Should Starmer Resign?

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't want, nor need your pity, BST, besides, when you're ready to rid yourself of the bullshit and answer some questions you'll need all the pity you can muster for yourself.

BB
I don't see any sense in engaging anymore with someone so partisan that they cannot even use words to mean what they mean. When you finally come to realise how stupid it makes you seem, come and have a chat. Until then, I'll confine myself to pointing out your errors. There's no point arguing in good faith with you because you don't understand the concept of arguing in good faith.

Haha, and you call ME embarrassing!

[Bentley Bullet]

Quick Billy's disciples, look up the definition of 'muster'! Must be summat you can zoom in on!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Quick Billy's disciples, look up the definition of 'muster'! Must be summat you can zoom in on!!

Like I say. An utter embarrassment.

[Bentley Bullet]

Answers man...........Answers..........

[BillyStubbsTears]

The point BB is right on though is that Starmer called for Johnson's resignation the minute he was investigated before any judgement, that was a mistake and by that token he should call for his own resignation.

No. He didn't. He called for Johnson to resign for misleading the House, which he clearly did from the very earliest stages of the whole process.

His words:

31 January – Sir Keir Starmer argues that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation. He tweets: 'Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.'

After months of denials, Keir Starmer is now under investigation, what would he say about himself?

BFYP
You're not going to like this, but this is politics. Read Starmer's words. Nowhere does he say: "Johnson must resign BECAUSE he is under investigation."

[BillyStubbsTears]

Answers man...........Answers..........

It's just dawned on me. You do this regularly but I've never clicked before. You reckon it rules me don't you!

How very, very sad.

[Bentley Bullet]

Now it's clicked, maybe you can start answering the actual contents of posts instead of diverting them.

[Branton Red]

Branton
And it's NOT a case of whether they continued working after the food. There is the (strong?) possibility that they were working while having the food (and the drink). Discussing whatever issues had come up during the day, and what needed to be done the next day.

I don't know if that's what happened. But I know from experience that there's no much partying goes on during campaigning. What there is is a shed load of bloody hard work and late nights.

Which makes me veer towards the event being, at worst, a working wind down.

Now, I may be wrong. Maybe they were having a right old knees up. In which case, if evidence of such comes out, unquestionably, Starmer should and will be toast.

I don't think, nor am I suggesting, there was a party/knees up.

As far as the rules in place at the time eating a meal and drinking alcohol together was a social activity, regardless of what was being discussed, and therefore if this was being done after the end of the working day the rules were breached.

Therefore it is absolutely crucial to this case whether work was carried out after the meal was consumed.

It is telling that the Labour Party has not produced into the public realm (nor I assume to the police as the investigation is being reopened) any evidence that work was being carried out after the meal/drinks - this would kill the story/investigation dead. As such evidence (computers/CCTV) should be easy to obtain if Starmer is innocent.

[SydneyRover]

The daily mail is going though landfill sites and recycling depots to try and find more evidence as we speak.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Branton.

No. It's not. If work was carried out DURING the meal, that suffices.

[BillyStubbsTears]

One fascinating aspect to this. There's literally no-one senior in the Tory party having a pop at Starmer. From Johnson down.

It takes a special form of naivete to imagine there's some moral reason for this. Seems to me they know Starmer is very likely to be cleared and they don't want to look stupid when that happens. So they leave their attack dogs in the right wing press to do the hatchet job and convince those who are gullible or biassed enough to be convinced.

[Bentley Bullet]

Or, because they have more important things to do other than the need to apply accusations against the opposition as their only way of progressing as a party.

 Labours' only way of gaining political credit is to discredit the opposition.

[River Don]

The Express, Mail and Sun are all going hard on partygate because it draws criticism away from Johnson. As you say, senior tories are keeping shtum.

If Starmer is fined then it could well back fire on the tories because I do believe Starmer would resign... Leaving Johnson exposed.

Which makes me suspect, they know there's nothing in the Starmer stories. It's a distraction.

Edit. Apparently Starmer has told friends he will resign if he's fined.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Or, because they have more important things to do other than the need to apply accusations against the opposition as their only way of progressing as a party.

 Labours' only way of gaining political credit is to discredit the opposition.

Like I said. A special naivete.

[River Don]

Discrediting the opposition is the meat and drink of politics BB.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BB and Diane Abbott...strange bedfellows.

[ravenrover]

BST

Johnson lied to the house IN YOUR OPINION. Why should he resign just because a politically twisted and biased person like you says he should?

Starmer shouldn't even wait for a verdict, after all, he argued that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation, so why hasn't he resigned?

BB Johnson was asked directly were there any parties his answer was no.
This was later changed to he was not aware of any parties but that all rules had been followed at all times
The Met have decided differently and issued him with a FPN so does that not mean that he did in fact mislead/lie to the house?

[Bentley Bullet]

BST

Johnson lied to the house IN YOUR OPINION. Why should he resign just because a politically twisted and biased person like you says he should?

Starmer shouldn't even wait for a verdict, after all, he argued that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation, so why hasn't he resigned?

BB Johnson was asked directly were there any parties his answer was no.
This was later changed to he was not aware of any parties but that all rules had been followed at all times
The Met have decided differently and issued him with a FPN so does that not mean that he did in fact mislead/lie to the house?

No

[Bentley Bullet]

BB and Diane Abbott...strange bedfellows.

Whatever turns you on, Mr Wiggerly.

[River Don]

BST

Johnson lied to the house IN YOUR OPINION. Why should he resign just because a politically twisted and biased person like you says he should?

Starmer shouldn't even wait for a verdict, after all, he argued that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation, so why hasn't he resigned?

