Last time you...

[SydneyRover]

Negotiations with 'the palace' went for 6 months .............. to come up with the wrong answer

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB.

I couldn't agree more. Going on TV to obfuscate, look very uncomfortable and mumble about stray hands and a temporary inability to sweat wasn't THE most convincing way of drawing a line under this, was it?

[Bentley Bullet]

He did himself no favours doing the interview. The bit I saw looked disastrous. Even if he'd put on a faultless performance of absolutely convincing proportions, though, I'm quite sure he'd have got the same verdict of condemnation from those anti-royalists who would have made up their minds before watching it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Seriously BB. You do need to think about a break.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST.  Why don't you take a little break, read what I wrote properly, and come back and tell me what is untrue about my post?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

1) You are suggesting that I would use an issue like child sexual abuse to push a political agenda.

2) You have time and again ignored my regular criticisms of people on the Left (including Tom Watson this very week).

3) You've gone back into that (frankly, disturbing) obsession of yours with me being some sort of "spokesman" or head of a clique.

4) You are spending more and more time engaging in personal insults and spats, and virtually no time discussing anything substantive.

All those things suggest that you've lost a sense of perspective. I genuinely and honestly think this isn't good for your health.

[Bentley Bullet]

Listen here owd lad. I never mentioned you. If anything I was in agreement with your post prior to mine.

I think it's you who should take a little break, then come back and apologise.

[Donnywolf]

It seems that Andrew knows better than those in his employ

Someone described today that Tabloids Broadsheets and Audio and visual Media have been handed a HUGE Christmas present

What or who possessed him to do that ? I read earlier one of his advisors resigned immediately after he advised Andrew not to do it - and keep his head down instead

It seems Andrew is his own man and declined the advice seemingly (- I dont know him) preferring his own judgement to that of his paid advisors

From the amount of and status of those queueing up today to say this was a huge mistake I guess he was wrong and it may prove to BE wrong at a later date

[Bentley Bullet]

I agree DW. By going on TV he was presenting himself in front of a jury of millions of people who recognise him. I put this into context with the fact that In a normal court of law a juror would have to stand down if they recognised the defendant.

It is with that in mind why I think Prince Andrew was wrong to go on TV, even if he is innocent because the 'jury' would be swayed by their opinion of him before hand.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

I don't know why you do this, but pretty much every time you post on here these days, you turn it into a personal fight. Just stop and reflect. Go and look at your posts over the last few months. That's what I mean about this not being healthy for you.

This is how you got involved this time.

quote author=Bentley Bullet link=topic=274907.msg921760#msg921760 date=1573946995]
So BST, now you've made your guilty decision in your capacity of the Viking Off-Topic Forum Leading Statesman, what shall we do with him?
[/quote]

If you genuinely reckon that wasn't trying to provoke a spat, I'm even more worried for you.

[Bentley Bullet]

So you're telling me that you never provoke a spat with me? you've just proved that you do with your response to my last two posts!

At the very least I don't provoke a spat with you when I agree with you. Can you say that regarding me?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not saying I never do BB. I'm saying these days it's just about the only thing you do.

It's like an attention black hole and it's very boring. It adds nothing to the (often very insightful) discussions in here.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. Let's get one thing straight. You're the one who always wants to talk facts. Today I've had spats with two people. I've also agreed with around the same amount of people. To me, that's about the going rate in a debate. I think that's quite acceptable.

What exactly do you want? I dare say that loads of people have packed this forum in because they couldn't express their views without a backlash from the usual suspects. Do you want to continue with that trend until you all agree and can have a great big love in?

[Filo]

BST. Let's get one thing straight. You're the one who always wants to talk facts. Today I've had spats with two people. I've also agreed with around the same amount of people. To me, that's about the going rate in a debate. I think that's quite acceptable.

What exactly do you want? I dare say that loads of people have packed this forum in because they couldn't express their views without a backlash from the usual suspects. Do you want to continue with that trend until you all agree and can have a great big love in?

I think you need to take ownership of that issue, you must be one of the most argumentative on here

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jesus. I missed this gem.

