Six first team players

[BillyStubbsTears]

It really is p*ss poor! Starting to lose the love for it personally! Gives us no identity.

Aye.

It destroyed me when we got Tony Woodcock on loan.

And Chris Brown.
And Matt Mills.
And Brian Stock.
And Billy Sharp.
And Herbie Kane.
And Malik Wilks.

Bloody shite Bramhall.

As usual, you miss the point. We signed a good number of those on a permanent deal. We won't be signing any of the current loanees, so, at the end of the season, they'll go back, and we are left in the same situation again. And again. And again.

We signed precisely ONE of those with the aim of turning it into a permanent deal.

The other two came about after the player concerned had gone back to his parent club.

Not strictly true.

- Stock was signed on loan with a permanent deal agreed
- Sharp was signed on loan after we had initially tried but failed to buy him. We then signed him at the end of his loan spell.
- Mills exactly as Sharp.

Jonathan

1) Stock. Agreed. That's the one.

2) Sharp. That's the first I've heard that we tried and failed to sign him in the summer of 2009 on a permanent. Not saying it's not true, but I don't recall any discussion of that at the time.

Similarly a year later. His loan spell effectively ended through injury in March 2019 and he went back to Sheff Utd. We all assumed that was the last we were going to see of him in a Donny shirt. There was no expectation of us signing him permanently.

He didn't actually sign for us until 7 July that summer which suggests that was a long way short of being a done deal previously. I also recall the permanent signing coming as quite a (pleasant) surprise to most of us, so if it WAS a long term plan, the club did a superb job of keeping it quiet.

3) Mills. You might recall the chuntering on here after the celebrations at Wembley, when Mills turned his shirt back to front and kept pointing at his name. The general opinion among our fans at the time was that he was parading himself to potentially buyers.


 Again, he didn't sign a permanent deal until 31 July 2008, and again, it came a pleasing news. There is no indication whatsoever that we EXPECTED him to be a permanent signing when we took him on loan.

Which is my point. Circumstances alter cases. In Mills's case, there's not a chance in a million that we would have signed him if we'd not been promoted. In more recent times, if Marosi hadn't done the dying swan thing in extra time at Charlton, I suspect there's a strong chance we would have signed Wilks. Similarly, if we were to get promoted this season, I suspect we'd be in the market for Dieng and Ennis. Possibly John.

What redarmy is doing for some reason, and what you're aiding him in, is retrospectively spinning a narrative around what actually happened (but might well not have done) in past cases, and assuming what will happen in future cases.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It really is p*ss poor! Starting to lose the love for it personally! Gives us no identity.

Aye.

It destroyed me when we got Tony Woodcock on loan.

And Chris Brown.
And Matt Mills.
And Brian Stock.
And Billy Sharp.
And Herbie Kane.
And Malik Wilks.

Bloody shite Bramhall.

As usual, you miss the point. We signed a good number of those on a permanent deal. We won't be signing any of the current loanees, so, at the end of the season, they'll go back, and we are left in the same situation again. And again. And again.

No one has said anything about Bramhall, do you hate him that much to bring him up again

Phew...

[lee.j09]

It really is p*ss poor! Starting to lose the love for it personally! Gives us no identity.

Aye.

It destroyed me when we got Tony Woodcock on loan.

And Chris Brown.
And Matt Mills.
And Brian Stock.
And Billy Sharp.
And Herbie Kane.
And Malik Wilks.

Bloody shite Bramhall.

As usual, you miss the point. We signed a good number of those on a permanent deal. We won't be signing any of the current loanees, so, at the end of the season, they'll go back, and we are left in the same situation again. And again. And again.

We signed precisely ONE of those with the aim of turning it into a permanent deal.

The other two came about after the player concerned had gone back to his parent club.

Did you lose the love of the club when we signed Herbie Kane? Would you if we sign Idah?

