General Election 2019 - 12th December

[Ldr]

That Laura Kunsenberg, or however it’s spelled has been in full spin mode today since the NHS news came out

Or Corbyn could have lied for political gain, I'll believe one thing, you will  believe another

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1209762/election-poll-tracker-2019-latest-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-conservative-labour-brexit/amp&ved=2ahUKEwirqa7c0IrmAhWFs3EKHUxNDFUQiJQBMAB6BAgGEAQ&usg=AOvVaw32ug8_aLM_gJD3tbyANOA6&ampcf=1

I hope you don't think I make shit up!

[Ldr]

No but you have cherry picked for effect, you would make a great spin doctor.

[BillyStubbsTears]

How on earth have I cherry picked? I quoted their headline and the actual facts underpinning it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

The reason I asked who the expert was is that the media regularly have "experts" giving opinions, who are actually from politically motivated organisations.

People from the IEA are regularly on TV giving their opinions. They are an organisation set up to promote right wing economic ideas, and paid for by...well, we don't know because they refuse to publish their list of donors.

Just because someone is put forward as an expert dies not mean they don't have a political line to push.

[Ldr]

How on earth have I cherry picked? I quoted their headline and the actual facts underpinning it.

The focus of the paragraph is an 11 point lead to the Tories, you zoom in on a 1 point increase to their share for effect and an attempt to ridicule the headline. Spin at is finest my friend

[selby]

  Like yourself  and your eternal ramblings you mean.  Are all the facts you plaster all over this forum facts then, because they are from experts from the labour party slant.
   Your grasping at straws Billy. Labour stole the show in the last election, cornering the new media outlets, now they are being used to your disadvantage, because Labour are having to try and make the running this time, and are therefore there to be shot at when making statements, and are no longer the new kids on the block.
   They are being exposed as old men with old communist ideas, that when examined always fall short, the youngsters may get carried along with it, but the middle aged, and the older natural labour supporters have seen it before, and have paid the price of the idealists when they have been hit in the pocket with strikes and unemployment before, and recognise the same things stirring to raise their head again, people pushing them on for causes that cost them in the end run, while them pushing flourish at their expense.
   Admit it it is now a party of the London elite, and are losing the trust of their midlands and northern ex heartlands, areas they did nothing for when in power, lost their trust by being just as culpable of closing their industries and did very little to help the situation. 

[selby]

  If the Tories win this election with Brexit the main reason for an election? with parties saying they will form an alliance against Brexit in parliament.
   If the Tories win with an overall majority, will the remainers at last accept they have lost again?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

No. I was focussing on the headline (which is all that many people will ever see). That said that the Tories had had a boost. Didn't mention the fact that Labour had had a boost twice the size.

That was my point. That the Express is not an impartial news provider. It's propagandising.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

No. I was focussing on the headline (which is all that many people will ever see). That said that the Tories had had a boost. Didn't mention the fact that Labour had had a boost twice the size.

That was my point. That the Express is not an impartial news provider. It's propagandising.

EDIT:

My mistake. The headline said that the Tories were soaring. In fact, if you compare that poll result with the avergae of the previous 5 by the same polling company over the past fortnight, the Tories are unchanged and Labour has risen 2.5%. But as I say, the Express isn't interested in publishing unbiased news, based on objective facts. It is a right wing propaganda rag.

[wilts rover]

   Admit it it is now a party of the London elite, and are losing the trust of their midlands and northern ex heartlands, areas they did nothing for when in power, lost their trust by being just as culpable of closing their industries and did very little to help the situation. 

As opposed to say:

the Brexit Party - corporate vehicle for ex-City of London commodities trader and millionaire public school boy (Dulwich) Nigel Farage and property billionaire ex-public schoolboy Richard Tice (Uppingham)

the Tory Party - A B de P Johnson, multi-millionaire ex-'journalist' and Mayor of London (Eton & Ofxord), Sajid Javid, ex-Managing Director of Deutche Bank (Downend & Exeter) and Jacob Rees-Mogg, founder of Somerset Capital Management (Eton & Oxford)

you reckon they represent the interests of the northern working class better than ex-miner Ian Lavery  or former builder and plumber Jon Trickett do you!!!

[bobjimwilly]

   If the Tories win with an overall majority, will the remainers at last accept they have lost again?

How will remainers have lost the election? This election isn't just about Brexit, it's about everything to do with our lives, from the NHS, education and policing to  economic and foreign policy. The remainers won't have lost; Labour and the opposition parties will have lost, and over the next few years those at the bottom of the ladder will lose even more, whilst those at the top will benefit. The gap between the rich and the poor will be even greater, and we will start to see drug prices rise and the NHS suffer even more. And some of us will not let anyone who voted Tory forget about who they voted in.

