Maybe this will help restore faith and pride in the police.

[SydneyRover]

''Police officers should work under ‘licence’ to restore trust – report for England and Wales
Review contains 56 recommendations urging reforms to culture, training and structure''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/07/police-officers-should-work-under-licence-to-restore-trust-report-for-england-and-wales

[drfchound]

They are not all the same.

[SydneyRover]

correct, there are different ideas but I though these were good ones

[normal rules]

How on earth would being licensed change anything?
Bear in mind the monster that killed Sarah Everard had to go through a selection process, interviews and assessments to get the job.
Any amount of licensing or layered beaurocracy will not stop monsters like him from hiding.
Just like nurses and doctors that kill people.
Or anyone other walk of life for that matter.
What next? Licensing teachers, or magistrates or members of the clergy? All professions where pedophiles have been hidden.

[SydneyRover]

How on earth would being licensed change anything?
Bear in mind the monster that killed Sarah Everard had to go through a selection process, interviews and assessments to get the job.
Any amount of licensing or layered beaurocracy will not stop monsters like him from hiding.
Just like nurses and doctors that kill people.
Or anyone other walk of life for that matter.
What next? Licensing teachers, or magistrates or members of the clergy? All professions where pedophiles have been hidden.

what do you think would work NR, and I don't presume to know where you sit on this but do you think there are problems with the force that affects it's crime fighting abilities as there are some quite serious people that do. The problems as with all problem cannot be fixed unless that is accepted.

The police enjoy a special position within society where they are the ones that people turn to when in need and they have special powers invested in them to accomplish that, therefore when the system doesn't work and bad ones remain or remain and are promoted one can see why many say it is time for change.

Your comment above reads like you don't think there is a problem.

[normal rules]

There are problems within policing for sure. Just like there is every profession.
There are good, bad and indifferent in every walk of life.
The Sarah Everard case was utterly tragic. These cases are very very rare. They should not happen at all of course.

In rural Lincolnshire I believe the police still enjoy a very good relationship with the communities they police. And that has not been a given. It’s been earned through years of policing in, and with, its community.
You only have to look at the Lincs police Facebook page to see that,

Every force in the UK has its own unique issues for their own areas, be it multiculturalism, diversity, or lack of funding issues etc.  The Met is a unique organisation in itself. It is a very big area to police with many many areas of policing. It is for that reason they have been widely regarded as one of the easier forces to get into because there is always a shortage of staff so they can afford to lower the bar so to speak. They cannot afford to pick and choose like a rural force can.

When I joined in 1999 ( retired now) there were 600 applicants for 12 jobs.
They struggle to get 50 applicants for 12 jobs now.

My overall take of police, policing and the public is they will never be popular. No one likes being policed, be that getting a speeding ticket or summonsed to court or worse still arrested. The Police in the uk have been getting hammered over the years because they are not popular. It’s getting worse too, so the Sarah Everard case which was rightly very high profile, becomes even more intensely so. And the questions being asked now are a direct fallout of that.
We will never stop people like him IMO. He was a calculated, determined predator.
If he wasn’t in the police, he could have been an ambulance driver, or a trucker.

[SydneyRover]

You start by saying there are problems but then at the end say it's something to do with popularity??

look at an issue I mentioned, bad police being allowed to stay in the force and some of them gaining promotion. This unfortunately puts police in the position of being protected and does nothing to change that particular aspect. How do you think that effects new recruits?

[normal rules]

You could argue we have a very similar issue with the Current government. A thread I’m sure you would be an exponent of . You only need to look at the roll call in the current HOC to see there are people in there who perhaps should never be allowed near Westminster, let alone in the HOC.
There is a lot of criticism being levelled at Priti Patel, she is the ultimate boss of the Police being Home Secretary. Accused of being a bully in the past?  Perhaps she should not be where she is . But she is .

There will always be people wanting to join the police.
New recruits have very little knowledge, experience or interest in what goes on higher up the food chain. They just want a job. And I believe the police is still one that attracts some people to it. Just not like it used to.
And we are now in a situation where we have uni leavers going straight in at Inspector level, and direct entry into CID roles. Both of which I have my own opinion on.

There are many hoops you have to jump through to become a police officer these days. Fitness. Reading tests, writing tests, cognitive assessments, role play exercises, group exercises, interviews, exams. The list goes on.
Every single one of them can be done and passed by someone who deep down may house deviant, violent thoughts.
I’m not sure any amount of licensing, assessments or otherwise can cater for, or prevent these people from getting a job.
The HR bods that rule across huge swathes of our nations workforce call it Inclusivity I believe.

[SydneyRover]

It appears you want to discuss anything and everything but the topic, which tells me you don't accept there is a problem, am I correct?

[drfchound]

Oh dear? It looks to me like NR has very clearly explained his position with this subject but it also us evident that you are looking for an argument SR or at the very least, looking for someone to engage with to give you something to do.

[SydneyRover]

Oh dear? It looks to me like NR has very clearly explained his position with this subject but it also us evident that you are looking for an argument SR or at the very least, looking for someone to engage with to give you something to do.

I certainly wouldn't to you for one if I did hound, as I would be unsure as to whom you were speaking for.

[normal rules]

I made my point very clearly. The very first line.

There are problems within policing for sure.
Is that not clear enough?

What I don’t have are the answers.
I don’t feel licensing is the answer though.
Some things you cannot legislate for, or avoid. Sadly.
It’s as simple as that. IMO. And I had 22 years at it.

[drfchound]

I made my point very clearly. The very first line.

There are problems within policing for sure.
Is that not clear enough?

What I don’t have are the answers.
I don’t feel licensing is the answer though.
Some things you cannot legislate for, or avoid. Sadly.
It’s as simple as that. IMO. And I had 22 years at it.

