Godwin's Second Law

[danumdon]

Sydney
A direct lift

Indeed, despite the 2008-09 recession taking place on Labour’s watch, the party has only overseen seven quarters of recession in the past 100 years compared to 17 under the Conservatives''

I don’t need to justify my thoughts and I think I can definitely say I don’t need you to help me

Once again as usual you try to put a twist on everything

If you really think any other government could have handled the likes of COVID any better then that’s your opinion

Irrelevant of how anyone voted Brexit was basically held up by people who wouldn’t accept the result but were happy to accept the options on the ballot paper until they lost

I was only referring to 'help you' in terms of answering your question phil .............

Yes labour managed the economy in terms of response to the gfc better than most other countries in the world.

Brexit, yes the tories need help after they decided to go for the worst economic outcome possible.

National Insurance, the government has already made it's intentions quite clear I would think, don't you?

''Middle-income earners ‘to be hit hardest’ by national insurance rise. Workers on £30,000 to £50,000 will pay higher percentage of salary than those on £100,000, figures reveal''

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jan/28/middle-income-earners-hit-hardest-national-insurance-higher-percentage-uk-rishi-sunak

As far as giving them a break ffs they created their own bunch of oligarchs during the pandemic by doing the same as their sponsors the Russians, no sympathy from me along those lines.

So starting with Austerity that hamstrung the economy to brexit which has cost and will cost into the distant future and everything in between I'm not sure what you expect phil.

You didn't say where and why Starmer said spend spend spend, without context it doesn't mean anything.

Selective stats again to try to reinforce your own agenda,

''Middle-income earners ‘to be hit hardest’ by national insurance rise. Workers on £30,000 to £50,000 will pay higher percentage of salary than those on £100,000, figures reveal''

So someone on £100,000 who pays twice as much as someone on £30,000 (approx ave wage) is in your view not paying enough NI to the treasury because the percentage of their wage is at a lower figure, even though he is paying more??

Are these the politics of envy from someone who wants someone else to pay for his and his pals lifestyles??

[phil old leake]

Billy I wasn’t saying you were making anything up.

Shall we just leave it we are in disagreement

[BillyStubbsTears]

Phil.
"How you know what Cameron was taught I don’t know" read to me as "I don't believe you". But if you're telling me I'm wrong, I'm happy to accept that.

[danumdon]

Maybe you should have a look and compare how labour governments performed on an economic basis especially immediately following the GFC.

''These differences are not statistically significant, but the discrepancy between mean and median hints at the presence of outliers of particularly strong or weak quarters in the data that are skewing the mean averages. In fact, Labour have achieved a higher concentration of quarters of positive growth than the Conservatives. Indeed, despite the 2008-09 recession taking place on Labour’s watch, the party has only overseen seven quarters of recession in the past 100 years compared to 17 under the Conservatives''

https://theconversation.com/labour-are-much-better-at-running-the-economy-than-voters-think-new-research-162368

More selective facts to make your weak statement stand up, when it does not,

 Labour have achieved a higher concentration of quarters of positive growth than the Conservatives. Indeed, despite the 2008-09 recession taking place on Labour’s watch, the party has only overseen seven quarters of recession in the past 100 years compared to 17 under the Conservatives.

A totally meaningless stat,when you consider the labour party has only been in government for 27 of the last 100 years and when you consider that the other lots tenure has usually been after labour have spent everyone's money again.  So you have now possibly excelled in your false stat farce.

[danumdon]

Very few would argue the the NHS doesn't need more funds but

''Figures produced by the Tax Calculator UK website show those earning £100,000 a year will pay just 7% of their overall salary in national insurance contributions (NICs) – the same proportion of their income as someone on £20,000 a year''

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jan/28/middle-income-earners-hit-hardest-national-insurance-higher-percentage-uk-rishi-sunak

I should of known better, he's at it again!!

''Figures produced by the Tax Calculator UK website show those earning £100,000 a year will pay just 7% of their overall salary in national insurance contributions (NICs) – the same proportion of their income as someone on £20,000 a year''

So your still banging on that someone who pays over twice as much NH needs to pay more?

