Rishi Sunak

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've never said anything about Sunak engaging in Culture War.

He's just re-appointed a Home Secretary though who is a batshit Culture Warrior.

My mistake. Yes she is very strange.

Not just very strange. Not exactly the sharpest knife in the box either.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bmay/status/1585166867429105664

[BillyStubbsTears]

I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.

In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?

[Filo]

I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.

In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?

In my opinion, a world where that situation was engineered, to get rid of Truss and get Sunak in, for which she has now been rewarded, that would be a top question at PMQ’s if I were Starmer

[tommy toes]

Yes I was confused by that article.
Accusing the left of being anti growth was palpably wrong, therefore the whole article is compromised.

[River Don]

Can't argue that cost's due to the war and then energy prices have not affected the economy, the problem began way before though that with having economic rationalists running the country so that it was and still is ill equipped to manage those or any other economic shocks RD.

Prior to the war, there was some inflationary pressure created by the fallout of Covid. Things like a lack of supply of semiconductors from the Far East were creating shortages of things like new cars, which had the knock on effect of pushing the price of second hand cars up. Really though the inflation wasn't dramatic. The debt Covid created though very large was manageable.

What really triggered the inflation in Europe and the west though was Putin. It started a good six months before the invasion. In Sept 21 gas prices began to rise relentlessly. You may recall Kwarteng had to bail out Co2/Fertilizer plants? That was because gas was already unaffordable. Fuel prices at the pump were also rocketing.

Putin was applying pressure to Europe over Nordstream2 and paving the way for invasion. Coincidentally Sept 21 was also the time inflation in Europe started rising significantly and it was being driven by oil and gas prices.

So I maintain, the vast majority of this inflation in the west is being generated by Putin and his economic war on the west.

Look at Switzerland, it currently has much lower inflation than the rest of Europe. Why? Because they have virtually no reliance on gas in their energy mix. It's all nuclear and green energy such as hydro.

High inflation is usually to do with commodities. It was in the 70s when the Arabs punished the west by limiting oil supply, because of our support for Israel.

[River Don]

I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.

In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?

Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.

Cynical, moi?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.

In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?

Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.

Cynical, moi?

She may well have done. But it doesn't change the fact that she flagrantly broke the Ministerial Code. It's a breach that should require a long period of penance before she was brought back to the Cabinet.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes I was confused by that article.
Accusing the left of being anti growth was palpably wrong, therefore the whole article is compromised.

It's crap journalism.

- Decide you want to do a lazy "one one hand this: on the other hand that," piece

-  Find some obscure left-leaning economists who say what you want to point out, even though they have zero influence on left wing parties.

- Ignore the mass of analysis from the vast majority of left-leaning economists who have been screaming for growth policies throughout the last decade, and who have had profound influence on left-leaning parties.

That article isn't worth wiping your arse on.

[River Don]

I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.

In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?

Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.

Cynical, moi?

She may well have done. But it doesn't change the fact that she flagrantly broke the Ministerial Code. It's a breach that should require a long period of penance before she was brought back to the Cabinet.

At the time there were raised eyebrows, it was a minor transgration...

Steve Baker, who co-led her leadership campaign and is now a Northern Ireland minister, said the use of a personal email had only been “technically” a breach of rules, and that such liaison with other MPs on policy was “perfectly normal”.

One Tory MP said it seemed “very minor” and that most cabinet ministers had been guilty of the same thing.

... Note that she brought the issue to wider attention herself and the document was due to be declassified shortly.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD.

SHE said that she raised the issue herself.  That's not what Tim Shipman has reported. He said she inadvertently copied in an official on the email that she sent out. He raised the transgression with the Cabinet Office.

If Shipman is to be believed, not only did Braverman break confidentiality rules, she then publicly lied about it AND (and this is the key) she lied to the PM about it.

[drfchound]

I know we are in surreal political times, but less than a week ago, Braverman had to resign for a breach of Cabinet security.

In what world is it ok for her to waltz back into the same very senior position, 5 days later?