(Source: BBC website).

He did not regret his friendship with Epstein because of "the opportunities I was given to learn" from him about trade and business.

It's like saying you don't regret being friends with Hannibal Lector because you learned from him how to choose the right beans and wine to go with meat.

As a long standing royal correspondent has said today, the massive take-home from this is that the idea of apologising, showing remorse or showing empathy for the kids that Epstein trafficked for the gratification of the rich and powerful never seems to have entered his head.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. Let's get one thing straight. You're the one who always wants to talk facts. Today I've had spats with two people. I've also agreed with around the same amount of people. To me, that's about the going rate in a debate. I think that's quite acceptable.

What exactly do you want? I dare say that loads of people have packed this forum in because they couldn't express their views without a backlash from the usual suspects. Do you want to continue with that trend until you all agree and can have a great big love in?

I think you need to take ownership of that issue, you must be one of the most argumentative on here

f**king hell! That's actually amazing, coming from you! 

[Glyn_Wigley]

I got the impression that if he ever had to testify in court Andrew would get torn to shreds under proper cross-examination.

[scawsby steve]

Jesus.

Virginia Roberts said that on the night they had sex, Prince Andrew was sweating profusely.

He's responded, saying "Well there's  a slight problem with, with, with, with the sweating because I, I, I ...have... a peculiar m-m-medical condition that means I don't sweat. Or, or I didn't sweat at the time. When was it? YES! I didn't sweat at the time." He then goes on to mumble something about how he now does sweat because of "having done a number of things in the recent past."

An utter car crash. This is supposed to be him setting the record straight.

I wonder who thought it was a good idea for him to do a televised interview? Quietly retiring from public life would have probably been a better option.

Dead right TRB. A lot of the news broadcasts today are suggesting that heads could roll over this, because of him being advised to do the interview, and the briefing, or lack of briefing, that preceded it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're assuming he listened to his advisers.

This from Royal biographer Angela Levin
Royal biographer Angela Levin said she was gripped by the interview but felt it was "ill-judged" to offer insights into his life with Epstein.

"Unfortunately it was a sign of his arrogance," she said. "He has always been arrogant.

"The Queen's motto is don't complain don't explain. I think in her heart she will be extremely embarrassed.

"I know for a fact Prince Andrew does not listen to his advisers."

I saw a documentary about a decade ago which tracked him through typical work days. He was utterly obnoxious.

He bawled out some minion for checking his phone during a meeting. The minion explained that he had a relative seriously ill in hospital and he'd just had his phone buzz so he was checking if there was news. Prince Andrew said "we'll go outside and check it, and then turn it off." Not a word of enquiry about the health of the relative, or apology for giving the man a bollocking. It reeked of privilege, arrogance and disdain for others. As did last night's shambolic performance.

[MachoMadness]

It'd be funny if it wasn't a story involving a horrific child sex trafficking ring. You could see "Prince Andrew forgets how to sweat" as a Day Today headline.

[BobG]

Jesus BB. I think you are pretty much the funniest guy on this forum. You have been for years. You crease me up sometimes. But this?? Just take a look at what you are doing. You've got a rare talent. Make more of it man.

Cheers

BobG

BST. Let's get one thing straight. You're the one who always wants to talk facts. Today I've had spats with two people. I've also agreed with around the same amount of people. To me, that's about the going rate in a debate. I think that's quite acceptable.

What exactly do you want? I dare say that loads of people have packed this forum in because they couldn't express their views without a backlash from the usual suspects. Do you want to continue with that trend until you all agree and can have a great big love in?

I think you need to take ownership of that issue, you must be one of the most argumentative on here

f**king hell! That's actually amazing, coming from you! 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting development in the Epstein case.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51486711

I'm not a mad conspiracy theory freak, but given that Epstein could have had things to discuss to the legal authorities about what the following people got up to at his residences, where child prostitutes were regularly offered to guests:

The President of the USA
The Queen's son
The head of Barclays Bank

the idea that he managed to kill himself while on 24 hour suicide watch does start to strain the bounds of credibility.

