Flint

[albie]

Not the town in Michigan, with the poisoned water....the MP for Don Valley, setting out her position;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/05/parliament-vote-brexit-deal-now

Probably best to let her voters know the score.

As far as I can see, May is saying that she has again found the magic money tree.

Areas like Don Valley need new investment, but they can't have it just because it is needed, they can have it if the MP supports the May deal.

If the MP does not agree with May, then they do not get the cash, despite it being available, and all agreed it is needed.

Flint seems to think that once May is gone, the arrangement will be supported by her replacement.
Why she thinks that I don't know.

So to get the money from a government in crisis, you agree to keep that government in place.
In supporting the May deal, you will ensure that you lose access to the regional support funds available from the EU.

Right.

[drfchound]

Not another Brexit thread............

[albie]

No Hound, it is not meant to be another thread on Brexit.

It is about the position of a local MP.....for better or worse.

If I had put it in the other thread it would be lost quickly, but in its own topic people can see where their local MP stands.

I think she has done the right thing in putting her case, although I do not agree with her reasoning.

[drfchound]

I have no time for Flint albie,
I have emailed her three times on three different topics and have never had a response.

I am no Brexit expert but it seems more likely now that May will get her deal through Parliament.

Flint appears to be reluctantly going along with the deal now.
More MPs will probably join the line.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In supporting the May deal, you will ensure that you lose access to the regional support funds available from the EU.

Aye. Would have been £3000 for every man, woman and child in South Yorkshire over the next 7 years if we'd stayed in. Compared to £1000 that every man, woman and child in South Yorkshire would have been paying into the EU budget. So that's £2000 that every man, woman and child in South Yorkshire would have been subsidised by the rest of the EU.

I'll guarantee that, whatever sweeteners Flint gets promised, it won't add up to more than a few % of that.

Funny how Flint doesn't mention that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Parts of that article by Flint are quite disgraceful. She is retrospectively imposing a narrative on events of the last decade to justify her decision to pander to racism. And that from an MP who represents a constituency that has relatively low levels of immigrant population.

"We are told history will damn the architects of Brexit. Does that include those who allowed a liberal free movement policy to be enacted, assuming a net benefit for UK plc but ignoring the growing concerns of the many? Why else was immigration among people’s top concerns by 2010? Why else did Ukip win the 2014 European elections? Why else did working-class people vote overwhelmingly for Brexit, including in those class-conscious mining communities?"

That is an appalling paragraph. If she has spent 30 seconds researching the issue, she knows that she is talking bullshit.

1) Yes, there have been strong feelings about immigration for years, but very little of that was generated by or resulted in a feeling of hostility to the EU. Look at the numbers here in the RAC (race and immigration) and COM (EU) columns to see what poll after poll found. https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/issues-index-2007-onwards

Very few people gave a shite about the EU until the run up to the Referendum.

2) She is subtly and implictly normalising anti immigrant sentiment in that paragraph. "Yes, you were RIGHT to be pissed off with the EU for allowing all those foreigners to come here." That is a shameful position for a Labour MP to take. She should be fighting the real fight, which is about people being fed up with a permanently depressed economy, not taking the easy populist way out that the Right takes, to blame it on immigrants.

I used to have a lot of time for Flint, but this is disgraceful.

[DonnyOsmond]

John Mann's the same. Another local t**tish MP.

[MachoMadness]

If these people are really so f**king stupid that they think May, who for 2 years has been promising all things to all people - telling the EU we'll pay the divorce bill, then coming home and telling the ERG that actually we might not, for example - is good for her word then they should never get a vote again.

Flint is trying to shore herself up in the event of a second referendum, so she can wring her hands at her constituency surgery and say that she tried.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Tainted money.

[Donnywolf]

I saw the Labour "Remain" Battlebus and its occupants quite by accident outside Crawshaws area in the run up to the Vote

There were Flint Corbyn and Ed Milliband and a few local people

ONLY Ed came over as being "passionate" and on message. Was not impressed at all with the rest - probably they wrongly thought the Vote would produce 60/40 to Remain and did not demand their full commitment

[keith79]

No brexit expert but if the Eu was going to give £2000 to every man woman and child over the next 7 years. Who is paying the money?

[selby]

  We pay ourselves, we are a net contributor to the EU, and we receive a percentage back from the EU, it is part and only part of our contributions.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  We pay ourselves, we are a net contributor to the EU, and we receive a percentage back from the EU, it is part and only part of our contributions.

Just like it is with the British Government. Only the EU don't have to have their arms twisted to offer a bribe in order for Donny to get any of it's cash back.

[BillyStubbsTears]

  We pay ourselves, we are a net contributor to the EU, and we receive a percentage back from the EU, it is part and only part of our contributions.

Yes Selby. And as I said, the contribution form every man, woman and child in South Yorkshire, amounts to £150 per year[1]. And we'd have been getting back £440 per year.

On this topic, I'm not interested in the overall UK position, because you know and I know and every sod knows that this Govt would never put serious investment into South Yorkshire. But the EU would. That's the whole point. The EU invests in struggling areas. The UK Tory Govt doesn't.

