Blatant penalty !

[dickos1]

Now they're getting more money from tv deals they should invest this in professional referees like the championship has done

[DonnyBazR0ver]

There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.

[JonWallsend]

I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.

Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.

Edit. I've looked again.  It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .

And therein lies the problem. Why is it an easier decision if it's outside of the box? A ref shouldn't be making decisions based on how likely they are to influence the game, he should be making them based on the rules of the game in a consistent manner.

I agree completely, it should be irrelevant where an incident occurs. A foul is a foul. However, we have all seen enough football to know that isn't the case. Why it isn't, I'm not really sure but it can be attributed to a number of different factors. Human nature must play a part. The repercussions and subsequent abuse an official gets from an incorrect decision, or say a decision based on the balance of probabilities, is going to be far greater if that decision involves an incident in the box then an incident on the halfway line.

Having said that. It's the sort of decision  that you usually get at home. Another inconsistency that shouldn't have any relevance on a referee's decision- but does.

[rtid88]

For the first time for a long time BST I think you're talking utter rubbish. Yes Fergie's comments were harsh and over the top but for the first time in a while Fergie has shown some passion which most fans including myself have said he had lacked this season. Anybody at any standard of job gets carried away with their comments when faced with such idiotic decisions in their workplace its just unfortunate Fergie was being recorded at the time. Will or should he be sacked for this comment, no I hope not because I think our board have got enough common sense to think it was a heat of the moment comment that shouldn't be taken seriously, unlike some members of this board. Will Andy Haines receive any penalty for being totally and utterly useless? No because the FA has no realistic way of penalising a referee for making bad judgements and is unbelievably corrupt when it comes to clubs of a lower league.

[Superspy]

I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.

Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.

Edit. I've looked again.  It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .

And therein lies the problem. Why is it an easier decision if it's outside of the box? A ref shouldn't be making decisions based on how likely they are to influence the game, he should be making them based on the rules of the game in a consistent manner.

I agree completely, it should be irrelevant where an incident occurs. A foul is a foul. However, we have all seen enough football to know that isn't the case. Why it isn't, I'm not really sure but it can be attributed to a number of different factors. Human nature must play a part. The repercussions and subsequent abuse an official gets from an incorrect decision, or say a decision based on the balance of probabilities, is going to be far greater if that decision involves an incident in the box then an incident on the halfway line.

Having said that. It's the sort of decision  that you usually get at home. Another inconsistency that shouldn't have any relevance on a referee's decision- but does.

Very true, just more reasons to get VAR in at every level possible, as soon as possible - take as much pressure off the refs as possible by giving them the tools to do the job better.

[BillyStubbsTears]

rtid

I’m surprised it’s the first time in a while. I talk b*llocks on a regular basis!

I agree entirely that it was a heat of the moment comment and of course he doesn’t think refs should be shot. But it was still grossly unprofessional to be shooting his mouth off like that. There is a massive qualitative difference between how you or I might blow off in private at work, and talking like this in front of the media. What Ferguson said shows a certain amount of lack of self-control. That’s the concerning thing. I don’t see that as showing spirit. I see it as lashing out.

And the big point is: give it enough time and the bad decisions even out. Unless you are paranoid and convinced that we’re the only club who refuses to pay bribes to bent refs.

So, in that light, I’d have a lot more respect for managers’ moans if they were equally forthright in complaining about refs’ mistakes when they went in their own favour. Unless they are prepared to say, “That penalty we got was a shocking decision and I’ll be putting in a complaint about that ref,” then complaining like Ferguson did today is just a self-indulgence.

And, as I say, the officials they are complaining about earn a tiny fraction of the managers’ own wages.

[RoversAlias]

The actual main point of what Fergie was saying in that interview IS that the officials need to be better trained and that the system needs to be changed. He hasn't just gone on a personal attack against Andy Haines, or Andy Woolmer or whoever was the ref at Oxford.

When you are angry and upset because something out of your control has cost you valuable progress in your job, all because of incompetence by someone else not doing their job properly, you are going to get heated and say things you maybe don't quite mean. Especially when someone sticks a microphone in front of you and asks you your thoughts on it. He wasn't "self indulgent" at all, people always criticise managers for talking about things they shouldn't be (I see this a lot when top flight managers have their little spats or a headline runs where one manager passes comment on another player that has nothing to do with them) saying "why don't they mind their own business" or "they should be focusing on the team and not officials" etc. etc. but these same people forget that they haven't just rang up the BBC and said something, the BBC have stuck a mic in front of them and asked them point blank about the issue at hand.

[anne honemous]

BST, lets say we nosedive like we did two years ago and our destiny goes down to the final day of the season again.

We're playing Wigan and we get the same referee who makes incorrect decisions which play a part in us not winning the game (and ultimately that means we get relegated).

How are we going to feel then, knowing the same referee was equally as incompetent and not up to the job four months earlier?

Why should we have to put up with it?

[PDX_Rover]

There’s more then enough money in the game for the EFL to employ 40 full time professional refs. It’s a ludicrous situation.

[Donnywolf]

Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".

I was surprised that May himself wasn’t substituted.

I thought he would be sent off before they could Sub a Sub !

[Jimmydee]

I think that DF's comments was influenced by the supporters, how many times did we shout 'SHOOT' through the game?

