Nurses

[albie]

Barclay decides to take the RCN to court;
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-health-minister-says-he-will-seek-court-order-block-nurses-strike-2023-04-21/?rpc=401&

This could be a massive mistake by the Tories.
Nobody likes a bully, and especially one who picks on nurses.

They can't live on claps alone, can they?

[danumdon]

Barclay decides to take the RCN to court;
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-health-minister-says-he-will-seek-court-order-block-nurses-strike-2023-04-21/?rpc=401&

This could be a massive mistake by the Tories.
Nobody likes a bully, and especially one who picks on nurses.

They can't live on claps alone, can they?

No, the nurses should not expect to get by on the sympathy of the public.

What they need to do is get back to work and have the supposedly independent review board decide on their wage demands, and then uphold it.

They along with other essential occupations like the police, armed forces, and other emergency services should be in a special review board agreement which has teeth and can rise up over the flannel they have at this moment in time.

[i_ateallthepies]

'Supposedly independent'... and they should get back to work and let them decide?   hmmm.

[tyke1962]

I can't think of a more heavy hearted sector than the nurses who vote for industrial action .

Absolutely torn between their duty as nurses and paying the bills they are .

Now we need an Independent Pay Body apparently to determine that one of the most important jobs in society pays it's nurses or not a rate  that follows  inflation .

Or in real terms a wage that buys what it bought 15 years ago for doing a job that's considerably harder than what it was back then .

You really have to wonder what some  people in this country have become over the last few decades and what they once were , when despite a brain washing campaign from the usual suspects and adopted by New Labour that Trade Unions are bad , militant and Communists many many people in this country were actually better off even in a tough economic climate .

But hey ho let's remove the only bullet in the gun that nurses have to obtain a better standard of living and leave it for OTHERS to decide whether they heat or eat .

Cracking idea .

[danumdon]

'Supposedly independent'... and they should get back to work and let them decide?   hmmm.

The reason i said supposedly independent is because this needs to be taken out of the hands of any current government, let a properly independent review board decide what they should get(just as ACAS  have done in the past) and then both sides can be sure that the awarding bodies are above board.

They also need to get back to work because this occupation is one that would very quickly loose any public support when the public start to see there families affected by a general nurse or doctors strike. Any review board should be taking this into account, they should be getting a fair pay settlement.

You can stand your attack dogs down now.

[tyke1962]

'Supposedly independent'... and they should get back to work and let them decide?   hmmm.

The reason i said supposedly independent is because this needs to be taken out of the hands of any current government, let a properly independent review board decide what they should get(just as ACAS  have done in the past) and then both sides can be sure that the awarding bodies are above board.

They also need to get back to work because this occupation is one that would very quickly loose any public support when the public start to see there families affected by a general nurse or doctors strike. Any review board should be taking this into account, they should be getting a fair pay settlement.

You can stand your attack dogs down now.

You still have faith that this country is capable of setting up something independent outside of government control ?

Hmm , possibly one of the most corrupt country's on the planet if you dig down in to the weeds .

The last bastion of socialism that is the NHS and the pay scale is to be decided independently ?

There is no such thing as independent in this country , none what so ever .

The so called Regulators blew that one year's ago in my world and there is no debate to be had .

Some people in this country deserve Private Healthcare as the only show in town and the £8k per year family insurance plan .

[selby]

  Just had 8 weeks visiting the York Teaching Hospital every evening, always got there about 6 pm at the change of shifts less visitors easier to park nearer the hospital and coincided with nurses changing shifts as I said.
   What amazed me was how many must visit the food banks in their BMW, Mercedes, and Volvo SUV's with the latest registrations.

[tyke1962]

  Just had 8 weeks visiting the York Teaching Hospital every evening, always got there about 6 pm at the change of shifts less visitors easier to park nearer the hospital and coincided with nurses changing shifts as I said.
   What amazed me was how many must visit the food banks in their BMW, Mercedes, and Volvo SUV's with the latest registrations.

Nurses pay is banded .

Grades 1 , 2 , 3 and 4 the salary is less than £23k pa .

I would imagine the vast majority of nurses fall in to the 1-4 bands because they tend to be  younger people and still short of experience to climb the band ladder and extra pay .

You'd imagine the vast majority of those coming to the NHS from overseas would fall in to Grades 1-4 , recent graduates etc .

[EasyforDennis]

  Just had 8 weeks visiting the York Teaching Hospital every evening, always got there about 6 pm at the change of shifts less visitors easier to park nearer the hospital and coincided with nurses changing shifts as I said.
   What amazed me was how many must visit the food banks in their BMW, Mercedes, and Volvo SUV's with the latest registrations.

Maybe they are "bank" workers getting paid higher salaries from agencies screwing the NHS for millions due to the shortage of NHS nurses created by the Tory party over the last 12 years.

[Bentley Bullet]

Data published by NHS Digital up to September 2022 shows there are almost 4,000 more doctors and over 9,300 more nurses working in the NHS compared to September 2021. Since 2010, there are now over 34,170 more doctors and over 44,820 more nurses working in the NHS.

[EasyforDennis]

With over £6b being spent on agency and bank wages every year.

[albie]

DD,

The nurses are resisting a pay cut.
The offer of a 5% increase when inflation is above 10% is clearly not an increase in real terms.

Failure to meet the cost of living index will make staff retention even worse, with unfilled vacancies adding to pressures on the NHS. There is a difference between permanent staff recruitment and agency staff brought in on short term deals.

