Lucy Letby

[Prez]

What a disgusting piece of scum the person is.

No doubt she will be kept in isolation in prison, but we can hope she gets a torrid time in there.

[ChrisBx]

This a truly horrific case, the motives for which we will probably never know.

She's due to be sentenced on Monday. Anything other than a whole life order would be very concerning.

[normal rules]

7 murders, 6 attempts. That should equate to 13 life sentences. She won’t last long.
There will be women inside queuing up to shank her.
She has already been moved prison three times for probably that reason.

[tommy toes]

The Hospital has a lot to answer for. They continually tried to cover it up, even when there was overwhelming evidence there was something very wrong.
If they'd acted earlier then some of the babies wouldn't have been harmed.

[belton rover]

The Hospital has a lot to answer for. They continually tried to cover it up, even when there was overwhelming evidence there was something very wrong.
If they'd acted earlier then some of the babies wouldn't have been harmed.

This is the problem with how today’s society has taken ‘human rights’ to a different level. It’s too easy for people to play the victim. She did this and people were told to back off, probably through fear of unwanted hassle and counter accusations of bullying.
How many baby deaths has that resulted in? It’s sickening.

[TonySoprano]

Honestly can't see her surviving long prison

[belton rover]

I imagine she’ll end up in Rampton, away from ‘normal’ prisoners.

[Draytonian III]

I doubt she’ll end up at Rampton because that’s where the other vile piece of Shitte who did the same thing is , Beverley Allit and she’s been there years. In my view neither of them should be alive

[TommyC]

The Hospital has a lot to answer for. They continually tried to cover it up, even when there was overwhelming evidence there was something very wrong.
If they'd acted earlier then some of the babies wouldn't have been harmed.

This is the problem with how today’s society has taken ‘human rights’ to a different level. It’s too easy for people to play the victim. She did this and people were told to back off, probably through fear of unwanted hassle and counter accusations of bullying.
How many baby deaths has that resulted in? It’s sickening.

A lot of sense in this post. I commented to the wife (an Employment lawyer) only yesterday that this is a product of the employment laws in this country placing such power with the employees that it contributes to absolute paralysis in the abilty of any Manager or business owner (particularly small business owners) to properly address underperforming staff. Whilst I appreciate "underperforming" is a massive understatement when used in respect of Letby, the principle remains that Managers are terrified to manage properly these days as all of the power resides with the employee. It's almost impossible to performance manage staff these days as the first thing that happens when you try to do so is they get signed off sick for stress and anxiety. Then they place you on notice that they have a disability (usually a mental one) meaning you're on notice of a "protected characteristic". From that point on, you can't touch them without the risk of a disability discrimination claim. It happens time and time again in our business and businesses we advise. Whilst the ins and outs of Letby'case and the role NHS management played in it have yet to be fully scrutinised and made public, i'd place a large wager on NHS Management being on notice of some form of mental disabiilty, hence why they shat themselves and made the Senior Consultants apologise to her, reinstated her and offered to pay for her bloody Masters degree. 

I'm not suggesting employees shouldn't have protections and we should return to the bad old days or become like the USA (basically no employment rights at all) but it does feel like the pendulum has shifted too far the other way. How we address that, who knows!

[DRFC_AjA]

Was listening to news this morning and one solicitor was saying if you want to go down the road of forcing the guilty to court for the verdict then it could take upwards of 6 prison personnel.  Is it worth it? For them to sit there and listen to the victims who we all already know are suffering, who won't get any extra justice, who won't get over their loss by talking for a few hours in court. Video links better surely?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The Hospital has a lot to answer for. They continually tried to cover it up, even when there was overwhelming evidence there was something very wrong.
If they'd acted earlier then some of the babies wouldn't have been harmed.

This is the problem with how today’s society has taken ‘human rights’ to a different level. It’s too easy for people to play the victim. She did this and people were told to back off, probably through fear of unwanted hassle and counter accusations of bullying.
How many baby deaths has that resulted in? It’s sickening.

