truss

[ravenrover]

Tory (or ex-Tory before Johnson purged him) David Gaulke has had the sort of far-thinkinh idea that we need in this situation.

If Johnson gets elected, Starmer and the LD leader whose name I can never remember should reach out to right-minded Tory MPs.

Say to them, we know that you know that this idiot is going to be a disaster. We know you're hanging on for the sake of your party. But that doesn't help the country.

Join us in a VONC to bring Johnson down and force a GE. In recognition, we will not put up a candidate against any of you with 10k+ majorities.


That's the level of turmoil we are in.

If that doesn't happen, and Johnson does form a Govt, Starmer should call a VONC on Day One. Get the Tories who support the return of that disgrace of a man to formally record their support for the history books.

No hiding place. If you don't formally oppose Johnson, you own his disaster.

Reach out and join them? Much as they did last time, even the 148 who voted no confidence in the Tory internal VOC voted for him in the Parliamentary VONC, what makes you think things have changed?
Also should Johnson win the PM vote this time he can table a motion to have the Priviliges Committee investigation to cease with a majority vote in Parliament

[Branton Red]

This country is broken. I totally agree.
But. We are broken because of ALL of those people who reckon they represent ‘us’.
Our parliament us a total f**k up, from PM to Shadow PM, from left backbencher to right.
Starmer will win the next election, and for what?

As a nation, and a generation, we are just f**ked.
I am truly sorry for what I will leave my children to deal with.

We're heading for a recession which will arrive sooner and be deeper than it should have been due to recent Tory shenanigans. 2023 is going to be a very tough year for lots of folk.

But..... this is not something the UK will be suffering in isolation. The majority of Western democracies will suffer similarly if not more.

The fundamentals of the UK economy are still comparatively strong compared to many other similar countries (look at Italy for instance)

The UK economy is too small to be immune from global economic headwinds

However from 2024, assuming no further global crises, there is no reason why, with inflation under control, interest rates stabilised and with sensible governing, the UK shouldn't have a comparatively strong recovery and have an economically successful 2nd half of this decade.

I'm quietly confident in this country's middle and longer term economic prospects.

[scawsby steve]

Sky News saying that Boris will get the 100, and when it's put to the membership, all the signs are that he'll trounce Sunak.

Don't shoot the messenger.

[SydneyRover]

Did sky say how they knew Steve?

[wilts rover]

Apparently Johnson and Sunak had a meeting this evening. I doubt very much if they were discussing what position Johnson would have in a Sunak government.

[scawsby steve]

Did sky say how they knew Steve?

What a f*cking stupid question.

You just get worse.

[SydneyRover]

Did sky say how they knew Steve?

What a f*cking stupid question.

You just get worse.

there is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people aye Steve, the Guardian is only using numbers from those that have pledged support, as I asked what is Sky using?

[scawsby steve]

Did sky say how they knew Steve?

What a f*cking stupid question.

You just get worse.

there is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people aye Steve, the Guardian is only using numbers from those that have pledged support, as I asked what is Sky using?

Exactly the same, those that have pledged support, however, seeing as Sky have excellent journalists like Beth Rigby, Sophie Ridge, Jon Craig, and many more, with their ears close to the ground in Westminster, they know exactly what's happening behind the scenes.

There's not even any guarantee that Boris will go through with it yet.

[SydneyRover]

Apology accepted, did they name them or is it a secret?

[Colin C No.3]

Sydney. Have you ever been down to a billabong?

[SydneyRover]

This should keep you amused for a while Col

https://australian.museum/exhibition/sharks/

[ChrisBx]

I don't believe that Johnson has many more than 70 nominations at this stage.

[Donnywolf]

If there are 360 ish and we have theoretical 121, 56 and 27 it's a long way to that 360

Where are the Bravermans and Shapps ?

Wonder if lots of the MPs will not pledge for any Candidate ?

Wonder if MPs have the guts to resign the Whip and immediately become Independent MPs

I saw a supposed offer to those with 10000 + majority's that did cross the Chamber that they would go unchallenged in the GE they would theoretically have "forced"

As Derek & Clive said so many years ago (but very apt)  " is this any way to run a f*****g Ballroom"

[wilts rover]

Exactly 0 chance of that offer being true Wolfie.

Even if Labour & Lib Dems didnt stand, Greens, Reform and other independents would - and they would mosst likely loose. Labour voters woud never vote for them - and Tory voters would be unlikely to as they would be the 'traitors' who brought the party down.

They would have to defect to have a chance of staying on.

[ravenrover]

If there are 360 ish and we have theoretical 121, 56 and 27 it's a long way to that 360

Where are the Bravermans and Shapps ?

Wonder if lots of the MPs will not pledge for any Candidate ?

