NHS

[SydneyRover]

I suppose you have to balance that against all the subsidies that these now privatized companies are going to claim or are claiming.

"Net government support to the rail industry in Great Britain for 2017/18 was £6.4 billion, of which £2.1 billion was for HS2. This financial support is the level of funding the government provides towards “operating, maintaining, renewing and enhancing the railway”.

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-does-government-subsidise-railways/

" The £93bn handshake: businesses pocket huge subsidies and tax breaks
This article is more than 4 years old"

Guardian’s analysis reveals that hidden subsidies, direct grants and tax breaks to big business amount to £3,500 a year given by each UK household''

[wilts rover]

Claim

The prime minister said he planned a rise in funding for the NHS, worth £34bn, which would be the “largest in modern memory”.

Reality

Johnson is correct that the funding boost is the biggest cash increase, worth an additional £34bn a year. Accounting for inflation, it is worth £20.5bn by 2023-24.

However, in percentage terms, it is worth about 3.4% more a year on average.

This is far from being the biggest increase on record. It is below the 3.5% average annual growth recorded prior to 1979, and far below the 6% average increase in the Blair/Brown years of Labour government.

It is also below the 4.3% increase pledged by Labour in its 2019 manifesto.

What do you want from your NHS?

Hey Sydney it cuts both ways when it comes to inflation:
The Labour Party has recently unveiled plans to bring large swathes of the British economy into what they term ‘public ownership’. Even before their bumper manifesto, they had already promised to nationalise the Royal Mail, the railways, energy suppliers, and water and sewage companies. Estimates vary for exactly how much that might costs, but the Centre for Policy Studies puts the extra borrowing required at a pretty eye-watering £176bn.

Since then, Labour has decided to go one better by pledging to nationalise BT and to provide everyone in the UK with ‘free’ broadband. BT chief executive, Philip Jansen, said that this policy alone would cost an additional £100bn – equivalent to about 4.5% of our annual national output.

Who would have thought ‘free’ stuff could be so expensive?

But even these enormous costs are an underestimate as they do not include future liabilities. For example, if the government were to issue bonds to buy the Royal Mail at its current market value of around £2.1bn, this would not only add an additional £2.1bn to the national debt, but the government would also need to find money each and every year to service the interest on that debt, as well as fund future infrastructure investment in the business. Ultimately, taxpayers would be left to foot the bill for ongoing investment costs, as well as left to pick up the tab for any potential losses.

What a load of rubbish

Nationalising water, energy and Royal Mail would cost only a quarter of that, £49.7 billion and pay for itself in 7 years say the Public Service Research Institute.

Ulitmately taxpayers would be saving on rip off bills and have a public asset

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalise-royal-mail-energy-water-savings-bills-national-grid-a9203636.html

[wilts rover]

As for railways they have actually nearly all been re-nationalised - although by other countries state run railway companies. The British taxpayer subsidizes TrenItalia, Deutsche Bahn, Hong Kong Rail and the like:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trains-uk-railways-renationalise-countries-operators-companies-a9058961.html

[SydneyRover]

Network rail the biggest chunk was never privatized but why should the public bail out those train companies that get into trouble cos they can't run a train set set, that's what business is about isn't it, balancing the risk to make a profit?

Keeping the profits, public bail outs for the losses.


"East coast line bailout puts rail privatisation back in spotlight

Once again, a franchise operator has bid too much for a contract and run out of steam''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/10/east-coast-line-bailout-rail-privatisation-spotlight

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not quite correct Sydney.

The network WAS privatised as Railtrack.

It was an unmitigated disaster. Mismanagement led to a string of major accidents in the 90s and it was re-nationalised.

But hey! Private sector is always best, eh?

[SydneyRover]

Thanks, can't remember that bst, if I knew?

Pouring public money into train companies that are only interested in returns for shareholders has to stop.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sydney.

Railtrack was a disaster almost beyond comprehension.

It oversaw three major mainline crashes in 4 years, all due to signalling or track problems.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southall_rail_crash

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladbroke_Grove_rail_crash

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield_rail_crash

After the last crash, the mainline rail network virtually ground to a standstill as they put emergency track checks and Draconian speed limits in place, to make up for the lack of maintenance they'd carried out over previous years. I was regularly having meetings in London then and I'd usually book a train that was timetabled to arrive 2-3 hours earlier than necessary, to account for the time we'd be delayed.

Oh aye. And in the middle of all that, after making a £1/2bn loss and having to be bailed out by the Govt, the Railtrack board paid a £130bn dividend to shareholders.

Private sector, eh?

[SydneyRover]

It's astonishing when you examine the detail, privatization because the private sector can do it better?

“Government direct subsidy of the railways is around £5 billion per year, an increase of over 200% since privatisation… Fares across all operators are 20% higher in real terms than they were in January 1995.”

"Between 1995 and 2018, rail tickets on average went up 20% in price, taking into account inflation.''

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-does-government-subsidise-railways/

[SydneyRover]

"'General election: NHS staff lead protests as Trump visits London for Nato talks – live''

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1201622678001586176/video/1

[SydneyRover]

What Trump said about NHS and trade deal

This is what President Trump said when he was asked if he thought the NHS should be on the table in trade deals. He replied:

"No, not at all, I have nothing to do with it. Never even thought about it, honestly ...

I don’t even know where that rumour started. We have absolutely nothing to do with it and we wouldn’t want to if you handed it to us on a silver platter, we want nothing to do with it''

I believe you 

[SydneyRover]

It must be fun for those that have to record the meeting between Johnson and Trump, some contest?

World's Biggest Liar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Biggest_Liar

[foxbat]

Mark Landler of @NYTimes says the NHS is almost certainly on the table in Boris Johnson and Donald Trump’s post-Brexit trade talks.

