Darren Moore

[DonnyBazR0ver]

That's not an unreasonable reflection of what happened at the time from Dickov. Spin and appeasing fans is all part of the job as he acknowledges.

We always have to understand that whatever the budget is, the manager's job is to utilise it to the best of his ability. He shouldn't be going to the board every 5 minutes and asking for more. That said, it's not easy for any manager at any club it's an all consuming job.

He confirmed there that the wage bill had got out of hand and it had to be cut. JR knew that, all 3 of them knew that. When JR resigns then that leaves a hole to be filled and that doesn't happen by magic or by putting the club at risk with taking even more risks.

To make up for the loss of income the club had to look at other income streams and Club Doncaster has made up for that in some way and is a sound way of generating income and turnover we wouldn't otherwise get. There are other community aspects of Club Dincaster, the foundation and educational side that largely goes unnoticed.

Back to the concept of top 6 budget, something I've always been uncomfortable with as it's ambiguous and could be misinterpreted.

Whatever mechanism the owners have set up to fund the club is ok by me as you need some serious wealth to generate in excess of £1m a year each, to give freely to the club and underwrite any additional losses on top of that.

The club, just like other clubs and in other industries, will always try to put positive spin on things for obvious reasons and most folk understand that and accept that because what we see for what we pay on a Saturday afternoon is acceptable. I'm enjoying the football just as much this season as I did the last, the season before, when we were in the Championship and when we were in the Conference. It's all relative.

Until some other ’investor’ comes along who wants to put more money in, things are not going to change much anytime soon.

The choice is ours whether to buy our tickets. I for one still think I'm getting good value for money.

that's a fair post. I would say though that what the club say their approach is does not follow on in terms of actions leading to becoming a sustainable model. Managers leaving apart, i can see no evidence over the last three years where the footballing side has been made more sustainable.

They have said they need to look at putting out longer contracts for their managers rather than the rolling contract, no sign of that yet for the amazing job DM is doing with the limited resources he has etc etc

They addressed that at The Meet The Owners when someone asked about longer contracts for the manager. The bottom line is, no length of contract will stop a manager leaving if he wants to, and shorter contracts mean we can dismiss without paying as much compensation, so a rolling contract suits both parties.

[dickos1]

DBR that last line is a huge understatement.

There are many fans across the country who will look at us with considerable envy at how well run a club we are.

Of course
Don’t doubt that for a second, there’s some very badly run clubs.
By the same token though there’s clubs that we can aspire to,
Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley, Wigan etc

[BigH]

What many on here, and perhaps some of our younger contributors, would do well to remember is that DM played for us in the Richardson era. If anyone knows what sh*t looks like at DRFC then its Darren Moore.

I remember DM being one of the few shining lights as the club got pulled apart. His loyalty to the cause at that time was an absolute measure of the man's integrity until even he knew the game was up. And then he became the piece of family silver that was sold to line Richardson's pockets in the run up to that 97-98 season when insanity kicked in.

Remember that the next time you mouth off about the Board not caring or DM not being given enough. We don't know we're born!

[graingrover]

We have been made more sustainable by the revamp of the U23 set up and by the appointment of Darren Moore.

[Chris Black come back]

DBR that last line is a huge understatement.

There are many fans across the country who will look at us with considerable envy at how well run a club we are.

Of course
Don’t doubt that for a second, there’s some very badly run clubs.
By the same token though there’s clubs that we can aspire to,
Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley, Wigan etc

They are mainly unrealistic aspirations. Certainly Bournemouth and Wigan have in recent history been entirely propped up by massive owner subsidy on a colossal scale. Brentford owner has an odd model that has for many years had salaries running way over income and demanding 100m plus of his investment. Burnley I don’t know.

We can aspire to be Barnsley or Rotherham.

[baggie192]

How exactly is the recruitment process 'shambolic'? Is it just because the club keep their cards close to their chest instead of telling you everything?

That how it should be, it's January things won't start to move, for teams outside the prem top 6 until towards end anyway

[dickos1]

DBR that last line is a huge understatement.

There are many fans across the country who will look at us with considerable envy at how well run a club we are.

Of course
Don’t doubt that for a second, there’s some very badly run clubs.
By the same token though there’s clubs that we can aspire to,
Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley, Wigan etc

They are mainly unrealistic aspirations. Certainly Bournemouth and Wigan have in recent history been entirely propped up by massive owner subsidy on a colossal scale. Brentford owner has an odd model that has for many years had salaries running way over income and demanding 100m plus of his investment. Burnley I don’t know.

We can aspire to be Barnsley or Rotherham.

Of course Bournemouth and Wigan have rich owners, so do we.
And they also have to abide by FFP.

