Parliament to be prorogued

[BillyStubbsTears]

Philip Hammond on R4 this morning.

Says he's repeatedly asked Johnson for evidence of what he's tabled as an alternative deal to the EU and had no response.

Angela Merkel agreed with Johnson 2 weeks ago that there were 30 days left to sort out a new deal. This is the 12th day. She said yesterday that no proposals had been brought forward by Johnson.

Draw your own conclusions about whether Johnson, a man with a track record as long as several arms of blithely lying, is really trying to negotiate a new deal. Or is he's playing political games for the upcoming GE, conning people into his line that he's negotiating flexibly and imaginatively but the EU and Parliament are blocking him.

Tough call int it?

[SydneyRover]

Don't you love it when desperately loyal souls put their faith in those that have brought the UK to the edge of the cliff and caused the loss of 100m in the process and are still not able to tell us what they want or what their actions will bring but still try the hackneyed ''look over there'' tactics.

[Bentley Bullet]

More classic deflecting!

[SydneyRover]

More heads in the sand

[IDM]

IDM. Of course, showing support for Rovers is far less serious than showing no support for democracy, that goes without saying and is not my point.

The issue IS about stopping Brexit for many remoaners, and some of them are on this forum in my opinion.

Like I keep saying, I don't believe many people want a no-deal conclusion, but I do believe that the threat to walk away from the EU's 'final offer' is a pivotal part of the negotiations. Take away that threat and the EU hold a far superior hand.

You might think that's b*llocks. I don't.

It’s not just a threat though, it is more reality that Boris and his cronies want no deal.  He says not, but his actions show otherwise..

How can the same politicians who rebelled against May now determine that their colleagues cannot oppose the government for fear of the sack,?

The government fixing parliamentary procedures.?

Smacks of 1933 and is very frightening..

Yes I would prefer if we stayed in the EU but realistically the best option is to leave with a deal - politically if not economically..

[Bentley Bullet]

It is Boris's job to look like he wants no deal. Have you ever played Poker? Do you understand why the best bluffers are the best players?

[SydneyRover]

Philip Hammond on R4 this morning.

Says he's repeatedly asked Johnson for evidence of what he's tabled as an alternative deal to the EU and had no response.

Angela Merkel agreed with Johnson 2 weeks ago that there were 30 days left to sort out a new deal. This is the 12th day. She said yesterday that no proposals had been brought forward by Johnson.

Draw your own conclusions about whether Johnson, a man with a track record as long as several arms of blithely lying, is really trying to negotiate a new deal. Or is he's playing political games for the upcoming GE, conning people into his line that he's negotiating flexibly and imaginatively but the EU and Parliament are blocking him.

Tough call int it?

This blows the bluff wide open, trying to insist that if no-deal was taken from the table the EU would see our cards ........................ they can see we don't have any cards by the mere fact we have not offered up anything different to that already on the table.

[Bentley Bullet]

You show me yours and I'll show you mine!

[SydneyRover]

You show me yours and I'll show you mine!

Everyone says you don't have one, classic deflecting, not discussing the content

[Bentley Bullet]

You know all about that, don't you! You have a deflect defect!

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is the paper for Scholarship applications for Eton from 2011.

Remember, Eton is Johnson's old school.

Look at Question 1c.

https://t.co/JipHMq1H83?amp=1

[Ldr]

I'd love to read your answer BST 😁

[Glyn_Wigley]

"They were rebel MPs from my own party, it had to be done."

[BillyStubbsTears]

I couldn't do it Ldr, because I don't believe in it. The point is, that place requires you to be able to convincingly persuade (or "dupe" if you prefer) people through clever use of words. Whether you agree with what you are arguing or not.

Do you now get why Johnson wrote two passionate articles at the start of the Ref campaign; one wholeheartedly arguing for Leave, the other, equally stridently saying Remain was in the country's best interests? And then he binned one and went balls out with the other.