A lot of sense in this post. I commented to the wife (an Employment lawyer) only yesterday that this is a product of the employment laws in this country placing such power with the employees that it contributes to absolute paralysis in the abilty of any Manager or business owner (particularly small business owners) to properly address underperforming staff. Whilst I appreciate "underperforming" is a massive understatement when used in respect of Letby, the principle remains that Managers are terrified to manage properly these days as all of the power resides with the employee. It's almost impossible to performance manage staff these days as the first thing that happens when you try to do so is they get signed off sick for stress and anxiety. Then they place you on notice that they have a disability (usually a mental one) meaning you're on notice of a "protected characteristic". From that point on, you can't touch them without the risk of a disability discrimination claim. It happens time and time again in our business and businesses we advise. Whilst the ins and outs of Letby'case and the role NHS management played in it have yet to be fully scrutinised and made public, i'd place a large wager on NHS Management being on notice of some form of mental disabiilty, hence why they shat themselves and made the Senior Consultants apologise to her, reinstated her and offered to pay for her bloody Masters degree. 

I'm not suggesting employees shouldn't have protections and we should return to the bad old days or become like the USA (basically no employment rights at all) but it does feel like the pendulum has shifted too far the other way. How we address that, who knows!

It's an age old problem and I don't think there's any easy solution.

I've worked in an old style SME which was run by a complete psychopath with absolutely no mechanism to control him. His management led to  a string of nervous breakdowns. And worse.

I've also worked in a large, modern organisation in which we had to get rid of someone potentially equally dangerous and the HR policies made it horrendously difficult.

I've also run a small company in which I've had to sack three people and each time I've laid awake at night agonising over whether I was doing the right thing.

I don't know what the answer is. Maybe there isn't one and there will always be horrific problems that slip through the net, however you try to strike the balance between managerial freedom to decide, and legally enforced procedures.

This particular case is almost too awful to consider. I don't believe in the concept of Evil. I think anyone who can commit atrocities like this has been damaged somehow. But equally, I don't think we have the ability as a society to mend every damaged individual. Some of them just need to be kept away from society. Society, for whatever reason, failed that with this woman. And the result is simply too sad for words.

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't know the answer to fair employment rights either, but from personal experience, I feel the rights of workers declined when the personnel officer was replaced by HR. The Personnel officer used to provide support and advice to employees on worker's rights and all other aspects of employment life, whereas HR provided information on the laws of managerial rights, generally telling you to shut the f**k up because them's the rules and you haven't got a leg to stand on.

[Colin C No.3]

Time to reconsider Capital Punishment?

Lucy Letby
David Boyd
Tahir Zarif
Moses Smith
Hassan Tasleem & Gurdeep Sandu
Abdirahaman Yussuf
Wahid Bik

All found guilty (Letby has yet to be) of premeditated murder in 2023.

I don’t understand why child rapists are ever released from prison.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd broadly agree with that BB

Even the term "Human Resources" is something I find offensive. It reduces colleagues to a "resource".

[BillyStubbsTears]

Time to reconsider Capital Punishment?

Lucy Letby
David Boyd
Tahir Zarif
Moses Smith
Hassan Tasleem & Gurdeep Sandu
Abdirahaman Yussuf
Wahid Bik

All found guilty (Letby has yet to be) of premeditated murder in 2023.

I don’t understand why child rapists are ever released from prison.

What does that gain you, other than sating a need for revenge?

[turnbull for england]

The thing with capital punishment in this case is who is it for . Don't get me wrong, she can go up in flames this afternoon for me and I wouldn't blink. Whatever in the world possessed her to do this, would not have been altered by the thought of whatever outcome she's getting this afternoon  as if she was thinking about consequences then none of this would ever have happened. I don't know the answer,  when it's this black and white I can see a case for it but does it achieve anything

As much of the families feedback as I can manage to read( we've had miscarriage in our house and that's enough to cope with, how these carry on is to their eternal praise) makes you realise they have a lifetime sentence,and she deserves nothing less. A quick end is too good for her.   I prefer the thought she's sat in a cell for next 50 yrs  in a state of constant termoil, never feeling safe or rested  ike Huntley and others who seem to have  had a few "visitors "  in their time

[Iberian Red]

TFE, that is a very sensible post. I too agree that it would be better she spent the rest of her days with the horror of what she did going through her mind.
I hope she loves to be 100,spends all of that time incarcerated  in solitary rather than putting her out of her misery now.
On a personal level, sorry to hear about the tragedy you have endured with the miscarriages.

