US Election

[BillyStubbsTears]

And again.

Trump has just said at his press conference that Pennsylvania has allowed votes to be placed "3 days after the election and...uh...much longer than that."

The election was still in progress 2 days ago.

[MachoMadness]

Holy shit, I'm watching a NBC stream and Trump is holding a press conference. Every single Alex Jones-tier conspiracy theory is spilling out of his mouth. If there's a far-right wingnut theory about the election that you've heard, he's banging on about it. He is absolutely terrified.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep MM. This is the start of the coup attempt.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is what happens when people blithely say "all politicians are as bad as each other ". It normalised the idea that anyone can make any unfounded accusation and it be accepted. All it needed was for a real psychopathic liar to roll up and take advantage. It's playing out now. Let's see if democracy is really strong enough to face it down.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Good God! It looks like Biden has swung Georgia! He's 3000 votes behind with 19,000 left to count. And he's been winning 75/25 on the most recent counts.

 And Trump is even accusing that most Republican of states of cheating to let Biden win.

[MachoMadness]

I wonder if the GOP will finally develop a spine and stand up to him. They will probably think they still have the senate - barring a shock in the Georgia run-off - and are a decent midterm away from taking back the House. Do they really want to be tarred with all this shite? Or is the lure of being the Trump Party, undoubtedly a brand that gets them votes, too strong?

Fair play to the majority of US news stations who simply refused to broadcast that Trump speech after he started claiming victory, as well. But sadly the people he wants to hear it, will have heard it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM
McConnell is key here. He's got everything he wanted from Trump. He's got a 6-3 Supreme Court. He's got 400 conservative justices on lower courts. He said in this theme just last week (and it was breathtakingly brazen) "we may lose the Presidency but they can't take this change away from us."

I suspect McConnell is letting Trump light the fire under the Republican base. Then he'll knife him and look to use that fire to turbocharge another far right populist in 2024, after he's spent the next 4 years using the Senate to block every Biden policy.

That's the optimistic scenario.

The pessimistic one is that the entire Republican party goes all in on Trump's attempted coup, and the Supreme Court approves the legal challenges.

If that happens, God help us, because it truly is the start of a total breakdown.

[MachoMadness]

McConnell doing what's best for McConnell isn't in doubt, BST. As you say he already has the Court set up for - in theory - decades. However, the dilemma he has is;

If he knifes Trump, what will that do to the Republican base?
If he stands by Trump as he tries to burn the country down, what will that do to swing voters?

He has to be careful, because if Trump's antics start to bleed into the Georgia senate race which looks certain to go to a run-off, then he may well lose the Senate. That could open the door to the Dems implementing Supreme Court reform, whether that's packing the court, term limits, or something else. I guarantee you he's frantically trying to come up with an answer to that dilemma before the election is called.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Good call about the Georgia Senate seat run off. I hadn't processed that one.

This would be fascinating to watch as a neutral. If the future of the planet wasn't on the line.

[Donnywolf]

I have just seen what Trump has said again overnight - and having had 36 hours to think about it a 7 year old would have made a better job of it
"If they count the legal Vote I easily win - if they count the illegal votes they CAN try to steal the Election from me"

What an odious horrible playground bully of a man he is (or appears to be to me) -  I cant win so Im taking my ball home . He is one of theose people who you (well at least me) desperately WANT the opposite of what they want to happen.

His ramblings overnight were just described as the rantings you would expect of someone in a Third world country but (imo) it is so ironic in that the USA sends observers to watch such places and yet here one of the protagonists is calling the Election " a corrupt democratic machine"

I really hope they dump Trump because I for one could not bear it if he wins because you somehow know he will then say "the result was never in doubt - I knew that - we knew that and in fact I said so BUT I knew there were people and organisations desperate to keep me from getting the second Term I deserve and you agree I deserve and so I had to defend your right not to have the Election stolen JUST because they wanted that"

I am sure he will couch it better that I could but I didnt get 36 Hours to write his speech (if indeed anyone actually does write that stuff)

Seriously what does he expect though? Virus was rampant so millions swamp the Mail (which he wanted to stop weeks ago before they even got dropped in the Post Boxes dont forget) BECAUSE he knew Democrats were voting in their millions that way because they "feared" catching the Virus

He failed to get postal voting "outlawed" so then developed the "stealing the Election" routine. BUT all those votes were still sat there waiting to be counted but in some States (dont forget they are Countries not Counties) they have totally different Laws to others and some like Pennsylvania cannot by law be counted until the walk in Votes cast have been counted (and it has always been that way)

So put simply - in Pennsylvania for instance Trump supporters walk up and place their votes. Trump has a lead sometimes a big lead as they are counted but then when they start on the Mailed in votes largely from Urban Biden supporters the gap starts to narrow and eventually because some of these Votes are going 90% to 10% in favour of the Biden camp Biden takes the lead and goes on to win.

