demo. Another riot. Only this time the miners all legged it and the cops went flying around after them. Well, there was a headmaster who lived pretty well opposite the main gate at Markham Main. He was standing in his front garden watching. The cops charged. He retreated indoors. The cops then proceeded to bust his front door in, screech into his house demanding to know where an alleged runaway miner was and threatened him with arrest if he told a single soul what he'd seen just 5 minutes before. He, stout fellow, refused to give the promise they demanded. So they whacked him.

Or, my old man, he was a JP in Donny. He came home one evening after a session on the bench saying that he'd had a young lad up in front of him that afternoon. The sort of lad, he said, you wouldn't mind your daughter marrying. The charge? That one tyre on his car was under inflated by 2 psi. The hidden agenda? He was a miner. Case dismissed.

Or the time the father of a mate of mine was driving down past ICI Fibres on his way to work. He was minding his own business, enjoying a sunny morning actually. A copper stepped out into the road in front of him with his hand up to stop. So he stopped. Copper opens the door, reaches in, switches off the engine and takes the ignition key.  'What  the hell...?!" "You're nicked. Come with me". My mates dad then spent all morning and most of the afternoon in the cells at Donny nick while the plod failed to work out that the aeroplane in the sky had defective binoculars.  They were reading number plates, nicking miners. My mates dad worked on the railways.... No apology. No nothing.

The coppers were as bent as a nine bob note during that strike - and I'm bloody sure, in my own mind, that it was politically inspired. And that's why this review could never be allowed to happen.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob

I've mentioned before on here a bloke I used to play cricket with. Rough as a bear's arse but absolutely straight, honest and hardworking.

He was arrested for riot in the first week of the Strike. Had the charge hanging over him for 18 months. Lost his job (wasn't allowed back to work after the strike because of this arrest). Marriage broke up under the stress. He ended up doing Auf Wiedersehn type jobbing work in London and drinking heavily. Died at 40 years old.

And the riot charge? Oh aye. It was dropped and no prosecution was ever brought.

[Filo]

My Father in Law lived 50 yards from the end of Hatfield pit lane, he still does. He was a Foreman at Rockware Glass, every morning at 5am going to work on Days he was given the 3rd degree by the Cops, every morning at just after 6am coming off nights he was stopped from getting home, they forced him to leave his car and walk home through the backs, they never did tell him what crime he was committing in his attempt to get home from work!

[BobG]

Actually, there's another angle to all this isn't there? I, at least, simply do not trust police. Individually, they can be really great people. Supportive, caring, responsive. Collectively? Well, let's just remember Jean Charles de Menezes. How many people is it this last 25 years that have been shot and killed erroneously by the police? It's a staggeringly big number. How many people have been prosecuted as a result? Err. None. 

I don't trust the police. Yet, I'm a  middle aged, middle class bloke. I ought to be part of the bedrock of those that support law 'n' order in this country. But I don't.  An enquiry like this one the politicians have refused simply reinforces the negative impressions of the police as a group that have littered my life. from Hillsborough (remember the wonderfully convenient disappearance, on the very day of the disaster,  of the official film of the events of that awful day? Wonder how that might have happened? Or who might have been responsible?) to Orgreave, Menezes to the guy with the chair leg on Tottenham Court Road or the guy in bed in Brighton, or the guy in the car at a roundabout in Coventry, all shot dead for no reason at all, that git who pushed that fellow over, and killed him during the G8 (or whatever summit it was), Rosso Main to 'sus', and a million more besides, the police are not worthy of our support. They have not earned it. They get it only through fear and desperation. Not through service or honesty or public spiritedness.

This enquiry would have gone a reasonable way to dispel some of that distrust.  But no. Can't have the establishment shown up for lying b*****ds can we?

BobG

Update: Police have shot and killed 44 people in this country since 1985. 35 people  since 1995. Another 5 were killed in a riot in Armagh in 1969. Some of these people were undoubtedly armed and dangerous. But some, equally undoubtedly, were not. And in no case has anyone ever been convicted despite some atrocious circumstances. Just one example: an unarmed guy, in bed, naked, with his girlfriend. Shot dead.  No one has ever been required to answer for that in a court of law.

There is a very long term conspiracy around the police in this country. Think about it,. How often are they ever found to have been in the wrong on matters of serious importance? Hillsborough is one where they have been found to be in the wrong - yet it took 25 years and the efforts of thousands and thousands of people to get this country to notice. No one has ever paid a price for shooting, killing, unarmed people. Yes. People. They've shot and killed women too. No one ever notices that since about 1995 the rate of killings has been, and continues, to escalate at a huge rate. We continue, decade after decade, to allow the police to get away with murder more and more frequently.  And I mean that phrase in every single way you read it.

