European election

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right.

So all those polls that say nowhere remotely close to a majority want No Deal?

The vote last week where 35% voted for parties whose policy is No Deal and 65% voted for parties whose policies are expressedly NOT No Deal?

We ignore all that evidence, right?

[Axholme Lion]

BS.

Right. So we've got that established then. A large majority in the country as a whole DON'T want a No Deal Brexit. Agreed?

Don't agree, I dare say there are huge numbers who want no deal over a bad deal, or a deal they don't like.

So I still say there's a majority who would prefer a no deal, countrywide.

Correct. It's a shame none of our politicians can see this.

[Boomstick]

Right.

So all those polls that say nowhere remotely close to a majority want No Deal?

The vote last week where 35% voted for parties whose policy is No Deal and 65% voted for parties whose policies are expressedly NOT No Deal?

We ignore all that evidence, right?

At this stage people are still living in hope of getting a good deal. When that disappears, it will be no deal as the fall back option.
If you can't see that, your living in cloud cookoo land.

[DonnyOsmond]

The WUMs are out in force today.

A majority want No Deal.

[wilts rover]

Wilts.

1) Right. So now we ARE drawing conclusions from this vote are we? Page one of the playbook - deny. Page two - if denial doesn't work, dissemble. Trust me. I used to know the playbook word for word.

2) On which theme, anyone relying of SkwakBox for a balanced take is well off down the dissembling road. Me, I prefer to look at the numbers myself rather than being told what to think by a neo-Stalinist Twitter feed run by someone in Len McCluskey's top pocket.

What a load of claptrap and rubbish all you do (again) is show your own bias and prejudice.

Nowhere, ever, have I denied any results anywhere. I deny your analysis of the results and extrapolating them into a future GE because:

a) the turnout was 36.7%

b) several analysts have shown the uneven nature of them, particularly the Lib Dem vote.

c) in several leave areas where the Labour vote went down - the remain vote did not go sequentially up

Do you know what that Skwakbox link shows - an illustration of what I have just described,  this composite of two maps showing the vote share taken from the BBC webpages. Thats propoganda now is it!

[wilts rover]

BS.

Right. So we've got that established then. A large majority in the country as a whole DON'T want a No Deal Brexit. Agreed?

Don't agree, I dare say there are huge numbers who want no deal over a bad deal, or a deal they don't like.

So I still say there's a majority who would prefer a no deal, countrywide.

Do you have any evidence for that or have I missed something? As I said in my post to Billy (twice) it is impossible to extrapolate from the EU election what a majority in the country want.

The turnout in the referendum was 72%. In the EU Election it was 36.7%. The only sensible, accurate conclusion you can take from that is that half the people who voted in the last referendum didn't vote last Thursday.

How do you know how this other 36% will vote? Because they certainly didn't support the Brexit Party last week?

[DonnyOsmond]

BS.

Right. So we've got that established then. A large majority in the country as a whole DON'T want a No Deal Brexit. Agreed?

Don't agree, I dare say there are huge numbers who want no deal over a bad deal, or a deal they don't like.

So I still say there's a majority who would prefer a no deal, countrywide.

Do you have any evidence for that or have I missed something? As I said in my post to Billy (twice) it is impossible to extrapolate from the EU election what a majority in the country want.

The turnout in the referendum was 72%. In the EU Election it was 36.7%. The only sensible, accurate conclusion you can take from that is that half the people who voted in the last referendum didn't vote last Thursday.

How do you know how this other 36% will vote? Because they certainly didn't support the Brexit Party last week?

It's like polling though, you take a large number of people and see what the percentages are, so even if a larger percentage did vote it would be likely that the vote percentages we're still very similar, maybe with some slight changes here and there.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

You consistently deny that we can draw any conclusions from polling. Then show poll figures which back up your argument.

You denied that we can draw any conclusions from last week's vote. Then showed analyses which purport to show an argument about where parties' support is.

It's from the same stable as your claim that you couldn't draw any conclusions about responsibility for Salisbury or Douma, followed by lots of arguments about why Russia probably wasn't responsible.