If you’re voting for Johnson, then you’re voting for the end of NHS.

This will see people die because they can’t afford medical insurance.

Can you afford to pay healthcare premiums for your entire family?

People with existing conditions will face loaded premiums.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just a thought when Johnson says the NHS is not on the table.

https://twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1201167719279644672

[BillyStubbsTears]

And as for the Brexit Party, well...do you really need to ask?
https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1201476781947129856

It is truly baffling how many older voters, who are the ones who are going to need the NHS more and more over the next few years, are rushing to vote for Johnson and Farage.

Talk about lack of self-interest!

[albie]

Demonic Rabid puts everyone's mind at rest in the Independent;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-brexit-nhs-privatisation-trump-us-drugs-price-increase-a9230661.html

Good to know all is well!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Trump's says.
"I have nothing to do with it (the NHS). Never even thought about it, honestly. I don't even know where that rumour started."

Hang on. Hang on. Oh yeah.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DIianrVDMilE&ved=2ahUKEwjE9J_s4JnmAhXYQEEAHf8pAx4QwqsBMAB6BAgHEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0E7Gr_UuS3y4Pf-o2fMKQ5

[Sprotyrover]

Trump's says.
"I have nothing to do with it (the NHS). Never even thought about it, honestly. I don't even know where that rumour started."

Hang on. Hang on. Oh yeah.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DIianrVDMilE&ved=2ahUKEwjE9J_s4JnmAhXYQEEAHf8pAx4QwqsBMAB6BAgHEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0E7Gr_UuS3y4Pf-o2fMKQ5

I don't know Billy, I expected Sydney to be first to come out with that rubbish! It must be reallly disappointing mate ,there there!

[BillyStubbsTears]

I haven't got a Scooby what you're on about Sproty.

Are you saying you believe Trump or you don't?

[wilts rover]

Apparently the Daily Torygraph published a piece today saying that the US-UK trade documents were a Russian fake (also posted by a notable contributor to this site too yesterday).

Both of whom conveniently overlook/forget that the Daily Torygraph published a story in July on how the the US-UK trade talks had stalled - based on the same documents!

Funny old world

https://scramnews.com/telegraph-published-same-leaked-trade-documents-as-jeremy-corbyn-claims-russian-disinformation/

[SydneyRover]

Trump's says.
"I have nothing to do with it (the NHS). Never even thought about it, honestly. I don't even know where that rumour started."

Hang on. Hang on. Oh yeah.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DIianrVDMilE&ved=2ahUKEwjE9J_s4JnmAhXYQEEAHf8pAx4QwqsBMAB6BAgHEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0E7Gr_UuS3y4Pf-o2fMKQ5

I don't know Billy, I expected Sydney to be first to come out with that rubbish! It must be reallly disappointing mate ,there there!

I'm just happy knowing you read my posts Sproty 

[Herbert Anchovy]

It seems that another leading Tory has been found to be confused today.

Dominic Raab on the Today programme “I can tell you, categorically I have never advocated privatisation of the NHS.”

In a book co-authored by Raab and a number of his Tory colleagues in 2011 he said about the NHS “ The current monolith should be broken up. Non profit and private providers should be allowed into the service & compete on price.”

Is there anyone left in the country who genuinely believes that the Tories aren’t looking to flog parts of the NHS?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Someone once said, when people show you who they are and what their beliefs are, believe them.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-said-patients-charged-to-use-the-nhs-2019-12?r=US&IR=T&__twitter_impression=true

[albie]

The evidence just keeps on growing;
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/the-president-the-us-private-health-giant-and-top-nhs-officials-special-relationships/

Clickable links for lovers of detail.

Still, if you want to believe the Spaffman, ignore all that.
Best not to look, it might get in the way.

[wilts rover]

Video of reps from top US pharma companies telling US trade negotiators that US-UK trade deal is “an important opportunity” to deal with “artificially depressed prices” in UK - “dictated” via our “primary payer” system

Getting better at faking them Russians

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1201861148926205952

[Sprotyrover]

Trump's says.
"I have nothing to do with it (the NHS). Never even thought about it, honestly. I don't even know where that rumour started."

Hang on. Hang on. Oh yeah.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DIianrVDMilE&ved=2ahUKEwjE9J_s4JnmAhXYQEEAHf8pAx4QwqsBMAB6BAgHEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0E7Gr_UuS3y4Pf-o2fMKQ5

I don't know Billy, I expected Sydney to be first to come out with that rubbish! It must be reallly disappointing mate ,there there!

I'm just happy knowing you read my posts Sproty 

😉👍🏻

[albie]

There is a site where you can find out the impact on the NHS of austerity and privatisation in your area;
https://nhscuts.org.uk/

Important to realise that this process is ongoing, and further effects are in the pipeline.

[albie]

There is a new film from veteran film maker John Pilger;
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-dirty-war-nhs-exposed-21036152

Unfortunately, it can't be shown by ITV until after the election because of broadcasting rules.
At least the Mirror is publishing a brief summary.

Buyers regret.....we wouldn't want that, once you have cast your vote!

[albie]

Just heard that an earlier film about the running down of the NHS, "The Great NHS Heist", has been put up on YouTube until December 11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwlvLe-X27o&feature=youtu.be

Its the full 2 hour version.
If you have not seen it, worth a look.

[Sprotyrover]

There is a site where you can find out the impact on the NHS of austerity and privatisation in your area;
https://nhscuts.org.uk/

Important to realise that this process is ongoing, and further effects are in the pipeline.

Wow! So this leftie social media lobby group reckons dem der wicked Tories are going to reduce the Araes budget by Half 🤔

[albie]

Sproty,

If you click on the "about" button in the bottom right hand corner, it explains how the calculation is done, and the data sources used.

I hope that helps!