Brentford though I disagree, they have a great recruitment policy and they turn relatively cheap signings into big money sales on a regular basis and still mantain progression each season

[Chris Black come back]

You are again not reading statements properly.

I said there was massive owner subsidy in Bournemouth and Wigan in their recent history. I made no reference to how rich the owners were. Dave Whelan when he was subsidising them and the Russian guy at Bournemouth have put in colossal sums. Our owners might have that cash or not, but their very welcome subsidy is nowhere near the massive amounts those two guys put in.

The Brentford owner has invested over £110m into Brentford. As I said, there is a certain model there, but £110m owner subsidy has helped make that work.

Our owners have not, will not and should not be subsiding the club to these colossal sums. Their £1.5-2m a season is sufficient.

[i_ateallthepies]

Absolutely spot-on CBcb

[dickos1]

Brentford certainly wouldn't be allowed to have 110 million invested by their owner they would be breaking the ffp rules and as far as I know they haven’t been sanctioned for this.

What I do know is Brentford over the last 2/3 years have recouped around 90 million quid from player sales and over the same period spent around a 3rd of that.

Therefore as I said earlier their recruitment is outstanding, they’re still at the top end of the championship and are still finding players cheap and selling them on for fortunes.
Brentford are definitely a club we can aspire to

[Campsall rover]

Got ourselves a great manager but looking at his comments today looks like he's starting to become frustrated with whats going on behind the scenes. Fergie walked out, as did McCann, and if we're not careful so will Moore.

It's as clear as day now that what we were fed by Baldwin about top 6 being the target and having one of the best budgets in the league is total codswallop. 

We lost all our highest earners, got £2m for JM and got to the 5th round of the cup and Play Offs... where has that money gone??

We've signed conference quality players to replace Marquis and seem to only be interested in loan deals. Nothing wrong with loans but there is when it's seemingly the only type of signing we want to make.

Summer recruitment was bad enough, this month was the biggest transfer window I can remember (what a chance to go for promotion, poor league) and we're hearing from the manager that if we don't sign anyone he'll be frustrated, like it actually could happen!! Not to mention we've already lost 4 players! Absolutely unbelievable.

If we had won today would you have posted this?

[DonnyOsmond]

Brentford certainly wouldn't be allowed to have 110 million invested by their owner they would be breaking the ffp rules and as far as I know they haven’t been sanctioned for this.

What I do know is Brentford over the last 2/3 years have recouped around 90 million quid from player sales and over the same period spent around a 3rd of that.

Therefore as I said earlier their recruitment is outstanding, they’re still at the top end of the championship and are still finding players cheap and selling them on for fortunes.
Brentford are definitely a club we can aspire to

Yeah they use data analytics to sign players.

[dickos1]

Yes they follow the moneyball model
 if you look at the money they’ve received over the last 2/3 years it’s unbelievable for a club of that stature.
And now they’re spending a small percentage of that money but beforehand they were never big spenders and even now they’re only spending around a 3rd of their income

[Chris Black come back]

Brentford certainly wouldn't be allowed to have 110 million invested by their owner they would be breaking the ffp rules and as far as I know they haven’t been sanctioned for this.

What I do know is Brentford over the last 2/3 years have recouped around 90 million quid from player sales and over the same period spent around a 3rd of that.

Therefore as I said earlier their recruitment is outstanding, they’re still at the top end of the championship and are still finding players cheap and selling them on for fortunes.
Brentford are definitely a club we can aspire to

Again, I am giving you facts here. You need to understand the difference between facts and your own views and opinions.

Financial Football News Review 2019 of Championship clubs at end of last season 2018/19 (published May 2019) quote: “Debt levels hence increased from £59.7m to £71.0m (19%) after these new loans, which took Matthew Benham’s investment in the club to £113.9m”.

You know the Father Ted episode with Dougal and the plastic toy cow? It is small because it is far away and large because it is closer to you?

Well, a fact is “something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information“. This is different to your own view, that is something you may well genuinely and sincerely believe, but is not necessarily a fact and not necessarily (seemingly rarely if ever) even related to fact.

[pib]

I think the frustration is, we are constantly told we have a play off budget, but in the eyes of most, the quality of our team doesn’t match up to that. Disclaimer: This is an opinion.

I believe at the moment DM is overachieving with what he has at his disposal. Most of our first XI are decent, but there are very few options beyond that to change a tight game, as demonstrated today. That’s the difference between an OK team and a good team.

I would also question the club’s transfer policy (if there is one). It all seems to rely too heavily on the Manager, and there is a worrying tendency to believe that loans and quick fixes are the answer. To be honest (and I’ll be surprised if I’m alone) I’m sick of seeing the team built around loans. If they’re any good they will only go and sign for a higher/richer club when their loan is finished (a la Wilks, Kane, Downing), and if they’re no good we won’t want to keep them anyway. Is it beyond the wit of a bunch of very smart and savvy business people to see that we can turn a good profit on good players (such as Marquis) and then go on and find the next good player we can sign on a permanent and develop? There doesn’t seem to be that kind of succession planning in place.