I've got a cracking photograph of a sign put up by the staff at Notting Hill Gate tube station on 26th July 2005. It was on one of those white boards they use. It said:

Date: 26th July
Time: All day

Notice to all passengers

Please do NOT run on the platforms or concourses. Especially if you are carrying a rucksack, wearing a big coat or look a bit foreign. This notice is for your own safety. Thank you.

Just think about that. What sort of circumstances is it that would prompt a set of railway employees to put up a notice like that? It's shameful.

[Savvy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-33091675

"If this happened now, absolutely the IPCC would be investigating it," she said."But what we can't do is wind back time to go back 30 years and redo what perhaps should have been done then."

Great eh?

You can be involved in a concerted attempt to lie and pervert the course of justice in order to get innocent men convicted of riot and sent to prison for up to 20 years, but if you can hold out for long enough, it will be brushed under the carpet.

Justice, British style.

Would be put down as mere "high spirits" nowadays, police haven't the minerals to act like that nowadays!!!

[IC1967]

Look. You leftie nutters need to get behind our boys and girls in blue. They do an amazing job for which we should all be grateful.

Trying to undermine their morale by slagging them off all the time is reprehensible behaviour.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Filo]

Or the buggers who did kiddy fiddling 30 years ago and who are now being hauled before the beaks?

BobG

Yep, peadophiles are being arrested and convicted of events that happened up to 50 years ago, and rightly so. Nazi war criminals can be tried and convicted of crimes that happened in other Country's over 70 years ago. What makes the 30 year passage of time a barrier to the Orgreave events?


Possibly the fact that it was a Tory Government at the time and they were directing operations and violence against the Miners?

[IC1967]

You lefties would have more credibility if you also wanted the miners that started the whole thing off investigated and prosecuted as well. Of course you don't. You are just bothered about painting the police as the villains of the piece and the miners as the saints.

Let's recall what actually happened. The miners bombarded the Police with bricks and stones. This is what started the whole confrontation off. A few officers may have used excessive force, but they were under extreme provocation.

Given this was what happened I think it's fair that no further action is taken against the guilty miners and the guilty Police.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

IC1967 (the one and only)

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

Especially when conspiracy to pervert the course of justice is one of the most serious offences in the book. If you turn a blind eye to police conspiring to pervert the course of justice, you're on the slipperiest of slopes.

[Dagenham Rover]

You lefties would have more credibility if you also wanted the miners that started the whole thing off investigated and prosecuted as well. Of course you don't. You are just bothered about painting the police as the villains of the piece and the miners as the saints.

Let's recall what actually happened. The miners bombarded the Police with bricks and stones. This is what started the whole confrontation off. A few officers may have used excessive force, but they were under extreme provocation.

Given this was what happened I think it's fair that no further action is taken against the guilty miners and the guilty Police.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

IC1967 (the one and only)

You know nothing fella, I presume you watched all the reverse films and stuff and make your assumptions from that .......Love from somebody who knows from an angle that may surprise you and no I'm not clarifying any further however I wasn't in the police ...........

[IC1967]

You lefties would have more credibility if you also wanted the miners that started the whole thing off investigated and prosecuted as well. Of course you don't. You are just bothered about painting the police as the villains of the piece and the miners as the saints.

Let's recall what actually happened. The miners bombarded the Police with bricks and stones. This is what started the whole confrontation off. A few officers may have used excessive force, but they were under extreme provocation.

Given this was what happened I think it's fair that no further action is taken against the guilty miners and the guilty Police.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

IC1967 (the one and only)

You know nothing fella, I presume you watched all the reverse films and stuff and make your assumptions from that .......Love from somebody who knows from an angle that may surprise you and no I'm not clarifying any further however I wasn't in the police ...........

I know enough to know there was wrongdoing on both sides. You lefties make my piss boil in that you only criticise the Police. Let's have a bit of balance. You do know that half a million pounds of taxpayers money was paid to the miners as compensation. That's not a bad result for them as far as I'm concerned. The injured Police got nothing.

Go figure.

IC1967 (the one and only)

[BillyStubbsTears]

You lefties would have more credibility if you also wanted the miners that started the whole thing off investigated and prosecuted as well. Of course you don't. You are just bothered about painting the police as the villains of the piece and the miners as the saints.

Let's recall what actually happened. The miners bombarded the Police with bricks and stones. This is what started the whole confrontation off. A few officers may have used excessive force, but they were under extreme provocation.

Given this was what happened I think it's fair that no further action is taken against the guilty miners and the guilty Police.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

IC1967 (the one and only)

You know nothing fella, I presume you watched all the reverse films and stuff and make your assumptions from that .......Love from somebody who knows from an angle that may surprise you and no I'm not clarifying any further however I wasn't in the police ...........

http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=252813.msg548215#msg548215

DR. That means EVERYBODY!

