Cameron

[Bentley Bullet]

Of course I'm not happy with reoffenders, who the hell would be? One reoffender is one too many, just like one offender is one too many in the first place. Known immigrant offenders shouldn't be allowed in the country, and new offenders following arrival in the country should be deported.

[Bentley Bullet]

And if we'd have been given the right to do that without being tarred as a racist country, we'd have still been in the EU now.

[Donnywolf]

The quote by Colin (No 11 above) is about releasing prisoners back into the community to reoffend. Are you happy that 80% of prisoners reoffend? Dont you thing more should be done to stop this rather than worrying about what country they are from in the first place?

I voted remain for my own selfish self. Its what everyone does. I am mortified for the Country though and cant see much to be happy about

However on the Top 10 good things that have or will come about as a result of this vote my Number 1 is .... if any EU "immigrant" commits a serious crime and gets convicted and jailed at least we will be able to then deport them at the end of that their jail term as long as (I guess) ,,,

a) we have finally left the EU AND
b) they have no British Wife or have popped a sprog out since they have lived here

[wilts rover]

Most are. It just seems very strange to me that there is such a focus on a small number of prisoners yet you want to ignore 75000 Brits? Are they not more worring than 700 Romanians?

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes, we are too soft with our own prisoners, but the topic is about immigrant criminals. You mention the high amount of our own criminals and then insinuate that because of this we should allow foreign criminals, as if to say the more the f**king merrier.

[wilts rover]

No, the topic, at least as I have picked it up and explained at least once, is about releasing prisoners back into the community. But if you want to have a different argument to me go ahead - you generally do.

[Bentley Bullet]

I'm talking about releasing prisoners back into the community also, but foreign ones should be released back into the community IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Go on then BB. f**k it, I'll bite. What is there to prevent us from deporting serious EU criminals back to their home countries?

[Bentley Bullet]

You tell me Billy. If there's nothing to prevent us from sending them back, why are they still here? And if they were known criminals before they arrived, why did we let them in?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've no idea BB. How many serious European criminals ARE in our prisons? And how many British ones are in European prisons.

See, the onus is on the person who raises an issue to substantiate it. Otherwise we just argue about piss and wind. So. After you.

[Bentley Bullet]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjik624ysHNAhXMFsAKHQ1fCzYQFggzMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.express.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2F659620%2FBritain-prison-huge-rise-EU-convicts-150million-taxpayer&usg=AFQjCNEIBSmBgF3zvk0pIW8AP2Z_b2Pi-A&sig2=PqUV6pZvSshufuP4-23DvA

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

A Daily Express article?

Really?

[Bentley Bullet]

 I f**king knew it! I tried all over to get some up to date figures, seems my effort was all a waste of time.

Your turn...........

[Sammy Chung was King]

Labour badly need somebody electable, the opportunties are there if only there was strength at the helm. David Miliband off the top of my head, would be a decent option, but maybe things would be much the same.
We badly need politicians, who can take us into a new era, with different ideas, not saying what everybody wants them to hear. We need proper leaders, and i am sorry i see none of them in either party.
What will we end up with two blonde bufoons, Boris as prime minister and Donald Trump as president?. Cameron got into power preaching fear, and leaves the job still preaching fear, how about a change to all this tired business?.

[Donnywolf]

I f**king knew it! I tried all over to get some up to date figures, seems my effort was all a waste of time.

Your turn...........

I too cant substantiate or add any facts BUT I can still hear and quite often I hear via BBC Media of an economic migrant (I don't want to add a nationality because than would make me look xenophobic which I am not - and I have visited in fact at least 10 Eastern European Countries since they became "open" for visiting) who has committed serious crime(s) in the UK

They have perhaps murdered someone (quite often one of their Countryfolk) - they have perhaps Raped or sexually assaulted someone (a heinous Crime) or killed someone whilst driving a Car at speed or due to other influences. The BBC / other Media then report that the individual has been sentenced to time in jail after which they cannot be deported because they are Citizens of the EU

Perhaps people can concur with my view ... and anecdotally prove that I have not misheard this. Indeed in my Top Ten GOOD things to come out of the Referendum Vote I can only come up with 2 - one of which is our ability in due course to deport such offenders - providing they don't qualify to stay by having a British Spouse and / or British born kids so I must believe I have not misheard that.

[Donnywolf]

I just did a simple search on Google - something like " EU Citizens who cant be deported from the UK" and this came up from Voteleavetakecharge.