[River Don]

TFE, that is a very sensible post. I too agree that it would be better she spent the rest of her days with the horror of what she did going through her mind.
I hope she loves to be 100,spends all of that time incarcerated  in solitary rather than putting her out of her misery now.
On a personal level, sorry to hear about the tragedy you have endured with the miscarriages.

Does an indidual like that ever consider the horror of what they've done? Perhaps someone with a damaged mind like this enjoys reminiscing about it?

Nobody sane can know.

Perhaps living out a nothing life without being able to feel safe is a punishment but who knows what's going on in a head like that.

[Iberian Red]

True RD,but personally I'd prefer  rather than an animal being put out of its misery,she suffers for eternity.

[turnbull for england]

An equally fair point RD and I'm only too glad I'll never have to decide which is right

[BillyStubbsTears]

TFE, that is a very sensible post. I too agree that it would be better she spent the rest of her days with the horror of what she did going through her mind.
I hope she loves to be 100,spends all of that time incarcerated  in solitary rather than putting her out of her misery now.
On a personal level, sorry to hear about the tragedy you have endured with the miscarriages.

Does an indidual like that ever consider the horror of what they've done? Perhaps someone with a damaged mind like this enjoys reminiscing about it?

Nobody sane can know.

Perhaps living out a nothing life without being able to feel safe is a punishment but who knows what's going on in a head like that.

Spot on RD.

Other than specialist professional psychologists* I'd be worried about anyone who could understand what has been going on inside her head.

* Possibly not even them. This sort of person is, thankfully, so rare that I suspect there's little but guesswork to help indicate why they turn out like this.

[turnbull for england]

TFE, that is a very sensible post. I too agree that it would be better she spent the rest of her days with the horror of what she did going through her mind.
I hope she loves to be 100,spends all of that time incarcerated  in solitary rather than putting her out of her misery now.
On a personal level, sorry to hear about the tragedy you have endured with the miscarriages.

Cheers Iberian , one of those things that's way more common than you realise untill you're  a member of the gang. Our lass still knows the dates, and doesn't watch certain programmes now 15-20 years on and it was just one of those things for us. These poor families, I don't know how they recover.

[GazLaz]

Capital punishment is no punishment is it? Probably be doing her a favour.

[Iberian Red]

❤️

[Iberian Red]

Sorry Gaz,that was fir Turnbull.

[River Don]

I sometimes wonder if in such cases they should be allowed to request euthanasia?

It would give them an easy way out and it would probably be the cheapest resolution for the tax payer.

[belton rover]

I'd broadly agree with that BB

Even the term "Human Resources" is something I find offensive. It reduces colleagues to a "resource".

Is that really what HR means?
I honestly thought it meant that that department had the resources to help the (human) workforce.

[ChrisBx]

The victim personal statements heard in court today were some of the most heartbreaking accounts I've ever read or heard. Those poor families.

I also can't help but think of Letby's colleagues, friends and family, all of whom have been betrayed by her.

Regarding Letby, her crimes are inconceivable for any rational person. One logical assumption of a motive, based on the available evidence, would be munchausen by proxy, but even that leaves you baffled as to how a clearly intelligent individual was able to overcome her internal barriers to repeatedly kill or attempt to kill babies. I doubt even she'd be explain why she has committed these crimes.

Sadly, there is a good chance that more crimes by Letby are to be detected.

[Iberian Red]

I'd broadly agree with that BB

Even the term "Human Resources" is something I find offensive. It reduces colleagues to a "resource".

Is that really what HR means?
I honestly thought it meant that that department had the resources to help the (human) workforce.

Belton,I've spent a good few years working alongside HR departments,and the only thing they see is a resource in their workplace.
Most working in HR tend to have a degree in law,or on occasions pyschology(the better ones in my opinion) and see the workforce as another number that can be employed or dismissed on their order.
Most employees in big organisations are scared sh#tless of them.
They don't go to them for help or guidance.

[Iberian Red]

Also,let Lucy spend her life in jail,getting a gard time from screws and inmates every minute of the day