Wonder if MPs have the guts to resign the Whip and immediately become Independent MPs

I saw a supposed offer to those with 10000 + majority's that did cross the Chamber that they would go unchallenged in the GE they would theoretically have "forced"

As Derek & Clive said so many years ago (but very apt)  " is this any way to run a f*****g Ballroom"

Roger Gayle said last night he would resign the whip if Piglet was re elected

[ncRover]

If it’s Sunak v Starmer in 2024 it doesn’t matter to anyone who wins out of them 2. Just the winning side.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If it’s Sunak v Starmer in 2024 it doesn’t matter to anyone who wins out of them 2. Just the winning side.

This is the sort of nonsense that has put us in this energy crisis.

One example of why it is nonsense.

Labour has a detailed plan for investment in the zero carbon energy approach that we need.

Sunak presided over a long term Tory policy of not even supporting home insulation.

On a more economically fundamental issue, Labour is committed to a neo-Keynesian approach which includes Govt borrowing to invest in productive capacity. Sunak had repeatedly said that his priority is paying back the debt. That is a profound difference of approach. Anyone who hadn't realised that over the past decade and a half had been living under a rock.

This "they're all the same so there's no point" line is THE most idle political comment anyone can come out with. And it is dangerous. Be sure it clears the path for the beguiling voices of extremists who promise something (anything) different.

[SydneyRover]

The problem with sunak although he may be a steadier hand his experience was as chancellor not as leader which begs the question would he allow a new chancellor the freedom to do their job or would he 'know better'

The tory party is far from a united team and carry a lot of baggage, they have been in an uncivil war for so long would they be capable putting the knives away or in each other.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd hoped for a bit better from Chris Mason after he replaced that disaster Kuenssberg as the BBC Political Editor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1583818749647687680

Looks like he's another one that sees his job as tweeting whatever message Johnson wants to put out.

Why doesn't he preface that with "We know from bitter experience that Johnson is barely on nodding terms with the truth, but...:

[SydneyRover]

johnson is like one of those bladeless fan thingy's that reputedly generate more air by 'looking good'

[ncRover]

If it’s Sunak v Starmer in 2024 it doesn’t matter to anyone who wins out of them 2. Just the winning side.

This is the sort of nonsense that has put us in this energy crisis.

One example of why it is nonsense.

Labour has a detailed plan for investment in the zero carbon energy approach that we need.

Sunak presided over a long term Tory policy of not even supporting home insulation.

On a more economically fundamental issue, Labour is committed to a neo-Keynesian approach which includes Govt borrowing to invest in productive capacity. Sunak had repeatedly said that his priority is paying back the debt. That is a profound difference of approach. Anyone who hadn't realised that over the past decade and a half had been living under a rock.

This "they're all the same so there's no point" line is THE most idle political comment anyone can come out with. And it is dangerous. Be sure it clears the path for the beguiling voices of extremists who promise something (anything) different.

Fair enough BST. But your average voter will see 2 centrists and will make their mind up based on the characters of the candidates and a few differences on policies / talking points. I appreciate your expertise, but it is the job of each candidate to detail these differences in a clear way.

The conservatives have committed to net zero 2050?

If you someone wants to insulate their home, they can do it. It’s not the government’s job to do everything.

Correct me if I’m wrong but Sunak has spent the most of any post-war chancellor and tax is at its highest for % of GDP at present post war also? Not very conservative.

Starmer doesn’t come across as a brave or principled man to me, he will just say what he thinks it takes to get to no.10.

[SydneyRover]

sunak - eat out to get covid, that sunak?

[ncRover]

sunak - eat out to get covid, that sunak?

Do you live in Aus?

[SydneyRover]

sunak - eat out to get covid, that sunak?

Do you live in Aus?

Yes, but if I pay my dues I can pick who would be pm, so can my dog and my budgie

[ncRover]

sunak - eat out to get covid, that sunak?

Do you live in Aus?

Yes, but if I pay my dues I can pick who would be pm, so can my dog and my budgie

I know, it just helps me to understand your covid take is all.

[SydneyRover]

Everyone knows the covid 'take' nc the tories under johnson right royaly f**ked up and 10s of thousands died that didn't need to, I guess it will all come out again over any election campaign.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's the "I proudly brought in Carl Heneghan to persuade Johnson we didn't need a lockdown in Autumn 2020, thereby causing maybe 50,000 avoidable deaths" Sunak.

And yes, he is actually on record taking credit for that. He used it in his election campaign this summer.

[ncRover]

Everyone knows the covid 'take' nc the tories under johnson right royaly f**ked up and 10s of thousands died that didn't need to, I guess it will all come out again over any election campaign.

Yep a close family member of mine was one. But I don’t blame that on anyone. Except perhaps China, but that’s wasted energy.

Look at current excess deaths all cause mortality. NHS backlog, negative health outcomes from lockdown? All of which would have gotten worse with Labour (point in case below).

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1417185971284496384?s=46&t=ycvN_3-k081q1zkCcycIRw

This is another debate anyway and boils down to your philosophy on life.

[SydneyRover]

No need to nc, all the evidence has been brought out and done to death you might say already, johnson and his team have their fingerprints all over it.

[ncRover]

No need to nc, all the evidence has been brought out and done to death you might say already, johnson and his team have their fingerprints all over it.

No need to what?