NHS

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

The investment is PRECISELY the thing.

The increase in population is mainly of prime working age people. Precisely the people who do NOT put a burden on public services. But the Tories have overseen a decade of stagnant NHS funding. And THAT is why it's in crisis.

They want you to think it's the fault of them bas**rd migrants. It's not. It's the fault of the bas**rds in charge.

Who was in power from 1997 to 2010 Billy?

Sproty.

Before you make a fool of yourself again, do a bit of research.

NHS funding 1997-2010 and 2010-2019.

Go have a look. It's stunning.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The current population of the UK is 67 million the population in 2000 was 58 million, the birth rate per 1000 has decline from 12 to 11 children barely 2 per family. Where have the 9 million come from, has there been any planning and investment in services and the infrastructure to cope with this rise since 2000 ?

We are living an average 3/4 years longer than the year 2000. It has unfortunately stopped growing in the last few years though.

There is that point and how do you pay for the ageing population?  Personally I'm not sure I want to get old seeing what is happening to people of an age, there is a question as to if people do live too long and if the body can cope with it mentally.  Given my strength is all in my head it's not something I feel I could ever cope with and so sad to see.

[Sprotyrover]

Sproty.

The investment is PRECISELY the thing.

The increase in population is mainly of prime working age people. Precisely the people who do NOT put a burden on public services. But the Tories have overseen a decade of stagnant NHS funding. And THAT is why it's in crisis.

They want you to think it's the fault of them bas**rd migrants. It's not. It's the fault of the bas**rds in charge.

Who was in power from 1997 to 2010 Billy?

Sproty.

Before you make a fool of yourself again, do a bit of research.

NHS funding 1997-2010 and 2010-2019.

Go have a look. It's stunning.

I’m not making a fool of myself I worked very closely with RDASH under Labour and boy did they know how to burn the Publics money. The management wiring structure diagrams were a site to behold, all of those key clinical staff put into management roles off the front line, here’s a good example every time I went to a meeting which was once a week it was a ‘working lunch with a private catering firm provit the Buffet when I asked why they did it they said it was the only way they could get Key Partners to attend their meetings. One manager blew £60 K on a bespoke IT system which failed, another blew £50 employing a firm to do community research work which was totally unnecessary, and then I would get emails in March, we have a load of money to get rid of, do you fancy a Jolly to a Clinical commissioning meeting in London First class on the train.it was not a proper way to spend the Taxpayers money, but it was the LABOUR Way!

[SydneyRover]

The current population of the UK is 67 million the population in 2000 was 58 million, the birth rate per 1000 has decline from 12 to 11 children barely 2 per family. Where have the 9 million come from, has there been any planning and investment in services and the infrastructure to cope with this rise since 2000 ?

Knowing you are a man of facts sproty there's some here for you 

Spending on the NHS in England

https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/

And here

10 charts that show why the NHS is in trouble

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42572110

And here

The NHS explained in eight charts

https://theconversation.com/the-nhs-explained-in-eight-charts-91854

apologies for being so childish 

[albie]

Ch4 news has an interesting overview of the state of the NHS under the Tories;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqyMHsMGD5M

Ignore it at your peril.

[SydneyRover]

The current population of the UK is 67 million the population in 2000 was 58 million, the birth rate per 1000 has decline from 12 to 11 children barely 2 per family. Where have the 9 million come from, has there been any planning and investment in services and the infrastructure to cope with this rise since 2000 ?

You'll fing this interesting I'm sure sproty

Claim: Immigration has put a "massive burden" on the NHS

Reality Check: Nigel Farage made this claim in response to Andrew Neil's questions about how he'd fill vacancies in the NHS and social care, if there were controls, after Brexit, on EU migrants coming to the UK to work. Mr Farage said, in fact, immigration had put a "massive burden" on the health service.

So, what does the evidence show?

The Migration Advisory Committee, an independent public body that advises the government, looked at this as part of its report into the effects of immigration from the European Economic Area (EEA).

It found that migrants from Europe "contribute much more to the health service and the provision of social care in financial resources and through work than they consume in services."

It said migrants from the EEA tend to be younger and healthier than the UK-born population, and consume fewer NHS services than them.