If you think our recruitment of players this year has been good enough your deluded!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course it hasn't. But I try to keep a sense of perspective about it. We were left in a shite position by McCann. We've had injury problems since then. These things happen. It seems a bit excessive to jump from that to claiming that you're losing interest in the club.

[Jonathan]

I’m not aiding anyone in anything. I’m merely stating my recollection of how things happened. It was all over Sky Sports News on a Thursday night (I was at the races and even now I recall texts flying everywhere) that we’d lodged a bid for Billy Sharp. It wasn’t concluded ahead of our weekend game (when I also recall we could’ve desperately used him) and then he eventually arrived on loan. Everyone was excited, except for BST who was at pains to point out that Heffernan was better 😉. I liked Heffernan too by the way, but Sharp was the next level up.

Mills was obviously a long term SO’D target after he’d had him at Bournemouth. We signed him on loan first and then permanently.

I’m not saying that the permanent deals were all agreed at the outset, otherwise we’d never have loaned them initially. But they were targets for the longer term, and they turned out to be good investments, that was my point.

[selby]

 To answer the OP. it is better to be able to renew some of the squad than be stuck with very expensive players who fail to get promotion such as a lot of the Championship sides, and such as Sunderland and  Peterborough have on their books, mostly with little or no resale value anywhere near what they paid for them and on in many cases inflated wages.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jonathan.

I don't think we're far apart in our recollections. I suspect the 2009 "bid" for Sharp was a bid for a loan deal. And I agree that O'Driscoll had long-admired Mills. But he wouldn't have got him on a permanent deal if we'd not gone up in 2008.

Regarding Sharp-Heffernan...actually, nah..

[wilts rover]

From my calculations, that's how many first team players we will have contracted currently for next season.

Not to cover old ground as to how bad a situation this is, but I'd be interested as to how many other league clubs are in the same boat.

Well do some research and then you can let us all know.

I remember Blackpool going up through the leagues on the back of loan players and everyone saying what a great idea that was.

[Campsall rover]

The only thing bleak is the negative posting on this forum.
Same old, same old, same old.

Redarmy82 and your followers, you are very sad people.
Sorry, sad, depressing. For crying out loud get a life.

I can come on this forum full of the joys of spring and 20 mins later i can feel like crying.

I can’t find anything else to say except it’s pathetically boring.

[Campsall rover]

To answer the OP. it is better to be able to renew some of the squad than be stuck with very expensive players who fail to get promotion such as a lot of the Championship sides, and such as Sunderland and  Peterborough have on their books, mostly with little or no resale value anywhere near what they paid for them and on in many cases inflated wages.

Brian do you think they have the brains to understand that?
Doesn’t matter what we say. They will just keep on coming up with continuous negative drivel to suit their personal agenda against the Club, Board & Manager.

[Lindy]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

[IDM]

Lose our identity.?

When in recent years have we not had any loanees.?

[Campsall rover]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

In most games this season we have started with 3/4 loan players.
What’s the problem that’s 7/8 of our own.

Are we bottom of the League?  Won 8 D7 L6  2/3 games in hand on everyone except Fleetwood.
Win tomorrow 2 points outside the play offs.

There is absolutely no team spirit in this group is there.
Oh yes i think there might be. Loads of it.

No the problem is some people are only happy when they can have a good old winge. Simple as that. SAD.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

Do you think Charlton fans felt they lost their identity when they used 6 loan signings last season to achieve promotion?

[Filo]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

I don’t see your point, every player is temporary, do we lose our identity when players leave?

[dickos1]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

In most games this season we have started with 3/4 loan players.
What’s the problem that’s 7/8 of our own.

Are we bottom of the League?  Won 8 D7 L6  2/3 games in hand on everyone except Fleetwood.
Win tomorrow 2 points outside the play offs.

There is absolutely no team spirit in this group is there.
Oh yes i think there might be. Loads of it.

No the problem is some people are only happy when they can have a good old winge. Simple as that. SAD.