A fair wage is a pre-requisite for service improvement across the health sector.

[danumdon]

DD,

The nurses are resisting a pay cut.
The offer of a 5% increase when inflation is above 10% is clearly not an increase in real terms.

Failure to meet the cost of living index will make staff retention even worse, with unfilled vacancies adding to pressures on the NHS. There is a difference between permanent staff recruitment and agency staff brought in on short term deals.

A fair wage is a pre-requisite for service improvement across the health sector.

I agree, a fair wage is required for all workers, as they are all wanting to resist a pay cut.

I haven't seen many sectors getting anywhere near an inflation busting wage rose without some massive restructuring involved.

If the nurses are happy and prepared to have their terms restructured then maybe they will get something closer to inflation, most others workers will not.

Always remember, when your talking about public sector wage increases your in effect talking about raising the cost to the state which is you and me and all other tax payers.I don't want the state throwing tax revenues around wastefully, we have had far to much of that already, i would want value for money, if this is achievable then great, if not then we need to talk about restructuring.

Many of my colleague have had recent wage rises that have been sanctioned only after restructuring has been implemented, in effect people can have the extra money if the are flexible and more productive.

Surely this is the way to go in other sectors including the NHS.

[ravenrover]

I see the Doctors leader has now submitted their pay demand in writing (nicked from twitter)

[Filo]

DD,

The nurses are resisting a pay cut.
The offer of a 5% increase when inflation is above 10% is clearly not an increase in real terms.

Failure to meet the cost of living index will make staff retention even worse, with unfilled vacancies adding to pressures on the NHS. There is a difference between permanent staff recruitment and agency staff brought in on short term deals.

A fair wage is a pre-requisite for service improvement across the health sector.

I agree, a fair wage is required for all workers, as they are all wanting to resist a pay cut.

I haven't seen many sectors getting anywhere near an inflation busting wage rose without some massive restructuring involved.

If the nurses are happy and prepared to have their terms restructured then maybe they will get something closer to inflation, most others workers will not.

Always remember, when your talking about public sector wage increases your in effect talking about raising the cost to the state which is you and me and all other tax payers.I don't want the state throwing tax revenues around wastefully, we have had far to much of that already, i would want value for money, if this is achievable then great, if not then we need to talk about restructuring.

Many of my colleague have had recent wage rises that have been sanctioned only after restructuring has been implemented, in effect people can have the extra money if the are flexible and more productive.

Surely this is the way to go in other sectors including the NHS.

I take you are happy at the state picking up Johnsons legal bills?

[danumdon]

DD,

The nurses are resisting a pay cut.
The offer of a 5% increase when inflation is above 10% is clearly not an increase in real terms.

Failure to meet the cost of living index will make staff retention even worse, with unfilled vacancies adding to pressures on the NHS. There is a difference between permanent staff recruitment and agency staff brought in on short term deals.

A fair wage is a pre-requisite for service improvement across the health sector.

I agree, a fair wage is required for all workers, as they are all wanting to resist a pay cut.

I haven't seen many sectors getting anywhere near an inflation busting wage rose without some massive restructuring involved.

If the nurses are happy and prepared to have their terms restructured then maybe they will get something closer to inflation, most others workers will not.

Always remember, when your talking about public sector wage increases your in effect talking about raising the cost to the state which is you and me and all other tax payers.I don't want the state throwing tax revenues around wastefully, we have had far to much of that already, i would want value for money, if this is achievable then great, if not then we need to talk about restructuring.

Many of my colleague have had recent wage rises that have been sanctioned only after restructuring has been implemented, in effect people can have the extra money if the are flexible and more productive.

Surely this is the way to go in other sectors including the NHS.

I take you are happy at the state picking up Johnsons legal bills?

I'm struggling to see where in my post you've got the idea that i'm happy for the state to pick up Johnso's legal bills.

You been on the sauce?

For the record i'd put Johnson and his ilk only just second to the royals in the countries biggest sponger's stakes.

[Ldr]

  Just had 8 weeks visiting the York Teaching Hospital every evening, always got there about 6 pm at the change of shifts less visitors easier to park nearer the hospital and coincided with nurses changing shifts as I said.
   What amazed me was how many must visit the food banks in their BMW, Mercedes, and Volvo SUV's with the latest registrations.

Maybe they are "bank" workers getting paid higher salaries from agencies screwing the NHS for millions due to the shortage of NHS nurses created by the Tory party over the last 12 years.

Chances are they are salary sacrifice lease cars, my new one due in December at end of current lease, hell of a benefit we have in the nhs that never gets mentioned

[DRFC_AjA]

  Just had 8 weeks visiting the York Teaching Hospital every evening, always got there about 6 pm at the change of shifts less visitors easier to park nearer the hospital and coincided with nurses changing shifts as I said.
   What amazed me was how many must visit the food banks in their BMW, Mercedes, and Volvo SUV's with the latest registrations.

Maybe they are "bank" workers getting paid higher salaries from agencies screwing the NHS for millions due to the shortage of NHS nurses created by the Tory party over the last 12 years.

Chances are they are salary sacrifice lease cars, my new one due in December at end of current lease, hell of a benefit we have in the nhs that never gets mentioned

Our company just introduced the salary sacrifice on cars too, heck of a wait now there's a parts shortage. Are the leases going through the roof with the rate rises?

[Ldr]

Not that I’ve noticed, next lease is a special offer (fleet get a load of x model in bulk offered by a dealer) so be less than usual nhs price too