The queen say's matt hancock is full of ..................

[belton rover]

Belton.

Sit down. Stop typing. Read my post again. And then ask yourself what is going on in your head that leads you to conclude that I'm being disrespectful to the man who lost his wife.



I absolutely and totally admire the man. He's an example to us all. I was NOT referring to him in criticising the "meh" brigade.

Your interpretation and response is so far beyond ridiculous it is frightening.

How is it my error if you don’t mean what you write?

And why can’t you do what he did?

[SydneyRover]

If you have ten minutes, listen to this interview on R$'s Today programme this morning, with the Justice Secretary.

He basically says what I've been saying in here. Nick Robinson lists all the examples of ministerial misconduct which have gone unpunished, and he basically says "It doesn't matter. None of it matters. We can do what we want because we have the public on our side." And he would appear to be right.

This is literally how democracies fall apart, when people do not hold politicians to account. Democracy isn't about whether or not you have a vote. It is about whether you process what politicians are doing in your name, and whether you care enough to withdraw your support from ones who break the rules. If you don't then in all but name, democracy doesn't exist and we basically say "Do what you want lads and lasses".

Whole thing starts at 2.10.20 but the key bit is the 70-80 seconds from 2.16.50
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000xdx2

It is the way of johnson, ride it out and distract the children.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

Sit down. Stop typing. Read my post again. And then ask yourself what is going on in your head that leads you to conclude that I'm being disrespectful to the man who lost his wife.



I absolutely and totally admire the man. He's an example to us all. I was NOT referring to him in criticising the "meh" brigade.

Your interpretation and response is so far beyond ridiculous it is frightening.

How is it my error if you don’t mean what you write?

And why can’t you do what he did?

No Belton.

You have chosen to make a bizarre interpretation of what I wrote, in a way that could only be meant if I was a moral monster. You have done that multiple times before and I am sick to the back teeth of it.

I have no idea if you do this because you are a truly vile, unpleasant troublemaker, or if you have become so unhinged by your interactions with me that you're unable to see straight. I've tried to address this by ignoring you, but you have continued to troll me. I've only ever blocked one person before on this site, but you have stretched my patience to snapping. GO and find someone else to troll now. You're blocked.

[belton rover]

Billy. Everyone makes mistakes. If you poorly worded your post, then fine. Say so and I will accept it.
It seems there’s a lot of protesting going on from yo. Too much, perhaps.

I’m not sure what blocking me means on here, but go for it, if that’s what you want.

[Herbert Anchovy]

I didn’t think he’d go unless he was fired. I guess it all got too hot for him. If I’m being honest, he was found to be out of his depth many, many months ago albeit nobody can deny that the job must have been incredibly difficult due to Covid.

However, he’s just another in a long line of politicians on both sides of the house who have serious capability issues. Even Andrew Neil referred to the cabinet as nothing more than a ‘C’ list cabinet.Equally, the Labour front bench doesn’t fill me with confidence either. Whilst the Tory cabinet is useless, the Labour front bench is insipid. Hancock is just a creation of this culture of hopelessness without consequences. It seems a million miles from the great parliamentarians of the past such as Heseltine, Clarke, Healey and John Smith. When, even if you disagreed with them, you could rest at night in the knowledge that they were at least competent. I can’t say the same for most of the current lot I’m afraid.

[belton rover]

Absolutely that, Herbert.

[drfchound]

Absolutely that, Herbert.

Indeed absolutely that…..but I doubt very much that many on here will agree with all of that post.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I didn’t think he’d go unless he was fired. I guess it all got too hot for him. If I’m being honest, he was found to be out of his depth many, many months ago albeit nobody can deny that the job must have been incredibly difficult due to Covid.

However, he’s just another in a long line of politicians on both sides of the house who have serious capability issues. Even Andrew Neil referred to the cabinet as nothing more than a ‘C’ list cabinet.Equally, the Labour front bench doesn’t fill me with confidence either. Whilst the Tory cabinet is useless, the Labour front bench is insipid. Hancock is just a creation of this culture of hopelessness without consequences. It seems a million miles from the great parliamentarians of the past such as Heseltine, Clarke, Healey and John Smith. When, even if you disagreed with them, you could rest at night in the knowledge that they were at least competent. I can’t say the same for most of the current lot I’m afraid.

Couldn't agree more HA. I've said for years that we live in an age of political pygmies.

Years ago, the top of both major parties was dominated by people of very high intellect with long records of serious thought and/or responsibility before entering Parliament. Whatever you thought of their politics, they were people of substance, intellectually and practically.

Harold Wilson and Rab Butler both taught at Oxbridge before becoming MPs. Clem Attlee taught economics at the LSE. Enoch Powell was a Professor of History at the age of 25! Ernie Bevin had run the TUC and Nye Bevan worked tirelessly as a mining shop steward. Most of them, and many, many others, had served as officers in the War, with all the responsibility that entailed.

Now, very few MPs have any track record of anything outside politics before they become MPs. Many of those that do have been Murdoch journalists or city traders. [1]

I reckon it is the natural consequence of generations of belittling and abusing MPs. Why should anyone of real talent want to put themselves through that mill for the money that they get? I've always thought a country gets the politicians it deserves. If we as a people don't treat it seriously, why should serious people devote their lives to the calling?

[1] PS: Something just struck me on this. The job of opinion journalists like Gove and Johnson (and people in the Law - like Blair - who are also disproportionately over represented in Parliament) is to convince someone to agree with them, whatever the truth of the matter. The job of city spivs (like Javed) is to take risks and bend the rules as far as you can get away with to make a pile for you and your team.

