Formula one.

[Donnywolf]

Agree it is a totally unacceptable decision but once Masi chose his "hybrid" decision to let only 4 cars past to "make a grandstand / exciting" finish he had cooked the books but they have closed in around him

They are defending the indefensible as he looked to have only 2 legal options

a) allow lapped cars past SC but that means all of them - and then SC had to do one more. That would mean the laps would run out but crashes happen - and finishing behind SC isnt ideal but "tough luck"

b) in his remit he could choose to leave the Lapped cars where they were and start race once track was cleared. Verstappen would have 2 or 3 laps to catch Lew but at least he would benefit from lapped Cars being told he was there and Blue Flags telling them a faster car is behind you - move over

I have never known this to be done but it was legal

What he chose to do, directly in contravention of the rules he is supposed to work to and make others uphold was firstly let half of the Cars past but secondly let the S Car leave the track straight away instead of making it do one more Lap

Both those are against their Rules so he made a mess for FIA and the sport

It would have been chaotic to start the race with a load of lapped cars in the way, i can certainly see why those rules were applied,  but surely it wouldn't have taken much longer to let the other (3?) cars through, isn't the main beef that normally lapped cars are given a whole extra lap under the safety car to catch the field up? Whereas yesterday as soon as the last one (Vettel?) was through the safety car lights went out.

I'm pleased Verstappen won, i think its good for the sport to have different winners, but the manner in which it happened was very unsatisfactory and felt like manufactured drama.

I agree ... it would be chaotic and I can't recall a race where the lapped cars were left in place

In my last big post that you quote I did say Masi had 2 legal ways to restart the Race

There may have been a 3rd way to act and that would be to throw the Red Flag which would then have counted as a result (but as somebody pointed out earlier,) the Rules are complex

Masi's mistake was going for a restart after letting half the lapped Cars past and then immediately getting the SC off the track

It is and was wrong legally on 2 counts and this will run and run
 

I make a prediction that eventually they will annul the whole race and no points will be given to anyone which will leave MV and LH level on points but the Belgian born Dutchman will take the title by virtue of more wins

The last bit is pure conjecture of course and won't be as accurate as my prediction that we would beat Shrewsbury

[wilts rover]

Hamilton lives in Monaco too.

Yes but you have already said you don't like Hamilton. I'm just wondering what the difference is between multimillionaire tax dodger 'yob'* Max Verstappen, with his $6million yacht, and Monaco resident but UK taxpayer and noted charitable worker, Lewis Hamilton, that makes you think one is arrogant and the other one isn't?

*Jeremy Clarkson - presumably refering to the community service Verstappen had to do for assaulting another driver

[normal rules]

Wrong person. I did not say I did not like Hamilton.

[Mr1Croft]

Agree it is a totally unacceptable decision but once Masi chose his "hybrid" decision to let only 4 cars past to "make a grandstand / exciting" finish he had cooked the books but they have closed in around him

They are defending the indefensible as he looked to have only 2 legal options

a) allow lapped cars past SC but that means all of them - and then SC had to do one more. That would mean the laps would run out but crashes happen - and finishing behind SC isnt ideal but "tough luck"

b) in his remit he could choose to leave the Lapped cars where they were and start race once track was cleared. Verstappen would have 2 or 3 laps to catch Lew but at least he would benefit from lapped Cars being told he was there and Blue Flags telling them a faster car is behind you - move over

I have never known this to be done but it was legal

What he chose to do, directly in contravention of the rules he is supposed to work to and make others uphold was firstly let half of the Cars past but secondly let the S Car leave the track straight away instead of making it do one more Lap

Both those are against their Rules so he made a mess for FIA and the sport

It would have been chaotic to start the race with a load of lapped cars in the way, i can certainly see why those rules were applied,  but surely it wouldn't have taken much longer to let the other (3?) cars through, isn't the main beef that normally lapped cars are given a whole extra lap under the safety car to catch the field up? Whereas yesterday as soon as the last one (Vettel?) was through the safety car lights went out.