What YOU are saying is that you're happy for the UK's overall position to be financial better [2] even if it means that we in South Yorkshire lose out massively. You're basically saying that folk in Donny should subsidise folk in Guildford.

As I keep on saying, you've been played.

[1] That's the UK contribution divided by the total population of the UK. In practice, it'd be a lot, lot less than that for people in South Yorkshire, because we're so much poorer than the rest of the UK.
[2] Actually it won't because of all the other economically detrimental effects of Brexit, but ignore that for now.

[Donnywolf]

Well I for one wont Vote Flint ever again if she takes the bribe on my behalf

Of course it will make no difference as she will skate it but we have Libraries closing ... Poor rubbish collection ... Shortfalls in many budget areas ... Market going to a private Company .... all sponsored imo by Central Govt cuts

Dont know how much ... but then we are bribed with a pittance and our local MP is in the queue

No thanks

[Mr1Croft]

As a Labour Voter in her constituency, can't stand her.

If you email her, the auto responder you get is in direct breach of GDPR, DPA and PECR as it adds you to her mailing list automatically (so no option to consent).

When I wrote to her to inform her of this (and the direct articles, recitals and bills she was breaching) I got back a rude response that said as a Party member I am already on the list and wasting public money and time writing to her.

I'm currently waiting the outcome of an investigation from the ICO...

[Donnywolf]

Flint wins Road Safety Award

Brilliant at U Turns ?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/south-yorkshire-mp-scoops-award-for-national-road-safety-1-9581206

[albie]

Surprised no leavers have been on to say they support Flint and her 30 pieces of silver plan.
After all, she is saying it is because they voted leave in Donny that it is OK to do this in their name.

Perhaps Leave voters also think that taking a backhander to support the Tories is not really what they had in mind?

[hoolahoop]

I have been trying to engage with Caroline Flint for nearly 2 years -  she is rude, dismissive and to be honest a poor MP.

DON'T LET ME EVEN GET STARTED ON HER.

[hoolahoop]

9/3/2017- response to a number of issues raised with her


Thank you for your email regarding the European Union.

I hope this email explains my position clearly.

Although I campaigned for Remain, I respect the referendum decision, and I want its outcome honoured.

I, therefore, voted to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, when the Government introduced a Bill in the Commons. 

I believe the strident arguments between Leave and Remain supporters need to be put behind us.  Everyone needs to work for the best outcome for Britain as we leave the European Union.

In my view, that will involve a close trading relationship, with the UK gaining as much access to the single market as possible, while not being a member.  This protects our right to negotiate our own trading arrangements with other countries outside the EU.  It will also involve some fair rules to control migration.  Free movement, as we know it, will end. 

The public will expect everyone to work together, across parties, in the national interest, to get the best deal from our departure.  I hope the Prime Minister will adopt this approach as well.  It is very likely that Parliament will be asked to vote on the final deal; but I do not agree with those politicians who hope to use that vote to force a second referendum on our membership.

I believe that the UK will still need a close relationship even after we leave.  The EU is our largest trading partner and we co-operate on security, organised crime and other important issues, which must continue.  We also have over 2 million Brits living and working in Europe; and our universities gain fees from many European students who study here. Keeping those arrangements in place is in our interests.

I am supporting the Brexit Together initiative organised by British Future, which brings together both Leave and Remain supporters to work towards these ends.  More information can be found here:

http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/news/leave-and-remain-voices-back-shared-vision-for-how-uk-can-brexit-together/

In respect of the two proposals from the House of Lords, I support Parliament having a meaningful vote on the final deal - before the European Parliament has a say - which the Prime Minister has already agreed to.  I also supported an amendment in the Commons so grant EU citizens working here the right to continue working.  This is a sensible step, which the Prime Minister has also agreed to.  I think those amendments are right and whether or not the Government accepts them, I believe that is where we will get to in the end. 

Thank you for contacting me.  I hope this makes clear the approach I will be taking.

Yours

Caroline Flint

[Donnywolf]

.... and I hope this makes clear the approach I will be taking

If Ms Flint is still standing at the next Election and thus maybe my MP - I will not vote for her. In fact I will do what people should NEVER do and not vote for the first time in any Election

I will retain that stance till I peg it OR till I vote Labour again with a different Candidate for my Constituency OR even more remotely when PR of some kind comes along

[hoolahoop]

As a Labour Voter in her constituency, can't stand her.

If you email her, the auto responder you get is in direct breach of GDPR, DPA and PECR as it adds you to her mailing list automatically (so no option to consent).

When I wrote to her to inform her of this (and the direct articles, recitals and bills she was breaching) I got back a rude response that said as a Party member I am already on the list and wasting public money and time writing to her.

I'm currently waiting the outcome of an investigation from the ICO...

I too have had a couple of rude responses from her  that I haven't pinned above. Tbf I have just given out the general position she held in March 2017. Indeed there is no need to bribe her because ,whatever she would probably vote for May's government without recognising that voters opinions might have changed .

