todays topic..... Would you ban the burka??????

[bahrain rover]

I love this beard wearing terrorist image everyone seems to have. As you can see where I live Muslims are very much the majority population. I can honestly say the beards make up for probably only a 3rd of male faces (and for sure a few women). So on this should the authorities simply drive around and pick these people up, as they are openly identifying themselves.   

[IDM]

No..

We value freedom in this country don't we?

Terrorism does not equal Islam, so why assume the burka is a security risk?  I am sure that airports, particularly in the Islamic countries, will have rooms where if required the security staff (female) can inspect the women in private where the burka can be removed.

As for banks, when was the last time you were asked for photo ID to prove who you are?  You put your card in the reader and enter your pin to confirm ID..  Again, if there is a concern, a private woman only room can be used.

Do we assume all "shifty looking" middle aged men are paedos?  Do we assume all 40-something yorkshiremen with thin moustaches and beards are prostitute murderers??

No, we don't.. So why tar women who wear the burka as potential security risks?

I am all for proper security measures (ex-forces) applied to all, but do not advocate additional measures on the grounds of race, religion, dress code etc..

Oh and before anyone says, that doesn't make me a leftie!!

[Bentley Bullet]

So you should be allowed to wear crash helmets in banks then?

[IDM]

I wouldn't ban them in principle no..  Is there an issue with hearing and speaking through a helmet though - as opposed to cloth?

[Bentley Bullet]

Hahaha! The issue isn't about communication through a crash helmet or a piece of cloth, it's about being able to identify said people wearing them!

[IDM]

The argument about helmets in banks doesn't stand up if we are only identified by card and pin codes then?

[Bentley Bullet]

It's about security issues! If you're intending to rob a bank you are far less likely to get caught if you can't be identified by your face. The insistence of removing helmets is to enable people to be identified.

[Dagenham Rover]

The argument about helmets in banks doesn't stand up if we are only identified by card and pin codes then?

Banks want/need to identify customers in case of fraudulent actions, whether its fraudulent use of the card, the old lass being "escorted" to the bank to make a withdrawal, money laundering etc etc and the obvious bank robbery

Even if the fraudulent activity is not discovered until afterwards

So as a normal customer we tend to be identified by pin number until something goes wrong, just imagine your cards been nicked and your pin compromised you'd be telling the bank to check the cctv at whatever machine or branch it'd been used at

[IDM]

It's about security issues! If you're intending to rob a bank you are far less likely to get caught if you can't be identified by your face. The insistence of removing helmets is to enable people to be identified.

Fair enough..

So assuming Burkas are banned, by law, would that stop criminals intent on robbing a bank chucking one on at the last minute, or any other form of facial disguise??

No, the idea of banning burkas smacks of tarring folks with the same brush, and IMHO is a backward step..

[darren61]

What about the staff working behind counters in banks and post offices, Someone walks in with a crash helmet on would make heart rates increase, not to mention customers alike. Anyone that enters a bank with a helmet on is either a robber or a complete helmet.

[IDM]

What next, should we ban gloves so that leaving fingerprints can't be avoided??

[knockers]

Do people still go into banks?

[Donnywolf]

I went in Nationwide at Donny to hand over a customer of theirs whose Credit Card I had found !

[drfchound]

I love this beard wearing terrorist image everyone seems to have. As you can see where I live Muslims are very much the majority population. I can honestly say the beards make up for probably only a 3rd of male faces (and for sure a few women). So on this should the authorities simply drive around and pick these people up, as they are openly identifying themselves. 

My comment about moustaches and beards was aimed at a previous poster who brought that into the equation.
As for going into private areas to identify the person behind the burka, well in the case I saw that didn't happen, they went through passport control, collected their stuff and left the terminal.
No further checks.
One of the main reasons why many people voted for Brexit was so there would be more control over who comes into our country.
There wasn't much control that day from what I saw.

[bahrain rover]

Hound, I know and i was being tongue firmly in cheek. It just makes me laugh at the stereotypical image that exists a la Team America Wold Police movie. It was not aimed at anyone on here.

[Bentley Bullet]

It's about security issues! If you're intending to rob a bank you are far less likely to get caught if you can't be identified by your face. The insistence of removing helmets is to enable people to be identified.

Fair enough..

