Objective truth once again.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Posted in the vain hope that the thread might stay on topic this time.

I've posted before on here about Sunak glibly lying about basic economics.

He's doing a similar thing here about the virus.

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlieboylert/status/1431175553411862532

Look at his face as he says "We can't control the spread of the virus". When what he means is "We have made a political choice not to control the spread of the virus."

Before anyone wades in, this has got nothing whatsoever to do with whether you agree with the policy or not. It is unambiguous denial of basic Objective Truth. And it is rife throughout the political Right these days.

[Ldr]

Billy, there are 650 MPs in the HOC, I wouldn’t believe a word from a single one of them

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.
And as I've said countless times, ALL politicians use spin, dissembling and partial truth. That's part of the game to put their argument in the best light.

What NO politician has done until very, very recently is to get away with openly denying matters of objective truth. Issues where the veracity of a fact is easily establishable.

This is a very recent development and it is only happening on the Right of politics. And it is extremely dangerous because if you cannot establish and agree basic facts, it is impossible to have informed debate.

[River Don]

Biden claimed if America wasn't pulling out of Afghanistan he'd one have to commit thousands more American troops to the occupation.

Ignoring the fact that it was because of the withdrawal, the lack of security that allowed the extremists in the streets and the desperate crowds that made the airport a target in the first place.

I thought it was a very flimsy justification for the manner of this withdrawal.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But that's not an issue of objective truth RD. That's a statement of policy assessment which you can support or condemn.

I'm talking about politicians deny basic, established facts. Sunak did it when he said we have to repay Govt debt. We don't. There's no argument about that. It's a fact.

He's doing it here in saying we cannot control the spread of the virus. We can. That's a matter of objective truth.

What he's doing is saying "these are the policies we choose to implement, and if I glibly lie by saying we aren't actually choosing them, they are imposed on us as issues we cannot control, I will close down debate on the issues. Especially when BBC journalists just sit there a d nod safely instead of doing their f**king job and pointing out the lies."

[drfchound]

Ldr.
And as I've said countless times, ALL politicians use spin, dissembling and partial truth. That's part of the game to put their argument in the best light.

What NO politician has done until very, very recently is to get away with openly denying matters of objective truth. Issues where the veracity of a fact is easily establishable.

This is a very recent development and it is only happening on the Right of politics. And it is extremely dangerous because if you cannot establish and agree basic facts, it is impossible to have informed debate.

So they are all the same then.

[belton rover]

Posted in the vain hope that the thread might stay on topic this time.

I've posted before on here about Sunak glibly lying about basic economics.

He's doing a similar thing here about the virus.

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlieboylert/status/1431175553411862532

Look at his face as he says "We can't control the spread of the virus". When what he means is "We have made a political choice not to control the spread of the virus."

Before anyone wades in, this has got nothing whatsoever to do with whether you agree with the policy or not. It is unambiguous denial of basic Objective Truth. And it is rife throughout the political Right these days.

When you say ‘stay on topic’, do you mean the topic of objective truth or the topic of blatantly biased attacks on the party you despise? You seem to be confusing the two very conflicting topics, which is probably why you mistakenly think the other thread went off topic before.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And so it goes on.

The very point my previous thread on the subject was about is being doubled down on.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/dhsc-playbook-orders-trusts-to-describe-big-building-projects-as-new-hospitals/7030790.article

The Govt has said it will build 40 new hospitals. Therefore the record will show 40 new hospitals built. And senior public servants are being instructed to lie on the issue.

[dickos1]

[BillyStubbsTears]

And again.

Johnson has said today that he wants to cut taxes and said that when he was London mayor he cut tax by 20%.

Except he didn't.

Tax came down by 11% and that was almost entirely due to the automatic end of the surcharge for the Olympics.

This used to matter. But truth now seems to be out of the window and long gone.

[SydneyRover]

A 11.4 billion tax rise is now a cut, sounds a bit tommy cooper

[dickos1]

Maybe you two should just message each other

[SydneyRover]

Maybe you two should just message each other

I guess you're only here because MM has spurned you?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And again.

Johnson has said today that he wants to cut taxes and said that when he was London mayor he cut tax by 20%.

Except he didn't.

Tax came down by 11% and that was almost entirely due to the automatic end of the surcharge for the Olympics.