Look at it like that, and the things I despair about in modern politics are inevitable.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Thinking about the last politicians who I really admired (without necessarily agreeing with them) I’d have to go for Alan Johnson for Labour and Steve Norris for the Conservatives. Alan Johnson was the leader who got away for me. I think he’d a been a great PM but I suspect he saw the way politics was going and didn’t like it. Steve Norris always spoke with clarity, conviction and compassion. Even if I disagreed with his views, which was often, I thought he showed a great balance in his opinions and wasn’t afraid to hold unpopular views for the time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Among current Tories, I have a lot of admiration for the thoughtful approach of Jesse Norman and Andrew Tyrie, again, while often (usually) differing from them on their political stance.

On Labour's side, I actuallly came very much to admire John McDonnell, who would have made an infinitely better leader than Corbyn for the Left. He understood the way that Capitalism works far better than any recent Tory Chancellor, and he also understood that you getting nothing on the Left by impressing other people on the Left. Corbyn's massive failure was that the first people he wanted to impress were his ideologically sound compadres, like Milne, never seeming to understand how that made him look to the rest of the country. Towards the end, McDonnell was barely disguising his frustration at the navel gazing on the Corbynite Left over anti-Semitism and Brexit. Fascinating alternative history in the branch where McDonnell was the one who stood and won the Labour leadership in 2015.

[belton rover]

This current sub-topic deserves its own thread before it gets swallowed up with what do do with Hancock and Johnson.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I thought there was a good point made by a former secretary to Margaret Thatcher interviewed on the news today.

There's a lot of good mps who do great work for the right reasons and you hear nothing about on all sides.  Many of these despite being different parties have similar views on most things and that shouldn't be forgotten.

[belton rover]

That is an all to well forgotten point, Big. It would be interesting to know who would be happier with a government not of their party choice who were, fundamentally, ‘good’ politicians and ‘good’ people, rather than not-so-good politicians of their own party.
I know I would.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I thought there was a good point made by a former secretary to Margaret Thatcher interviewed on the news today.

There's a lot of good mps who do great work for the right reasons and you hear nothing about on all sides.  Many of these despite being different parties have similar views on most things and that shouldn't be forgotten.

I don't doubt that many are reasonably diligent. I do question whether they are particularly able.

Two of my contemporaries at university made it to become quite senior MPs, one of them a minister. I can tell you with my hand on my heart that neither of them has a stellar intellect and neither of them was particularly knowledgeable. One of them, during a student union debate about South Africa, referred repeatedly to "Steve Riko"  and couldn't understand why peope were laughing on such a serious topic, until someone shouted out "It's BIKO you pillock."

Neither of them were the sort you would mark down for great things. Except they did have one talent. The ability to dominate a discussion through force of personality.

As for MPs having similar views, I think I'd differ on that to some extent. Certainly on core issues like the big picture way that you run an economy, there is a ocean of difference between Left and Right. There was probably much closer agreement in the 50s-70s. The term Butskellism was coined to reflect the similar approaches of the Tory Chancellor Rab Butler and the Labour Shadow Chancellor Hugh Gaitskell. Then a massive division when Thatcher took the Tories to neoliberalism in the 1980s. Then probably closer agreement in the 90s and 00s when Blair took Labour in the same direction. But since the GFC, there has been a huge gulf between Labour and the Tories on how to run the economy.

[TheFunk]

Apparently Gove is the next one to have been caught with his pants down. If there's a video of that it's definitely niche.

[Filo]

Apparently Gove is the next one to have been caught with his pants down. If there's a video of that it's definitely niche.

I can’t believe there are two people in the Country that would let that weasle shag them

[BillyStubbsTears]

Gove and Vine divorcing. Can you begin to imagine which one would be more guilty of unreasonable behaviour?

[drfchound]

Apparently Gove is the next one to have been caught with his pants down. If there's a video of that it's definitely niche.

The Guardian article I saw about this says that both parties claim no one else is involved in their separation.

[Nudga]

Gove likes the two cream crackers and a diary slice.

[BillyStubbsTears]

He certainly likes the Columbian marching powder. While his Govt sends people who have lived in the UK since they were toddlers back to Jamaica for selling drugs.

[SydneyRover]

Apparently Gove is the next one to have been caught with his pants down. If there's a video of that it's definitely niche.

The Guardian article I saw about this says that both parties claim no one else is involved in their separation.

Supporting what filo said I think that would be the safest bet on the planet atm

[drfchound]

Apparently Gove is the next one to have been caught with his pants down. If there's a video of that it's definitely niche.

The Guardian article I saw about this says that both parties claim no one else is involved in their separation.

Supporting what filo said I think that would be the safest bet on the planet atm

That may be the case but I was going by what the Guardian said.
Don’t they always report the truth.

[Hounslowrover]

Hound, if you report accurately what people say, then the Paper is reporting the truth. If the people saying it are untruthful, then their words may later rebound on them, just think how many times Trump lied, but the papers reported what he said.

[drfchound]

Very true.
I must be very gullible then if I believe what is said in the Guardian.

[SydneyRover]

Very true.
I must be very gullible then if I believe what is said in the Guardian.

I was agreeing with your post hound, don't be so defensive

[drfchound]

Very true.
I must be very gullible then if I believe what is said in the Guardian.

I was agreeing with your post hound, don't be so defensive

SR, I was replying to Hounslow.
It isn’t all about you pal.

[SydneyRover]

tell you what though hound anytime you can show where the guardian wrote something not true and didn't apologise I will double whatever you pay into the foodbank.

[drfchound]

Sydney, now who is being defensive.

[SydneyRover]

it's an open bet take it or leave it don't make every pound a prisoner

[drfchound]

More riddles?