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Author Topic: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson  (Read 75850 times)

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wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #810 on April 21, 2022, 10:05:17 pm by wilts rover »
It was facinating to see arch-Brexiter Steve Baker speak so strongly and say Johnson should go today. I wonder what might have caused Baker to turn against him:

https://twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1516458485407432717



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albie

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #811 on April 21, 2022, 10:58:21 pm by albie »
So the Met will not be issuing anymore Partygate fines until after the local Elections. Because to do so might affect people's voting.

Is that how democracy works then? You vote in ignorance of the facts that someone on high decides you shouldn't have?

BST,

I am not sure that this is correct.
The Met are not giving out any details on fines issued, but it seems the whole process has not been suspended.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/21/met-police-delay-updates-on-partygate-fines-until-after-may-local-elections

I have no idea what "the restrictions" the Met refer to actually are.

The idea that investigation and progress reports on criminal acts should be shelved because of local council elections is completely bizarre.

Does anyone know of any precedent for this type of action taken previously by the police?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 11:17:52 pm by albie »

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #812 on April 21, 2022, 11:31:40 pm by SydneyRover »
without fear or favour?

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #813 on April 22, 2022, 04:28:23 am by SydneyRover »
       


                                           Let's get johnson done!

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #814 on April 22, 2022, 02:40:29 pm by normal rules »

So the Met will not be issuing anymore Partygate fines until after the local Elections. Because to do so might affect people's voting.

Is that how democracy works then? You vote in ignorance of the facts that someone on high decides you shouldn't have?

BST,

I am not sure that this is correct.
The Met are not giving out any details on fines issued, but it seems the whole process has not been suspended.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/21/met-police-delay-updates-on-partygate-fines-until-after-may-local-elections

I have no idea what "the restrictions" the Met refer to actually are.

The idea that investigation and progress reports on criminal acts should be shelved because of local council elections is completely bizarre.

Does anyone know of any precedent for this type of action taken previously by the police?

Don’t quote me here, but I suspect the restrictions may be down to the old thing called Purdah. I think it’s now called the “period of heightened sensitivity”. Or similar.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #815 on April 22, 2022, 02:51:58 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
NR.

I get the purdah aspect. Although I'd argue that NOT letting the public know that the PM is a serial criminal offender and liar is at least as much likely to affect voting choices as letting them know. In other words, in this context, choosing to suspend the application of fines is not a passive decision, but a very, very active one.

albie

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #816 on April 22, 2022, 03:40:13 pm by albie »
NR,

I looked at the rules on "purdah" as was, and could not see any specific reference to the police responsibilities:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05262/SN05262.pdf

It looks to me like the rules focus upon local authorities and the PCC function, not on operational matters for the police.

Still not clear what the Met are saying here, so if others know please speak up.
I agree with BST that any action (or no action) impacts the local elections to some degree.

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #817 on April 22, 2022, 04:50:14 pm by wilts rover »
Did someone say purdah?

'Sources say' fines for the party in the Downing Street Garden being given out today.

https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1517519419987136512

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #818 on April 22, 2022, 04:59:16 pm by normal rules »
I think the general populous are in no doubt about Partygate.
One fine or a hundred?
Does it make any difference?
One pint of petrol on the fire, or a gallon?

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #819 on April 22, 2022, 07:26:28 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
I think the general populous are in no doubt about Partygate.
One fine or a hundred?
Does it make any difference?
One pint of petrol on the fire, or a gallon?

It does make a difference: the more fines Johnson gets, the more of a liar to Parliament it shows him to be.

albie

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #820 on April 22, 2022, 10:13:43 pm by albie »
As fines are now going out for the BYOB party he hosted, difficult to see how Bozo is not going to pick one up:
https://news.stv.tv/politics/prime-minister-boris-johnson-not-yet-fined-over-downing-street-byob-garden-party

Death by a thousand cuts this, as he is not man enough to step down!