So assuming Burkas are banned, by law, would that stop criminals intent on robbing a bank chucking one on at the last minute, or any other form of facial disguise??

No, the idea of banning burkas smacks of tarring folks with the same brush, and IMHO is a backward step..

No, banning Burkas in certain places wouldn't stop criminals intent on robbing a bank chucking one on at the last minute. Neither would chucking a crash helmet on at the last minute, or any sort of facial cover. I dare say that just about all bank robberies begin with the culprits putting on a mask to disguise their identity.

Surely that is a good enough reason to ban all people from covering their face in banks?

[IDM]

That's a different argument than just a burka ban though, isn't it??

[Bentley Bullet]

Why is it? Who said anything about just a Burka ban?

[MachoMadness]

For one, it's highly unlikely you've seen someone wearing a burqa unless you've been to the middle east. Mostly in this country you see women wearing the niqab, which leaves the eyes uncovered and is a slightly lighter garment. It's a minor distinction but if you're dead set that this is a real security risk it's probably wise to get the name right, to show you know what you're on about and aren't just parroting Daily Mail headlines.

As IDM mentions, we have contingencies in situations where you actually need to see someone's face and they seem to be working out just fine, so why that's an issue I'm not sure.

As far as this bank robber scenario, there's a reason there are only a handful of reported cases of face veils being used to rob banks, and even then the culprits are usually caught, because even if you can't see the person's face there's still CCTV, usually dozens of witnesses, some kind of getaway vehicle to trace, forensic evidence, among other things. Also the idea you can deter CRIMINALS robbing a bank from committing another crime by chucking on a face veil is a bit ridiculous. Like they're gonna call off the whole heist because covering your face in a bank is banned.

[Bentley Bullet]

So you should be allowed to wear crash helmets in banks then?

[bahrain rover]

Nice one Macho well pointed out. If you wish to get closer its a Hijab, and the actual scarf is called a Shayla. My wife is Muslim, hence i am familiar. The Burka is more local to Iran and Afghanistan areas.

[MachoMadness]

So you should be allowed to wear crash helmets in banks then?

Are crash helmets a garment of cultural and historical significance?

If someone wants to rob a bank, do you think a ban on face coverings will stop them covering their face, or from robbing the bank altogether? Is that where the line is for bank robbers?

[RedJ]

"Ah f**k, I was gonna cover me face to rob this bank but it's illegal, what am I gonna do now?!"

[Dagenham Rover]

So you should be allowed to wear crash helmets in banks then?

Are crash helmets a garment of cultural and historical significance?

If someone wants to rob a bank, do you think a ban on face coverings will stop them covering their face, or from robbing the bank altogether? Is that where the line is for bank robbers?

No and the wearing of Burkas nicabs etc etc is voluntary

and the scenario isn't just for bank robberies there are plenty of other types of fraud thats attempted in banks, in fact the bank robbery is actually relatively unusual now

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's about security issues! If you're intending to rob a bank you are far less likely to get caught if you can't be identified by your face. The insistence of removing helmets is to enable people to be identified.

Is there a problem with lots of banks being held up by people in burqas, because I haven't heard of any.

[Bentley Bullet]

"Ah f**k, I was gonna cover me face to rob this bank but it's illegal, what am I gonna do now?!"

Well, as it seems a common opinion by a handful of people on this thread that all face coverings should be banned in banks apart from those of cultural and historical significance, you can wear a Burka!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Inside a bank should be down to the bank, not the government.

[Bentley Bullet]

It's about security issues! If you're intending to rob a bank you are far less likely to get caught if you can't be identified by your face. The insistence of removing helmets is to enable people to be identified.

Is there a problem with lots of banks being held up by people in burqas, because I haven't heard of any.

As has already been stated on this thread, you don't hear of many banks being 'held up' these days, but cases of fraud in banks are commonplace. Many cases of fraud have to be investigated after the crime has taken place. In order to assist the investigation, facial recognition caught on camera can be of great assistance. That's why the wearing of crash helmets is not allowed and is a good reason why the wearing of Burkas shouldn't be either.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Has the government banned crash helmets? If not, they don't need to get involved regarding burqas either do they?

[Bentley Bullet]

Has the government banned crash helmets? If not, they don't need to get involved regarding burqas either do they?

Who said they did need to get involved?