The Ashes

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The players have tried, but ultimately the bowling on this tour just hasn't been good enough.  Time to bring some younger blood in and rebuild.  Yes it will be tough for a few years but there needs to be a long term view on the national team and it's all too short term.

[NickDRFC]

Glosterred, and to a lesser extent Filo - any criticism of Anderson is ridiculous. Apparently he can’t bowl in Australia, but he’s taken 12 wickets so far this series, almost twice as many as England’s next best bowler, and more than Pat Cummins despite bowling at batsmen who are mostly better and in better form. His overall average there is 35.69 – admittedly not great, but way better than recent contemporaries Matthew Hoggard (45.31), Steve Harmison (50.86) and even Stuart Broad (37.42).

And even if it’s true, and the only place Anderson can bowl is in England - so what? He’s the greatest bowler we’ve ever had at doing just that. The summer just gone he took 39 wickets at 14 apiece and rose to the top of the world rankings. Nobody is going to come into the side and bowl anything like that. Unless his fitness drops, he will still be our best hope with the ball by next summer’s ashes.

Cook is having a very, very poor series but it's not time to drop him yet. If we're dropping people for having poor series then only Malan, Anderson, Bairstow and arguably Vince would keep their place. Broad I think needs a spell out of the side - I don't know whether it's complacency, lack of motivation or what but he doesn't merit his place in the side and I'd be tempted to replace him for the next test, even if just to give him a kick up the arse.

[Filo]

Glosterred, and to a lesser extent Filo - any criticism of Anderson is ridiculous. Apparently he can’t bowl in Australia, but he’s taken 12 wickets so far this series, almost twice as many as England’s next best bowler, and more than Pat Cummins despite bowling at batsmen who are mostly better and in better form. His overall average there is 35.69 – admittedly not great, but way better than recent contemporaries Matthew Hoggard (45.31), Steve Harmison (50.86) and even Stuart Broad (37.42).

And even if it’s true, and the only place Anderson can bowl is in England - so what? He’s the greatest bowler we’ve ever had at doing just that. The summer just gone he took 39 wickets at 14 apiece and rose to the top of the world rankings. Nobody is going to come into the side and bowl anything like that. Unless his fitness drops, he will still be our best hope with the ball by next summer’s ashes.

Cook is having a very, very poor series but it's not time to drop him yet. If we're dropping people for having poor series then only Malan, Anderson, Bairstow and arguably Vince would keep their place. Broad I think needs a spell out of the side - I don't know whether it's complacency, lack of motivation or what but he doesn't merit his place in the side and I'd be tempted to replace him for the next test, even if just to give him a kick up the arse.

6 of Andersons wickets have come in the day night match in swing friendly conditions

[glosterred]

Anderson may be the leading English wicket taker but he is 35 and at the end of his career and therefore part of the old guard and needs replacing now. There is little point in playing the old guard, Anderson, Broad and Cook in the next two tests as there is absolutely nothing to play for, other than a little pride, so and we might as well blood the young and see what they can do in testing conditions.

[NickDRFC]

Glosterred, and to a lesser extent Filo - any criticism of Anderson is ridiculous. Apparently he can’t bowl in Australia, but he’s taken 12 wickets so far this series, almost twice as many as England’s next best bowler, and more than Pat Cummins despite bowling at batsmen who are mostly better and in better form. His overall average there is 35.69 – admittedly not great, but way better than recent contemporaries Matthew Hoggard (45.31), Steve Harmison (50.86) and even Stuart Broad (37.42).

And even if it’s true, and the only place Anderson can bowl is in England - so what? He’s the greatest bowler we’ve ever had at doing just that. The summer just gone he took 39 wickets at 14 apiece and rose to the top of the world rankings. Nobody is going to come into the side and bowl anything like that. Unless his fitness drops, he will still be our best hope with the ball by next summer’s ashes.

Cook is having a very, very poor series but it's not time to drop him yet. If we're dropping people for having poor series then only Malan, Anderson, Bairstow and arguably Vince would keep their place. Broad I think needs a spell out of the side - I don't know whether it's complacency, lack of motivation or what but he doesn't merit his place in the side and I'd be tempted to replace him for the next test, even if just to give him a kick up the arse.

6 of Andersons wickets have come in the day night match in swing friendly conditions

Stop the presses - bowler who performs better in certain conditions puts in his best performance in those conditions. Remarkable.

[Filo]

Glosterred, and to a lesser extent Filo - any criticism of Anderson is ridiculous. Apparently he can’t bowl in Australia, but he’s taken 12 wickets so far this series, almost twice as many as England’s next best bowler, and more than Pat Cummins despite bowling at batsmen who are mostly better and in better form. His overall average there is 35.69 – admittedly not great, but way better than recent contemporaries Matthew Hoggard (45.31), Steve Harmison (50.86) and even Stuart Broad (37.42).

And even if it’s true, and the only place Anderson can bowl is in England - so what? He’s the greatest bowler we’ve ever had at doing just that. The summer just gone he took 39 wickets at 14 apiece and rose to the top of the world rankings. Nobody is going to come into the side and bowl anything like that. Unless his fitness drops, he will still be our best hope with the ball by next summer’s ashes.

Cook is having a very, very poor series but it's not time to drop him yet. If we're dropping people for having poor series then only Malan, Anderson, Bairstow and arguably Vince would keep their place. Broad I think needs a spell out of the side - I don't know whether it's complacency, lack of motivation or what but he doesn't merit his place in the side and I'd be tempted to replace him for the next test, even if just to give him a kick up the arse.