BB Johnson was asked directly were there any parties his answer was no.
This was later changed to he was not aware of any parties but that all rules had been followed at all times
The Met have decided differently and issued him with a FPN so does that not mean that he did in fact mislead/lie to the house?

No

Why not?

[drfchound]

BB.

Johnson also lied to the House.

You are on record as saying you don't think he should resign.

Yet here you are hypothesising over whether Starmer should resign for a situation that in all likelihood will not happen.

You are going to look even more of a biassed idiot than you already do if Starmer is cleared. And given that the police have already set a precedent that eating drinking alcohol with people you spent all day with at a workplace, in a break from work wasn't breaking the law, I'm struggling to see how there is any case for Starmer to answer.

If Starmer is found guilty, I think he should resign and I think I should apologise for having supported him.

What do you think you should do if he isn't?

Quote from mugnapper.
« on: May 05, 2022, 12:58:23 pm »
Well it took a while but now we're back to name calling.
Here endeth another interesting thread.


Well said mugnapper.
Calling another poster a biased idiot is out of order.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST

Johnson lied to the house IN YOUR OPINION. Why should he resign just because a politically twisted and biased person like you says he should?

Starmer shouldn't even wait for a verdict, after all, he argued that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation, so why hasn't he resigned?

BB Johnson was asked directly were there any parties his answer was no.
This was later changed to he was not aware of any parties but that all rules had been followed at all times
The Met have decided differently and issued him with a FPN so does that not mean that he did in fact mislead/lie to the house?

No

Why not?

Because you can be unaware of events or misinterpret them.

I'll keep it at that for now until Billy and his disciples have analysed every word I've written.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST

Johnson lied to the house IN YOUR OPINION. Why should he resign just because a politically twisted and biased person like you says he should?

Starmer shouldn't even wait for a verdict, after all, he argued that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation, so why hasn't he resigned?

BB Johnson was asked directly were there any parties his answer was no.
This was later changed to he was not aware of any parties but that all rules had been followed at all times
The Met have decided differently and issued him with a FPN so does that not mean that he did in fact mislead/lie to the house?

No

There are two possibilities.

1) He knew that an event where his wife and her interior designer come to his office to hold a party broke the rules that he had set in law. In which case he lied to the House about it.

Or

2) He didn't know that broke his own rules. In which case he is dangerously stupid.

There is no other possible conclusion.


Either way, we should have resigned weeks ago.

BB is convinced that he shouldn't resign. Which means he's happy to have a PM who is either irredeemably stupid, or one who deliberately and knowingly misleads the House of Commons.

Folk just need to factor that in when they discuss things with BB.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BST

Johnson lied to the house IN YOUR OPINION. Why should he resign just because a politically twisted and biased person like you says he should?

Starmer shouldn't even wait for a verdict, after all, he argued that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation, so why hasn't he resigned?

BB Johnson was asked directly were there any parties his answer was no.
This was later changed to he was not aware of any parties but that all rules had been followed at all times
The Met have decided differently and issued him with a FPN so does that not mean that he did in fact mislead/lie to the house?

No

BST

Johnson lied to the house IN YOUR OPINION. Why should he resign just because a politically twisted and biased person like you says he should?

Starmer shouldn't even wait for a verdict, after all, he argued that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation, so why hasn't he resigned?

BB Johnson was asked directly were there any parties his answer was no.
This was later changed to he was not aware of any parties but that all rules had been followed at all times
The Met have decided differently and issued him with a FPN so does that not mean that he did in fact mislead/lie to the house?

No

There are two possibilities.

1) He knew that an event where his wife and her interior designer come to his office to hold a party broke the rules that he had set in law. In which case he lied to the House about it.

Or

2) He didn't know that broke his own rules. In which case he is dangerously stupid.

There is no other possible conclusion.


Either way, we should have resigned weeks ago.

BB is convinced that he shouldn't resign. Which means he's happy to have a PM who is either irredeemably stupid, or one who deliberately and knowingly misleads the House of Commons.

Folk just need to factor that in when they discuss things with BB.

You're missing the third possibility - that consistently arguing the toss as ever BB is yet again using his own definition,  this time of the word 'no'.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BB and Diane Abbott...strange bedfellows.

Whatever turns you on, Mr Wiggerly.

Whatever turns me on it certainly isn't any thought of you.

[Bentley Bullet]

Trying to get a bigger gang together aye Billy?!! You really don't see how pathetic you sound, do you!

You are most probably the biggest hypocrite I've EVER come across, and that is from quite a big selection.

It is Labour supporters like you that stop other potential voters from voting for Labour. Who in their right mind wants to be on the same side as a hypocrite like you?

[River Don]

“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”

― Margaret Thatcher

[BillyStubbsTears]

Trying to get a bigger gang together aye Billy?!! You really don't see how pathetic you sound, do you!

You are most probably the biggest hypocrite I've EVER come across, and that is from quite a big selection.

It is Labour supporters like you that stop other potential voters from voting for Labour. Who in their right mind wants to be on the same side as a hypocrite like you?

So you don't agree with logic? Everything makes sense now.

[Bentley Bullet]

BB and Diane Abbott...strange bedfellows.

Whatever turns you on, Mr Wiggerly.

Whatever turns me on it certainly isn't any thought of you.

I was actually thinking more of your desire for Diane Abbott! still, whatever turns you on.

[Bentley Bullet]

Trying to get a bigger gang together aye Billy?!! You really don't see how pathetic you sound, do you!

You are most probably the biggest hypocrite I've EVER come across, and that is from quite a big selection.

It is Labour supporters like you that stop other potential voters from voting for Labour. Who in their right mind wants to be on the same side as a hypocrite like you?

So you don't agree with logic? Everything makes sense now.

Oh I agree with logic, owd lad, just not yours!