Does that individual not pay enough for you into the pot when you also take his higher rate tax contribution in account ?

These lefty types want everyone to be relieved of their hard earned so it can be given away ,

WHY, we are not communists or crazy socialists, take away aspiration from the workforce and i will give you a ruined commie state that this joker wants.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I love the level of political argument from people on the right.

1) You have no evidence to back up what you're saying. So I'm not going to believe you.
2) Ok you have provided evidence but you're just cherry picking to suit your argument. So I'm not going to believe you.
3) It's not my job to provide counter evidence. I'm going to trust my instinct that you're wrong and not believe you.
4) Whatever you say, Labour always spends other people's money, so there.
5) Why don't you just go and live in Russia?

[danumdon]

No tax income can be red circled.

It's being done this way because the key Tory constituency (well off people who don't work) contribute precisely f**k all to NI.

So could these well of people who could be pensioners who have paid a higher rate of tax and Ni all their working life's be the ones who "don't contribute anything" when in fact they could have paid more that the feckless ever pay in a lifetime of wasted existence.

And before you get on your high horse fella I'm not talking about the genuinely needy.

[danumdon]

Phil.

It is the biggest myth in politics that the last Labour Govt had its good times based on unsustainable borrowing. It's absolutely and demonstrably untrue. Before the Global Financial Crisis hit, Govt debt under Labour was less than it had been under Thatcher and Major. It was only when the global crisis hit that debt went up. As it should.

You can and SHOULD use Government borrowing to pull yourself out of a recession. That has been textbook economic theory for 90 years. Industry is on its knees and can't invest. People get laid off. So they cut back their expenditure. So there's even less demand for products. So Industry gets even more hammered. Vicious circle. The solution is that Govt should borrow money and pour it into the economy to get the motor firing again. Govt debt incurred doing this doesn't matter. The crucial thing is to get the economy back on its feet. THEN Govt can reduce spending and get higher tax income, reducing the debt over decades.

Cameron was taught that at Cambridge. He chose to ignore it when the Global Financial Crisis occurred, because he saw beating Labour up over the debt that resulted was his path to No10.

It was truly that opportunistic.

The economics profession is pretty much unified in agreeing that the Austerity that Cameron and Osborne brought in was a catastrophe. It depressed economic growth for years. It depressed wages for over a decade. Ironically, the annoyance and bitterness it caused led directly to the rise of Farage (who did what right wing demagogues have done in every downturn - told people it was foreigners to blame). That resulted in the Brexit vote and the end of Cameron's career. But the permanent economic damage had already been done. By a man who consciously went against everything he'd been educated to do, to advance his own career. It's no exaggeration to say that we have lost something up to £1trn of economic activity, directly because of that decision.

Would this be the same labour government who saddles us, our kids and their kids with a lifetimes subscription to "PFI"


If your saying that is good governance then god help this country because its a toss up between the feckless and the  Fu8king liars, what a choice to have,

No wonder your buddy did one to Aus, why is he still spouting crap here??

[phil old leake]

Billy I haven’t got a clue what he studied. I think I’m being lost in translation
I was saying let’s just agree to disagree about this subject
I’m sure there’ll be tunings we might agree on at some point

[BillyStubbsTears]

DD
This is feeling like being cornered by the golf club bore.

1) Did I agree with PFI? No.

2) Is that remotely as big a mistake of economic policy as Austerity? No. It'slike comparing burning your finger to shooting your kneecaps off.

[danumdon]

I love the level of political argument from people on the right.

1) You have no evidence to back up what you're saying. So I'm not going to believe you.
2) Ok you have provided evidence but you're just cherry picking to suit your argument. So I'm not going to believe you.
3) It's not my job to provide counter evidence. I'm going to trust my instinct that you're wrong and not believe you.
4) Whatever you say, Labour always spends other people's money, so there.
5) Why don't you just go and live in Russia?

