Parliament to be prorogued

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Agreed BFYP.

The jump from 20-40% tax rate is way too big, and at too low a salary.

I fully support higher tax rates for higher earners but that step is far too severe.

In the age of computers, there's no reason at all why tax rates couldn't be continually graded. Where you pay a tiny bit higher tax rate on every successive thousand quid you earn.

But we seem to have an obsession with simplicity. And of course, what the Right wants is a single flat rate, which would lead to a massive redistribution of wealth from the poorer to the richer.

Everyone of you who supports Farage, be aware that THAT is the sort of society he wants us to be.

I agree and disagree.

I agree in that Farage's policies on this and anything like this are largely pathetic - hence why they wouldn't get my vote.  All well and good saying they could tie up a pact with the tories, but the impact on other policies is too much for me.

I agree in that the jumps are too high.  Not sure a sliding scale is quite right, but certainly more of a staggered rise would be adequate.  It's not just these tax impacts either, child benefit is another, above 50k and you start to lose that so it's another secret tax, perhaps fine if you earn 200k but at lower levels it really isn't.  That's another poorly thought out means testing aswell.  One person in a family earning £60k= no child benefit.  Two persons earning £49k each = £98k =full child benefit - bizarre.

[wilts rover]

Some interesting points in the discussion above. I am reminded of the report in the papers a few weeks back of the property owning billionaire who paid £35 tax in two years. And the quote by Grace Blakeley about the real divide in the country not being leave v remain but 'those who live off work v those who live off wealth'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48481320
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley

'It’s fundamentally wrong that people who get their income from betting on stocks & shares or playing the property market pay less tax than those who go out to work'
https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1170977089656430593

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Fair tax systems don't work like that though. Pretty much every tax system in the world has higher income tax rates fro the higher paid.

You start from the basic fact that Govt needs a certain level of tax income to provide the services that we all want. NHS, schools, pensions, roads, railways, armed forces etc, etc. Then you try to come up with a fair way of funding that.

A system that increases income tax the higher your salary is fair for several reasons.

1) Everyone has to pay for the bare necessities of life. Food. Shelter. Clothes. So the first level of income that we get should be taxed at zero rate, because otherwise we'd be taking money away from the poorest that they need to simply survive.

2) The same argument applies as you go up the scale from bare subsistence, to things you require for a basic quality of life. We all need some basic insurance, transport costs, basic leisure activities, communications, educational development. So after the zero rate income, you charge the next chunk of income at a relatively low rate.

3) Beyond that, more of a person's income goes on luxuries, non-essentials or savings. Those are the things that make your material life more enjoyable, and, given that you have to make the tax books balance, it is only fair that the tax rate on this higher income is higher, rather than taking more tax from income that is used for basic existence.

4) Here's the REALLY big argument. The poorer you are, the more of your income as a percentage is taken through flatter-rate taxes. VAT, alcohol, tobacco, fuel duties, road tax etc. So, if you had a flat rate of income tax (which is what Farage has spent his life demanding) you end up with the very richest paying LESS of their income as a percentage in tax than the very poorest.

That's why no country I know of has a flat rate of income tax. But hey, Farage is on the side of the little man, so I'm sure he knows what he is doing.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, I suggested a percentage-based rate for everyone. That way the biggest earners pay more albeit percentage-wise the same as everyone else.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

Yes. I know. But that doesn't answer any of my points.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BB.

Yes. I know. But that doesn't answer any of my points.

And it stunts economic growth.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And with Parliament conveniently sidelined, so there's no way of controlling the Govt, look what the bas**rds are cooking up now.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexGspence/status/1171419531169947648

Remember, this is Cummings who is still under criminal investigation for his actions during the 2016 Referendum. Cummings who used Cambridge Analytica to identify people who were susceptible to being bombarded with lies about the EU. Cummings who is now taking it to a whole new level. He doesn't even have to break the law on financing the operation now. He can just drag data in from every time that anyone of us uses the gov.uk website to claim benefits or pension or pay income tax or car tax or apply for a passport.

He's wanting that data about you and me and every other f**ker in the country. Presumably so he can target his lies in the General Election.

This is how is happens folks. If you just "meh" at every step, you don't deserve to live in a functioning democracy.

[Bentley Bullet]

Overtaxing the successful rich and causing a brain drain will stunt economic growth more.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Afghanistan's top rate of income tax is 20%. Yemen's is 15%. Guatemala's is 7%.

Sweden's top rate is 57%. Japan's is 56%. Denmark's is 56%.

Remind me which are the successful and unsuccessful economies there?

[NickDRFC]

Slight tangent here but something happened to me recently that shows that there’s a lot of ignorance around taxes in this country...

I head up the finance function for a software company and our sales team are on commission plans. One of the account managers who has been selling well recently asked for a meeting “to have a quick chat about tax”. I thought it would be to ask about how his tax was calculated given his monthly gross earnings can vary quite significantly, but what he actually wanted to discuss were his fears to sell any more as he thought that his income reaching the higher rate threshold would mean ALL his taxable income being taxed at the higher rate and so increasing his gross pay would actually reduce his net pay.

He’s a 33 year old with 2 kids!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Slight tangent here but something happened to me recently that shows that there’s a lot of ignorance around taxes in this country...

I head up the finance function for a software company and our sales team are on commission plans. One of the account managers who has been selling well recently asked for a meeting “to have a quick chat about tax”. I thought it would be to ask about how his tax was calculated given his monthly gross earnings can vary quite significantly, but what he actually wanted to discuss were his fears to sell any more as he thought that his income reaching the higher rate threshold would mean ALL his taxable income being taxed at the higher rate and so increasing his gross pay would actually reduce his net pay.