And before it’s said - Idah on an 18 month loan isn’t a long term solution either. At the end of it, he’s still not our player to sell or keep hold of.

[DonnyOsmond]

I think the frustration is, we are constantly told we have a play off budget, but in the eyes of most, the quality of our team doesn’t match up to that. Disclaimer: This is an opinion.

I believe at the moment DM is overachieving with what he has at his disposal. Most of our first XI are decent, but there are very few options beyond that to change a tight game, as demonstrated today. That’s the difference between an OK team and a good team.

I would also question the club’s transfer policy (if there is one). It all seems to rely too heavily on the Manager, and there is a worrying tendency to believe that loans and quick fixes are the answer. To be honest (and I’ll be surprised if I’m alone) I’m sick of seeing the team built around loans. If they’re any good they will only go and sign for a higher/richer club when their loan is finished (a la Wilks, Kane, Downing), and if they’re no good we won’t want to keep them anyway. Is it beyond the wit of a bunch of very smart and savvy business people to see that we can turn a good profit on good players (such as Marquis) and then go on and find the next good player we can sign on a permanent and develop? There doesn’t seem to be that kind of succession planning in place.

And before it’s said - Idah on an 18 month loan isn’t a long term solution either. At the end of it, he’s still not our player to sell or keep hold of.

We could have a top 6 budget and a poor squad though. Moore might have quite a big chunk left to spend this month.

[dickos1]

the investment as I’m sure you’re aware will include the money he spent purchasing the club.
Look at the accounts they lost less than 2 million last year, aren't our owners making up bigger deficits than this every year?

People moan about folk on this forum but your manner and the way you talk to people is more than a little embarrassing.
There’s not many posts at all made by you which don’t come across as someone attempting to act clever, I can read your posts and know straight away it was written by you without looking at the author.
Usually a person attempting to talk down to people all smarmy, clever, have many issues.

I only hope you can sort these out

[pib]

I think the frustration is, we are constantly told we have a play off budget, but in the eyes of most, the quality of our team doesn’t match up to that. Disclaimer: This is an opinion.

I believe at the moment DM is overachieving with what he has at his disposal. Most of our first XI are decent, but there are very few options beyond that to change a tight game, as demonstrated today. That’s the difference between an OK team and a good team.

I would also question the club’s transfer policy (if there is one). It all seems to rely too heavily on the Manager, and there is a worrying tendency to believe that loans and quick fixes are the answer. To be honest (and I’ll be surprised if I’m alone) I’m sick of seeing the team built around loans. If they’re any good they will only go and sign for a higher/richer club when their loan is finished (a la Wilks, Kane, Downing), and if they’re no good we won’t want to keep them anyway. Is it beyond the wit of a bunch of very smart and savvy business people to see that we can turn a good profit on good players (such as Marquis) and then go on and find the next good player we can sign on a permanent and develop? There doesn’t seem to be that kind of succession planning in place.

And before it’s said - Idah on an 18 month loan isn’t a long term solution either. At the end of it, he’s still not our player to sell or keep hold of.

We could have a top 6 budget and a poor squad though. Moore might have quite a big chunk left to spend this month.

He may well do. Will he do so or not do we think?

The current line we are told (which I have no reason to disbelieve) is that he is biding his time and trying to find the right players - but how long do you wait? Surely having your 2nd or 3rd choice is better than having nobody (or Kwame Thomas)?

If we go into the next pre-season with 8 contracted players, will we still “bide our time” and wait for “the right ones”? Or will a sense of urgency kick in that we actually need some bodies through the door?

That’s how I feel about it at the moment. L1 is wide open with no real outstanding looking teams, a play-off place is surely there for the taking. It’s a great opportunity, but do we want to be decisive and try to grasp it, or not?

[Chris Black come back]

the investment as I’m sure you’re aware will include the money he spent purchasing the club.
Look at the accounts they lost less than 2 million last year, aren't our owners making up bigger deficits than this every year?

People moan about folk on this forum but your manner and the way you talk to people is more than a little embarrassing.
There’s not many posts at all made by you which don’t come across as someone attempting to act clever, I can read your posts and know straight away it was written by you without looking at the author.
Usually a person attempting to talk down to people all smarmy, clever, have many issues.

I only hope you can sort these out

Ignoring the ad hominem attack - which on reflection in the morning you will probably be embarrassed about - perhaps think whether you might want to take up a different hobby or pastime during the transfer windows? Last window there was a meltdown and it does appear that you are heading in the same direction. Whether the club does or does not sign players that you deem appropriate, is not the end of the world and certainly nothing to get so personally invested that you lose control of your emotions.