I did not want to look xenophobic and name Countries whereas this article names names and so has to be factual otherwise it would be massively libellous

 http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/vote_leave_reveals_50_criminals_the_eu_stopped_us_deporting

I know some people will not want to read through a lengthy article whilst others WILL want to pick it to pieces to find ammo to throw back but here is an extract which comes about one A4 Page down the article

50 cases in which the UK has been unable to deport serious criminals to the European Union because of EU law. These cases include offenders convicted of murder, rape, robbery and drug trafficking.

•Of these 50 offenders, all but two were sentenced in the UK to terms of imprisonment exceeding one year and, had it not been for EU law, would have been subject to automatic deportation under UK law.

•This includes six offenders convicted of homicide, 5 convicted of sexual offences and 13 convicted of drug dealing. Crimes include murder, rape, blinding a child and possession of 7 kg of amphetamine sulphate with intent to supply. In each case, EU law allowed them to stay in the UK.

•The legal judgments preventing the removal of 46 out of 50 of the criminals were issued since the current Government took office in May 2010.

•The Government’s renegotiation will do nothing to change this. The European Commission has said it will issue a ‘Communication’ to address the UK’s concerns, but it accepts that it ‘has no legal effect’.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Standing down as Prime Minister, talk about throwing your toys out of the pram.

A typical knee jerk reaction from a chinless, 'Private Cub Member, living in 'Chipping-In-Fairyland', from where he clearly has know idea about what is happening & how strong the feelings are regarding primarily immigration in the Country outside of the Capital & its surrounding Shires i.e. the North!

Just when we need a short period of stability off he trots. "I care strongly about this Country"....my arse.

Oh for a strong Labour leader. I fear Cameron goes & his 'buddy in arms' Boris the buffoon steps into his shoes. Gawd help us.

Rubbish. He knows as well as Boris does that all the wonderful concessions that the Leavers kept telling that the EU were going to give the UK in the exit negotiations (because they so desperately want our trade) were pure fantasy. That's why Boris and his chums wanted Cameron to stay on - so they could blame him when they don't materialise. And I think it's why Cameron has decided to go without setting off Article 50. Why should he keep hold of the parcel he's been given when he can hear it ticking?

[wilts rover]

If you had done your search on Deportation of Offenders to EU, you would have come up with these Wolfie.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/466151/EEA_FNO_Cases_v4_0.pdf

Deportation of EEA nationals and their family members must be considered under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006, see related link. Under regulation 21 of these regulations,
EEA nationals can only be deported from the UK on the following grounds:
•public policy
•public security
•public health

and this:

http://www.biduk.org/sites/default/files/BID%20Factsheet%206%20Deportation%20Appeals%20Deportation%20of%20EU%20nationals_pdf%20version_0.pdf

I am an EU/EEA National.  Can the Home Office deport me from the UK?

Yes, EU/EEA Nationals can be deported.
The Home Office is likely to begin deportation proceedings if you were sentenced to prison for 24 months or over for any offences, or to one year or more if the offence is related to drugs, sex, violence or other serious criminal activity. The sentence must relate to one conviction. Sentences cannot be added together.

However, an EU/EEA national who does not meet the above criteria but who the Home Office believes to be a 'low level persistent offender' can also be deported.


So quite clearly EU offenders can and should be deported after serving their sentance (or sent back during it under the Early Removal Scheme). The main reason they aren't is the one you have put in your final paragraph on your post #44 as to why you believe they should be allowed to stay!

But as I argued with Bentley earlier I still believe this is missing the point and the main problem. You have picked up the case of 50 EU nationls. Yet if you trawl through the newspapers and court records you will find hundreds of examples of British ex-offenders, reoffending. You and I are much more likely to meet one of these people than we are the other 50. Yet the focus is on how to remove these 50 rather than what should be done to stop these reoffenders before they reoffend?

[idler]

It's a bit like naughty children Wilts. It's bad enough controlling yours or a relatives but trying to sort someone else's out is a nightmare.
I've no time for any criminal but if you can get one off the streets then every one less makes life easier or safer for the rest of us.

[Donnywolf]

Sorry Wilts you have lost me there

I was responding to BSTs Post #37

I produced a doc that answers that question of his and is "current" being written / released this Month by those trying to take us out of the EU

This bit you wrote has me foxed though (though it does not take much)

So quite clearly EU offenders can and should be deported after serving their sentance (or sent back during it under the Early Removal Scheme). The main reason they aren't is the one you have put in your final paragraph on your post #44 as to why you believe they should be allowed to stay!