You do need to calm down at tad. You can’t come on here and accuse people of not having brains just because their opinion differs from yours.
If someone dared to talk to you in the same manner you’d have a meltdown

[IDM]

Please can someone explain what losing our identity means.?

Whether our team is made of old experienced pros who have been at the club for years, or contracted players in their prime like Whiteman, or young lads like Watters and with loanees, they all wear DRFC kit and the DRFC badge.?

[Campsall rover]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

In most games this season we have started with 3/4 loan players.
What’s the problem that’s 7/8 of our own.

Are we bottom of the League?  Won 8 D7 L6  2/3 games in hand on everyone except Fleetwood.
Win tomorrow 2 points outside the play offs.

There is absolutely no team spirit in this group is there.
Oh yes i think there might be. Loads of it.

No the problem is some people are only happy when they can have a good old winge. Simple as that. SAD.

You do need to calm down at tad. You can’t come on here and accuse people of not having brains just because their opinion differs from yours.
If someone dared to talk to you in the same manner you’d have a meltdown

They can say whatever they like. I have got a thick skin. Have to listen to you having a go at me don’t i.

Just a couple of questions. Am i not allowed to have an opinion? Am i only allowed to agree with negative posts?
Yes how many times have i said everyone is allowed an opinion? Of course they don’t have to agree with me.

But there are some on here who just are not able or simply as in the most likely case, don’t want to see anything positive about the Club.

You were 3 years ago one of the most positive posters on this forum and went ballistic about the negative posters on this forum.
Now you have joined their ranks. Why? It’s a real mystery to me you have so much anger & bitterness in your posts. Please tell me why this club is not operating the way it should?

Whose model should we follow. Bury, Bolton, Fleetwood ( yes on long term a slippery path imo. )
Or should we try and build something really solid, something our Grandchildren & Great Grandchildren will be able & proud to follow in 10/20/30/50 years time.

Choice is yours, but if you want the former then go and watch another club who have a long term death wish and not one as ours does which has a long term strategy for progress and success.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think we need a mix. We wont get top quality youngsters like Kane permanently in league 1, just wont happen, hence a few of them deals work well.

Do I think we have too many loanees? Yes and I do think we need more permanent players in and youngsters too.  But let's not forget the situation the club found itself in this year.

[Campsall rover]

I think we need a mix. We wont get top quality youngsters like Kane permanently in league 1, just wont happen, hence a few of them deals work well.

Do I think we have too many loanees? Yes and I do think we need more permanent players in and youngsters too.  But let's not forget the situation the club found itself in this year.

Correct we had little choice.
But it’s not a problem if you get good ones.

Downing, Kane, Wilks were all loanees last season. Didn’t work out too bad did it?

[steve@dcfd]

Why do poster have say go and watch another team to emphasise their point of view. We are all Doncaster Rovers supporters but we are not all Lemmings who follow blindly. There different point of views which have to be accepted.

[dickos1]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

In most games this season we have started with 3/4 loan players.
What’s the problem that’s 7/8 of our own.

Are we bottom of the League?  Won 8 D7 L6  2/3 games in hand on everyone except Fleetwood.
Win tomorrow 2 points outside the play offs.

There is absolutely no team spirit in this group is there.
Oh yes i think there might be. Loads of it.

No the problem is some people are only happy when they can have a good old winge. Simple as that. SAD.

You do need to calm down at tad. You can’t come on here and accuse people of not having brains just because their opinion differs from yours.
If someone dared to talk to you in the same manner you’d have a meltdown

They can say whatever they like. I have got a thick skin. Have to listen to you having a go at me don’t i.

Just a couple of questions. Am i not allowed to have an opinion? Am i only allowed to agree with negative posts?
Yes how many times have i said everyone is allowed an opinion? Of course the don’t have to agree with me.

But there are some on here who just are not able or simply as in the most likely case, don’t want to see anything positive about the Club.