We have a great club going places! (up rather than down, into League Two).

[dickos1]

You’ve just proven what I said.
You don’t seem to be able to talk normally to people.

Our discussion had nothing to do with missing out on signings, the forum is awash with people far more intelligent than me who state we need new faces yet you never seem to take them to task.

Back to our discussion, you said Brentford are reliant on their owner, I’ve shown you that they’ve received almost 90 million from player sales and spent a 3rd of that.
So they aren’t reliant on him at all they’re progressing using the funds they’ve received from outstanding player recruitment

[Chris Black come back]

Final try. I didn’t say Brentford are reliant on their owner. That is just not a statement I have made.

What I did say is that the owner has invested £110m into the club (which you said Brentford would not be allowed to have this occur - but it is factually correct that the owner has invested that sum (in fact more) as I said). If the model was self-sustaining I doubt very much the owner would have had to have invested such a colossal sum.

What is also true is that the club debt has just about doubled over the last four seasons and they have turned a loss every season while he and his model has been in place.

Someone has to finance this club to a very significant sum even though they do (as I said) have an odd model which turns decent transfer business in recent seasons.

[dickos1]

How can it not be self sustaining?
They’ve recouped 90 million in transfer sales over the last 3 years and spent less than 30 million.

Where is this 60 million going?

[Filo]

I wonder if DM’s demise at WBA was down to being indecisive or stubborn?

[baggie192]

I wonder if DM’s demise at WBA was down to being indecisive or stubborn?

Stubborn in his Loyalty I would say. I've Explained before. Up unti Christmas 2018 he had no No. 2 He chose Graeme Jones who was Belguim Assistant Coach. We spent a shedload buying him out. Anyway, although Moore liked him, The players and the backroom staff didn't. When Moore was on his own, we played a decent style and won.  When Jones came the style changed as he got control and we lost a lot. Towards the end of February It came to light he was making unsanctioned contact to Luton to become their manager. After an investigation it seems he had used us to buy himself out of the Belguim contract so he wouldn't lose money while getting a No.1 job at a lower championship club for experience. He was fired quickly. Rumour has it when this happened Moore said he goes I go. This would explain why Moore was fired, when we in such a high position 

[i_ateallthepies]

Having listened to DM's interview yesterday I think he's given all the information we need to understand the recruitment strategy.  He want to construct a cohesive group of quality players and knows it takes a couple of seasons minimum to do it (SO'Ds success didn't happen overnight did it? and he was given a better hand to start with than DM was).

Given the state of the squad as it stands now, my view is that no matter what strengthening might be done in this window, promotion this season would require too much change to the squad in the summer for us to have a realistic chance of competing in the Championship next season.  That is why (I believe) DM is right not to go off half-cocked signing 'plan B' players and if that is the case I am ok with that.
I can only suppose he isn't unduly concerned at the prospect of another raft of injuries like the one we have already suffered putting us in danger of going sliding down the table.

Nevertheless, to not make a start on the rebuild in this window would in my view be an opportunity missed and only extend the time his project is going to take.  There is only so much the budget will stand in any given season and unless he's had assurances that unspent budget this season would be carried over then we need to get things moving.

[tyke1962]

The Brentford model and my own clubs for that matter although we aren't as far down the road as they are make for an interesting debate .

Personally speaking I find it massively frustrating and Brentford have taken a few seasons to get to where they are .

You basically after to accept that you will lose your most talented players every transfer window .

No ifs no buts the right offer comes in and they are gone and that's hard to accept at times .

Brentford are at the stage where they can sell their 29 goal striker to Brighton for £20m and go out and buy two top quality championship centre backs in Pontus Janssen and Ethan Pinnock for a combined £10m .

You need some good championship seasons behind you before you can attract that calibre of player even if you have the money .

Something we discovered last summer as a newly promoted club .

We raised £9m through the sales of Pinnock , Lindsay and Kieffer Moore and placed bids of £2.1m for a young midfield star at Motherwell and £2.7m for a striker at Dynamo Dresden .

They didn't want to know because our brand isn't strong enough at championship level , this is a massive problem even if you have the wonga .

So the reality is it isn't that easy and we had to focus on more realistic targets which were more gambles than we'd have liked them to be at this level .

All plans contain flaws for clubs of our size looking to sustain championship football .

I also feel that Brentford as a London club also enjoy a location advantage something we don't consider up here in South Yorkshire .

[Cameron Rowe]

Darren Moore was In Crown Hotel in Bawtry could mean nothing but could mean he's meeting players or the board.

[dickos1]

Might be where he’s currently living

[drfchound]

.....or maybe just having a nice meal out.

[Alan Southstand]

He’ll probably be getting indigestion, then.