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As I've said elsewhere. We HAVE to have something like this to get us out of the crisis.But this just shows you can't divorce this from politics. Many people will choose not to use it because they don't trust the Govt when it says it won't compromise their personal data.
It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
Quote from: Copps is Magic on May 05, 2020, 05:20:35 pmIt does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into. If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
So, when this app is up and running will you be downloading it, or is anyone thinking its a step too far?
Quote from: silent majority on May 05, 2020, 01:45:49 pmSo, when this app is up and running will you be downloading it, or is anyone thinking its a step too far?There are still loads of people who don’t have a smart phone, my wife is one.Her phone is so primitive that it runs on gas.I saw a lady on the news on the IOW this morning saying the same thing.Even if they want to be included.....they can’t.I’m not sure why anyone would object to providing part of a postcode to anyone.Maybe if Mr Starmer had thought of setting this APP up then it would be deemed to be ok.
Quote from: silent majority on May 05, 2020, 05:25:28 pmQuote from: Copps is Magic on May 05, 2020, 05:20:35 pmIt does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into. If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.SM.NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised. I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 05, 2020, 06:09:49 pmQuote from: silent majority on May 05, 2020, 05:25:28 pmQuote from: Copps is Magic on May 05, 2020, 05:20:35 pmIt does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into. If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.SM.NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised. I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.I get your point BST, however, anyone who has any map app on their phone, I'm pretty sure data is collected the same way.This is where they are getting all the traffic data from.I could be wrong, but the likes of Google, Facebook etc use your data in far more intrusive ways than this app will, however people still use them.
SMI'm politicising nothing here. I haven't given my opinion. I'm suggesting what I suspect many other people are going to say. And I suspect the app will get not remotely close to the 80% take up it is reported as needing. Which will be a tragedy.
Quote from: redarmy82 on May 05, 2020, 06:40:24 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 05, 2020, 06:09:49 pmQuote from: silent majority on May 05, 2020, 05:25:28 pmQuote from: Copps is Magic on May 05, 2020, 05:20:35 pmIt does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into. If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.SM.NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised. I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.I get your point BST, however, anyone who has any map app on their phone, I'm pretty sure data is collected the same way.This is where they are getting all the traffic data from.I could be wrong, but the likes of Google, Facebook etc use your data in far more intrusive ways than this app will, however people still use them.That's exactly right. Which is why the NHS have opted for a different strategy to that proposed by Google and Facebook, those companies store much more than anyone realise and yet I fail to see anybody protesting.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 05, 2020, 01:50:24 pmAs I've said elsewhere. We HAVE to have something like this to get us out of the crisis.But this just shows you can't divorce this from politics. Many people will choose not to use it because they don't trust the Govt when it says it won't compromise their personal data. I can't read the other thread on the corona virus because there's just too many people seemingly hell bent on criticising the government at every possible opportunity.
He also said the app will iterate — with future versions potentially asking users to share location data. So while the NHSX has maintained that only pseudonymized data will be collected and held centrally — where it could be used for public health “research” purposes — there remains a possibility that data could be linked to individual identities, such as if different pieces of data are combined by state agencies and/or if the centralized store of data is hacked and/or improperly accessed.Privacy experts have also warned of the risk of ‘mission creep’ down the tracing line. And Gould admitted under committee questioning that once data has been uploaded there will be no way for app users to ask for it to be deleted.
"He was also unable to answer whether employers would be able to gain access to the data under the auspices of ensuring “the health of their employees”. Gould was unable to immediately rule this out."
Quote from: silent majority on May 05, 2020, 05:21:53 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 05, 2020, 01:50:24 pmAs I've said elsewhere. We HAVE to have something like this to get us out of the crisis.But this just shows you can't divorce this from politics. Many people will choose not to use it because they don't trust the Govt when it says it won't compromise their personal data. I can't read the other thread on the corona virus because there's just too many people seemingly hell bent on criticising the government at every possible opportunity. The irony.That statement has contradicted the whole point of you opening a new thread about keeping politics out of a corona virus debate.
If it was use the app or stay in your house what would people do?
Strangely I am not finding the actual lockdown as hard as I thought I would. Really not missing football. Enjoying getting out for a walk every day and have found so many great walks from home that I didn’t know existed. I’ve done things I never did.....done lots of baking, cut my partner’s hair and pretty well! Growing lots of veggies and even going to have a go at making some face masks just in case.It’s also helped me in terms of losing my Mum (nearly 2 years ago). I was still very emotional about it but now I am just so thankful she isn’t here whilst all this is happening.
those over 60 and with vulnerable health conditions will not benefit from the app immediately as they will still have to isolate, they will only benefit later when hopefully the virus has receded, unless it can show when your in close proximity to a tory voter
Apart from football, what one thing are you missing the most?Of course there are other sports which I miss just as much and normally defines my week, i.e. Sunday afternoon watching formula 1, but the thing I miss the most is not seeing the grandkids.