You were 3 years ago one of the most positive posters on this forum and went ballistic about the negative posters on this forum.
Now you have joined their ranks. Why? It’s a real mystery to me you have so much anger & bitterness in your posts. Please tell me why this club is not operating the way it should?

Whose model should we follow. Bury, Bolton, Fleetwood ( yes on long term a slippery path imo. )
Or should we try and build something really solid, something our Grandchildren & Great Grandchildren will be able & proud to follow in 10/20/30/50 years time.

Choice is yours, but if you want the former then go and watch another club who have a long term death wish and not one as ours does which has a long term strategy for progress and success.

I don’t agree about me being negative only the other day I was arguing against people who were moaning about our display against oxford.

But spending money doesn’t automatically mean we will go bust like you keep suggesting. And I’d also point out that making lots of loan signings isn’t something really solid.
A few years ago we had a decent policy signing players like
Wright, marquis, lawlor, mason, whiteman, Andrew, players we can develop but are our own players.
This was an exciting policy that laid great foundations but seems to have stopped now

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think we need a mix. We wont get top quality youngsters like Kane permanently in league 1, just wont happen, hence a few of them deals work well.

Do I think we have too many loanees? Yes and I do think we need more permanent players in and youngsters too.  But let's not forget the situation the club found itself in this year.

I'm sure  most of us tend to think that way, but things have changed with season or half season long loans meaning players can fully integrate into the squad.

In simple terms, I'm sure if we were managers and had the same choices, using the loan system to the max, when you can bring in young players that are of a standard we couldn't otherwise develop ourselves or afford to buy, then I would suggest most of us would take that option.

I don't see how or why the board should be criticised for this when it's the manager who decides which path to follow. It is he who decides who goes, who comes and when.

It just seems convenient for people to criticise the board because they can't reconcile what they hear and see.

[Campsall rover]

Well you need to go back and read all your posts then.
If they are positive then help is required. You have done nothing but be critical about the way the playing side of the club has been run continuously since August.

You are not the same person on this forum that you were 3 years ago or less.

You sound very bitter. Not putting 2 & 2 together but very strange it coincided with the departure of a certain Manager.
Seriously though since that time your whole attitude towards the club has completely changed.

[IDM]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

In most games this season we have started with 3/4 loan players.
What’s the problem that’s 7/8 of our own.

Are we bottom of the League?  Won 8 D7 L6  2/3 games in hand on everyone except Fleetwood.
Win tomorrow 2 points outside the play offs.

There is absolutely no team spirit in this group is there.
Oh yes i think there might be. Loads of it.

No the problem is some people are only happy when they can have a good old winge. Simple as that. SAD.

You do need to calm down at tad. You can’t come on here and accuse people of not having brains just because their opinion differs from yours.
If someone dared to talk to you in the same manner you’d have a meltdown

They can say whatever they like. I have got a thick skin. Have to listen to you having a go at me don’t i.

Just a couple of questions. Am i not allowed to have an opinion? Am i only allowed to agree with negative posts?
Yes how many times have i said everyone is allowed an opinion? Of course the don’t have to agree with me.

But there are some on here who just are not able or simply as in the most likely case, don’t want to see anything positive about the Club.

You were 3 years ago one of the most positive posters on this forum and went ballistic about the negative posters on this forum.
Now you have joined their ranks. Why? It’s a real mystery to me you have so much anger & bitterness in your posts. Please tell me why this club is not operating the way it should?

Whose model should we follow. Bury, Bolton, Fleetwood ( yes on long term a slippery path imo. )
Or should we try and build something really solid, something our Grandchildren & Great Grandchildren will be able & proud to follow in 10/20/30/50 years time.

Choice is yours, but if you want the former then go and watch another club who have a long term death wish and not one as ours does which has a long term strategy for progress and success.

I don’t agree about me being negative only the other day I was arguing against people who were moaning about our display against oxford.