It found "no evidence that migration has reduced the quality of healthcare."

According to the Health Foundation 13.3% of the entire workforce of NHS staff in England, and 28.4% of doctors, are from outside the UK (both EU and non-EU).

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50676321

 

[SydneyRover]

Ch4 news has an interesting overview of the state of the NHS under the Tories;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqyMHsMGD5M

Ignore it at your peril.

If I worked for a trust I'd be shocked-or maybe I wouldn't, it's pretty damning Albie.

[Sprotyrover]

Oh by the way lthough A&E was crammed last night on my way to x Ray I counted 68 empty trolleys in all sorts of shapes and sizes.
One of the nurses mentioned the little Boy in Leeds and he had been put on a Trolley, his mum took him of and took the photo.one of her mates from uni works at Leeds.

[SydneyRover]

I suppose this is not true either sproty?


Thousands of patients die waiting for beds in hospitals – study

Doctors’ report finds 5,449 deaths since 2016 followed delayed admission to A&E

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/10/thousands-of-patients-die-waiting-for-beds-in-hospitals-study

[Herbert Anchovy]

Whether the photo is ‘fake’ or not, what isn’t fake is Boris’ reaction. He is so far removed from the realities of life for normal people it’s unbelievable. Yet silly people still believe he cares.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Oh by the way lthough A&E was crammed last night on my way to x Ray I counted 68 empty trolleys in all sorts of shapes and sizes.
One of the nurses mentioned the little Boy in Leeds and he had been put on a Trolley, his mum took him of and took the photo.one of her mates from uni works at Leeds.

Odd. My mates neighbours cousin was at an A&E in Bristol. One of the Nurses has a mate who had a sister who knew a bloke who worked in a shop in Leeds in 1974. He said it was all b*llocks.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There is talk that it's faked but that's easy to say given the current climate, it's also very easy to believe, but more easily IMO to believe that the rumours of it being fake are fake....

What I can believe is the baby having to sleep in a chair for some time.  Last year we were unfortunate enough to have our youngest (who was less than 6 months at the time) contract meningitis.  The service from doctors surgery through to hospital was superb, the only downside was waiting 3/4 hours for a bed whilst they diagnosed her, which meant sitting with her in my arms for a few hours.  There has to be a better way to do that, which wouldn't be too hard.  After that 3/4 hours they were superb, she had a room with sensory lighting etc and her Mum could stay in with her.   It was first class, the only grumble was that period waiting.

[Ldr]

It is not 100% genuine. The child was on a drip in a chair which, though not ideal, is a perfectly acceptable clinical situation. The childs mother has out him on the floor. A drip needs gravity in general to work not placed on the floor. Also and more importantly infection control would not allow placing of a patient on the floor. In the uncropped photo chair and trolley can be seen

[Herbert Anchovy]

It is not 100% genuine. The child was on a drip in a chair which, though not ideal, is a perfectly acceptable clinical situation. The childs mother has out him on the floor. A drip needs gravity in general to work not placed on the floor. Also and more importantly infection control would not allow placing of a patient on the floor. In the uncropped photo chair and trolley can be seen

How do you know this LDR?

[Ldr]

HA combination of looking at the uncropped photo and reading the mothers own account in the YP. The infection control bit is assuming Leeds would work to the same standard policies of the trust where I work

[SydneyRover]

Where's the tube going that's going up out of shot?

added

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50717606

[Herbert Anchovy]

HA combination of looking at the uncropped photo and reading the mothers own account in the YP. The infection control bit is assuming Leeds would work to the same standard policies of the trust where I work

So you don’t know LDR?

[SydneyRover]

Emergency call?   

[BillyStubbsTears]

There is talk that it's faked but that's easy to say given the current climate, it's also very easy to believe, but more easily IMO to believe that the rumours of it being fake are fake....

What I can believe is the baby having to sleep in a chair for some time.  Last year we were unfortunate enough to have our youngest (who was less than 6 months at the time) contract meningitis.  The service from doctors surgery through to hospital was superb, the only downside was waiting 3/4 hours for a bed whilst they diagnosed her, which meant sitting with her in my arms for a few hours.  There has to be a better way to do that, which wouldn't be too hard.  After that 3/4 hours they were superb, she had a room with sensory lighting etc and her Mum could stay in with her.   It was first class, the only grumble was that period waiting.