[Donnywolf]

I personally don’t have a problem with fergie venting his spleen. The ref was a complete joke!! Well said Darren 😀👍

... and having listened to it I think he was rather more measured and did not rant and rave as I had expected to hear giving the views expressed already on here

He must have been tempted to go off on one and perhaps should not have said "lets shoot them" but in this context it is a figure of speech and will probably be seen as such by the Club. Sure they may have a word but I have sympathy with his view

There was a clear pull on Andy Butler when they equalised (I also though he was pulled down by 2 people in the Plymouth Penalty area which could have put us 2 goals up if scored) and everyone bar the Ref and Lino thought Copps was hacked down (which could if scored have given us all 3 Points)

Small margins indeed which in a multi million industry cost people money in winning bets / win bonuses / etc and people their jobs Managers are vulnerable / as are playing staff in cases of relegation etc so if our current Manager is incensed and goes for a word and the supposed Officials are grinning at him I for one dont begrudge him getting "mad". He could maybe have chosen his words more carefully and maybe will in future

There will be similar decisions that will cost us as they have been cropping up regularly as the standard of Reffing is so poor and so inconsistent from Ref to Ref. Shoot em all but I dont know what we would do then !

[The Red Baron]

There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.

Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?

Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.

[Campsall rover]

Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.

And replaced by...?

That’s the problem by who?

[silent majority]

There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.

Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?

Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.

TRB, there's already a levy on transfer fees, it's paid upfront when the buying club register their new player with the EFL. So DRFC would have paid a chunk of money to the EFL for Ben Whiteman this last week.

The EFL already have plans to make all their referees full time employees, they've already done so in the Championship and the plan is to filter that down through all the leagues.

 

[The Red Baron]

Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.

And replaced by...?

That’s the problem by who?

See my reply on page 5. I can name a number of referees whom I know will perform poorly most of the time we get them. The referees we have had in the last two weeks fit into that category.

I'm only asking for referees to be judged in the same way players are. If a player gives too many poor performances, the club will eventually let him go.

[The Red Baron]

There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.

Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?

Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.

TRB, there's already a levy on transfer fees, it's paid upfront when the buying club register their new player with the EFL. So DRFC would have paid a chunk of money to the EFL for Ben Whiteman this last week.

The EFL already have plans to make all their referees full time employees, they've already done so in the Championship and the plan is to filter that down through all the leagues.

 

That's good news, SM.

[drfchound]

BST, lets say we nosedive like we did two years ago and our destiny goes down to the final day of the season again.

We're playing Wigan and we get the same referee who makes incorrect decisions which play a part in us not winning the game (and ultimately that means we get relegated).

How are we going to feel then, knowing the same referee was equally as incompetent and not up to the job four months earlier?

Why should we have to put up with it?

A bit like what happened at Leicester then.

[The Red Baron]

Bit of back pedalling although he still gets his point across about refereeing standards.

https://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/2018/january/ferguson-clarifies-remarks-on-officials/

[Donnywolf]

Good response - but in reality he has said the same thing - whilst almost apologising for the "shooting" remark

I am glad he did not as there is far too much riding on the decisions of some incompetent Refs

Its a good job nobody asks me (even now) what I thought of the Refs decisions yesterday because (even now) I would not be so polite

Pull on Andy Butler in their Pen Area by 2 defenders - Pen

Pull on Andy Butler for their equaliser - Foul

Pull / chop / hack on Copps - Pen all day every day

Yes we may not have scored either Pen but that is not the point - they both should have been given

[rich1471]

Now they're getting more money from tv deals they should invest this in professional referees like the championship has done

how much should they be paid per season to go full time in leagues 1 and 2 they only do 2 matches a week plus paper work after the game even 2.5k per month plus travel seems a lot , what do people think what a full time ref should be paid

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think you would need to break down what you would expect of a full-time referee in terms of fitness work, feedback, coaching and assessing. This may also include these elite referees working with the lower grades.

It maybe, that some current referees may not want to give up their other jobs that might be more lucrative but I'm sure there must be a benchmark with the existing full time refs.

[swintonrover]

JR has had his say on Facebook...

Well said Darren Ferguson referee Haines should be suspended for 2 weeks and told to get fit.The shoot them remark was wrong but purely tongue in cheek.The media blew it up as usual but standards must improve as Rovers have suffered 2 weeks running now.

[BigH]

There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.

Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?

Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.

TRB, there's already a levy on transfer fees, it's paid upfront when the buying club register their new player with the EFL. So DRFC would have paid a chunk of money to the EFL for Ben Whiteman this last week.

The EFL already have plans to make all their referees full time employees, they've already done so in the Championship and the plan is to filter that down through all the leagues.

 

In which case that makes DF's remarks all the more unacceptable. He should know that there are steps afoot to address what is generally perceived to be a weakness in the set up. Something along the lines of 'the sooner we move to full time referees the better' would have been far less provocative and less likely to have him facing a disrepute charge. My fear is that the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs will now take against Rovers because of their manager.

[Bentley Bullet]

....And if the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs now take against Rovers because of their manager they can be called cheats as well.

[The Red Baron]

....And if the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs now take against Rovers because of their manager they can be called cheats as well.

Could they be any worse? I can count on one hand the number of decent referees I've seen in League One this season.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well, here’s my take.

1) Referees are fallible but fundamentally honest, in which case we’ve nothing to worry about. Yes we’ve had some bad decisions over the past couple of games but these even out over time (how many penalties have we won through Tommy Rowe diving?)

2) Referees bear grudges and will punish us for Ferguson’s remarks. In which case, Ferguson was stupid to say them.

Not sure there’s a third option.

[LincsRover]

Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!

Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! 

[Bentley Bullet]

....And if the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs now take against Rovers because of their manager they can be called cheats as well.

Could they be any worse? I can count on one hand the number of decent referees I've seen in League One this season.

Probably not TRB. The claims that refs might be useless but they're not cheats is hardly any consolation when, like yesterday, you're 'cheated' out of 2 points by useless officials.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!

Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! 

Lincs

Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.

You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.