I'm pleased Verstappen won, i think its good for the sport to have different winners, but the manner in which it happened was very unsatisfactory and felt like manufactured drama.

I agree ... it would be chaotic and I can't recall a race where the lapped cars were left in place

In my last big post that you quote I did say Masi had 2 legal ways to restart the Race

There may have been a 3rd way to act and that would be to throw the Red Flag which would then have counted as a result (but as somebody pointed out earlier,) the Rules are complex

Masi's mistake was going for a restart after letting half the lapped Cars past and then immediately getting the SC off the track

It is and was wrong legally on 2 counts and this will run and run
 

I make a prediction that eventually they will annul the whole race and no points will be given to anyone which will leave MV and LH level on points but the Belgian born Dutchman will take the title by virtue of more wins

The last bit is pure conjecture of course and won't be as accurate as my prediction that we would beat Shrewsbury

There were a few seasons during Red Bull's dominant years before turbo hybrid era where the lapped cars were not allowed to unlap themselves during a safety car, the theory was they would be blue flagged anyway and quickly cleared, but it caused pure chaos in a couple of races and the rule was quickly brought back.

As for Masi, as the Race Director he does have overriding authority over the use of the Safety Car during the race weekend (article 15.3).

Controversial? Definitely. Blatantly against the rules, I don't think so. We have to remember this unfolded over the course of about 5 minutes, these cars are still going round at around 90MPH behind the safety car, it's not like other sports where you could stop the race and take time to study all the options before making a sound judgement. During safety car his primary concern is to clear the obstacle/danger on track and then let racing resume in a safe and fair manner.

I believe a Red Flag can only be brought out if allowing the cars to remain on track behind the safety car would put drivers, circuit staff or spectators at risk, Masi did say throughout the race weekend in his various media interviews that it was very likely a T14 incident would not result in a Red Flag unless it was a big crash.

He also maintained in the protest hearing (according to documents published) that all the teams agreed that they didn't want the final race of the season to end behind a safety car. So it would appear he made a judgement call to get the lapped cars out of the way so there was a race to the line for the top two in the race who also happened to be the top two in the title fight.

I believe the 5 cars that were allowed to unlap themselves were those fighting for the final point positions (7th - 11th) whereas the rest not lapped were not fighting for points so unlapping them would have little affect on points (I'm sure Riccardo in P12 would disagree). Whilst this is my opinion of why they came to that decision, I don't particularly agree with it, had the instruction came through before T5 there was time for all lapped cars to unlap themselves.

I'm afraid I can't see it being overturned, for that to happen to FIA would have to overturn their own ruling, which would have to overturn the race result which would then overturn the Drivers Championship - it's just too big a U-turn to happen and would bring far more damage to the sport than anything that happened in yesterday's race. Since buying F1, Liberty Media have gone to great lengths to try and reach a wider audience with the sport and whilst there has been questions raised over how the race ended yesterday, it has raised the profile of the sport and I can't see them allowing arguably the most tense final lap in decades be ruled null and void in a courtroom.

One thing I will say however, I've not enjoyed listening to the pitwalls battering the race director and stewards during the race this season, and yesterday was equally bad by both Toto and Horner.

[Donnywolf]

I have to bow to your opinion there with that Username particularly ;

I'm afraid I can't see it being overturned, for that to happen to FIA would have to overturn their own ruling

& definetely

One thing I will say however, I've not enjoyed listening to the pitwalls battering the race director and stewards during the race this season, and yesterday was equally bad by both Toto and Horner.

[i_ateallthepies]

I believe the 5 cars that were allowed to unlap themselves were those fighting for the final point positions (7th - 11th) whereas the rest not lapped were not fighting for points so unlapping them would have little affect on points (I'm sure Riccardo in P12 would disagree). Whilst this is my opinion of why they came to that decision, I don't particularly agree with it, had the instruction came through before T5 there was time for all lapped cars to unlap themselves.

If there were unlapped cars behind the leaders, the lapped cars could not be the ones fighting for the points.

