Orgreave

[ravenrover]

Well that brought proceedings to full stop!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why is it important Raven?

[ravenrover]

It's not BST, I was just interested.

[wing commander]

    I find this topic hard to come to a conclusion on I must admit...On one hand,even as a person who has never been in any trouble I have zero respect for the Police..They only go for easy targets who can pay fines while real criminals don't seem to get touched unless they fall into their laps...The evidence points to victimisation and foul play at Orgreave...
    That said, in balance I once worked with a couple of guys who had never been a miner who claimed they and thier mates were paid to go and cause trouble on picket lines including Orgreave..He claimed a mini bus used to pick them up everyday from all over Doncaster and take them to were it was anticipated publicity might be gained the most...
   30 years is a long time and I don't tend to believe there outcomes as they are politically motivated..Take Hillsbrough..2 enquiry's two different results based on what serves them best at the time,when I believe the truth meets in the middle...Emotive subjects though I appreciate...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wing Co

Sorry mate but you are entirely missing the point. The question at hand is nothing about who was responsible for what on the picket line. It is who was responsible for the deliberate and concerted attempt to pervert the course of justice, including fabrication of evidence that was used in an attempt to get men sent to prison, potentially for life. It's about who took the decision to instruct officers to write deliberate untruths in their statements. Who decided to have nameless senior officers dictate statements to officers.

That is a far, far bigger issue than who hit whom in a field 30 years ago. It goes to the core of our democratic institutions.

[wing commander]

Yes I understand your point and agree with what your saying...I just think these enquiries offer lip service with no accountability..It will be interesting to see if prosecutions and how many come out of the Hillsboro enquiry...I suspect not many...

[Sprotyrover]

Don't worry if you want to see a good old fashioned blood letting you will get it when the Chilcot report is released.

[BobG]

Oh yes. But only because it's popular, easy and politically convenient to have a right old go at Tony Blair. And the Labour Party will be damned by implication too.

BobG

[albie]

Looks like a head of steam building on Orgreave;
Downing Street ‘used police and courts to smear Orgreave miners’ | Politics | The Guardian

This needs to be addressed, ASAP.

The Human Rights Act was very helpful in the Hillsborough case. It will also help an investigation into Orgreave, but it is under threat from the Government at the minute.

[Sprotyrover]

Not in this Governments lifetime it won't.

[albie]

Looks like October for a start;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/15/orgreave-miners-strike-inquiry-will-go-ahead

Donny Free Press has the same story.

[Sprotyrover]

Well I just hope The Govt foots the entire bill or this one nd not the Rate payer of South Yorkshire.

[Sprotyrover]

Amber Rudd has ruled out a Public enqiry on cost grounds there may be a small one around additional Govt papers being released, Don't hold your breathe!

[donnyproletarian]

You lefties would have more credibility if you also wanted the miners that started the whole thing off investigated and prosecuted as well. Of course you don't. You are just bothered about painting the police as the villains of the piece and the miners as the saints.

Let's recall what actually happened. The miners bombarded the Police with bricks and stones. This is what started the whole confrontation off. A few officers may have used excessive force, but they were under extreme provocation.

Given this was what happened I think it's fair that no further action is taken against the guilty miners and the guilty Police.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

IC1967 (the one and only)

You know nothing fella, I presume you watched all the reverse films and stuff and make your assumptions from that .......Love from somebody who knows from an angle that may surprise you and no I'm not clarifying any further however I wasn't in the police ...........

I know enough to know there was wrongdoing on both sides. You lefties make my piss boil in that you only criticise the Police. Let's have a bit of balance. You do know that half a million pounds of taxpayers money was paid to the miners as compensation. That's not a bad result for them as far as I'm concerned. The injured Police got nothing.

Go figure.

IC1967 (the one and only)

I suppose you have got a point .We should not only criticise the police but the soldiers dressed in police uniform .Like the guy from conisbrough who was supposed to be serving in northern Ireland  but came face to face with his striking miner dad hiding under a hedge. Many of them no number and under the regulation hight at the time.Of course this will never be made public as they will be used again in future strikes when the state is threatened .

[Sprotyrover]

You lefties would have more credibility if you also wanted the miners that started the whole thing off investigated and prosecuted as well. Of course you don't. You are just bothered about painting the police as the villains of the piece and the miners as the saints.

Let's recall what actually happened. The miners bombarded the Police with bricks and stones. This is what started the whole confrontation off. A few officers may have used excessive force, but they were under extreme provocation.

Given this was what happened I think it's fair that no further action is taken against the guilty miners and the guilty Police.

Time to move on. Nothing more to see here.

IC1967 (the one and only)

You know nothing fella, I presume you watched all the reverse films and stuff and make your assumptions from that .......Love from somebody who knows from an angle that may surprise you and no I'm not clarifying any further however I wasn't in the police ...........