[DonnyOsmond]

   If the Tories win with an overall majority, will the remainers at last accept they have lost again?

How will remainers have lost the election? This election isn't just about Brexit, it's about everything to do with our lives, from the NHS, education and policing to  economic and foreign policy. The remainers won't have lost; Labour and the opposition parties will have lost, and over the next few years those at the bottom of the ladder will lose even more, whilst those at the top will benefit. The gap between the rich and the poor will be even greater, and we will start to see drug prices rise and the NHS suffer even more. And some of us will not let anyone who voted Tory forget about who they voted in.

All these Brexiteers want us to crash out too with a no deal. I don't think any Brexiteers has ever been to a country that uses WTO rules. I have recently and items that you take for granted and buy every day/week tend to be miles dearer. That itself won't affect the richest 5% that much, it'll affect the rest of us. It always has been turkey's voting for Christmas.

[BillyStubbsTears]

  If the Tories win this election with Brexit the main reason for an election? with parties saying they will form an alliance against Brexit in parliament.
   If the Tories win with an overall majority, will the remainers at last accept they have lost again?

Selby.

As things currently stand in the polls, 42% are supporting the Tories and 4% the BP. That's 46% supporting parties in favour of Johnson's Brexit.

The other 54% are supporting parties who want Ref2 or revocation of A50.

If it stays like that, will you accept that there is a substantial majority in the country who don't want Johnson's Brexit?

The number of seats the parties get is irrelevant to this discussion.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BST, you know full well those stats do not work, plenty of leave voters wont vote tory and plenty of remainers will. It's a flawed statistic.

[bpoolrover]

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/

[bpoolrover]

Latest you gov poll has tories 148 seats more than labour and this poll predicted 93 percent right on last general election

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Worth noting that has the tories taking don valley but labour keeping don central and north with brexit party nowhere.

[drfchound]

I would be amazed if Labour don’t win Don Valley.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's the one round here that covers the slightly better off areas and doesnt actually need a huge swing. The others are pretty safe labour.

[SydneyRover]

Worth noting that has the tories taking don valley but labour keeping don central and north with brexit party nowhere.

Is this from stats that do or don't work bfyp?

[DonnyOsmond]

Caroline Flint isn't exactly popular in her constituency.

[bpoolrover]

If it is anywhere near right hopefully labour will sort themselves out and make themselves a decent opposition party in the next election, tories have not been good for the last ten years and still would massively increase there advantage

[drfchound]

That is true DO.
Still surprising though if she doesn’t hold the seat.

[SydneyRover]

If it is anywhere near right hopefully labour will sort themselves out and make themselves a decent opposition party in the next election, tories have not been good for the last ten years and still would massively increase there advantage

Whatever you think of them bp they've got to be better than the past 9 years

[drfchound]

If it is anywhere near right hopefully labour will sort themselves out and make themselves a decent opposition party in the next election, tories have not been good for the last ten years and still would massively increase there advantage

Whatever you think of them bp they've got to be better than the past 9 years

Not necessarily true though SR.

[SydneyRover]

If it is anywhere near right hopefully labour will sort themselves out and make themselves a decent opposition party in the next election, tories have not been good for the last ten years and still would massively increase there advantage

Whatever you think of them bp they've got to be better than the past 9 years

Not necessarily true though SR.

 

[bpoolrover]

If it is anywhere near right hopefully labour will sort themselves out and make themselves a decent opposition party in the next election, tories have not been good for the last ten years and still would massively increase there advantage

Whatever you think of them bp they've got to be better than the past 9 years

as I’ve said many times I have no problem with the Labour Party I have issues with corbyn McDonnell and there non brexit stance, and no there is no reason to think it will be any better, most people have broadband and if need dental check ups already get it free, with a decent leader and someone who won’t bow down to the unions it might be different

[DonnyOsmond]

If it is anywhere near right hopefully labour will sort themselves out and make themselves a decent opposition party in the next election, tories have not been good for the last ten years and still would massively increase there advantage

Whatever you think of them bp they've got to be better than the past 9 years

Not necessarily true though SR.

Only one way to find out. The easy thing isn't putting ourselves through another 5 years of the last 9 years.

[Filo]

If it is anywhere near right hopefully labour will sort themselves out and make themselves a decent opposition party in the next election, tories have not been good for the last ten years and still would massively increase there advantage

Whatever you think of them bp they've got to be better than the past 9 years

as I’ve said many times I have no problem with the Labour Party I have issues with corbyn McDonnell and there non brexit stance, and no there is no reason to think it will be any better, most people have broadband and if need dental check ups already get it free, with a decent leader and someone who won’t bow down to the unions it might be different

Why are people so afraid of the Unions, treat workers right and there would be no problems