There you go Syd. As clear as a big bag of clear things.

[SydneyRover]

''How on earth would being licensed change anything?''

It would go a long way to weeding out those that give the rest of the force a bad name. As I implied keeping the bad apples spoils the barrel.

[SydneyRover]

I made my point very clearly. The very first line.

There are problems within policing for sure.
Is that not clear enough?

What I don’t have are the answers.
I don’t feel licensing is the answer though.
Some things you cannot legislate for, or avoid. Sadly.
It’s as simple as that. IMO. And I had 22 years at it.

There you go Syd. As clear as a big bag of clear things.

As usual hound you don't speak for yourself.

[drfchound]

Syd he also explained why he thought licensing wouldn’t make a lot of difference. You should read what is written, not what you want people to write.

[SydneyRover]

Syd he also explained why he thought licensing wouldn’t make a lot of difference. You should read what is written, not what you want people to write.

still hiding behind other's comments hound, why not use your own voice?

[drfchound]

Wtf are you on about? I am using my voice to support NR against your ridiculous argument that he isn’t making himself clear.
You have already forgotten that I said they (the police officers) are not all the same.
Why can’t you understand?

[SydneyRover]

Wtf are you on about? I am using my voice to support NR against your ridiculous argument that he isn’t making himself clear.
You have already forgotten that I said they (the police officers) are not all the same.
Why can’t you understand?

And think I have made myself clear, I'm not debating a topic through a third party, namely you.

[normal rules]

The average door person down the local nightclub is SIA licensed/ registered.
It doesn’t stop some of them being out right violent bullies.

I’d like to see the last PDR ( that’s an annual report) for Wayne Couzens. I bet you there is nothing on there to suggest he was a violent predator.

It’s like vetting checks . They are not fool proof. Or DBS checks for that matter (the old CRB) they rely heavily on honesty and trust.

The proposed licensing scheme is based around work related job evaluation. Pass an interview. Do an exam. Tick a few boxes. There is nothing about psychometric testing or having feedback from peers or managers about an officers ability to do a job and be safe around members of the public.
Quite frankly, it would be seen as a beaurocratic exercise. A box ticking event. And it won’t stop another Wayne Couzens event.
If it helps grow confidence in the Police then whoopy do. It will be claimed as a raging success by the govt. well done everyone. Home for tea and medals.

[drfchound]

I was the first to respond but you will have forgotten that.   Fourth can probably.
Anyway I getting off your hook now. Things to do back here in the uk.

[SydneyRover]

NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.

[normal rules]

NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.

The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.

[SydneyRover]

I have as the first to respond but you will have forgotten that.   Fourth can probably.
Anyway I getting off your hook now. Things to do back here in the uk.

I tried to give you credit with your first comment but was wrong it appears you are silly enough to think that all people are the same, debate the points or stick the dummy back in.

[normal rules]

I’d be interested SR in your take on the state of policing currently in Aus. And any experiences you have had good and bad. If at all.
I’m assuming policing on the other side of the world has similar issues.

[SydneyRover]

NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.

The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.

I don't know of course but I would imagine that it would be an assessment of competency and record to see if they are good enough to continue that they themselves are happy and are getting the right support and if any discipline issues that may have occurred have been dealt with to satisfy the the 'whomever' that they are fit to serve the people. I personally as you are no doubt aware do not have any problems with this type of assessment provided that officers are treated with respect and have rights to appeal and so forth.

[normal rules]

NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.

The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.

I don't know of course but I would imagine that it would be an assessment of competency and record to see if they are good enough to continue that they themselves are happy and are getting the right support and if any discipline issues that may have occurred have been dealt with to satisfy the the 'whomever' that they are fit to serve the people. I personally as you are no doubt aware do not have any problems with this type of assessment provided that officers are treated with respect and have rights to appeal and so forth.

There is a system already in place that mirrors this. It’s called the PDR process. Professional development review.
Wayne Couzens would have been subject to this process for the years he served. 
I’m concerned that any new licensing would be the PDR process under a different name.I cannot see it being anything else.

[SydneyRover]

I’d be interested SR in your take on the state of policing currently in Aus. And any experiences you have had good and bad. If at all.
I’m assuming policing on the other side of the world has similar issues.

There are problems with racism within the force and there are good and bad coppers of course. Australia has been in the past a bit of a wild west where police were politicised and were an extension of the government. Queensland under premier Joh Bejelke-Petersen was a virtual police state for many years and NSW only a couple of decades ago some police were in league with the worst crims in town. Vic police are now going through an inquiry to find out why they used a lawyer that represented major criminals as a snout. A lot of major crims will get off because of this. There's plenty online about it all. In needs constant vigilance to maintain a good balance. I would like to see police work being an arm of the community, sorting out small problems before they grow.

I have been involved in activism for various projects since retiring from full time work and and have come across both good and bad police.

[SydneyRover]

NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.

The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.

I don't know of course but I would imagine that it would be an assessment of competency and record to see if they are good enough to continue that they themselves are happy and are getting the right support and if any discipline issues that may have occurred have been dealt with to satisfy the the 'whomever' that they are fit to serve the people. I personally as you are no doubt aware do not have any problems with this type of assessment provided that officers are treated with respect and have rights to appeal and so forth.

There is a system already in place that mirrors this. It’s called the PDR process. Professional development review.
Wayne Couzens would have been subject to this process for the years he served. 
I’m concerned that any new licensing would be the PDR process under a different name.I cannot see it being anything else.

Then it needs to be different, you must have read all the reports regarding Lawrence, undercover coppers in relationships with activist, Hillsborough etc, it just goes on and on till it's sorted, it requires sorting.

[normal rules]

Do u mind me asking what you did for a living ?