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Author Topic: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson  (Read 30820 times)

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River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #930 on May 21, 2022, 10:09:23 pm by River Don »
Now they are disputing who initiated this meeting. Gray is furious Johnson is claiming it was her. Who to believe?

It seems to be every little thing is a bit dodgy.



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wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #931 on May 21, 2022, 11:03:40 pm by wilts rover »
Now they are disputing who initiated this meeting. Gray is furious Johnson is claiming it was her. Who to believe?

It seems to be every little thing is a bit dodgy.

Yes tricky one RD. Who to believe?

Sue Gray, long time civil servant with 40 years unblemished service, including a time as Director General of Propriety & Ethics. In which role the people she investigated (and ended up loosing their jobs) called her fair & extremly straightforward.

Or Alexander de Pfellel Johnson, who doesnt use his real name, has been sacked twice for lying, refuses to say how many children he has, is the first ever sitting PM to be given a criminal sanction and is currently under investigation by a Parliamentary Committee for potentially lying to Parliament.

Tough one.

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #932 on May 22, 2022, 05:34:59 am by wilts rover »
Murdoch's top political journalist confirms this is correct:

Everyone in Britain still acts as if this was a normal government. Instead it is a project of deliberate destruction, of laws, of institutions, of anything that stands in the way of a PM who just doesn’t want to be held to account

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1527729072398278657

But Keir Starmer had a beer with his dinner.

Mmm, not quite the whole scenario there wilts.
Was it an illegal gathering, he denied at first that his deputy leader was present then suddenly realised there was evidence to prove she was there so he “remembered” that she was.
She is hardly difficult to miss is she.

That's interesting hound, I never knew Starmer had denied Rayner was having a curry in Durham with him. Do you have the evidence for that?

I seem to remember there was lots of press and tv coverage of them both campaigning together that day in the north-east (it was a pretty big deal as their first by-election as leader/deputy leader), so where else would she had her dinner working form home?

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/politics/12-pictures-as-sir-keir-starmer-and-angela-rayner-visit-hartlepool-and-durham-on-labour-campaign-trail-3221769

So strange of Starmer to say that? If you can show us where he did then maybe we can see why?

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #933 on May 22, 2022, 05:46:44 am by SydneyRover »
he doesn't do answers, or apologies, snigger

drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #934 on May 22, 2022, 07:48:12 am by drfchound »
Wilts,  from The Northern Echo. 

Labour made a “genuine mistake” in denying Angela Rayner was at a campaign event in Durham where Sir Keir Starmer was photographed drinking beer.
That was admission of the party leader when questioned about the issue on Sky News on Sunday today.




wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #935 on May 22, 2022, 09:00:16 am by wilts rover »
Wilts,  from The Northern Echo. 

Labour made a “genuine mistake” in denying Angela Rayner was at a campaign event in Durham where Sir Keir Starmer was photographed drinking beer.
That was admission of the party leader when questioned about the issue on Sky News on Sunday today.


But that's not what you said hound:

Murdoch's top political journalist confirms this is correct:

Everyone in Britain still acts as if this was a normal government. Instead it is a project of deliberate destruction, of laws, of institutions, of anything that stands in the way of a PM who just doesn’t want to be held to account

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1527729072398278657

But Keir Starmer had a beer with his dinner.

Mmm, not quite the whole scenario there wilts.
Was it an illegal gathering, he denied at first that his deputy leader was present then suddenly realised there was evidence to prove she was there so he “remembered” that she was.
She is hardly difficult to miss is she.

'he denied at first'

Looks like it is easy for people to make mistakes and get things wrong. Even when they know what actually happened as they saw a tv interview about it.

That doesn't make them liars.

Being present at an event then giving a false account of that event - that's a liar.

Hound said something to me that wasn't true. I don't believe hound lied here - he just got it wrong.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #936 on May 22, 2022, 09:24:46 am by Glyn_Wigley »
That reads to me that Starmer's admission is that a mistake was made by whoever said Raynor wasn't there. Not that he himself had said that.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #937 on May 22, 2022, 10:07:52 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Fascinating how these ideas take hold. Starmer never said a word about Rayner not being at that meeting. But so many people on the Right are just certain that he denied she was, so desperate are they to have their prejudice confirmed that he's a liar.