Personally I think she probably engineered her resignation with Sunaks knowledge to heap yet more pressure on Truss, on the understanding that when Sunak took power she would return to post.

Cynical, moi?

She may well have done. But it doesn't change the fact that she flagrantly broke the Ministerial Code. It's a breach that should require a long period of penance before she was brought back to the Cabinet.

At the time there were raised eyebrows, it was a minor transgration...

Steve Baker, who co-led her leadership campaign and is now a Northern Ireland minister, said the use of a personal email had only been “technically” a breach of rules, and that such liaison with other MPs on policy was “perfectly normal”.

One Tory MP said it seemed “very minor” and that most cabinet ministers had been guilty of the same thing.

... Note that she brought the issue to wider attention herself and the document was due to be declassified shortly.

She also apologised for the mistake.
Odd though that when a Labour MP apologies for a mistake it is ok but not when a Tory MP does the same, well on this board anyway.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1582764013456613376?t=zZZESD2u4FpTIp2rUhfYpQ&s=19

Even that chap thought it was minor.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Is that Cummings the well known arbiter of standards?

Or is it Cummings the svengali to Sunak, diving in to protect his protoge from criticism?

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.

Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.

At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")

Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.

[ncRover]

By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.

Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.

At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")

Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.

Stuff like this is just petty and boring. PMQs should be an intellectual debate on ideas, not nonsense like this.

[tyke1962]

By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.

Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.

At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")

Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.

But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .

Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .

[Bentley Bullet]

BST's simplistic world of politics boils down to the Labour Party doing no wrong, and the Tory Party doing no right.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.

Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.

At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")

Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.

But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .

Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .

No Tyke.

They didn't.

Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.

You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.

[tyke1962]

By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.

Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.

At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")

Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.

But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .

Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .

No Tyke.

They didn't.

Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.

You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.

A Labour MP told Sunak at PMQ's a nurse would have to work 20 thousand years to earn his wealth .

What do you think made him ask that question ?

Clearly it's aimed at Sunak's lack of understanding of real life on a modest income .

You could argue Starmer got the same back from Sunak given a leafy North London address doesn't come cheap .

Ever thought the pair of em are out of touch ?

[drfchound]

I suppose there will be plenty of Labour voters who will have to work for thousands of years to be a penny behind Starmer too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.

Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.

At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")

Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.

But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .

Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .

No Tyke.

They didn't.

Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.

You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.

A Labour MP told Sunak at PMQ's a nurse would have to work 20 thousand years to earn his wealth .

What do you think made him ask that question ?

Clearly it's aimed at Sunak's lack of understanding of real life on a modest income .

You could argue Starmer got the same back from Sunak given a leafy North London address doesn't come cheap .

Ever thought the pair of em are out of touch ?

Are you really going to die on this hill?

Equating the son of a disabled nurse and a toolmaker who worked his way up his chosen profession: and a man who went to a £46k/year public school then married the heiress of one of the richest men in India?

Are you really going down that road?

[tyke1962]

By the way. I said earlier that I hadn't accused Sunak of playing the Culture War.

Because yo my knowledge he hadn't.

At least he hadn't until his first PMQs, where he made a big deal about Starmer's north London residence (translation: "member of the liberal elite")

Looks like it's going to be one of those PM-ships then, eh? A man who lives in a £7m pad in Kensington, has a sprawling mansion in North Yorks and is married to one of the richest women in the world accusing other people of being disconnected from ordinary people's lives.

But Starmer does live in North London and he is a liberal elite no matter how much he tries to disguise his middle class .

Labour did throw Sunak's wealth in to today's proceedings when all is said and done .

No Tyke.

They didn't.

Starmer was questioning Sunak on that video that shows him bragging about removing finding from Barnsley and giving it to Tonbridge. Sunak responded by effectively saying Starmer was part of an elite that didn't understand hardship.

You, Tyke, wouldn't recognise someone who is on your side of the gave you the moon on a plate. Because you prefer to play this Culture War shit.