I don't want them to stay ... and I don't think I said I wanted them to stay. I want them out whether they are serial petty criminals - or someone far far worse and the only good thing I can take from the Referendum OUT vote is that finally they may be gone so I wont meet any of the 50 or any of the others as they will be gone.



 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wolf

That Voteleave dossier on "EU criminals".

The very first one on the list, Learco Chindamo, has lived in the UK since he was 6 years old. If he became a murderer, he was a BRITISH murderer, wherever he was born. Deporting him is simply shipping out a problem that we produced to another country.

Second one: Theresa Rafacz, killed her husband and was convicted of manslaughter. Whilst she'd been at work, her alcoholic husband had left their three year old at home alone for hours and gone out to get blind drunk. She returned from work to find him drunk and unconscious with their son having not been fed all day. This had been going on for a long time. She cracked and assaulted him, killing him.

The trial judge said this was "a momentary loss of control...it is proper to regard her conduct as lacking the necessary intent to kill or inflict really serious personal injury." She was assessed to pose a low risk to the public. That Vote Leave dossier simply reported this as her having killed him by kicking him in the face. No context. No detail.

I'm sure we could go on with the others but I've got a life to live here. The point is that there are genuine issues here. That website suggests that there are dozens of gratuitously violent threats to the public that have been exported from,what was it Colin C said, "their disgusting pig farms" to threaten us. It fits in to the overall thrust of the Leave campaign. Keep people ignorant. Misinform them. Stir up gut revulsion and tell people that they are at threat.

It is f**king disgusting to be honest. It is stoking up hatred and as Hannan admitted yesterday, they are not going to be doing anything about it. So where does that hatred go now that it is out of the bottle?

This is very, very dangerous politics. You should ask yourself: who gains from it?

[Bentley Bullet]

That's very true idler.

 Can you imagine the scenario if you were a kid and your easy going parents ran a nursery that attracted naughty kids because of their we'll take anybody liberalism?

Home life would be shite wouldn't it.

[Donnywolf]

BST wrote :

I'm sure we could go on with the others but I've got a life to live here

Me too !

[Glyn_Wigley]

That's very true idler.

 Can you imagine the scenario if you were a kid and your easy going parents ran a nursery that attracted naughty kids because of their we'll take anybody liberalism?

Home life would be shite wouldn't it.

Is that the same as we'll take anybody and lock them up liberalism?

[SydneyRover]

Colin

50% of inmates in Wandsworth prison are Romanian.

No they are not. But since the side that you support has trotted out ignorant, bigoted lies throughout the entire campaign, I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they get repeated time and again.

Everyone should be required to have a DNA test, and then we throw out the Vikings oops, the saxons, and the desendants of William the conquerer

[wilts rover]

Sorry Wolfie I was being a bit naughty there. Yes any criminal, EU or not, can be deported after the end of their sentance. As the documents in the links I posted will show you.

The extra problem with EU nationals is that they have the right to appeal against this deportation to the European Court of Human Rights. Those who do appeal it is generally on this 'right to family life' clause (which was the bit I picked up on in your post as to why they should be allowed to stay).

Will leaving the EU really make us safer? There are 500 Albanians in prison at the moment, Albania is not in the EU. 1000 Africans, 1600 Asians. And 75000 Brits.

My fear is that leaving the EU will actually make Britain a more dangerous place to live. There will be less co-operation between police and security forces and criminals will be able to move around easier. The economy will crash, unemployment and prices will rise - leading to more crime and criminals over here, not less. I hope I am wrong. It's a big trade off for 50 people.

[Bentley Bullet]

That's very true idler.

 Can you imagine the scenario if you were a kid and your easy going parents ran a nursery that attracted naughty kids because of their we'll take anybody liberalism?


Home life would be shite wouldn't it.

Is that the same as we'll take anybody and lock them up liberalism?

Similar, only we don't lock them up enough. If we did they wouldn't find coming here such an attractive option.

[idler]

Surely Wilts, the one thing all right minded countries want to ensure is security?
The police in Europe and the U.K. will share intelligence. Imagine the outcry if after a terrorist attack it came out that another counties police had withheld intelligence that would have prevented this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Idler

It's not about intent. It's about structures and procedures. It's about making it EASIER to work with Europe.

We've just taken a deliberate decision to make it harder to work with Europe across a wide range of issues.

[idler]

I understand that BST but we need to keep as much as we can of the co-operation that we have.
You aren't telling me that intelligence agencies across Europe aren't already formulating plans to keep agreements as intact as possible.