BobG

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #938 on May 22, 2022, 11:04:59 am by BobG »
We are quickly approaching the point of Britain being a nation of liars aren't we?

We tell lies when we sign treaties
We tell lies in the House of Commons
We tell lies, by omission at least, when we report on current events
We tell lies when we seek to vilify someone
We tell lies every time the press goes to print
We tell lies by misusing 96% of statistics....
We tell lies to ourselves every single day by pretending to a world role that we do not and cannot have 
We tell lies by pretending we care about the mentally ill, the deprived, refugees and the North
We tell lies about the impact that Brexit will have
We tell lies about the flow of money, where it comes from and where it goes

This country is fundamentally dishonest.

BobG
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 12:09:18 pm by BobG »

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #939 on May 22, 2022, 11:57:20 am by SydneyRover »
And on cue ........

''Nadhim Zahawi refuses to say who called Boris Johnson meeting with Sue Gray
Minister asked repeatedly for details on PM’s meeting with senior civil servant ahead of Partygate report''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/22/nadhim-zahawi-refuses-to-say-who-called-boris-johnson-meeting-with-sue-gray

why in earth can't you just say johnson's aide rang Gray's office for an appointment?


drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #940 on May 22, 2022, 03:05:16 pm by drfchound »
Wilts,  from The Northern Echo. 

Labour made a “genuine mistake” in denying Angela Rayner was at a campaign event in Durham where Sir Keir Starmer was photographed drinking beer.
That was admission of the party leader when questioned about the issue on Sky News on Sunday today.


But that's not what you said hound:

Murdoch's top political journalist confirms this is correct:

Everyone in Britain still acts as if this was a normal government. Instead it is a project of deliberate destruction, of laws, of institutions, of anything that stands in the way of a PM who just doesn’t want to be held to account

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1527729072398278657

But Keir Starmer had a beer with his dinner.

Mmm, not quite the whole scenario there wilts.
Was it an illegal gathering, he denied at first that his deputy leader was present then suddenly realised there was evidence to prove she was there so he “remembered” that she was.
She is hardly difficult to miss is she.

'he denied at first'

Looks like it is easy for people to make mistakes and get things wrong. Even when they know what actually happened as they saw a tv interview about it.

That doesn't make them liars.

Being present at an event then giving a false account of that event - that's a liar.

Hound said something to me that wasn't true. I don't believe hound lied here - he just got it wrong.

Wilts, is it possible that Starmer didn’t know anything about the Raynor question given that Labour were denying for three months that she was at the beer gate gathering?  Could it really be possible that he knew nothing about it.

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #941 on May 22, 2022, 04:09:59 pm by wilts rover »
Wilts,  from The Northern Echo. 

Labour made a “genuine mistake” in denying Angela Rayner was at a campaign event in Durham where Sir Keir Starmer was photographed drinking beer.
That was admission of the party leader when questioned about the issue on Sky News on Sunday today.


But that's not what you said hound:

Murdoch's top political journalist confirms this is correct:

Everyone in Britain still acts as if this was a normal government. Instead it is a project of deliberate destruction, of laws, of institutions, of anything that stands in the way of a PM who just doesn’t want to be held to account

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1527729072398278657

But Keir Starmer had a beer with his dinner.

Mmm, not quite the whole scenario there wilts.
Was it an illegal gathering, he denied at first that his deputy leader was present then suddenly realised there was evidence to prove she was there so he “remembered” that she was.
She is hardly difficult to miss is she.

'he denied at first'

Looks like it is easy for people to make mistakes and get things wrong. Even when they know what actually happened as they saw a tv interview about it.

That doesn't make them liars.

Being present at an event then giving a false account of that event - that's a liar.

Hound said something to me that wasn't true. I don't believe hound lied here - he just got it wrong.

Wilts, is it possible that Starmer didn’t know anything about the Raynor question given that Labour were denying for three months that she was at the beer gate gathering?  Could it really be possible that he knew nothing about it.

I have no idea hound. Because he was never asked about it (until very recently).

Did the person who said she wasn't there know? The event was in April 2021 - they were quizzed in January 2022. They might not even have been working for the Labour Party then? Were they on the trip? Were they briefed before talking to the press? Until you know the answers to these questions then you can't say they lied - or they got the answer wrong?