Really they dont do themselves any favours though for a Country (or collection of Countries) with supposed brains and tech that sent a man to the moon because they dont count count more quickly - that they drip out the Vote count and percentages continuously instead of keeping stum as we do in our Constituncies - which allows News networks to be all over them desperate to "call" a State for Biden or Trump because they are looking like they have won it and the News Channel wants to be first with that News

They are a Federal collection and imo its up to them but surely they should just decide such an important race by popular vote - that is Candidaate A has amassed x votes and Candidate B has amassed y votes - a straight race which this time round would have favoured Biden as he has 4 million votes more and a clear cut result rather than the contrives EC System

They should have the same rules wherever they are on something so important - so the Votes are received and counted in the same way and maybe even released "as one" whole result at the same time or can be collated as in the Eurovision if they want tension

AND above all they should bloody count quicker !

[tyke1962]

Even if Biden wins this election it has still been a disaster for the Democrats and something that should concern non tories in the UK .

Trump's popularity has actually held up , in fact it's more than that he's won more votes than he did in 2016 .

I reckon without Covid he may have actually won this , he still might of course .

To send this populist brand of politics packing the Democrats had to win big and if they are successful it's by a c@ck hair .

Populism ain't going anywhere , I'd take note if I was you Starmer .

Tyke.
What policies do you reckon the Democrats could have presented that would have stopped people voting for Trump?

By the way, it's not a close election. Biden is going to win the Electoral College by at least 290-248. And the popular vote by probably 5 million.

We are only calling this close because of the delay in counting postal votes. If they'd been counted at the same time as the in person votes, this would have been over and done 36 hours ago. Don't fall into the Republicans' trap of believing this is close because of legislation they have passed to delay the postal vote count.

What I find particularly worrying Billy is that almost 70 million Americans voted for Trump having had a good look at him for four years in the job .

That's not the kind of return that puts populism out of the game and given the nature of Trump , the catastrophic leadership and his handling of Covid 19 I'd have expected a lot less than that .

The differential in votes between Biden and Trump is 4 million in a country of that size .

That should worry us all in my opinion .

[SydneyRover]

Trump looked gone already at his last presser, a lot of accusations of course but no fire, no rants, nothing, like he was going through the motions.

[Donnywolf]

Ironic as he reminds me OF a motion

[SydneyRover]

it will be poetry in motion when he does go Wolf, less than 700 votes difference in Georgia

[SydneyRover]

Biden 463 votes behind in Georgia

[TommyC]

So whilst it's clear Donald is out of the White House I do wonder what happens next. Once the spurious legal cases have been thrown out, I can see him continuing to be a massive political agitator from the comfort of Trump Tower. He will proclaim himself the "true President" and continue to hold rallies, mobilising his support base in criticism of the corrupt political system and "the swamp" who stole an election etc. He will be a thorn in the side of the Democrats at every turn, compounded by the fact that they look like being largely impotent and unable to do anything meaningful due to not having the senate. Then Trump runs again in 2024 in an even more divided and stirred up Country and I suspect he may very well win bigly at that point. I daresay his platform will include constitutional reform high on its agenda. That's when people should start worrying! It could ultimately have been better had he won this time and seen out the next four years before buggering off into obscurity.

Trump 2024...get your money on it is my view! Unless they manage to finally get him convicted in the meantime that is!

[IDM]

Or altermatively the Republicans nominate another candidate.?

[Donnywolf]

Yes he will be doing the "Loco - motion" soon as there seems to be thousand upon thousands of votes still to count

North Carolina & Nevada have till November the 12th to count their votes and say they will need all that ! Yet in Nevada they are using machines to count

Seriously they need a new system of counting and reporting etc because such a thing as North Carolina and Nevada play right into Trumps hands. Also the go slow in Nevada and Arizona dont help - although in the past it seems to have been ok for them.

Usually the Networks rush to "call" States for one candidate or the other just to be first and when they are not yet certified results and it has always been that way - just this time it is so close everybody has an opinion.