A Labour MP told Sunak at PMQ's a nurse would have to work 20 thousand years to earn his wealth .

What do you think made him ask that question ?

Clearly it's aimed at Sunak's lack of understanding of real life on a modest income .

You could argue Starmer got the same back from Sunak given a leafy North London address doesn't come cheap .

Ever thought the pair of em are out of touch ?

Are you really going to die on this hill?

Equating the son of a disabled nurse and a toolmaker who worked his way up his chosen profession: and a man who went to a £46k/year public school then married the heiress of one of the richest men in India?

Are you really going down that road?

Didn't Sunak's parents run a chemist shop Billy ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.
His father is a GP. His mother owns a pharmacy. Between them they could afford to send Sunak to one of the most expensive private schools in the world.

Sunak ran a hedge fund when he graduated. Starmer defended people who'd been unfairly convicted.

You REALLY going to carry on with this equivalence nonsense?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Big thumbs up to Sunak in this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63402777

[Filo]

Big thumbs up to Sunak in this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63402777

Refused to commit to the Triple Lock though

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Tyke.
His father is a GP. His mother owns a pharmacy. Between them they could afford to send Sunak to one of the most expensive private schools in the world.

Sunak ran a hedge fund when he graduated. Starmer defended people who'd been unfairly convicted.

You REALLY going to carry on with this equivalence nonsense?

They're actually proof of what most conservatives believe in.  People who worked hard to earn what they have.

Yes he's lucky that he's married in to wealth, but he's also helped out in curry restaurants to earn money etc when he was younger.  His wealth is not his fault and I'd rather judge him for what he does.

It's being critical of those who are successful that holds back parts of our society at times.

[Branton Red]

Big thumbs up to Sunak in this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63402777

Hear, hear.

Fracking is totally inappropriate for our small, densely populated island and it's yields would have made next to zero impact on wholesale gas prices. Certainly not worth the potential environmental consequences.

Was very pleased to discover this ban had been reinforced and given Labour are wholly against it too this probably (hopefully) is the death knell for Fracking in this country.

[drfchound]

Tyke.
His father is a GP. His mother owns a pharmacy. Between them they could afford to send Sunak to one of the most expensive private schools in the world.

Sunak ran a hedge fund when he graduated. Starmer defended people who'd been unfairly convicted.

You REALLY going to carry on with this equivalence nonsense?

They're actually proof of what most conservatives believe in.  People who worked hard to earn what they have.

Yes he's lucky that he's married in to wealth, but he's also helped out in curry restaurants to earn money etc when he was younger.  His wealth is not his fault and I'd rather judge him for what he does.

It's being critical of those who are successful that holds back parts of our society at times.

Known as the green eyed monster BFYP.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Two points BFYP

1) This idea that the Tories are the guardians of aspiration and Labour is all for keeping the masses down  is the laziest political lie in the country.

The clearest route to achievement is education.

Labour has poured money into the state school system whenever it has been in power. Labour oversaw two of the three biggest expansions in the University sector, offering degree level education to millions of working class kids for the first time.

Aspiration is something that everyone should support. And we should make sure that council estate kids have the same opportunity to progress as Winchester College pupils.

2) I have not had a go at Sunak for having a very comfortable background or for marrying into wealth. I WILL have a go at him if, having had that background, he tries to play Culture War politics by branding someone who had none of this advantages as being from The Elite.

That is pathetic, content-free, divisive politics. 

[Bristol Red Rover]

If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.

You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.

And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet

I’m going to assume that by trickle down economics that you mean open free market capitalism.

If so please provide evidence that other economic models work better.

If we’re following your trickle down analogy, left wing ideas turn down the water supply in that.

trickle down economics is giving money to the extremely wealthy and expecting that they will make the best use of that money and it will pass down, trickle down, to the ordinary person. This is a falacy and nothing whatsoever to do with economics - it's about feathering your mates beds, simple.

If you want to give water to people, you give water to people, not to their suppliers.