Be a couple of folk...

[BillyStubbsTears]

...on here tonight pissed off.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rigo.

For someone who has watched so much football, you don't really understand football do you?

[NickDRFC]

Means nothing if they don't go on to win it (just like Barcelona in 2017 vs PSG), but I think they will now.

Try telling any Liverpool fan, anywhere, that tonight means nothing after what they’ve just witnessed, regardless of what comes next. Not sure you’d like the replies!

[pib]

That’s like saying our win at Brentford was meaningless because we got relegated the following year.

Nobody can ever take away that memory or that feeling. I’d take that relegation over and over again to have had that Brentford moment.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rigo.

For someone who has watched so much football, you don't really understand football do you?

It's a great comeback - but if they don't win the competition, it'll count for nothing.

Given it puts them in the final after achieving something so incredible (assuming they hold on), I think they'll win it. And win it well!

And that's precisely what I mean.

Because, unless you're a bean counter, football isn't just about winning trophies.

It's about winning MEMORIES.

My most profound experience ever as a football fan was that split second of dead time between the ball leaving David Cameron's boot, and Andy Warrington's fingertips somehow, impossibly, inexplicably tipping it round the post.

Because, in that split second, nothing else in the world mattered. My team had come back from the dead and fought its way back to the brink of something. Since Richardson had killed it, I'd lost my grandad and my dad who had taken me to my first ever matches. It was me and our kid left as the eldest males in the family. Supporting the club that we'd been bequeathed. Watching it claw it's way spitting and fighting from the grave. And we were on the verge of finally laying the ghost of that bas**rd...

And then Cameron's shot is screaming into the top corner in the last minute and it's all being snatched away from us.

All of that flashed through my mind in that fraction of a second of dread, followed by the greatest elation imaginable. Elation because we were still alive. Still fighting for our chance. Everything else was secondary after that.

That's MY most prized memory. And do you know what? No trophy that we could ever win could top that.

Stoke didn't top it.
Cardiff didn't top it.
Wembley didn't top it.
Brentford didn't top it (possibly because I was cursing myself for not being there).

I swear that if we won the Champions League, that wouldn't top it.

Because it's not about winning trophies. Not really. It's about memories. Moments when the world stops and all that matters is the life-changing/life-affirming feeling of being a fan.

I hate the Premier League and the Champions League concepts with a vengeance. But I've got enough connection with the heart and soul of football to know that Liverpool have just created a memory that few who saw it will ever forget. Whether or not they win the trophy this year is bordering on irrelevant after that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But it's NOT about the players is it?

If it was about the players, there'd be nothing to put football above Korfball or draughts.

The whole reason that football is the world game is because if the people who watch it.

And, by the way, those who watch it and define success by silverware are the most loathsome creations on God's earth. They are the people who walk round Donny in various eras wearing Leeds, Liverpool, Blackburn, Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea, Man City shirts. Reviled by all true football fans.

[Boomstick]

Rigo.

For someone who has watched so much football, you don't really understand football do you?

It's a great comeback - but if they don't win the competition, it'll count for nothing.

Given it puts them in the final after achieving something so incredible (assuming they hold on), I think they'll win it. And win it well!

And that's precisely what I mean.

Because, unless your a bean counter, football isn't just about winning trophies.

It's about winning MEMORIES.

My most profound experience ever as a football fan was that split second of dead time between the ball leaving David Cameron's boot, and Andy Warrington's fingertips somehow, impossibly, inexplicably tipping it round the post.

Because, in that split second, nothing else in the world mattered. My team had come back from the dead and fought its way back to the brink of something. Since Richardson had killed it, I'd lost my grandad and my dad who had taken me to my first ever matches. It was me and our kid left as the eldest males in the family. Supporting the club that we'd been bequeathed. Watching it claw it's way spitting and fighting from the grave. And we were on the verge of finally laying the ghost of that bas**rd...

And then Cameron's shot is screaming into the top corner in the last minute and it's all being snatched away from us.

All of that flashed through my mind in that fraction of a second of dread, followed by the greatest elation imaginable. Elation because we were still alive. Still fighting for our chance. Everything else was secondary after that.

That's MY most prized memory. And do you know what? No trophy that we could ever win could top that.

Stoke didn't top it.
Cardiff didn't top it.
Wembley didn't top it.
Brentford didn't top it (possibly because I was cursing myself for not being there).

I swear that if we won the Champions League, that wouldn't top it.

Because it's not about winning trophies. Not really. It's about memories. Moments when the world stops and all that matters is the life-changing/life-affirming feeling of being a fan.

I hate the Premier League and the Champions League concepts with a vengeance. But I've got enough connection with the heart and soul of football to know that Liverpool have just created a memory that few who saw it will ever forget. Whether or not they win the trophy this year is bordering on irrelevant after that.