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #821 on April 22, 2022, 10:51:58 pm by SydneyRover »
I think the general populous are in no doubt about Partygate.
One fine or a hundred?
Does it make any difference?
One pint of petrol on the fire, or a gallon?

would this be your view on all offences NR?

There is a argument for him to be charged with more serious offences surely, and under normal circumstance unless a person asks for other offences to be taken into consideration then a greater sentence or fine can be given.

Imagine the police dealing with 12 instances of breaking the same law in a single household for an ordinary citizen?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2022, 11:03:57 pm by SydneyRover »

normal rules

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #822 on April 22, 2022, 11:27:50 pm by normal rules »
I think the general populous are in no doubt about Partygate.
One fine or a hundred?
Does it make any difference?
One pint of petrol on the fire, or a gallon?

would this be your view on all offences NR?

There is a argument for him to be charged with more serious offences surely, and under normal circumstance unless a person asks for other offences to be taken into consideration then a greater sentence or fine can be given.

Imagine the police dealing with 12 instances of breaking the same law in a single household for an ordinary citizen?

It happens all the time.
Take burglary for instance.
I know many cases where a burglar has admitted say 20 different crimes.
He is charged with one and the other 19 are TIC, or taken into account.
And it’s made little or no difference to sentencing.

On the ladder of criminality, breach of covid regs is at the bottom. Partygate aggravates them because of the political aspect of course. Interestingly, there has been no mention of admissions in all of this. Johnson has accepted the fine, which implies an admission of guilt. Now had he come out from the off and owned them all, then tic might have come into play. But these are summary only offences we are talking about. Like littering.

A liar is a liar though. Once or a hundred times. No question.

albie

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #823 on April 22, 2022, 11:36:32 pm by albie »
Basically, Johnson has 2 weeks left.

Once the local elections are done on May 5, the letters of no confidence will go in to Brady and the 1922 Committee, and Bozo will be made to walk the plank.

He can save some local council seats by standing down early, but his narcissism will get in the way.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #824 on April 22, 2022, 11:38:47 pm by SydneyRover »
NR, you have to admit your crimes to have them taken into consideration and he could quite easily have been charged for running a disorderly house or worse.

This will be the third time he has been sacked for lying.

Twice before people voted for him as PM. you get the politicians you deserve.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 12:15:45 am by SydneyRover »

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #825 on April 22, 2022, 11:43:07 pm by SydneyRover »
Albie, I think right at the death he will walk rather than have the ignominy of of a stain, then of course he will spend the rest of his life denying he was pushed.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #826 on April 23, 2022, 12:24:29 am by BillyStubbsTears »
The point is NR, Johnson's defence against the birthday cake fine is that he was only there for 9 mins and the "party" only included workmates he was already working with. Of course that implies that his missus's home designer was a key work colleague because she was there as well. But no matter. We've seen from responses in here that some people have so little ability to see through bullshit like this that they are prepared to swallow that line.

It is a different matter altogether if the Met concludes that he was complicit in the BYOB knees up. I struggle to see how even Johnson could concoct an excuse to that one that anyone could honestly buy into.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #827 on April 23, 2022, 12:44:00 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Daniel Hannan this week
https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1517086649741684738

Daniel Hannan three years back.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LiveFromBrexit/status/1517089610316324864

One thing that's consistent about the Brexit coup leaders. They restart history and their basic beliefs every time it suits them to do so.

Still. All the same, aren't they?

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #828 on April 23, 2022, 01:38:55 am by SydneyRover »
A spokes for the party said:

'we will overlook all the lying, law breaking, cronyism and incompetence if we do well in the local elections'

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #829 on April 23, 2022, 08:12:01 am by SydneyRover »
Another report into Russian influence in the UK goes missing and the government saying to Putin yep we saw what you did in the Crimea and then in Salisbury but what the hell ................

