Battle of Hatfield 633ad

[Sprotyrover]

Any local history Buffs out there who know some info on the Battle of Hatfield.?
The folk of Cuckney in Notts are trying to claim that the Battle was fought at Cuckney not Hatfield.
They have even got funding and set up the Battle of Hatfield investigation group.
From what I have seen they are merely trying to discredit any claim for the battle site in Yorkshire
You can rest assured that The 'Sprotmeister' can put them right 😉

[glosterred]

Could be in retaliation for nicking Robin Hood for the airport name

[Filo]

Any local history Buffs out there who know some info on the Battle of Hatfield.?
The folk of Cuckney in Notts are trying to claim that the Battle was fought at Cuckney not Hatfield.
They have even got funding and set up the Battle of Hatfield investigation group.
From what I have seen they are merely trying to discredit any claim for the battle site in Yorkshire
You can rest assured that The 'Sprotmeister' can put them right 😉

I'm led to believe there's a Burial Mound in the field opposite the Chase pub on the A18, the Battle was actually called the Battle of Hatfield Chase and is thought to have been fought around the Tudworth area just down the road from the Green Tree. The River Don at that time flowed into a great mere that covered south of Thorne right over to the Isle of Axholme

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hatfield_Chase

[wilts rover]

Good luck to 'em. The battle is very well documented in contemporary literature, as the Battle of Haethfield, by Bede and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (not that I have read it in the original) but no one has yet identified where it was actually fought.

Bede says that it was on a plain, which immediately takes it away from Hatfield Chase as the bits that weren't part of the forest would have been underwater in that time.

Max Adams in 'The King of the North' goes with...'an area between Sprotborough, Brodsworth and North Elmsall, at the centre of which there is a Raven Hill, which would have been a suitable location for carrion birds to look down on the bloody field of battle'.

So there you go. Get out there with your metal detector and let us know if you find anything.

[drfchound]

Lets get the spelling right first lads.
It was the Hatfield Chace, not Chase.

The name on the pub on the corner says Chase and it surprises me that whoever came up with the name didn't research properly before naming it.

The Chace was a Royal Hunting ground in days gone by and in recent years the name has been corrupted to the current "Chase."
Also, supposedly linked to the battle is a burial pit in Hatfield Woodhouse on the now named Slaypit Lane.

[wilts rover]

Originally is a difficult concept when it comes to history tho Hound. As I put above the Saxons say the battle was at Haethfield - so that immediately means your Hatfield is not 'original', never mind Chase or Chace.

I have photocopies of all the original documents relating to the drainage of the area in the 1600's at my mothers so will have to have a look at what it is called the next time I am up (end of the month Walsall game), in the meantime this is a poster from 1872 from the Hatfield Chase Corporation Archive

www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/collectionsindepth/water/hatfieldchase.aspx

[drfchound]

An interesting poster wilts.
My information was given to me from my school days and a local historian.
The wording "Chace" comes from much further back than the date of the poster you have shown though, considerably previouslly to the draining of the land by Vermuyden which as you say was in the 1600's.

On the subject of Vermuyden, someone i know who lives at Thorne Waterside had a large extension built on their house a few years ago which meant dismantling part of the roof.
A large "A frame" section of the roof had to be removed and the timbers it consisted of were allegedly from one of Mr Vermuydens ships.
The timbers were re-used in the house alterations.

[tommy toes]

I read 'King in the North' too Wilts and Max Adams gives a convincing argument that the battle was somewhere near the Roman Ridge around Scawsby/ Sprotbrough.

[tommy toes]

It's a while since I read this book but wasn't Oswald or one of the other 'Kings' killed at another huge battle near Bawtry.

[wilts rover]

That's sort of right Tommy. King Aethelfrith of Northumbria was defeated and killed in a battle 'between the Trent and the Idle' supposedly around Bawtry. Barrow Hill is thought to be where the casualties were buried.

Aethefrith was defeated by a joint force of King Raedwald of East Anglia and Edwin of Northumbria. Edwin went on to assume the throne of Northumbria and it was he who was killed at Hatfield by Penda of Mercia and Cadwallon of Gwynedd. Oswald then replaced Edwin as King of Northumbria.