Aye, I can imagine most Liverpool 'fans' treasuring the memory of sitting in their front room in front of the telly for the umpteenth night on the trot.
Then telling all and sundry of their undying love for the club they never actually go and watch.

[BillyStubbsTears]

...on here tonight pissed off.

As I was saying...

[Boomstick]

Who's pissed off old lad?  I'm merely refuting your point.
The way Liverpool fans bleet on, ALL that matters for them are trophies, and the amount of money they have spent, they should be winning them

[BillyStubbsTears]

Who's pissed off old lad?  I'm merely refuting your point.
The way Liverpool fans bleet on, ALL that matters for them are trophies, and the amount of money they have spent, they should be winning them

I know 4 Liverpool fans. Every one of them knowledgeable about the wider game, sanguine about the highs and lows of football and generally interesting to talk with.

If you're attracting less attractive types...well...draw your own conclusions.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But it's NOT about the players is it?

If it was about the players, there'd be nothing to put football above Korfball or draughts.

The whole reason that football is the world game is because if the people who watch it.

And, by the way, those who watch it and define success by silverware are the most loathsome creations on God's earth. They are the people who walk round Donny in various eras wearing Leeds, Liverpool, Blackburn, Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea, Man City shirts. Reviled by all true football fans.

So football isn't about the players then? Try telling them that!

Rigo

Self-evidently it isn't.

If no-one watched football, who'd give a shit how good Messi was?

[Danmckay456]

Billy I agree mate sometimes I remember that Chester game and think wow so glad I went to that game it had everything some proper misters won that game that day

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dan

As you know...you had to be there.

I once tried explaining that experience to a couple or three businessmen Man Utd fans on a train over a bottle of wine one night. Poor dears. They just did not get it. I feel for them.

[RoversAlias]

Rigo, your determination to be contrarian in as many topics as possible is actually starting to impress me.

[Red wizard]

Who's pissed off old lad?  I'm merely refuting your point.
The way Liverpool fans bleet on, ALL that matters for them are trophies, and the amount of money they have spent, they should be winning them

Most seasons they would have the league won by now but there up against pep and man c who are just as good. I know history will show they haven't won it but they should see this season as one of the best they've had in years. Presuming they finish 2nd. There won't be many football fans who won't be happy for them tonight.

[Bezza]

Billy you have got it spot on, Liverpool were MAGNIFICENT,

[drfchound]

Dan

As you know...you had to be there.

I once tried explaining that experience to a couple or three businessmen Man Utd fans on a train over a bottle of wine one night. Poor dears. They just did not get it. I feel for them.

I once worked with a Man Utd “fan” who had never been to see them play live.
We were discussing how difficult it was for a Rovers to stay in the Championship.
I said I was happy for us just to stay there even if we lost more than we won over the season.
He said that he couldn’t understand how I could follow a club that flatlined all the time and that unless your team was winning trophies regularly there was no interest.

[Herbert Anchovy]

I’m sure it was a cracking match last night but I really couldn’t give two hoots who’d won. The days of me supporting ‘English’ clubs in Europe are long gone. They’re English in location only, but I’m sure given half the chance that some of these foreign owners would quite happily move the clubs too.

[IDM]

I had the same feelings about the wonder of football when Barca won 6-1 to turn around a 0-4 deficit vs PSG a few seasons back..  nowt to do with England..

[RedJ]

Dan

As you know...you had to be there.

I once tried explaining that experience to a couple or three businessmen Man Utd fans on a train over a bottle of wine one night. Poor dears. They just did not get it. I feel for them.

I once worked with a Man Utd “fan” who had never been to see them play live.
We were discussing how difficult it was for a Rovers to stay in the Championship.
I said I was happy for us just to stay there even if we lost more than we won over the season.
He said that he couldn’t understand how I could follow a club that flatlined all the time and that unless your team was winning trophies regularly there was no interest.

He must not be very interested in United since Ferguson left then.

[Wiltshire Exile]

Rigo.

For someone who has watched so much football, you don't really understand football do you?

It's a great comeback - but if they don't win the competition, it'll count for nothing.

Given it puts them in the final after achieving something so incredible (assuming they hold on), I think they'll win it. And win it well!

And that's precisely what I mean.

Because, unless you're a bean counter, football isn't just about winning trophies.

It's about winning MEMORIES.

My most profound experience ever as a football fan was that split second of dead time between the ball leaving David Cameron's boot, and Andy Warrington's fingertips somehow, impossibly, inexplicably tipping it round the post.

