Parliament to be prorogued

[Ldr]

BST, pretty sure I said its immoral earlier. Your paragraphs on how the process has been abused by MPs is making my point for me. However you view the referendum question it is what it is and the electorate voted to leave the EU no questions about how. For parliament to then treat the electorate with the contempt it has for political gain is beneath contempt. These are people who want to rule us like an elite, and let's not pretend labour are any better, Corbyn would love nothing more than to seize power under this guise of a temporary pm

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

That "we voted Leave, no questions about how" line is not acceptable is it.

The official Vote Leave campaign said that we would not even begin the process of leaving without a deal. Anyone in the Remain side who pointed out the possibility of the scenario we are now in was shouted down as a Project Fear monger.

You cannot now retrospectively impose the view that this was all clear and obvious at the time

This is too important to treat like that. We're not talking about membership rules for the Bowls Club. This is the single most important decision of the past 3 generations and you cannot brush under the carpet the way that the Leave side campaigned as though it were some minor technicality.

[Ldr]

That's not what I'm saying as you well know. It is what it is and we deal with it. What I see as the greatest problem is parliament thinking it can dismiss the will of the people as easy as it has. Agree with it or not (and you are tying yourself in knots over the campaign and question, I understand your need to not accept how people could have a differing opinion to you unless you convince yourself everyone was lied to) it was a binary question. Parliament on all sides of the house has acted with the greatest contempt and you dont seem to acknowledge that as an issue

[glosterred]

Thought Clem Attlee prorogued parliament in 1948, to get the Labour governments bills through the house.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

But as I've said, it is PRECISELY the people now running the Govt who are the ones who stopped us leaving in March! And they are now trying to take us out on conditions that they insisted in 2016 would never arise.


How can they now claim that they are respecting the 2016 Ref result?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glos.

That was because the unelected House of Lords was trying to delay a policy passed by the House of Commons. That is a totally different issue.

[Bentley Bullet]

Ldr.

But as I've said, it is PRECISELY the people now running the Govt who are the ones who stopped us leaving in March! And they are now trying to take us out on conditions that they insisted in 2016 would never arise.


How can they now claim that they are respecting the 2016 Ref result?

They are still respecting the 2016 Ref result, but not on the terms struck in May's deal. They didn't vote against it because they wanted to force another referendum and remain like Corbyn's lot did.

[IDM]

So it’s ok for Tories to vote against May’s government, but not against Johnson’s.?

Support us or get the sack.?

Sorry but what BJ and his cabinet are doing is deliberately stifling parliamentary process, and goes way beyond any Brexit issues..

It’s turning out democracy into a dictatorship, from a PM the public didn’t elect..

There’s logic in there somewhere but I can’t see it..

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Given Corbyn has said this morning that he'll back a GE, I suspect BJ will push for that this week and then we all get our say.

[SydneyRover]

Given Corbyn has said this morning that he'll back a GE, I suspect BJ will push for that this week and then we all get our say.

there's a lot of hard negotiations to be done by labour surely to agree to GE, I read just now that the govt needs 2/3 support but can change the date once set it's set without their support???

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

Corbyn said the order of importance is 1) Block No Deal.
2) Have a GE.

No 2 without 1, as it should be, and as Labour said in the 2017 GE.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

And this will be BJ's ploy.

1. No deal is blocked.
2. Blame Labour for blocking Brexit etc etc in GE aim to take the majority.
3. Get the majority and push through what he wants with mandate for the next 5 years.

It's arrogant, a gamble and tricky, but feels like his intention.

It's almost winner takes all, win it he has power, lose he's done.  I wonder if he's done the maths on another hung parliament though...

[IDM]

BJ may want a GE called to allow for a further shut down leading to no deal brexit by default..

[Donnywolf]

WHY do they keep playing games - trying to trick their way to where they want to be - playing a game of chess and all the time people get more and more p****d off

They are supposed to be running the country for goodness sake

[IDM]

They couldn’t run for a bus..

[glosterred]

Glos.

That was because the unelected House of Lords was trying to delay a policy passed by the House of Commons. That is a totally different issue.

Same problem, just different house causing that problem. Same result, a prorogued parliament

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's exactly it BFYP

Now we're finally at the endgame of the whole process. Nothing to do with Brexit, that's just the means. The end was always Johnson as PM with a majority..

Up to the country to decide if they really want to give power to an amoral, unprincipled serial liar.