[tommy toes]

Thanks Wilts, great stuff! These were fascinating times that shaped our History.
Thank God for Bede and the Anglo Saxon Chronicles...and the Historians who make sense of it.

[Sprotyrover]

A couple of things puzzling me,the Ravenhill mentioned in King in the North,where is it,I have lived all my life in the area Max Adams claims is the battle sight but I can't place it.
I do know that the Saxons used the Long Barrow at King Hengist wood,and there is a bit of a hill with a wood called King Hengist Rhein nearby.
A recent article in the guardian showed the ethnic break down of the region is unchanged since 600 AD most of us West of Hatfield are of Britonic not Saxon,Danish,Roman,or Norman ancestry.
The division falls in nicely with a map of the ancient British Kingdom of Elmet.
I understand that Elmet had been subjugated about 615 and in 633 most of it was populated by Britons with an axe to grind.
Hatfield was a tiny sub Kingdom called Meicen,including Wroot and Misson
It was a client kingdom of Deira which also controlled Lindsay and therefore linked Deira and Lindsay,
You could sail from York to Hatfiled,Lincoln to Hatfield,The Humber to Hatfield.
It makes sense for Edwin to be based there near the Rivers which could provide an escape or reinforcements ,in relatively friendly territory.
Cadwalan and Penda came over the Pennines from Chester on the old Roman Road,no doubt gathering recruits from disgruntled Brits in the Peak and Elmet.
Most battles in this period were fought where such a road crossed a river
So I wonder if it occurred further south near Bawtry,or did they catch Edwin by surprise at Hatfield.
 

[wilts rover]

Or the Roman Road that runs past Sprotborough maybe?

The book is well worth getting if you are interested in the Anglo Saxon period and Northumbria in particuar. You can access some of it on line and this is the bit about Raven Hill.

I dont know the area well enough to help - I was hoping you were going to be our local expert! It must be an old name that has fallen out of use, the Victorian OS maps are a good place to start.

[Sprotyrover]

The best spot in the region mentioned is Scawsby Lees a couple of armies have camped there in the past, including the Pilgramage of Grace,straddles the Roman road,you can see your enemy from miles away and can attack as they try to cross the Don there is afield there called Broad axe field between the ridge and the great north road.

[Sammy Chung was King]

A period of history that confuses the hell out of me, half of them were brothers the other half cousins, fighting each other, it's like a Barnsley family fighting over the Kendray estate!.

[Sprotyrover]

Just discovered that Ravenhill is now called Richmond Hill!

[idler]

Rickie Richmond Hill sounds a bit posh though doesn't it?

[bally1950]

Hatfield was originally called Heathfield and that name is held by the new Health Centre.
Hatfield Chase P.H. was called Hatfield Chace when it first opened and mine hosts were George and Eva Simm, their son George played for Donny Intermediates and he now lives in Pickering with his Dunscroft born wife. Jillian,  George jnr is off Broadway and his mam and dad owned the chippy near the Regal. (well we are talking history)

Peter Etherington R.I.P was the landlord when the pub was called Chace as was Mark and Karen and later Andrea and Mark, then it had a major revamp about 7 years ago and it is now Chase??????

The burial mound is protected and it cannot be ploughed on nor built on, all the field around it is ploughed and there are houses behind it.  So Hound is correct in what he is telling you.

If you think that is confusing...Stainforth was a Roman encampment and was part of the Conisborough Camp... Strange but True

[drfchound]

Stainfirth was originally known as Stony Ford.

[bally1950]

I did not know that... and I went to school there (says a lot that does)

[Filo]

The ford at Stony ford was where the fislake bridge now stands

[drfchound]

Correct.
Local history is fascinating.
The original settlement there was along the river bank.