It was poor of the journalists to let them get away with it that's for sure. Because she was quite clearly in Durham with Starmer, so where else would she have been eating?

drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #942 on May 22, 2022, 04:19:00 pm by drfchound »
Wilts,  from The Northern Echo. 

Labour made a “genuine mistake” in denying Angela Rayner was at a campaign event in Durham where Sir Keir Starmer was photographed drinking beer.
That was admission of the party leader when questioned about the issue on Sky News on Sunday today.


But that's not what you said hound:

Murdoch's top political journalist confirms this is correct:

Everyone in Britain still acts as if this was a normal government. Instead it is a project of deliberate destruction, of laws, of institutions, of anything that stands in the way of a PM who just doesn’t want to be held to account

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1527729072398278657

But Keir Starmer had a beer with his dinner.

Mmm, not quite the whole scenario there wilts.
Was it an illegal gathering, he denied at first that his deputy leader was present then suddenly realised there was evidence to prove she was there so he “remembered” that she was.
She is hardly difficult to miss is she.

'he denied at first'

Looks like it is easy for people to make mistakes and get things wrong. Even when they know what actually happened as they saw a tv interview about it.

That doesn't make them liars.

Being present at an event then giving a false account of that event - that's a liar.

Hound said something to me that wasn't true. I don't believe hound lied here - he just got it wrong.

Wilts, is it possible that Starmer didn’t know anything about the Raynor question given that Labour were denying for three months that she was at the beer gate gathering?  Could it really be possible that he knew nothing about it.

I have no idea hound. Because he was never asked about it (until very recently).

Did the person who said she wasn't there know? The event was in April 2021 - they were quizzed in January 2022. They might not even have been working for the Labour Party then? Were they on the trip? Were they briefed before talking to the press? Until you know the answers to these questions then you can't say they lied - or they got the answer wrong?

It was poor of the journalists to let them get away with it that's for sure. Because she was quite clearly in Durham with Starmer, so where else would she have been eating?

Yep, I agree that a minion might have told the press about her not being there and you are right that it was unlikely that Raynor would have eaten elsewhere and I know that you don’t know the answers.
But as leader, I find it hard to believe  that no one told him (Starmer) over a three month period that there was something going on.
He would have had the opportunity much earlier to clear it all up but probably chose not to in the hope that it would all blow over.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #943 on May 22, 2022, 09:04:05 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Wilts,  from The Northern Echo. 

Labour made a “genuine mistake” in denying Angela Rayner was at a campaign event in Durham where Sir Keir Starmer was photographed drinking beer.
That was admission of the party leader when questioned about the issue on Sky News on Sunday today.


But that's not what you said hound:

Murdoch's top political journalist confirms this is correct:

Everyone in Britain still acts as if this was a normal government. Instead it is a project of deliberate destruction, of laws, of institutions, of anything that stands in the way of a PM who just doesn’t want to be held to account

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1527729072398278657

But Keir Starmer had a beer with his dinner.

Mmm, not quite the whole scenario there wilts.
Was it an illegal gathering, he denied at first that his deputy leader was present then suddenly realised there was evidence to prove she was there so he “remembered” that she was.
She is hardly difficult to miss is she.

'he denied at first'

Looks like it is easy for people to make mistakes and get things wrong. Even when they know what actually happened as they saw a tv interview about it.

That doesn't make them liars.

Being present at an event then giving a false account of that event - that's a liar.

Hound said something to me that wasn't true. I don't believe hound lied here - he just got it wrong.

Wilts, is it possible that Starmer didn’t know anything about the Raynor question given that Labour were denying for three months that she was at the beer gate gathering?  Could it really be possible that he knew nothing about it.

I have no idea hound. Because he was never asked about it (until very recently).

Did the person who said she wasn't there know? The event was in April 2021 - they were quizzed in January 2022. They might not even have been working for the Labour Party then? Were they on the trip? Were they briefed before talking to the press? Until you know the answers to these questions then you can't say they lied - or they got the answer wrong?

It was poor of the journalists to let them get away with it that's for sure. Because she was quite clearly in Durham with Starmer, so where else would she have been eating?
And again. The insistence on convincing oneself that Starmer is lying

Labour DIDN'T deny for three months that Rayner was there. A junior staffer in the media team was asked once and got it wrong. Then this wasn't mentioned for three months.