[Ldr]

Mate, I dont trust any politician as they are all in it for themselves, I dont trust media as everyone has a paymaster. I trust what I experience

[BillyStubbsTears]

But with respect, that's just a cop out Ldr.

It's a logical nonsense to suggest that everyone is equally culpable. I agree that we have a generation of poor quality politicians, but it is still the responsibility of grown up electors to judge between them. You are going to have SOMEONE as PM at any point in time so you need to make a rational judgement on which of an imperfect lot you prefer.

Some bend the truth occasionally. Some lie 5 times before getting out of (someone else's) bed.

Personally, I would take Corbyn before Johnson every time. God knows I don't like Corbyn and I think he needs guiding and constraining because I don't think he's actually very smart. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I think he's probably less intellectually equipped to be PM than any PM we've ever had, with the possible exception of May. But what he isn't is a venal, amoral liar who puts his personal ambition above all else. And I don't have a choice of anyone else.

[Ldr]

I don't currently feel I could vote for any party atm, hoping there would be and independent on the ballot locally or I'll just spoil the paper. If you have seen Fahrenheit 11/9 about politics in the US it will give you an idea. Non voters are in effect the US's biggest party and I feel that's the way it could end up over here. Make enough people think their vote doesnt count and eventually they will give up. Apathy then rules

[BillyStubbsTears]

But that's the whole point. NO politician is ever exactly what anyone wants. We have to make a choice from imperfect (often VERY imperfect) alternatives.

It's a very dangerous road when intelligent people just absent themselves from making that choice.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Personally, I would take Corbyn before Johnson every time. God knows I don't like Corbyn and I think he needs guiding and constraining because I don't think he's actually very smart. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I think he's probably less intellectually equipped to be PM than any PM we've ever had, with the possible exception of May. But what he isn't is a venal, amoral liar who puts his personal ambition above all else. And I don't have a choice of anyone else.

I would question if anyone knows enough in full of the parties' policies to make an informed choice right now, I certainly don't and I have a limited interest in it.

I do though think that Boris is making a big error, I don't think he'll get a solid majority when you throw in the Lib Dem, SNP effect I feel he'll lose more there than he'll gain and we'll see a Labour-Lib coalition personally.  What he may play in an election is throwing the gauntlet at Labour, are they remain or leave?  The Lib Dems have been pretty clear they're remain in all circumstances, referendum or not.  I suspect Corbyn will side with going for a second referendum.  The only so called coup IMO is the move to stop Brexit hence BJ's selling point, but is it enough?  I'm doubtful.

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1168641286292824064

Well who'd have thought it eh?

Johnson's Rasputin admits that the line about Johnson re-negotiating with the EU is a sham.

See, if you're going to play poker, you don't just bluff and bluff and bluff. You need to be able to predict what hand your opponent has, and what he'll do.

As I've been saying for months, the idea that Johnson could or would be able to negotiate ANYTHING with the EU by threatening to cripple OUR economy if they didn't give us what we wanted is a concept so comprehensively stupid that I really do fear for anyone who ever bought into it. And now we have it confirmed that it was a "sham" all along.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Talking about Dominic Cummings holding Leave voters' intelligence in contempt, here he is in his own words saying how the Vote Leave campaign worked.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BazzieSmith/status/1168664085325582336

Two things he doesn't say, but which are facts.

1) There is an ongoing criminal investigation into what he did here. The Met Police and National Crime Agency have sat on it for nearly 18 months. Meanwhile he is running the country.

2) Those 1.5bn ads he sent to 7million profiled voters. They were mostly those lies about the £350bn and Turks getting the right to come and live next door to you. He's said elsewhere that the purpose of those wasn't to change people's minds. It was to enrage people who wouldn't normally vote into getting out and voting. That was the purpose of the profiling. To find people who came from demographics that disliked the EU but we're politically disengaged.

I can we'll see why you have disdain for politics Ldr, when the result of doing this is that you get to run the country.