[idler]

Hatfield was originally called Heathfield and that name is held by the new Health Centre.
Hatfield Chase P.H. was called Hatfield Chace when it first opened and mine hosts were George and Eva Simm, their son George played for Donny Intermediates and he now lives in Pickering with his Dunscroft born wife. Jillian,  George jnr is off Broadway and his mam and dad owned the chippy near the Regal. (well we are talking history)

Peter Etherington R.I.P was the landlord when the pub was called Chace as was Mark and Karen and later Andrea and Mark, then it had a major revamp about 7 years ago and it is now Chase??????

The burial mound is protected and it cannot be ploughed on nor built on, all the field around it is ploughed and there are houses behind it.  So Hound is correct in what he is telling you.

If you think that is confusing...Stainforth was a Roman encampment and was part of the Conisborough Camp... Strange but True

In the mid-sixties Ces Stirland the ex-Rovers full back was the landlord.
We used to do all of Darleys pubs plumbing and heating.

[bally1950]

That may have been when George and Eva took The Sheffield Arms at Burton on Stather

[idler]

We worked there as well in 1966.
I remember dashing back from there to get to Valley Parade for our final match of that season. Happy days.

[turnbull for england]

Hatfield was originally called Heathfield and that name is held by the new Health Centre.
Hatfield Chase P.H. was called Hatfield Chace when it first opened and mine hosts were George and Eva Simm, their son George played for Donny Intermediates and he now lives in Pickering with his Dunscroft born wife. Jillian,  George jnr is off Broadway and his mam and dad owned the chippy near the Regal. (well we are talking history)

Peter Etherington R.I.P was the landlord when the pub was called Chace as was Mark and Karen and later Andrea and Mark, then it had a major revamp about 7 years ago and it is now Chase??????

The burial mound is protected and it cannot be ploughed on nor built on, all the field around it is ploughed and there are houses behind it.  So Hound is correct in what he is telling you.

If you think that is confusing...Stainforth was a Roman encampment and was part of the Conisborough Camp... Strange but True

In the mid-sixties Ces Stirland the ex-Rovers full back was the landlord.
We used to do all of Darleys pubs plumbing and heating.


did you use to work for Hirsts Idler?

[idler]

No, it was Heatwell Engineering Co. Park Rd. just off East Laith Gate.
We had one lad, Ken that was actually based in the brewery.
The rest of us used to just go to their pubs as and when needed.
We used to see lads from a decorating company regular on the big jobs. I can't remember if they were employees of the brewery or sub- contract.

[Sprotyrover]

Stainfirth was originally known as Stony Ford.

I have a few theories about the Stony ford at Stainforth, I am wondering whether it was a Roman paved Ford like the one found at Kilgram Bridge North Yorkshire,
The Romans were good at building objects in water as they had cement that dried in water,
for it to be a Roman ford there would need to be a good reason for them to build it.
Did a Roman road run from Hatfield up to Snaith perhaps ?
Fishlake was a major settlement in the Domesday book, was it the case in Roman times?
The Brigante border defences known as the Roman Ridge ended at Hatfield, although no Fortifications have been publicised the ones at Long Sandal have been identified but not excavated, what do you local guys reckon?

[bally1950]

Very feasible as encampments go, this area was the end of the Roman Ridge, surprising though there was a pun up Scawsby called The Roman Ridge.  Many  artefacts have been unearthed around here

[Sprotyrover]

Bally We call the Roman road that goes past the Pub The Roman Rig,it was a posh all singing all dancing Roman Road which ended up in York.
We know that there were also far older highways used to trade Salt the Romans also maintained these probably to the standard  of the military roads built in Scotland after the 1745 Rebellion.
Now please correct me if I'm wrong but building stone probably was shipped down the Don from Sprotbrough to build a paved ford,have a look at the article in Brigante Nation website about Kilgram Bridge,it might mean something to any forum member who has spent time around the bridge to fish lake,we are finding Roman sites all over Doncaster, Maybe the Ford was built to be used at low tide as the river was navigable up to Templeborough.(Roman ships didn't. Sit deep in the water) If you do go on Brigante Nation have a look at the article about the Gallus Frontier,there is an interesting map which is now out of date as it is missing the Roman Forts at Bawtry,Redhouse and Long Sandal also the Brigante Fortifiction at Long Sandal.

Cheers