Of COURSE there's talk that it's faked. The Tory spin machine has been in hyperdrive on that theme for 24 hours.

This is what happens when we lazily assume EVERYONE is lying. We equate ACTUAL, DEMONSTRABLE lying with "ooh I heard that maybe perhaps, someone suggested that thing I heard that I didn't want to believe might not be true."

[BillyStubbsTears]

On that subject, I assume you saw the consummate lying by the Tories to deflect from the story about NHS underfunding? Piping that lie through Kuenssberg and Peston that a Labour activist punched a Tory worker at the hospital?

You're a smart lad BFYP. I cannot believe that people like you are going to reward this behaviour. It is beyond scary that a political party can behave like this and not be sanctioned by the voters. You KNOW where this leads.

[SydneyRover]

Cameron-may-johnson 

[wing commander]

   Deflect from the Story...??? Isnt deflection exactly what Labour have been trying to do on the NHS this last few weeks?? Desperate to get the headlines away from their frankly chaotic brexit position..They have been drastically pushing the story onto the NHS with there leaked reports that didn't really tell you anything..The Tory's insist the NHS isn't for sale yet that's automatically a fact lie as far as labour are concerned..

  Reports of taxiing labour activists in to follow the health secretary to heckle him on the nhs wherever he goes all week, and now a Labour activists son appears in a photo that doesn't smell right at all and has supposedly been rubbished by staff working there...

And you go on about the great Tory spin machine??????

[SydneyRover]

Only if in your of the opinion the talks with the US were all fluff and the privatisation by stealth isn't really happening WC.

[wing commander]

  I do believe it was Labour who first went down that route Sydney.However I don't believe that even if it was the intention of some trade deals involving the NHS it wasn't to sell it on mass..And that wont happen now regardless...It needs investment yes but managed investment..Some of the money these trusts waste is frankly criminal at times..

 In some ways I hope that picture of that lad isn't false,because if it turns out some left wing labour activist has staged that Photo for political impact then thats a insult to every single Nurse and Doctor in this Country who work so hard on our care, and would signal a new low in Politics

[BillyStubbsTears]

There you go WingCo. You've swallowed it.

"Reports of Labour taxi-ing activists to the hospital."

Lies! From Conservative HQ, repeated by Kuenssberg. Lies. And you swallow them and repeat them!

[Herbert Anchovy]

The Child's family confirmed it happened, the hospital confirmed it happened, a Nurse who works at that hospital has just contacted a radio phone and confirmed that there were no paediatric ICU beds available at the hospital, Boris refused to look at the photo and snatched a reporters phone rather than view the image....and yet....Tory voters are scurrying around in a desperate and cynical attempt to deny it by claiming the Parents/Hospital/Yorkshire Post (take your pick) are lying!

It would be hilarious if it wasn't despicable.

[wing commander]

Alternatively a local Journo has this account

A local Journo appears to be digging deeper..

Confirmed that my source is indeed a nurse from the hospital. Her account: 'Every member of staff' there at the time knows that 1.Yes it was busy. 2. No, the child was not treated on the floor. 3.A bed WAS available. 4.The child was 'placed' on the floor for a photo. Will update.

[wing commander]

Billy how can you prove they are lies??? You are quick to believe one side as I am the other..

[SydneyRover]

WC I will be totally pissed too if some leftwing idiot has done that, in fact I would happily disown anyone that fakes it, I don't like dishonesty, but being left is also a battle because, deep breath-most of the msm is centre or right so I/we always have to (i believe) have to take the high ground.

The NHS won't be sold en-masse, there will be agreements to allow access for US companies to buy in or for drug companies to extend patents etc.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Alternatively a local Journo has this account

A local Journo appears to be digging deeper..

Confirmed that my source is indeed a nurse from the hospital. Her account: 'Every member of staff' there at the time knows that 1.Yes it was busy. 2. No, the child was not treated on the floor. 3.A bed WAS available. 4.The child was 'placed' on the floor for a photo. Will update.

Who’s the journalist WC?