The States should perhaps get their a***s in gear and agree how they do it going forwards and not leave Trump with an open goal

[Filo]

I think the Vice President Pence and the cabinet can declare Trump unfit for office and Pence becomes President until January. This could be seen to be the Republicans trying to at least repair some of the damage done to them by this maniac. Pence may well then issue a pardon to Trump in return for Trump slinking away, the danger then for Pence is he then becomes the target for Trumps criminal activities

[DonnyOsmond]

Biden 463 votes behind in Georgia

Biden's leading now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo. There's no pardon to be awarded because Trump hasn't been convicted of anything.

Yet.

[SydneyRover]

The world needs some good news, it could be better but I couldn't think of a better way to start.

[Glyn_Wigley]

MM
McConnell is key here. He's got everything he wanted from Trump. He's got a 6-3 Supreme Court. He's got 400 conservative justices on lower courts. He said in this theme just last week (and it was breathtakingly brazen) "we may lose the Presidency but they can't take this change away from us."

I suspect McConnell is letting Trump light the fire under the Republican base. Then he'll knife him and look to use that fire to turbocharge another far right populist in 2024, after he's spent the next 4 years using the Senate to block every Biden policy.

That's the optimistic scenario.

The pessimistic one is that the entire Republican party goes all in on Trump's attempted coup, and the Supreme Court approves the legal challenges.

If that happens, God help us, because it truly is the start of a total breakdown.

It won't have escaped McConnell's notice that he personally will have more power if Trump loses. And for that same reason I doubt whether the elected Republicans will back Trump at all, they'll hang him out to dry. They'll make sympathetic noises to Trump but I can't see any of them flinging accusations of fraud about. When it comes to backing Trump's lies or the system, they'll back the system.

Trump must surely know this by now, so to me it's really all about Trump never having to say he lost, but that he was swindled and it doesn't matter if anyone believes him or not - his ego will just never let him acknowledge that he lost anything. And he'll stick to that for the rest of his life despite everybody pointing and laughing at him when he does so. My guess is that in order to keep his fantasy alive he won't ever make the traditional concession speech either because it's a public admission of defeat.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Biden 463 votes behind in Georgia

Biden's leading now.

Crazy how out of 5m votes there's less than .01% in it.

[SydneyRover]

US Guardian

''There?s a lot being made on social media that two of the states that Biden has possibly flipped to take the White House from Donald Trump are the home states of the late Sen. John McCain, frequently on the receiving end of cruel barbs from the president, and the late Rep. John Lewis, civil rights icon and an implacable opponent to Trump and to racism in American society''

bit of irony there

[Padge_DRFC]

Even if Biden wins this election it has still been a disaster for the Democrats and something that should concern non tories in the UK .

Trump's popularity has actually held up , in fact it's more than that he's won more votes than he did in 2016 .

I reckon without Covid he may have actually won this , he still might of course .

To send this populist brand of politics packing the Democrats had to win big and if they are successful it's by a c@ck hair .

Populism ain't going anywhere , I'd take note if I was you Starmer .

Tyke.
What policies do you reckon the Democrats could have presented that would have stopped people voting for Trump?

By the way, it's not a close election. Biden is going to win the Electoral College by at least 290-248. And the popular vote by probably 5 million.

We are only calling this close because of the delay in counting postal votes. If they'd been counted at the same time as the in person votes, this would have been over and done 36 hours ago. Don't fall into the Republicans' trap of believing this is close because of legislation they have passed to delay the postal vote count.

Won't he win by about 52 48 percent split on the popular vote? Definitely not close. Rings a bell also 🤣

[BillyStubbsTears]

Padge.

Aye. And the vote can be reversed in 4 years time if folk change their minds.

[EasyforDennis]

Biden 463 votes behind in Georgia

Biden's leading now.

Crazy how out of 5m votes there's less than .01% in it.

Crazy that so many people can be hoodwinked by such a crook.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'm looking forward to seeing Trump's reaction when someone uses the phrase 'President-Elect Biden' to his face! :D

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Biden 463 votes behind in Georgia

Biden's leading now.

Crazy how out of 5m votes there's less than .01% in it.

Crazy that so many people can be hoodwinked by such a crook.

You're not wrong.

However a few of my friends former colleagues in America did vote trump.  One mentioned why on Facebook. It's not trump it's Biden, they just didn't like him.at all or the democrats.  To some Americans trump has done a good job and they can see past his idiotic ramblings.  It is much easier from afar as the detailed policies don't affect us. So many will have a different take to us.