I fully understand an approach that is predicated upon questioning uncertain data, but if that's your approach then be consistent. Otherwise it looks like cherry picking.

Regarding SkwawkBox, I read it regularly. Which is why I know that it is a classic example of an organisation that presents highly skewed views. That image is a perfect example. It compares a dominant Leave party with one member of a fragmented Leave coalition. And I see that today it's doing hit pieces on Paul Mason for being a traitor to the cause for daring to question if the Dear Leaders' inner circle is infallible.

[sha66y]

So, the election results have told us what we already knew.

There's a hardcore anti-EU group of 40-45% of the population. That group voted overwhelmingly for (Farage's) UKIP in 2014. They've voted overwhelmingly in similar numbers for (Farage's) BP this week.

That makes sense. Some folk will follow a Fuhrer...sorry...Leader wherever he takes them, because it's easier to give your support to a larger than life personality, than to get down an dirty with the detail of policy.

That much was expected and it happened. No big earthquake there

The really interesting thing is what's happened on the elsewhere.

The Tory and Lab votes have collapsed. Again, as we expected. But look where they have gone. There's been a far bigger increase in the Remain supporting parties' vote share (LD, Green, ChUK, PC, SNP) than there has in the vote share of Brexit + UKIP over UKIP last time.

That's a massive outcome.

The country has shifted strongly towards Remain supporting parties.

Just goes to show that both the Greens and Lib Dem’s do NOT believe in Democracy...
To try and overturn a referendum result that adhered to a democratic process is wrong....
the majority voted to leave the EU...

just because these democratically elected MPs appear to have no clue how to crawl , from under the EU stranglehold and actually do there jobs is not acceptable.....the voters voted and the message was clear...

We didn’t vote for a second referendum just in case the first one didn’t go as planned...

[wilts rover]

Billy

I shall repeat again I have never denied anything. I have told you what conclusions I draw from last weeks vote.

I also disagree with the conclusions you drew from that vote and given you evidence why - three times now.

Apologies if I am not allowed to disagree with you or that you dont like where evidence comes from but I am afraid it shows the Brexit Party took votes from Labour all across the country but the Lib Dems didnt. And a 36.7% turnout shows 33% of voters didn't support either option on offer last week.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

You can disagree with me all you want. Equally, I can point out where you're being inconsistent or not interpreting the data correctly.

For example, claiming that the data "shows the Brexit Party took votes from Labour all across the country but the Lib Dems didnt" is such utter nonsense that it barely deserves answering. But since you appear to believe it, I suppose I ought to do.

Lord Ashcroft (yes, yes, I KNOW!) has a poll out today dissecting last week's results. About 1/8th of the people who voted Labour in 2017, and also voted last week, switched to BP. Compared to over 50% who switched to LD, Green or ChUK.

I agree that the movement from Lab to Remain supporting alternatives wasn't uniform across the country. But the absolute numbers are so large that, even where the movement was lowest, it was still greater than the numbers who moved from Lab to BP.

And THAT reflects the poll at the start of the year, saying that if Lab went into a GE supporting Ref2, they'd lose 2% support. Whereas is they went in supporting Brexit, they'd lose 16%.

You can put whatever spin you want and choose whatever detailed numbers you want. The big picture is massive and undeniable.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Talking about painting Black as White and being in denial :-
best not to believe the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation , or tabloids

remain won

1.    Isolated Brit‏ @IsolatedBrit 1d1 day ago
More
Isolated Brit Retweeted Mike Galsworthy
Dear #BBC: I'm paying my licence fee, but if I want intelligent #Brexit analysis, I have to get it from a private citizen broadcasting from his living room. 

Analysis: Brexit Party made almost zero gain over 2014 UKIP & assorted nationalist parties...
   

   
   People's Vote UK and 4 others follow
 Will Hutton‏ @williamnhutton 20h20 hours ago
More
A week ago Remain hoped that if we pulled out all the stops and voted tactically we might get 36, even 37 Remain MEPs. We did it! We have 37. And even on a close definition of Remain excluding Labour we beat Leave. This is not a mandate for No Deal on Oct 31st - or even leaving.