Sun 9 Sep 2018

''The right of more than 700 wealthy Russians to live in the UK is under review as the government mulls new ways of curtailing the power and influence of the Kremlin following the Salisbury poisonings.''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/09/home-office-review-wealthy-russian-investor-visas

Fri 22 Apr 2022

''Seven Russians now under sanctions were awarded controversial “golden visas” by the UK after Vladimir Putin’s regime first invaded Ukraine in 2014, the government has admitted.''

''The government revealed that 10 Russians who received golden visas are now subject to sanctions, an increase from the eight previously admitted, in a written answer to a question from Stephen Kinnock, Labour’s shadow immigration minister.''


''Spotlight on Corruption said the latest revelation made it even more urgent that the government release a 2018 report on the golden visa scheme. A minister last month committed to publish it, but the government has not yet done so.''

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/apr/22/russians-sanctioned-uk-given-golden-visas-ukraine-invasion



ravenrover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #830 on April 23, 2022, 09:57:56 am by ravenrover »
The point is NR, Johnson's defence against the birthday cake fine is that he was only there for 9 mins and the "party" only included workmates he was already working with. Of course that implies that his missus's home designer was a key work colleague because she was there as well. But no matter. We've seen from responses in here that some people have so little ability to see through bullshit like this that they are prepared to swallow that line.

It is a different matter altogether if the Met concludes that he was complicit in the BYOB knees up. I struggle to see how even Johnson could concoct an excuse to that one that anyone could honestly buy into.
You mention the interior designer, but what about Carrie Antoinette, is she authorised to wander round the offices in No10 during the working day?

Filo

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #831 on April 23, 2022, 10:36:23 am by Filo »
The point is NR, Johnson's defence against the birthday cake fine is that he was only there for 9 mins and the "party" only included workmates he was already working with. Of course that implies that his missus's home designer was a key work colleague because she was there as well. But no matter. We've seen from responses in here that some people have so little ability to see through bullshit like this that they are prepared to swallow that line.

It is a different matter altogether if the Met concludes that he was complicit in the BYOB knees up. I struggle to see how even Johnson could concoct an excuse to that one that anyone could honestly buy into.
You mention the interior designer, but what about Carrie Antoinette, is she authorised to wander round the offices in No10 during the working day?

No she lives in the flat at No. 11

ravenrover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #832 on April 23, 2022, 01:06:31 pm by ravenrover »
My point exactly Filo

mugnapper

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #833 on April 24, 2022, 12:53:48 pm by mugnapper »
Tory party whips telling Backbenchers not to be 'spooked' if Johnson gets a £10k fine for the party held after Cummings resigned.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #834 on April 24, 2022, 01:32:45 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
Tory party whips telling Backbenchers not to be 'spooked' if Johnson gets a £10k fine for the party held after Cummings resigned.

Weren't the £10K fines for people who organised illegal gatherings..?

albie

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #835 on April 24, 2022, 01:40:48 pm by albie »
Yes Glyn, I think that is right!

Meanwhile, Sky are reporting further trouble for the political elites:
https://news.sky.com/story/three-conservative-cabinet-ministers-referred-to-watchdog-over-sexual-misconduct-allegations-report-12597632

What a crew!


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #837 on April 24, 2022, 04:00:21 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Disgusting isn't it? But it'll play with some people.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #838 on April 24, 2022, 05:45:04 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
It says more about what some people think about Boris though.

danumdon

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #839 on April 24, 2022, 07:31:08 pm by danumdon »
https://news.sky.com/story/angela-rayner-condemns-sexist-and-misogynistic-mail-on-sunday-article-claiming-tory-mps-accuse-her-of-basic-instinct-ploy-to-distract-pm-12597729

How desperate are the Tories to deflect/distract ??

I must admit i'd be distracted if i had to eye skanky ginger beaver across the dispatch box.

Sounds like a pitiful effort by some Johnson supporters but intriguing at the same time as it gives you a window into how these morons think.

 

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