[mugnapper]

Hamilton lives in Monaco too.

Yes but you have already said you don't like Hamilton. I'm just wondering what the difference is between multimillionaire tax dodger 'yob'* Max Verstappen, with his $6million yacht, and Monaco resident but UK taxpayer and noted charitable worker, Lewis Hamilton, that makes you think one is arrogant and the other one isn't?

*Jeremy Clarkson - presumably refering to the community service Verstappen had to do for assaulting another driver

Clarkson calling someone a yob for punching a colleague??
Has he forgotten this incident from his past that led to him and his 2 posh/odd chums leaving the BBC?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35648682

[drfchound]

A funny tweet from Dan Walker following the balls up of the UEFA CL draw.
He said that Max Verstapen has been declared the winner of this seasons Champions League.

[keyser_soze]

I have to bow to your opinion there with that Username particularly ;

I'm afraid I can't see it being overturned, for that to happen to FIA would have to overturn their own ruling

& definetely

One thing I will say however, I've not enjoyed listening to the pitwalls battering the race director and stewards during the race this season, and yesterday was equally bad by both Toto and Horner.

Its an element of the sport that has been hidden until fairly recently and its a whole different aspect, squabbling over penalties, bartering and gamesmanship and trying everything to gain an advantage. Fascinating to hear it though.

Must say the coverage provided is fantastic, what an insight. Can't imagine the resource required to monitor all that radio traffic between 20 engineers and drivers and 10 teams and the race director and decide what to send to air (after bleeping out the expletives!), often within seconds of it being heard live.

[Filo]

I believe the 5 cars that were allowed to unlap themselves were those fighting for the final point positions (7th - 11th) whereas the rest not lapped were not fighting for points so unlapping them would have little affect on points (I'm sure Riccardo in P12 would disagree). Whilst this is my opinion of why they came to that decision, I don't particularly agree with it, had the instruction came through before T5 there was time for all lapped cars to unlap themselves.

If there were unlapped cars behind the leaders, the lapped cars could not be the ones fighting for the points.

Carlos Sainz in 3rd place was fighting for points but wasn’t allowed to race because the lapped cars in front of him were n’t allowed through

[Donnywolf]

My final say is one I can't even articulate . I've tried to tell some people but it's never worked yet so writing it might not work either

Masi had to make a big decision in - as they said on Sky "minutes or even seconds"

He did but his mistake was to generate a scenario where the race could be decided "in running" BUT there was no ideal way to do it once Latife had crashed

It would have been a bit of an anti climax to run under the SC for the last 5 laps but that's F1 and if Latife had crashed 1 or 2 laps later THAT would have been that, no time for a restart and the race would have ended that way anyway and most F1 fans would have understood

That would be an unfortunate way to end but it would be "motorsport"

Imo lots of fans would have understood as it's happened before and it will happen again and (again my opinion) would have preferred it to the contrived finish that Masi eventually concocted

[Donnywolf]

.,. and one which probably (no one can say for certain) altered the result and the F1 World Championship winner

I say that as even 6 laps behind  SC could still have had drama and Ham could have had troubles (we will never know)

[wilts rover]

Wrong person. I did not say I did not like Hamilton.

You are correct normal, my apologies

[wilts rover]

I have to bow to your opinion there with that Username particularly ;

I'm afraid I can't see it being overturned, for that to happen to FIA would have to overturn their own ruling

& definetely

One thing I will say however, I've not enjoyed listening to the pitwalls battering the race director and stewards during the race this season, and yesterday was equally bad by both Toto and Horner.

That's right Wolfie. If they learn and change anything from this debacle it should be that no-one other than an offical gets to talk to the race director during a race - thus he can make his decisions without any outside intereference.

[glosterred]

Masi didn’t want the Championship decided under a safety car, but was happy to start a race under a safety car, let the cars drive round Spa for 2 laps under the safety car and then award half points for the race. That was another daft decision by the race director, and for me another reason why he should be asked to step down or sacked from his position.