He’s a 33 year old with 2 kids!

I would agree with this, I have had similar questions a number of times on all sorts of taxes.  Is it too hard or are people unsure?  It can be fairly complex when you start to bring in some of the BIK elements etc.

[GazLaz]

Slight tangent here but something happened to me recently that shows that there’s a lot of ignorance around taxes in this country...

I head up the finance function for a software company and our sales team are on commission plans. One of the account managers who has been selling well recently asked for a meeting “to have a quick chat about tax”. I thought it would be to ask about how his tax was calculated given his monthly gross earnings can vary quite significantly, but what he actually wanted to discuss were his fears to sell any more as he thought that his income reaching the higher rate threshold would mean ALL his taxable income being taxed at the higher rate and so increasing his gross pay would actually reduce his net pay.

He’s a 33 year old with 2 kids!

It’s amazing how many people I’ve spoken to over the years that think that. “You’re no better off for earning more!” Is the classic line. The old “super tax”.

[GazLaz]

Slight tangent here but something happened to me recently that shows that there’s a lot of ignorance around taxes in this country...

I head up the finance function for a software company and our sales team are on commission plans. One of the account managers who has been selling well recently asked for a meeting “to have a quick chat about tax”. I thought it would be to ask about how his tax was calculated given his monthly gross earnings can vary quite significantly, but what he actually wanted to discuss were his fears to sell any more as he thought that his income reaching the higher rate threshold would mean ALL his taxable income being taxed at the higher rate and so increasing his gross pay would actually reduce his net pay.

He’s a 33 year old with 2 kids!

I would agree with this, I have had similar questions a number of times on all sorts of taxes.  Is it too hard or are people unsure?  It can be fairly complex when you start to bring in some of the BIK elements etc.

Tax needn’t be taxing! I think if people actually took the time to learn the basics, it would be a bit clearer to them.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Slight tangent here but something happened to me recently that shows that there’s a lot of ignorance around taxes in this country...

I head up the finance function for a software company and our sales team are on commission plans. One of the account managers who has been selling well recently asked for a meeting “to have a quick chat about tax”. I thought it would be to ask about how his tax was calculated given his monthly gross earnings can vary quite significantly, but what he actually wanted to discuss were his fears to sell any more as he thought that his income reaching the higher rate threshold would mean ALL his taxable income being taxed at the higher rate and so increasing his gross pay would actually reduce his net pay.

He’s a 33 year old with 2 kids!

I would agree with this, I have had similar questions a number of times on all sorts of taxes.  Is it too hard or are people unsure?  It can be fairly complex when you start to bring in some of the BIK elements etc.

Tax needn’t be taxing! I think if people actually took the time to learn the basics, it would be a bit clearer to them.

Perhaps, but when you start getting in to company car rates, benefits in kind etc with people who shouldn't be expected to understand those things I can understand the difficulty.

[idler]

I was talking to a guy at the gym on Monday. He used to work in the benefits system. He said that there were loads of instances where benefits were denied to people becoming unemployed because their employers has deducted NI contributions but not passed them on.
He said the government could only ask but not demand that the companies pay the arrears. Surely this can't be right?

[BillyStubbsTears]

No that's not right Idler.

Any Company accountant who did that would be jailed if they were found out.

[idler]

I thought that it was a bit far fetched but I have heard before where people's NI contributions haven't matched what they have payed.
Whether companies pay them in monthly or quarterly rather than the old fashioned weekly I don't know.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It varies, commonly monthly but it's not as simple as a payment either, often can be netting off agreements etc.  They wouldnt stop the benefit if last pay slip proving deductions were provided either, or shouldn't.

[albie]

BREAKING NEWS;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-live-brexit-today-latest-news-no-deal-tory-lead-eu-a9100206.html

The Law stands above you, Mr Johnson.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Whoa!

Up to the Supreme Court on Tuesday then.

But this is momentous. This is the very highest court in Scotland, unanimously ruling that the PM of Great Britain and Northern Ireland knowingly and wilfully lied to the Queen over a matter of constitutional procedure.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just a thought.

If Johnson is found to be a treasonous lying shitebag by the Supreme Court, I guess he could appeal to the European Court of Justice...

[Filo]

Treason?


Off with his head I say!

[albie]

Queen could sack the lying toerag, for giving incorrect advice maliciously.

Failing that, there is still the Tower.
That and the red hot poker.

Did a job back in the day!

[drfcsteve]

I was about to say this is unbelievable, but if any PM was ever going to lie to the Queen, chances are it would be serial liar Johnson.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It'll be fascinating to see what happens to the Tory poll ratings if the Supreme Court confirms this.

There's the biggest question of our time. Far, far bigger than Brexit. Does anyone on the Right actually care about being routinely lied to by the PM?

[Copps is Magic]

The comments on the end of BBC articles are usually full of very angry people/trolls but I thought this was a good one

Great day for Leavers. The 17.4m who voted for our democratically elected Sovereign Parliament to take back control of lawmaking, and for independent UK courts to take back control of interpreting law.

[RobTheRover]

I do hope LNER/DNA Card are ready for the surge in train tickets to London to see Boris's head on a spike outside the Tower.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's a thought.

Can you imagine any PM in history being found by the courts to have lied to the Queen, and not immediately resigning?

It's never even crossed my mind that this excuse for a man would resign. Because lying is what defines him and always has done.

[RobTheRover]

Surely Dom Cummings wont let him take the fall on his own, will he?  He will want his share of the collateral damage too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see the line from Cummings now is that the Scottish Courts are untrustworthy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1171726506772631553

He's a f**king maniac. There is nothing he won't try to smash in order to have his way.