I know enough to know there was wrongdoing on both sides. You lefties make my piss boil in that you only criticise the Police. Let's have a bit of balance. You do know that half a million pounds of taxpayers money was paid to the miners as compensation. That's not a bad result for them as far as I'm concerned. The injured Police got nothing.

Go figure.

IC1967 (the one and only)

I suppose you have got a point .We should not only criticise the police but the soldiers dressed in police uniform .Like the guy from conisbrough who was supposed to be serving in northern Ireland  but came face to face with his striking miner dad hiding under a hedge. Many of them no number and under the regulation hight at the time.Of course this will never be made public as they will be used again in future strikes when the state is threatened .

The Earth is flat too! Where are all of these Sqaddies who were used in the miners strike,Not one has ever come forwards,maybe they were all gassed by Adolf Hitler in Brasil!!!

[GM-MarkB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37562740

Not sure how 'trustworthy' the reporting is, but still an unteresting read

[Sprotyrover]

 Nothing of interest there, I met a guy from Dorset last week who told me he had been at Orgreave,5,000 mostly retired coppers to find and interview! Mission impossible and not in the public interest due to cost.
God knows how many ex miners were there, but it will be interesting to see all of the beardy lefty t**ts come out of the woodwork.

[StocktonRover]

Nothing of interest there, I met a guy from Dorset last week who told me he had been at Orgreave,5,000 mostly retired coppers to find and interview! Mission impossible and not in the public interest due to cost.
God knows how many ex miners were there, but it will be interesting to see all of the beardy lefty t**ts come out of the woodwork.

Sporty,
Apologies if I've misinterpreted your post but are you saying ex miners are "beardy lefty t**ts"?

As an ex miner I resent the jibe and would whole heartedly welcome a full investigation irrespective of the cost. Why should wrongdoing, perverting the course of justice, political interference, media lies, etc be covered up because of cost (other than its embarrassing for the police and government.

It's things like Hillsborough and orgreave that need to be be investigated fully to prevent the institutionalised cover ups going forward.

[Sprotyrover]

Stockton, my dad was a miner, his name is on the Pit  wheel at Brodsworth memorial.
 I refer to the beardy lefty twits who were the from Sheffield Police watch and the 300 odd from the 'Camden town action group' and all of the other numerous left wing no Gooders that were about at the time.
I have every simpathy for the Miners who were poorly led by that that self serving t**t Scargill who is still screwing what remains of the NUM for every Penny he can get.

[wilts rover]

Stockton, my dad was a miner, his name is on the Pit  wheel at Brodsworth memorial.
 I refer to the beardy lefty twits who were the from Sheffield Police watch and the 300 odd from the 'Camden town action group' and all of the other numerous left wing no Gooders that were about at the time.
I have every simpathy for the Miners who were poorly led by that that self serving t**t Scargill who is still screwing what remains of the NUM for every Penny he can get.

All very interesting but none of which has any relevance whatsoever to the actions of the police at Orgreave and in subsequent descriptions of those actions. Specifically - to what orders were they acting and who gave those orders? The bloke who doesn't want the inquiry by any chance?

Our police should be there to protect us and uphold the law of the country. If they were not doing that, if indeed they were attempting to 'frame' members of the public and then lie about it afterwards, then we, the public have a right to know - whatever the cost.

[BobG]

You know what makes me laugh out loud sometimes? The memory of that quaint notion that this is a 'free country'. It's utter rubbish isn't it? This year alone there's been an absolute shed load of examples of institutions acting to support institutional members at the expense of everyone else. Yet here we have an example of a public and publicly funded body ordering its employees to commit criminal offences and then acting, over decades, to pervert the course of justice - both of which seriously undermine the democratic principle - yet Sproty says it costs too much money to bother investigating. Nice one brother. Principle is sold to the lowest bidder.

BobG

[Sprotyrover]

Stockton, my dad was a miner, his name is on the Pit  wheel at Brodsworth memorial.
 I refer to the beardy lefty twits who were the from Sheffield Police watch and the 300 odd from the 'Camden town action group' and all of the other numerous left wing no Gooders that were about at the time.
I have every simpathy for the Miners who were poorly led by that that self serving t**t Scargill who is still screwing what remains of the NUM for every Penny he can get.

All very interesting but none of which has any relevance whatsoever to the actions of the police at Orgreave and in subsequent descriptions of those actions. Specifically - to what orders were they acting and who gave those orders? The bloke who doesn't want the inquiry by any chance?

Our police should be there to protect us and uphold the law of the country. If they were not doing that, if indeed they were attempting to 'frame' members of the public and then lie about it afterwards, then we, the public have a right to know - whatever the cost.