Because, in that split second, nothing else in the world mattered. My team had come back from the dead and fought its way back to the brink of something. Since Richardson had killed it, I'd lost my grandad and my dad who had taken me to my first ever matches. It was me and our kid left as the eldest males in the family. Supporting the club that we'd been bequeathed. Watching it claw it's way spitting and fighting from the grave. And we were on the verge of finally laying the ghost of that bas**rd...

And then Cameron's shot is screaming into the top corner in the last minute and it's all being snatched away from us.

All of that flashed through my mind in that fraction of a second of dread, followed by the greatest elation imaginable. Elation because we were still alive. Still fighting for our chance. Everything else was secondary after that.

That's MY most prized memory. And do you know what? No trophy that we could ever win could top that.

Stoke didn't top it.
Cardiff didn't top it.
Wembley didn't top it.
Brentford didn't top it (possibly because I was cursing myself for not being there).

I swear that if we won the Champions League, that wouldn't top it.

Because it's not about winning trophies. Not really. It's about memories. Moments when the world stops and all that matters is the life-changing/life-affirming feeling of being a fan.

I hate the Premier League and the Champions League concepts with a vengeance. But I've got enough connection with the heart and soul of football to know that Liverpool have just created a memory that few who saw it will ever forget. Whether or not they win the trophy this year is bordering on irrelevant after that.

Well bugger me, Billy. You’ve written some good stuff on this forum over the years, but this is up there with the best!
 

[wing commander]

 A controversial view on Billy's post raises a point I read elsewhere last night but looking at it from a totally different point of view regarding memory's.

.A Coventry fan raged that whilst it's great for Liverpool fans to crow on about the memory of last night it was THEY and their fans behaviour who were responsible for English clubs being banned from Europe..During that time Wimbledon,Coventry and Wednesday would have being playing  European football some for the only chance they will ever get.Everton had one of the best sides in the late 80's that was dismantled as players left due to not playing in Europe..Were was the memory's for us...

Interesting point of view...

[MachoMadness]

That Tris Whitman equaliser at OBV in the 1st leg runs it pretty close, though. Absolute scenes.

[IDM]

Point of order there.. “they and their fans”.?? “And”.??

Football hooliganism was the fault of the fans, and society, but not the clubs surely.??

[Boomstick]

A controversial view on Billy's post raises a point I read elsewhere last night but looking at it from a totally different point of view regarding memory's.

.A Coventry fan raged that whilst it's great for Liverpool fans to crow on about the memory of last night it was THEY and their fans behaviour who were responsible for English clubs being banned from Europe..During that time Wimbledon,Coventry and Wednesday would have being playing  European football some for the only chance they will ever get.Everton had one of the best sides in the late 80's that was dismantled as players left due to not playing in Europe..Were was the memory's for us...

Interesting point of view...

It's spot on, that club has a horrible past. It's trophies will always be tainted.
For me, it's personal and deep seated.

[Boomstick]

Point of order there.. “they and their fans”.?? “And”.??

Football hooliganism was the fault of the fans, and society, but not the clubs surely.??

Aye, but without fans football is nothing.
It's the clubs responsibility to control the fans

[drfchound]

Point of order there.. “they and their fans”.?? “And”.??

Football hooliganism was the fault of the fans, and society, but not the clubs surely.??

Aye, but without fans football is nothing.
It's the clubs responsibility to control the fans

Rovers had better rein those young upstarts in then.

[IDM]

Point of order there.. “they and their fans”.?? “And”.??

Football hooliganism was the fault of the fans, and society, but not the clubs surely.??

Aye, but without fans football is nothing.
It's the clubs responsibility to control the fans

It’s the fans’ responsibility to behave in an appropriate manner.!!!

[graingrover]

If ever you have run a marathon you will know that getting to the finish line is only important to you because of all the work you have put into your training .
Sure Rigo they have won nothing yet but the joy of last night is perhaps a greater treasure than winning the final .

[Herbert Anchovy]

A controversial view on Billy's post raises a point I read elsewhere last night but looking at it from a totally different point of view regarding memory's.

.A Coventry fan raged that whilst it's great for Liverpool fans to crow on about the memory of last night it was THEY and their fans behaviour who were responsible for English clubs being banned from Europe..During that time Wimbledon,Coventry and Wednesday would have being playing  European football some for the only chance they will ever get.Everton had one of the best sides in the late 80's that was dismantled as players left due to not playing in Europe..Were was the memory's for us...

Interesting point of view...

It’s a myth. We were banned from Europe for causing mayhem over a number of years, not just the Heysal disaster. Agreed that was the final straw perhaps but we’d been threatened with a ban previously. English supporters had been causing trouble in Europe since the 60’s and UEFA simply had enough of us. So, to blame only Liverpool isn’t correct.