Hardly Watergate, is it?

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #944 on May 22, 2022, 10:38:42 pm by Bentley Bullet »
BST. If Starmer's not a liar, why do you want him to get in power?

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #945 on May 22, 2022, 11:06:14 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Sue Gray and Boris Johnson had private meeting to discuss handling of partygate report, Sky News understands:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1527726289527898113

'impartial investigation'

I thought the report was mostly finished ages ago?  Reviewing the outcome seems entirely appropriate to me, as long as the full report is published.

What is there to review if the full report is to be published?

Clearly the only reason for them to have a meeting is to decide what part of it is NOT going to be published (allegedly the photos that showed Johnson, with beer/wine, at events for which he has not been fined).

Not at all. It may reference him, his staff etc etc.  All of these people are still subject to the same employment rules and regulations as the rest of us, hence sue gray writing to those involved in advance of publication. Its the right thing to do.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #946 on May 22, 2022, 11:12:33 pm by SydneyRover »
Sue Gray and Boris Johnson had private meeting to discuss handling of partygate report, Sky News understands:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1527726289527898113

'impartial investigation'

I thought the report was mostly finished ages ago?  Reviewing the outcome seems entirely appropriate to me, as long as the full report is published.

What is there to review if the full report is to be published?

Clearly the only reason for them to have a meeting is to decide what part of it is NOT going to be published (allegedly the photos that showed Johnson, with beer/wine, at events for which he has not been fined).

Not at all. It may reference him, his staff etc etc. All of these people are still subject to the same employment rules and regulations as the rest of us, hence sue gray writing to those involved in advance of publication. Its the right thing to do.

which 'rest of us' are you talking about pud?

drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #947 on May 22, 2022, 11:33:51 pm by drfchound »
Sue Gray and Boris Johnson had private meeting to discuss handling of partygate report, Sky News understands:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1527726289527898113

'impartial investigation'

I thought the report was mostly finished ages ago?  Reviewing the outcome seems entirely appropriate to me, as long as the full report is published.

What is there to review if the full report is to be published?

Clearly the only reason for them to have a meeting is to decide what part of it is NOT going to be published (allegedly the photos that showed Johnson, with beer/wine, at events for which he has not been fined).

Not at all. It may reference him, his staff etc etc. All of these people are still subject to the same employment rules and regulations as the rest of us, hence sue gray writing to those involved in advance of publication. Its the right thing to do.

which 'rest of us' are you talking about pud?


People in the UK.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #948 on May 23, 2022, 01:48:03 am by SydneyRover »
Maybe if the scrutiny that some football fans want to apply across the game whether it be to other fans, teams. players, finance, equality, policing, penalties, honesty and governance was applied to the leaders of the country and they in turn set an example for society to live up to instead of being looked down upon, it would be a better world ............ just sayin' like.


Ldr

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drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #950 on May 23, 2022, 10:27:58 am by drfchound »
I may have missed this, apologies if has been posted before.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10843173/Boris-Johnson-hating-Barrister-continued-role-Partygate-probe-despite-slew-tweets.html

Left wing, hates Boris Johnson and very anti Brexit.
Is he from Sheffield?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #951 on May 23, 2022, 10:47:06 am by BillyStubbsTears »
BST. If Starmer's not a liar, why do you want him to get in power?

I assume that sounded really witty before you typed it?

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #952 on May 23, 2022, 11:07:05 am by SydneyRover »
Simon Clarke: ''He said the “extraordinary pressure” that No 10 staff were under during the pandemic helped to explain why the Partygate lockdown breaches happened''

It's a good job that health care workers didn't respond to the long hours, pressure, extreme danger and loss of their friends colleagues in the same way.

Michael Rosen has just replied

''Dear Simon Clarke
Heard your int. on radio. Your point about the No 10 parties happening because of the extreme pressure we were under is well made. Compared to us politicos, all the nurses, doctors or families who lost relatives don't know what pressure is.
Vino glorioso
Boris
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 11:15:58 am by SydneyRover »

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #953 on May 23, 2022, 11:45:58 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Sue Gray and Boris Johnson had private meeting to discuss handling of partygate report, Sky News understands:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1527726289527898113

'impartial investigation'

I thought the report was mostly finished ages ago?  Reviewing the outcome seems entirely appropriate to me, as long as the full report is published.