This used to matter. But truth now seems to be out of the window and long gone.

What gets me is, when Diane Abbott once quoted incorrect figures in an interview (corrected very quickly) it became a meme that is joyfully repeated over and over again, years later.

When Johnson makes shit up repeatedly and never ever corrects the record....nothing.

I wonder what the difference is?

[Ldr]

Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid

[SydneyRover]

Most of the government ministry over the past 11 years have been worse than DA for most of the the time and have sold the country down the river.

The money lost through Austerity and brexit could have seen the UK in good shape and what's more this has been identified and should have been turned around.

Dumb shits such as grayling, williamson, shapps the list goes on and on and on ...............

[dickos1]

Maybe you two should just message each other

I guess you're only here because MM has spurned you?

Who?
I think you’re losing the plot

[Ldr]

Most of the government ministry over the past 11 years have been worse than DA for most of the the time and have sold the country down the river.

The money lost through Austerity and brexit could have seen the UK in good shape and what's more this has been identified and should have been turned around.

Dumb shits such as grayling, williamson, shapps the list goes on and on and on ...............

I have definitely come to the conclusion that if either the Labour Party or the Conservative party are the answer, we are asking the wrong bloody questions

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid

And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?

[Ldr]

Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid

And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?

Not at all, the public hate Labour more than the conservatives so it fits

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd say there's an lazy nastiness in people that delights in seeing someone make a stupid, but innocent slip up and then struggle under pressure, but doesn't care about someone confidently lying as a matter of policy.

I'm also sure the fact that one person is a strident (hectoring, even) black female and the other is a jolly good white chap from the English upper classes has something to do with some people's reaction, but I'm pointing no fingers.

The bigger point of course is that Johnson is part of a move away from valuing the sacrosanct nature of objective truth. It DID used to be that politicians who were caught unequivocally lying were out of the game very quickly. Now, no-one seems to care that our PM blithely lies on an almost daily basis about everything imaginable. We have a grim future if this isn't reversed.  If there is no penalty for lies, there is no incentive for anyone to be truthful.

[sha66y]

I think you are  saying that they now have the bare-faced affrontary to just tell a great big obvious lie to the camera and media , and then defy anyone to point out they are lying......

Yeah I get his, seen it a lot with all the backroom big boys club!

They do not care if they get caught in a lie, it’s probably a bit of a game ...... and as there is no opposition party .....it will continue, but as long as it doesn’t affect me I’ll let it slide.....

[Axholme Lion]

Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid

And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?

They're both shit. No argument from me there.
None of the major parties are worth voting for. It needs something new and fresh. A party who speaks common non pc sense with the interests of the average man in the street at heart. We equally don't want a party which panders to the rich and big business or one which cares more for lunatic fringe groups, scroungers and asylum seekers than our own people.

[belton rover]

Maybe you two should just message each other

That’s not how you spell massage.

[hstripes]

Re the Sunak clip. Essentially this is terrible journalism.

When a politician says something stupid, undeniably the case here, any halfway competent journalist needs to pick this up and question them on it.

- If on questioning it becomes apparent they meant what they said then their stupidity is quite correctly exposed to the voting public.

- Alternatively where they have misspoken they are fairly given an immediate opportunity to correct themselves and where appropriate apologies. They can also then avoid being unfairly attacked by opponents on a genuine mistake - opponents who could infer and spread all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense from an innocent slip of the tongue.

[SydneyRover]

Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid

And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?

Not at all, the public hate Labour more than the conservatives so it fits

So williamson who can barely tie shoelaces be pilloried and hounded, it help if your mates own the comics?

Minister admits mistake over Marcus Rashford-Maro Itoje mix-up

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58490809

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/GlennyRodge/status/1435609419396620294

[SydneyRover]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkum4B162M

[drfchound]

I'd say there's an lazy nastiness in people that delights in seeing someone make a stupid, but innocent slip up and then struggle under pressure, but doesn't care about someone confidently lying as a matter of policy.

I'm also sure the fact that one person is a strident (hectoring, even) black female and the other is a jolly good white chap from the English upper classes has something to do with some people's reaction, but I'm pointing no fingers.

Jeez.  Let’s play the racist card quick, it always works.

[Bentley Bullet]

Hound, why do you still bother?