Think we've had this conversation before fella,

In not on the right or of the right, i like most in the country will do all for my family in the first instance and then i will look after the needy,

What i wont do is give any truck to lefty ideals that bankrupt the nation, kill all aspiring peoples wishes and ideals for the sake of wanting to be a right on lefty,

Most people just want to get on with their life's made very much harder by pathetic governments from both ends of the political spectrum.

To me theirs not a great deal between a lying scumbag who robs you blind and spends your hard earned on his cronies to another scumbag who bleats he will not rob you but does just the same and then pretends to give it to the poor, needy and also the feckless.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And with that, I'm bowing out of this discussion BB. It had the possibility of being an intelligent exchange but you've turned it into Labour Insult Bingo.

[danumdon]

DD
This is feeling like being cornered by the golf club bore.

Now you have made me chuckle,  you've been doing that for the last 20 years, carry on BST.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No offence taken I hope.

[danumdon]

No offence taken I hope.

None taken here.

[drfchound]

No tax income can be red circled.

It's being done this way because the key Tory constituency (well off people who don't work) contribute precisely f**k all to NI.

So could these well of people who could be pensioners who have paid a higher rate of tax and Ni all their working life's be the ones who "don't contribute anything" when in fact they could have paid more that the feckless ever pay in a lifetime of wasted existence.

And before you get on your high horse fella I'm not talking about the genuinely needy.

Have I mentioned how much he despises pensioners.
I certainly paid more than my fair share of 40% income tax but he thinks I shouldn’t get my pension.

[danumdon]

I actually think I will be robbed of any pension from the state when I retire, the qualifying date is going to rise again shortly, at this rate if we don’t get it before we leave this place we will be swindled out of it by a greedy Tory party that will just nick it or a dodgy Labour Party that will means test you out of it if you earn more then 10bob a week.

I suppose they can then give it to someone who really needs it, no one cares how much you contributed during your lifetime of graft. This is what we all have to look forward to with either of these political parties, hardly a shoot of green grass between them.

[SydneyRover]

I actually think I will be robbed of any pension from the state when I retire, the qualifying date is going to rise again shortly, at this rate if we don’t get it before we leave this place we will be swindled out of it by a greedy Tory party that will just nick it or a dodgy Labour Party that will means test you out of it if you earn more then 10bob a week.

I suppose they can then give it to someone who really needs it, no one cares how much you contributed during your lifetime of graft. This is what we all have to look forward to with either of these political parties, hardly a shoot of green grass between them.

The tory party is renowned for looking after its own so some will be in luck, or you could register with OOB Oligarchs of Britain and out your hand up for a hand out and a contract.

''I will help with costs where I can, says Chancellor Rishi Sunak''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60812549

[Sprotyrover]

Don't you worry your curly haired head about it Sydders, just remember you are an  Aussie now! And a danger to yourself and small pets!

[SydneyRover]

Don't you worry your curly haired head about it Sydders, just remember you are an  Aussie now! And a danger to yourself and small pets!

So now you have read Sunak's face palm, who was correct the spot from sprot or Sydders?

[danumdon]

I actually think I will be robbed of any pension from the state when I retire, the qualifying date is going to rise again shortly, at this rate if we don’t get it before we leave this place we will be swindled out of it by a greedy Tory party that will just nick it or a dodgy Labour Party that will means test you out of it if you earn more then 10bob a week.

I suppose they can then give it to someone who really needs it, no one cares how much you contributed during your lifetime of graft. This is what we all have to look forward to with either of these political parties, hardly a shoot of green grass between them.

The tory party is renowned for looking after its own so some will be in luck, or you could register with OOB Oligarchs of Britain and out your hand up for a hand out and a contract.

''I will help with costs where I can, says Chancellor Rishi Sunak''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60812549

No worries here buddy i can fend for myself with out Sunak' help

I'm sure you could trawl the Aussie rags and register for "expats with borderline tendencies missing the rain in blighty" you could finally be the star turn.

[SydneyRover]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/feb/28/lismore-flooding-before-and-after-pictures-show-the-full-scale-of-disaster