Do you mean the Brexit Bashing Corporation the home of anti British, anti Christian, pro muslim, pro gay, pro EU thought?

Yeah, they never give Nigel Farage any screen time, the bas**rds.

[DonnyOsmond]

Talking about painting Black as White and being in denial :-
best not to believe the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation , or tabloids

remain won

1.    Isolated Brit‏ @IsolatedBrit 1d1 day ago
More
Isolated Brit Retweeted Mike Galsworthy
Dear #BBC: I'm paying my licence fee, but if I want intelligent #Brexit analysis, I have to get it from a private citizen broadcasting from his living room. 

Analysis: Brexit Party made almost zero gain over 2014 UKIP & assorted nationalist parties...
   

   
   People's Vote UK and 4 others follow
 Will Hutton‏ @williamnhutton 20h20 hours ago
More
A week ago Remain hoped that if we pulled out all the stops and voted tactically we might get 36, even 37 Remain MEPs. We did it! We have 37. And even on a close definition of Remain excluding Labour we beat Leave. This is not a mandate for No Deal on Oct 31st - or even leaving.

Do you mean the Brexit Bashing Corporation the home of anti British, anti Christian, pro muslim, pro gay, pro EU thought?

I'm not gay myself but what's wrong with being gay?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let me get this right.

The BBC that runs live radio broadcasts of church services every day is anti-Christian?

Christ (!) there's some b*llocks poured out on here. It's like a word processor set onto automatic to churn out trite general moans.

[SydneyRover]

So, the election results have told us what we already knew.

There's a hardcore anti-EU group of 40-45% of the population. That group voted overwhelmingly for (Farage's) UKIP in 2014. They've voted overwhelmingly in similar numbers for (Farage's) BP this week.

That makes sense. Some folk will follow a Fuhrer...sorry...Leader wherever he takes them, because it's easier to give your support to a larger than life personality, than to get down an dirty with the detail of policy.

That much was expected and it happened. No big earthquake there

The really interesting thing is what's happened on the elsewhere.

The Tory and Lab votes have collapsed. Again, as we expected. But look where they have gone. There's been a far bigger increase in the Remain supporting parties' vote share (LD, Green, ChUK, PC, SNP) than there has in the vote share of Brexit + UKIP over UKIP last time.

That's a massive outcome.

The country has shifted strongly towards Remain supporting parties.

Just goes to show that both the Greens and Lib Dem’s do NOT believe in Democracy...
To try and overturn a referendum result that adhered to a democratic process is wrong....
the majority voted to leave the EU...

just because these democratically elected MPs appear to have no clue how to crawl , from under the EU stranglehold and actually do there jobs is not acceptable.....the voters voted and the message was clear...

We didn’t vote for a second referendum just in case the first one didn’t go as planned...

I think you must have have missed the bit of conversation that asked how has Remain has stopped wrexit?

[Axholme Lion]

Talking about painting Black as White and being in denial :-
best not to believe the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation , or tabloids

remain won

1.    Isolated Brit‏ @IsolatedBrit 1d1 day ago
More
Isolated Brit Retweeted Mike Galsworthy
Dear #BBC: I'm paying my licence fee, but if I want intelligent #Brexit analysis, I have to get it from a private citizen broadcasting from his living room. 

Analysis: Brexit Party made almost zero gain over 2014 UKIP & assorted nationalist parties...
   

   
   People's Vote UK and 4 others follow
 Will Hutton‏ @williamnhutton 20h20 hours ago
More
A week ago Remain hoped that if we pulled out all the stops and voted tactically we might get 36, even 37 Remain MEPs. We did it! We have 37. And even on a close definition of Remain excluding Labour we beat Leave. This is not a mandate for No Deal on Oct 31st - or even leaving.

Do you mean the Brexit Bashing Corporation the home of anti British, anti Christian, pro muslim, pro gay, pro EU thought?

I'm not gay myself but what's wrong with being gay?