But spending money doesn’t automatically mean we will go bust like you keep suggesting. And I’d also point out that making lots of loan signings isn’t something really solid.
A few years ago we had a decent policy signing players like
Wright, marquis, lawlor, mason, whiteman, Andrew, players we can develop but are our own players.
This was an exciting policy that laid great foundations but seems to have stopped now

Not sure the signing policy has changed or stopped, just hasn’t been as successful as we may have liked.?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Hardly surprising really when we've had three different managers at the helm.

[Spud]

To answer the OP. it is better to be able to renew some of the squad than be stuck with very expensive players who fail to get promotion such as a lot of the Championship sides, and such as Sunderland and  Peterborough have on their books, mostly with little or no resale value anywhere near what they paid for them and on in many cases inflated wages.

Agreed, &, as I've alluded to on another thread, I wonder which posters were going mad that Luton had gazumped us on the Daniel's signing....
I don't see a problem signing loans for 6 or 12 months to complement the permanent, seems shrewd business to me at our level.

[redarmy82]

If you’re happy with this then fine but for me I feel we lose our identity going down this route. Obviously we take on some loan players but there has to be a balance or it ceases to be your team.

In most games this season we have started with 3/4 loan players.
What’s the problem that’s 7/8 of our own.

Are we bottom of the League?  Won 8 D7 L6  2/3 games in hand on everyone except Fleetwood.
Win tomorrow 2 points outside the play offs.

There is absolutely no team spirit in this group is there.
Oh yes i think there might be. Loads of it.

No the problem is some people are only happy when they can have a good old winge. Simple as that. SAD.

You do need to calm down at tad. You can’t come on here and accuse people of not having brains just because their opinion differs from yours.
If someone dared to talk to you in the same manner you’d have a meltdown

They can say whatever they like. I have got a thick skin. Have to listen to you having a go at me don’t i.

Just a couple of questions. Am i not allowed to have an opinion? Am i only allowed to agree with negative posts?
Yes how many times have i said everyone is allowed an opinion? Of course the don’t have to agree with me.

But there are some on here who just are not able or simply as in the most likely case, don’t want to see anything positive about the Club.

You were 3 years ago one of the most positive posters on this forum and went ballistic about the negative posters on this forum.
Now you have joined their ranks. Why? It’s a real mystery to me you have so much anger & bitterness in your posts. Please tell me why this club is not operating the way it should?

Whose model should we follow. Bury, Bolton, Fleetwood ( yes on long term a slippery path imo. )
Or should we try and build something really solid, something our Grandchildren & Great Grandchildren will be able & proud to follow in 10/20/30/50 years time.

Choice is yours, but if you want the former then go and watch another club who have a long term death wish and not one as ours does which has a long term strategy for progress and success.

Again, how does signing our own players rather than loans mean we will end up like Bury or Bolton. You say it all the time. Why would it happen?

[Jonathan]

I don’t think anyone was going mad that Luton had gazumped us to Daniels. It was more of a head in the hands and laugh moment. We’d spent all the time waiting to fill places in the squad and get a striker over the line. Then finally on deadline day we failed with the striker search, cancelled Crawford’s contract, and right at the eleventh hour turned the signing of a free agent defender into a loan! It summed up the summer window and if you didn’t laugh you’d cry.

Look, we’re not in a disastrous predicament. We’re actually handily placed in the table, especially if you consider the upheaval. We have a good eleven which is a strong core to build from. But very obviously we need reinforcements and a larger base of players to move forward with. The sky isn’t falling in, but we’re football fans of course we want the team to get stronger and do as well as it can. We have a chance this season if we strengthen in this window.

[Lesonthewest]

Why do poster have say go and watch another team to emphasise their point of view. We are all Doncaster Rovers supporters but we are not all Lemmings who follow blindly. There different point of views which have to be accepted.

Exactly right, there is having your opinion & posters disagreeing with that opinion & having their say & debating. Then there are others that tell you what to do because they don't agree with your opinion. Sad really.