[scawsby steve]

Interesting development in the Epstein case.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51486711

I'm not a mad conspiracy theory freak, but given that Epstein could have had things to discuss to the legal authorities about what the following people got up to at his residences, where child prostitutes were regularly offered to guests:

The President of the USA
The Queen's son
The head of Barclays Bank

the idea that he managed to kill himself while on 24 hour suicide watch does start to strain the bounds of credibility.

Utter and total speculation, and nothing else.

I'm surprised that you, a man of facts and reason, should post something based on nothing but guttersnipe gossip.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

Which bit is speculation?

It's an established fact that the people listed were close personal friends of a serial paedophile, and regular visitors to the residences where Epstein had a conveyor belt shipping in under age prostitutes.

It's an established fact that Epstein was on suicide watch.

It's an established fact that three of the CCTV cameras outside his cell malfunctioned on the night of his death, and that the warders who knew he was the highest profile prisoner in the country, and who were supposed to check on him at least every 30 minutes did not check on him for 8 hours.

It's an established fact that he suffered injuries which are far more consistent with assault and strangulation than with hanging.   

Which bit is speculation?

[scawsby steve]

SS.

Which bit is speculation?

It's an established fact that the people listed were close personal friends of a serial paedophile, and regular visitors to the residences where Epstein had a conveyor belt shipping in under age prostitutes.

It's an established fact that Epstein was on suicide watch.

It's an established fact that three of the CCTV cameras outside his cell malfunctioned on the night of his death, and that the warders who knew he was the highest profile prisoner in the country, and who were supposed to check on him at least every 30 minutes did not check on him for 8 hours.

It's an established fact that he suffered injuries which are far more consistent with assault and strangulation than with hanging.   

Which bit is speculation?

The whole lot of it, based on the words you used; "COULD have had things to discuss". Unless there's something wrong with my semantics that's a million miles away from facts.

You've displayed on this forum many times a deep, personal, pathological hatred of Trump, which may or may not be justified; but to link him with child prostitutes based on nothing but speculation, and what you'd LIKE to be true, is quite frankly spurious at best.

[SydneyRover]

You could maybe list a few of trumps good points for balance SS, go for it he's been around for 67 years 

Added: I've made a start for you


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-scandals/474726/

[scawsby steve]

You could maybe list a few of trumps good points for balance SS, go for it he's been around for 67 years 

As expected Sydney, you're completely missing the point. This is nothing whatsoever to do with Trump's good points or bad points. It's to do with suggestions that he and others may have had links to child prostitutes, based on pure speculation.

As regards Trump's presidency, the American people will decide on that in November.

[SydneyRover]

Hey Steve if trump was this really nice bloke with a reputation to match I'd say give the guy a break, innocent till proven otherwise but he's not is he, so the fact that he is listed as being in the company of a convicted pedophile and has admitted sexual assault himself gives me the impressession that in front of a jury he would lose, maybe that's why he keeps paying people off so he doesn't gp to court. There is plenty all the documated and yet this powerful bloke doesn't take any of them to court, the miserable t**t cheats at golf too, odious at best a criminal at worst.

[scawsby steve]

Hey Steve if trump was this really nice bloke with a reputation to match I'd say give the guy a break, innocent till proven otherwise but he's not is he, so the fact that he is listed as being in the company of a convicted pedophile and has admitted sexual assault himself gives me the impressession that in front of a jury he would lose, maybe that's why he keeps paying people off so he doesn't gp to court. There is plenty all the documated and yet this powerful bloke doesn't take any of them to court, the miserable t**t cheats at golf too, odious at best a criminal at worst.

Opinions, speculation, and idle gossip. Would YOU be prepared to state in a newspaper or media outlet that you have evidence of Trump's association with child prostitutes?

No, I didn't think so.

[SydneyRover]

As expected Steve you've missed the point, I don't need to it's all documented in major reliable US newspapers.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/dec/10/rick-reilly-donald-trump-golf-commander-in-cheat-book-interview

This guy has even released a book based on trump being a liar.