[Donnywolf]

Notice it is saying that Johnson had confirmed plans to suspend Parliament just a few days before he said it was something he would never do. Oh and of course then he did

If he was Pinocchio and laid on his back his nose would be higher that "Big Ben"

[SydneyRover]

Yes DW who in their right mind would have anything to do with johnson, I'd imagine St Helena would be an appropriate retirement spot for him.

''Johnson decided to suspend parliament 'two weeks before asking Queen', PM ticked secret memo while refusing to confirm decision in public, Edinburgh court hears''

Tw@t personified.

''In public Johnson was then refusing to confirm he planned to do so but he ticked the secret memo and said “yes”, before sending Da Costa a handwritten note the following day, where he criticised the convention where MPs return for several weeks of Commons business after the summer holidays before breaking again for conference season.

He told Da Costa the “whole September session [at Westminster] is a rigmarole introduced to show the public that MPs are earning their crust. I don’t see anything especially shocking about this prorogation.”

This exchange of memos came 12 days before Johnson’s privy councillors met the Queen at Balmoral to ask her to prorogue parliament, on the grounds he wanted to present a significant new legislative programme on 14 October''

this is unbelievable, you poor sods so desperate you would support this piece of ----

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/03/johnson-suspend-parliament-before-asking-queen-court-hears

[scawsby steve]

Yes DW who in their right mind would have anything to do with johnson, I'd imagine St Helena would be an appropriate retirement spot for him.

''Johnson decided to suspend parliament 'two weeks before asking Queen', PM ticked secret memo while refusing to confirm decision in public, Edinburgh court hears''

Tw@t personified.

''In public Johnson was then refusing to confirm he planned to do so but he ticked the secret memo and said “yes”, before sending Da Costa a handwritten note the following day, where he criticised the convention where MPs return for several weeks of Commons business after the summer holidays before breaking again for conference season.

He told Da Costa the “whole September session [at Westminster] is a rigmarole introduced to show the public that MPs are earning their crust. I don’t see anything especially shocking about this prorogation.”

This exchange of memos came 12 days before Johnson’s privy councillors met the Queen at Balmoral to ask her to prorogue parliament, on the grounds he wanted to present a significant new legislative programme on 14 October''

this is unbelievable, you poor sods so desperate you would support this piece of ----

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/03/johnson-suspend-parliament-before-asking-queen-court-hears

Which poor sods?

[SydneyRover]

all those poor sods that support him, it was right there!

[Filo]

Tory abstainers have also been threatened with the sack tonight

[wilts rover]

Tonight - if everyone follows through on what they have said they will do - Johnson and Cummings will expel Winston Churchill's grandson from the Tory Party for standing up for the project his grandfather initiated.

Good luck in the forthcoming election #VoteTory for Stalinism in the UK

[SydneyRover]

Tonight - if everyone follows through on what they have said they will do - Johnson and Cummings will expel Winston Churchill's grandson from the Tory Party for standing up for the project his grandfather initiated.

Good luck in the forthcoming election #VoteTory for Stalinism in the UK

Good point Wilts the United States of Europe was something I had long forgotten about.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating insight into Cummings today.

Apparently, as a bunch of Tory rebels were waiting in a corridor to see Johnson, Cummings turned up and screamed at  them for an extended period, finishing off buly saying "Who ARE you anyway. I don't recognise any of you."

Dominic old lad, if you're reading this, they are MPs. Elected by the public. Question is, who the flying f**k are YOU?

[Bentley Bullet]

Tonight - if everyone follows through on what they have said they will do - Johnson and Cummings will expel Winston Churchill's grandson from the Tory Party for standing up for the project his grandfather initiated.

Good luck in the forthcoming election #VoteTory for Stalinism in the UK

Good point Wilts the United States of Europe was something I had long forgotten about.

Wasn't Churchill all in favour of a united Europe as long as it didn’t include Britain?