[Ldr]

That's exactly it BFYP

Now we're finally at the endgame of the whole process. Nothing to do with Brexit, that's just the means. The end was always Johnson as PM with a majority..

Up to the country to decide if they really want to give power to an amoral, unprincipled serial liar.

Or to Boris Johnson  😂😂

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glos.

Yes but totally different circumstances. The Lords couldn't have blocked Labour's policy in 1948. Only delayed it. And the crucial difference was that Labour's policy had overwhelming support in the democratically elected Commons. Johnson's policy doesn't.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Good one Ldr.

I don't recall Corbyn having twice been sacked for lying through his teeth, lying about the existence of a love child, leaving his (3rd) wife for a younger woman when she had cancer, conspiring with a friend to have a journalist assaulted, spending a decade as a journalist making up stories about the EU, undermining the democratic processes of Parliament....etc, etc.

[Ldr]

Maybe not, but he does sympathize with terrorists to the point of supporting them publicly whilst they were killing our own people (IRA) invited them to tea in the HoC (Hamas and Hezbollah) by your own admission silent on Russian atrocities in Syria. Unable (unwilling) to control the antisemitism within labour, again happy to let the Momentum bully boys hound out good mps, drag the party to the extremes of the spectrum. Are you seriously saying either man is fit to lead this country?

[IDM]

Thats the problem though isn’t it.?

Enough people won’t want Corbyn, and plenty won’t want Boris..

It’s like that episode of South Park, where the election candidates are a giant douche and a turd sandwich..

[Ldr]

Sadly true, the only people In politics these days are scum on the take

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

That's exactly it BFYP

Now we're finally at the endgame of the whole process. Nothing to do with Brexit, that's just the means. The end was always Johnson as PM with a majority..

Up to the country to decide if they really want to give power to an amoral, unprincipled serial liar.

It just feels like a huge gamble as surely needs a huge swing in plenty Labour areas or the hope is the left vote will split enough to give them seats.  I can't see it but there's no doubt that the guys running the Tories right now are pretty good at this stuff and they wouldn't take a risk without confidence.

[albie]

BFYP

Corbyn said the order of importance is 1) Block No Deal.
2) Have a GE.

No 2 without 1, as it should be, and as Labour said in the 2017 GE.

Billy,

Alongside point 1 there is also the need for a delay to the deadline.
No deal ruled out goes hand in glove with this.

Labour and the dissident coalition should deny the 2/3 majority by holding back (some will abstain), with a view to a VoC after the other measures are in place.

5 weeks needed for a GE run-in, so the delay needs to ensure that a GE cannot be held until the extension has kicked in.

[SydneyRover]

Maybe not, but he does sympathize with terrorists to the point of supporting them publicly whilst they were killing our own people (IRA) invited them to tea in the HoC (Hamas and Hezbollah) by your own admission silent on Russian atrocities in Syria. Unable (unwilling) to control the antisemitism within labour, again happy to let the Momentum bully boys hound out good mps, drag the party to the extremes of the spectrum. Are you seriously saying either man is fit to lead this country?

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, no?

[glosterred]

But aren’t the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah all prescribed terrorist organisations in this country, which if I’m right make them terrorist and not freedom fighters

[SydneyRover]

But aren’t the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah all prescribed terrorist organisations in this country, which if I’m right make them terrorist and not freedom fighters

You're going off script

[Ldr]

Maybe not, but he does sympathize with terrorists to the point of supporting them publicly whilst they were killing our own people (IRA) invited them to tea in the HoC (Hamas and Hezbollah) by your own admission silent on Russian atrocities in Syria. Unable (unwilling) to control the antisemitism within labour, again happy to let the Momentum bully boys hound out good mps, drag the party to the extremes of the spectrum. Are you seriously saying either man is fit to lead this country?

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, no?
[/quote

Maybe not, but he does sympathize with terrorists to the point of supporting them publicly whilst they were killing our own people (IRA) invited them to tea in the HoC (Hamas and Hezbollah) by your own admission silent on Russian atrocities in Syria. Unable (unwilling) to control the antisemitism within labour, again happy to let the Momentum bully boys hound out good mps, drag the party to the extremes of the spectrum. Are you seriously saying either man is fit to lead this country?

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, no?

So can you clarify you would be happy with someone who publicly supported those who were killing British troops as pm?. Please answer yes or no, no deflection along the lines of, "if it's a choice between" or "hes better than" please, just a simple yes or no. For the record I say no, I also say no to Johnson

[SydneyRover]

Certainly if can tell me why Britain were in Ireland at all.