Good god Wilts how old do you think the Police commanders at Orgreave where?
It is 32 years ago! Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe Margaret Thatcher is dead and Peter Wright the Former Chief Constable is also pushing up Daisies.
A public enquiry will run on for a minimum of 5 years by which time 50% of all who were a Orgreave will be gone.
This will cost millions and will go nowhere.

[bobjimwilly]

It's not just about those involved in Orgreave; it's about those in power right now that may think they can get away with similar despicable conspiracies.

[wilts rover]

If only they had listened to you before they did the Hillsborough inquiry - think of all the money they would have saved.

And the Iraq War - years ago, who cares.

It will cost as much as a new propeller for these new subs or a chimney at Hinckley Point if you want to put a price on democracy and accountability. If you are happy in an unaccountable police state, North Korea is that way.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Was anybody on here actually at orgreave and did they see what happened for themselves?. What i see is bits of pictures of miners getting dragged all over or hit over the head on programmes like calendar.
It was before my time in that i was too young to understand what was going on. I have read about the awful times the miners had having little to eat, not being able to pay the bills. My local area had the soup kitchens, the presents donated for at least some sort of christmas for the kids.

I remember the local school producing dinners throughout the school holidays. At the time i didn't understand why it was happening, i was really young!.
Has it been proven that our armed forces were involved dressed up as police?. Do many of you still hold a grudge against those who went back to work early, or do you understand now the years have passed?.
My aunty has told us over the years just how tough it was just to keep them all fed, her bills had to be deferred. Do you feel any animosity towards scargill who seems to have profitted with a flat in london, or do you think he deserved it after the service he gave?.
Did it effect your families negatively in that since then nothing has been quite the same?. I'm just interested because at the time my dad had finished as a miner with his health, so we didn't feel what many of you will have done.

[Sprotyrover]

If only they had listened to you before they did the Hillsborough inquiry - think of all the money they would have saved.

And the Iraq War - years ago, who cares.

It will cost as much as a new propeller for these new subs or a chimney at Hinckley Point if you want to put a price on democracy and accountability. If you are happy in an unaccountable police state, North Korea is that way.

I don't know how you can compare the worlds greatest democracy to a Parriah state like North Korea.

[wilts rover]

If only they had listened to you before they did the Hillsborough inquiry - think of all the money they would have saved.

And the Iraq War - years ago, who cares.

It will cost as much as a new propeller for these new subs or a chimney at Hinckley Point if you want to put a price on democracy and accountability. If you are happy in an unaccountable police state, North Korea is that way.

I don't know how you can compare the worlds greatest democracy to a Parriah state like North Korea.

I'm not. I am comparing the ideology of what a state can and cannot do in your posts to that of North Korea and finding it remarkably similar.

[Sprotyrover]

If only they had listened to you before they did the Hillsborough inquiry - think of all the money they would have saved.

And the Iraq War - years ago, who cares.

It will cost as much as a new propeller for these new subs or a chimney at Hinckley Point if you want to put a price on democracy and accountability. If you are happy in an unaccountable police state, North Korea is that way.

I don't know how you can compare the worlds greatest democracy to a Parriah state like North Korea.

I'm not. I am comparing the ideology of what a state can and cannot do in your posts to that of North Korea and finding it remarkably similar.

Wilts stalker! You are mad Mick and I claim my £5 😃

[wilts rover]

If only they had listened to you before they did the Hillsborough inquiry - think of all the money they would have saved.

And the Iraq War - years ago, who cares.

It will cost as much as a new propeller for these new subs or a chimney at Hinckley Point if you want to put a price on democracy and accountability. If you are happy in an unaccountable police state, North Korea is that way.

I don't know how you can compare the worlds greatest democracy to a Parriah state like North Korea.

I'm not. I am comparing the ideology of what a state can and cannot do in your posts to that of North Korea and finding it remarkably similar.

Wilts stalker! You are mad Mick and I claim my £5 😃

I would say good luck in collecting it - but you will probably just accuse me of stalking by replying to posts aimed at me!

[Sprotyrover]

If only they had listened to you before they did the Hillsborough inquiry - think of all the money they would have saved.

And the Iraq War - years ago, who cares.

It will cost as much as a new propeller for these new subs or a chimney at Hinckley Point if you want to put a price on democracy and accountability. If you are happy in an unaccountable police state, North Korea is that way.

I don't know how you can compare the worlds greatest democracy to a Parriah state like North Korea.

I'm not. I am comparing the ideology of what a state can and cannot do in your posts to that of North Korea and finding it remarkably similar.

Wilts stalker! You are mad Mick and I claim my £5 😃

I would say good luck in collecting it - but you will probably just accuse me of stalking by replying to posts aimed at me!

Sorry, I do not know who you are ,we have never met and I would like our relationship to stay that way!😉