6 of Andersons wickets have come in the day night match in swing friendly conditions

Stop the presses - bowler who performs better in certain conditions puts in his best performance in those conditions. Remarkable.

And thats what I was saying, the day night test gave favourable conditions, had it been a day test with the red kukaburra ball Anderson would have struggled, just as he has in the other two tests. Great in English conditions, average anywhere else

[NickDRFC]

My post was more aimed at Glosterred saying that Jimmy should be jettisoned from the team, but I also think that the reason that Anderson gets called average everywhere else is purely because he's so, SO good in England. He still has very favourable figures compared to a lot of our other best bowlers of the last 20 years, as demonstrated above.

[glosterred]

So Nick you’re happy keeping a 35 year old playing who is past his prime and not giving the chance to younger bowlers to gain valuable experience. Not forgetting that 4 of Anderson’s wickets came when the Aussies were chasing runs in a test we lost having been 368/4

[NickDRFC]

When he’s still our best bowler by a mile then yes of course I’m happy keeping him.

[Draytonian III]

What younger bowlers would you pick ?? It all comes down to English cricket being full of bit part crickets ,bowl a bit, bat a bit . It's geared to 20 twenty,it's where the money is, but it's killing the county championship and will kill test cricket

[glosterred]

For the Aussies conditions I’d have picked Plunkett, but there again I’d have taken an experienced spinner as well.

[NickDRFC]

For the Aussies conditions I’d have picked Plunkett, but there again I’d have taken an experienced spinner as well.

Liam Plunkett is 32 and older than Stuart Broad! So much for getting rid of players past their prime and getting youngsters in hahaha!

[The Red Baron]

For the Aussies conditions I’d have picked Plunkett, but there again I’d have taken an experienced spinner as well.

Can you name me any experienced spinners who are better than Moeen Ali? Yes, Moeen has had a wretched series but he was one of our best players last summer.

The best spinner in County Cricket is arguably Jeetan Patel of Warwickshire. But he's never torn up any trees when playing for New Zealand.

I actually think they should have taken both Plunkett and Wood. Both are injury prone but between them you might get four or five tests. Both are also quicker than the other members of the seam attack.

[glosterred]

For the Aussies conditions I’d have picked Plunkett, but there again I’d have taken an experienced spinner as well.

Liam Plunkett is 32 and older than Stuart Broad! So much for getting rid of players past their prime and getting youngsters in hahaha!

But would have probably bowled better in the conditions than Broad has getting more bounce and at a faster pace. But you would still play a 35year old. As for an experienced spinner, how about Adil Rashid for starters or the young Somerset spinner Jack Leach.

[The Red Baron]

Leach has been playing for the England Lions in Australia and has been going around the park. Absolutely Rashid should have been included in the party but for some reason he is not fancied as a red ball cricketer by England. Don't ask me why.

[The Red Baron]

Hateful players, the Australians. Bullies when on top. Whining bairns when they are losing.

Your point is never better illustrated than the current "row" over the Australians' persistent use of bouncers at tailenders. Mike Atherton made some perfectly reasonable points in The Times and expressed concern that a non-batsman like Ball or Anderson could be seriously hurt. The reaction of Steve Smith was what I expected. Just surprised he didn't call Atherton a whinging Pom.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21833131/steven-smith-rebuffs-mike-atherton-call-protect-tail

Interestingly Greg Baum, one of the few fair-minded Aussie journalists, makes a similar point. They seem to have forgotten that one of their own was killed by a bouncer two years ago. And he was a proper batsman.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/lest-we-already-have-forgotten-ashes-pace-barrage-offers-painful-reminder-20171221-h08vnf.html

[Filo]

Well, Cook and Broad have at last shown some class, it's just too late though

[The Red Baron]

I think this test has shown what a key man Mitchell Starc is for Australia. Having him out seriously weakens both their batting and bowling. I was surprised they called in Bird to replace him. He can't bat and he's a trundler by Aussie standards.

Reminds me a bit of 1974-75 when Lillee and Thomson were tearing us a new one. Both were injured for the last Test and we hammered them. Hopefully we'll do likewise here and at Sydney.

[GazLaz]

I think this test has shown what a key man Mitchell Starc is for Australia. Having him out seriously weakens both their batting and bowling. I was surprised they called in Bird to replace him. He can't bat and he's a trundler by Aussie standards.

Reminds me a bit of 1974-75 when Lillee and Thomson were tearing us a new one. Both were injured for the last Test and we hammered them. Hopefully we'll do likewise here and at Sydney.

Starc is on a different level to any other bowler they have, by far and away better than Cummins and Hazlewood.

[Donnywolf]

Well, Cook and Broad have at last shown some class, it's just too late though

...and a pity we lost Broad to an unconvincing "catch" and 2 higher order batsmen were given out LBW when both had edged it (according to Snicko) and yet neither of them reviewed their dismissals !

[Wild Rover]

As a Yorkshire man WILLEY, COAD and RACHID should replace England's under performing bowlers, Not sure who should replace Cook, but I guess another Yorkshire man ought to,

[NickDRFC]

Well Lyth had a chance to stake his claim and didn’t do a lot, and Lees is crap so not sure any Yorkshireman will be replacing Cook anytime soon!

[Wild Rover]

7 Matches ( 2NZ 5 Aus) 1 century, but lot of low scores, bit like most who have come and gone since ( playing lesser mortals ), maybe another look next year worthwhile.

[Draytonian III]

There's at least another a Yorkshireman there , just spotted John Barker in his Rovers shirt, sat on the front row