Nothing, but I don't want it rammed down my throat all the time, or anywhere else for that matter!

[sha66y]

So, the election results have told us what we already knew.

There's a hardcore anti-EU group of 40-45% of the population. That group voted overwhelmingly for (Farage's) UKIP in 2014. They've voted overwhelmingly in similar numbers for (Farage's) BP this week.

That makes sense. Some folk will follow a Fuhrer...sorry...Leader wherever he takes them, because it's easier to give your support to a larger than life personality, than to get down an dirty with the detail of policy.

That much was expected and it happened. No big earthquake there

The really interesting thing is what's happened on the elsewhere.

The Tory and Lab votes have collapsed. Again, as we expected. But look where they have gone. There's been a far bigger increase in the Remain supporting parties' vote share (LD, Green, ChUK, PC, SNP) than there has in the vote share of Brexit + UKIP over UKIP last time.

That's a massive outcome.

The country has shifted strongly towards Remain supporting parties.

Just goes to show that both the Greens and Lib Dem’s do NOT believe in Democracy...
To try and overturn a referendum result that adhered to a democratic process is wrong....
the majority voted to leave the EU...

just because these democratically elected MPs appear to have no clue how to crawl , from under the EU stranglehold and actually do there jobs is not acceptable.....the voters voted and the message was clear...

We didn’t vote for a second referendum just in case the first one didn’t go as planned...

I think you must have have missed the bit of conversation that asked how has Remain has stopped wrexit?

I didn’t want to dissect that deep and get embroiled in stats and suppositions, ....
Any one who can say that the greens plus Lib Dems euro election result equates to a “ remain vote” is deluded.....
The referendum happened
The result was passed
We have elected to leave the EU

I don’t remember a caveat stating that if we voted to leave, actually means we want to remain!

I personally would welcome a new referendum just to see the faces of those who think it’s a foregone conclusion that the scaremongering has worked.....lol

[BillyStubbsTears]

And what scaremongering is that?

[Bentley Bullet]

Get the' sens to Bentley. There's still food on the shelves and it's almost June.

[SydneyRover]

So, the election results have told us what we already knew.

There's a hardcore anti-EU group of 40-45% of the population. That group voted overwhelmingly for (Farage's) UKIP in 2014. They've voted overwhelmingly in similar numbers for (Farage's) BP this week.

That makes sense. Some folk will follow a Fuhrer...sorry...Leader wherever he takes them, because it's easier to give your support to a larger than life personality, than to get down an dirty with the detail of policy.

That much was expected and it happened. No big earthquake there

The really interesting thing is what's happened on the elsewhere.

The Tory and Lab votes have collapsed. Again, as we expected. But look where they have gone. There's been a far bigger increase in the Remain supporting parties' vote share (LD, Green, ChUK, PC, SNP) than there has in the vote share of Brexit + UKIP over UKIP last time.

That's a massive outcome.

The country has shifted strongly towards Remain supporting parties.

Just goes to show that both the Greens and Lib Dem’s do NOT believe in Democracy...
To try and overturn a referendum result that adhered to a democratic process is wrong....
the majority voted to leave the EU...

just because these democratically elected MPs appear to have no clue how to crawl , from under the EU stranglehold and actually do there jobs is not acceptable.....the voters voted and the message was clear...

We didn’t vote for a second referendum just in case the first one didn’t go as planned...

I think you must have have missed the bit of conversation that asked how has Remain has stopped wrexit?

I didn’t want to dissect that deep and get embroiled in stats and suppositions, ....
Any one who can say that the greens plus Lib Dems euro election result equates to a “ remain vote” is deluded.....
The referendum happened
The result was passed
We have elected to leave the EU

I don’t remember a caveat stating that if we voted to leave, actually means we want to remain!

I personally would welcome a new referendum just to see the faces of those who think it’s a foregone conclusion that the scaremongering has worked.....lol

The earlier conversation was about the failure of wrexiteers to complete the task and that it wasn't Remain that stopped you.

[Yargo]

Ahh Glyn.

That faux naivete!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlcT-dBdtE