What is there to review if the full report is to be published?

Clearly the only reason for them to have a meeting is to decide what part of it is NOT going to be published (allegedly the photos that showed Johnson, with beer/wine, at events for which he has not been fined).

Not at all. It may reference him, his staff etc etc. All of these people are still subject to the same employment rules and regulations as the rest of us, hence sue gray writing to those involved in advance of publication. Its the right thing to do.

which 'rest of us' are you talking about pud?


People in the UK.

Exactly that. 

On the left wing barrister, no issue at all is it?  It'd be ridiculous to interfere and remove him, he has regulations to abide by more than anything else.

Ldr

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #954 on May 23, 2022, 12:00:36 pm by Ldr »
Simon Clarke: ''He said the “extraordinary pressure” that No 10 staff were under during the pandemic helped to explain why the Partygate lockdown breaches happened''

It's a good job that health care workers didn't respond to the long hours, pressure, extreme danger and loss of their friends colleagues in the same way.

Michael Rosen has just replied

''Dear Simon Clarke
Heard your int. on radio. Your point about the No 10 parties happening because of the extreme pressure we were under is well made. Compared to us politicos, all the nurses, doctors or families who lost relatives don't know what pressure is.
Vino glorioso
Boris


No we coped by choreographing and recording dance routines……

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #955 on May 23, 2022, 12:52:35 pm by wilts rover »

Yep, I agree that a minion might have told the press about her not being there and you are right that it was unlikely that Raynor would have eaten elsewhere and I know that you don’t know the answers.
But as leader, I find it hard to believe  that no one told him (Starmer) over a three month period that there was something going on.
He would have had the opportunity much earlier to clear it all up but probably chose not to in the hope that it would all blow over.

Yes, Labour appear to have a pretty poor Press & Office Staff set-up at the moment, maybe due to the redundancies and people new to the job - or maybe just poor at the job, I dunno, but that story should have been corrected as soon as it was realised it was wrong. That would have stopped it reappearing just before the elections.

I have said before Starmer (and his team) need to get much better at PR and dealing with the media, because they are going to get far more of these slurs from the Tory press as an election draws closer. They need to be able to cope with them far better than they have so far.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #956 on May 23, 2022, 01:34:50 pm by SydneyRover »
And one would think the govt could do a bit better also having had 12 years to get it right

''No 10 admits that Downing Street originally instigated meeting between Sue Gray and PM
This morning Simon Clarke, the chief secretary to the Treasury who was doing the morning interview round on behalf of the government, said he thought Sue Gray had instigated the meeting with Boris Johnson a few weeks ago at which the Partygate report was discussed. (See 9.22am.)''

selby

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #957 on May 23, 2022, 01:57:02 pm by selby »
  Billy sometimes colluding with people to keep their mouth shut, or selective memories are just as devious and truth denying  as lying.
  Barristers and the labour Party leadership in conjunction with the Durham constabulary are very good at both it seems.
  Anyway it looks as if its suited your narrative and you have fallen for it hook line and sinker anyway.
  You and your like have pinned your hopes on a quisling willing to try and  overturn the result of a referendum by the whole of the United Kingdom electorate. how can you ever trust a shithouse like that ever again?

BobG

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #958 on May 23, 2022, 02:08:51 pm by BobG »
Que?

I am confounded....

BobG

danumdon

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #959 on May 23, 2022, 02:43:48 pm by danumdon »
  Billy sometimes colluding with people to keep their mouth shut, or selective memories are just as devious and truth denying  as lying.
  Barristers and the labour Party leadership in conjunction with the Durham constabulary are very good at both it seems.
  Anyway it looks as if its suited your narrative and you have fallen for it hook line and sinker anyway.
  You and your like have pinned your hopes on a quisling willing to try and  overturn the result of a referendum by the whole of the United Kingdom electorate. how can you ever trust a shithouse like that ever again?


True, i'm not sure why anyone would think that these "professional political animals" would be any better because they work for the Labour party. Don't they all go to that same finishing schools?

 

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