This was a bent Referendum brought about by charlatans without a plan, a referendum that involved the use of voter suppression , downright lies and exaggerations maximising the fears of voters .
This Referendum pissed all over electoral rules of conduct without any public recognition from either front bench . The fines Vote Leave & Leave.EU have received along with further fines on Arron Banks would have created a major scandal had this occurred in a General Election.

[hoolahoop]

.... and I hope this makes clear the approach I will be taking

If Ms Flint is still standing at the next Election and thus maybe my MP - I will not vote for her. In fact I will do what people should NEVER do and not vote for the first time in any Election

I will retain that stance till I peg it OR till I vote Labour again with a different Candidate for my Constituency OR even more remotely when PR of some kind comes along

John I will be doing likewise , I am disgusted with the behaviour of the Labour Party and especially Flint over this Referendum . The Tory scabs won't be getting my vote either.

An MP of a Socialist Party that would vote with or for a Party persuing the destruction of people's Rights and Protections at work or for freedom of movement of 65,000,000 on their own continent would be ridiculed by the socialists of the past .
Particularly in view of the illegality that she and the Labour Party have turned a blind to above.  The "will of the people " trumps decency, honesty and any thought that the working man should retain decent protections, rights and freedoms.

[hoolahoop]

Fines on Leave campaign/ campaigners so far

Vote Leave .........£ 60,000
D.Grimes ............£ 20,000
Vets for Britain...£      250
..............................................
Leave.EU.............£ 70,000
Eldon Ins(ICO)....£135,000
------------------------------------------
Total so far.........£285,250

Apologies if I've missed any fines off this list. Of course there are still investigations that were referred to the police from the original Vote Leave Electoral Commission findings and of course outstanding matters with the Serious Fraud squad on Arron Banks re. How he funded the campaign with £8,000,000 supposedly of " his " money

[tommy toes]

In the interests of fairness, I met her several times during my career involving treating people with alcohol issues and always found her to be friendly, down to earth and very proactive.
(I wasn't aware of her personal stuff around alcohol at the time)

I don't agree with her stand on Brexit though, it is a betrayal.

[Filo]

This is the hypocrisy of the Woman

Flint employs her husband as her Senior Parliamentary Assistant on a salary up to £40,000.[25] She was listed in articles in the Daily Telegraph and Guardian criticising the practice of MPs employing family members, on the lines that it promotes nepotism.[26] [27] Although MPs who were first elected in 2017 have been banned from employing family members, the restriction is not retrospective - meaning that Flint's employment of her husband is lawful.[28]

[RoversAlias]

For those who say they won't vote at all as it's Labour or no one...why not vote for one of the minor candidates? An independent standee or perhaps the Green candidate, if they choose to run in the constituency?

Full disclosure, I am a Green Party supporter and vote that way myself, but I find it disappointing when people choose not to vote although I understand the reasoning in this instance. I will just always encourage people to vote if they are capable.

[DonnyOsmond]

I've moved from a Caroline Flint constituency to a John Mann one, either way I'd probably vote Lib Dems next. If possible.

[Donnywolf]

For those who say they won't vote at all as it's Labour or no one...why not vote for one of the minor candidates? An independent standee or perhaps the Green candidate, if they choose to run in the constituency?

Full disclosure, I am a Green Party supporter and vote that way myself, but I find it disappointing when people choose not to vote although I understand the reasoning in this instance. I will just always encourage people to vote if they are capable.

I would vote for the Lib Dems or Green Party if PR came in and they got a fairer crack of the whip instead of being stuck in this unfair FPTP method

The big 2 of course will resist any changes as it suits them. OK they will be out of Government for a while while a fresh set of Voters forget how bad they were (either Party) but then they will be back until they screw up and the opposite Party gets in again

[BillyStubbsTears]

Some short memories out there.

Voting for the LDs?
That's the LDs who welshed on their key core policies when seat at the Cabinet were dangled in front of them.

There's a fair argument to say that no one is more responsible for the shit storm that we're now in than that epitome of out-of-his-depth-ness, Clegg.

He fought the 2010 election on an economic policy of Keynesian reflation to get us out of the Great Recession. 

Then after the Election, he suddenly announced (and these are his own words) that he had changed his mind a few day before polling day and that he was now supporting the Tory Austerity agenda.

There has never been an act like that from a senior politician in my lifetime.

Putting the Austerity agenda into action was a monumental disaster.

The economy flatlined for 3 years.

Real wages declined.

Folk were working longer hours for the same money, or were getting poorer.

It was THAT, not immigration, which led to the rise of UKIP.

The Lads had always captured the protest vote. Now there was nowhere for that to go and UKIP hoovered it up.

The rise of UKIP stirred up the Europe debate on the Right.

Cameron got spooked by the threat of UKIP on the march and eating into the Tory Euro-sceptic vote in 2015.

That is the one and only reason he announced that we'd have a referendum after the 2015 GE.

Brexit. Clegg's doing. Not deliberately but through his sheer f**king incompetence.