He is incapable of forming and following a logical argument. In this case, the issue is that miners WERE arrested and prosecuted and that the prosecutions failed because of what (on the face of it) appears to be strong evidence of criminal activity by the police. The issue is not about who chucked rocks and who stoved in heads. It is about whether a concerted criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice should be prosecuted or swept under the carpet.

Our resident idiot cannot cope with logic like that, so he skews the discussion to something else. THAT is why it is important that we simply ignore him and wait for him to vanish in a cloud of boiled piss.

Just keep schtum and ignore him.

[NickDRFC]

Careful Billy, BobG will be pouncing soon on your incorrect use of capital letters for "resident idiot"!

[IC1967]

You lefties would have more credibility if you also wanted the miners that started the whole thing off investigated and prosecuted as well. Of course you don't. You are just bothered about painting the police as the villains of the piece and the miners as the saints.

Let's recall what actually happened. The miners bombarded the Police with bricks and stones. This is what started the whole confrontation off. A few officers may have used excessive force, but they were under extreme provocation.

Given this was what happened I think it's fair that no further action is taken against the guilty miners and the guilty Police.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

IC1967 (the one and only)

You know nothing fella, I presume you watched all the reverse films and stuff and make your assumptions from that .......Love from somebody who knows from an angle that may surprise you and no I'm not clarifying any further however I wasn't in the police ...........

http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=252813.msg548215#msg548215

DR. That means EVERYBODY!

He is incapable of forming and following a logical argument. In this case, the issue is that miners WERE arrested and prosecuted and that the prosecutions failed because of what (on the face of it) appears to be strong evidence of criminal activity by the police. The issue is not about who chucked rocks and who stoved in heads. It is about whether a concerted criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice should be prosecuted or swept under the carpet.

Our resident idiot cannot cope with logic like that, so he skews the discussion to something else. THAT is why it is important that we simply ignore him and wait for him to vanish in a cloud of boiled piss.

Just keep schtum and ignore him.

Who the feck do you think you are telling people what to do and then having a go at them if they partake in a debate. You are a total loser. You only want your voice and opinion to prevail. If DR has some evidence that the 10,000 miners didn't start it the we are all ears.

You twist the debate and take it totally out of context. What started the confrontation is crucial to the debate. Many of the 10,000 miners weren't there to picket peacefully as you well know. Some of them started chucking bricks, bottles etc at the heavily outnumbered Poilce. Did you expect them to just take it? If you'd just seen your mate with a stoved in head from a brick thrown by a miner do you not think you'd be a bit annoyed?

The Police did what they did to stop further colleagues being attacked. It got out of hand. There was wrongdoing on both sides. The miners got half a million (a lot of money in those days). The Police got nothing. No miner was convicted for any wrongdoing.

Get over it and accept that there has been a rough justice and we don't need to dig up the past. If you insist on it then may I suggest the guilty miners are brought forward. The decent miners know who they are. Until that happens may I suggest you back off the Police and move on.

You are a typical leftie that only sees things one way. If people don't wholeheartedly support your view you can't handle it. It's time you grew up.

The voice of reason will not be silenced.

IC1967 (the one and only)

[BobG]

Hey Nick

There is most definitely a certain method in that particular madness! And no. I won't be aiming any such barbs at others - just the buffoon who thinks he has sufficient knowledge and intelligence to enter into discussion with grown men. When he learns how to use capital letters his high horse will begin to look slightly less bizarre.  But he is our Resident Idiot after all. Do you reckon he'll ever learn?

Cheers

Bob

[RobTheRover]

Well, let's just remember Jean Charles de Menezes.

I was at a meeting in York that day.  I've never felt so in fear of my life that day as I did travelling home.  Not from "foreign looking" chaps with backpacks, but from armed Police all over York Railway Station and clearly on edge, looking everyone in the eyes.  I just felt one wrong glance could be all it took to take a bullet.

[wilts rover]

Would IC1967 care to confirm whether or not he has a relative in the police force by any chance?

[Yargo]

Would IC1967 care to confirm whether or not he has a relative in the police force by any chance?

He is the police,along with being a multimillionaire and local UKIP leading representative although i'm not so sure seeing as he obviously gets his political education from watching Jade Goody

[IC1967]

Would IC1967 care to confirm whether or not he has a relative in the police force by any chance?

He is the police,along with being a multimillionaire and local UKIP leading representative although i'm not so sure seeing as he obviously gets his political education from watching Jade Goody

Look. If you're not careful you'll have daft Bob after you. You need to make sure you have a space between each word. Your drivel should also be two sentences not one. You should also make sure you end each sentence with a full stop. However, your biggest crime and the one that will have daft Bob spitting feathers is your failure to use capital letters properly. i'm should be I'm.

One other thing. Jade died years ago from cancer. She was a typical Labour voter. So we had nothing in common.

IC1967 (the one and only)

[wilts rover]

I take it that's a yes then. A member of Humberside Constabulary who posts on here from time to time I believe?