Gutless from back to front!

[Arsenal Of The North]

The non existent midfield killed us today, they were able to just run straight through us at every chance it seemed

Bailey is no CM in my opinion, I know we were short there today and he filled in, but for 60 minutes he played on toms knee he was that deep.

It didn’t get any better, biggins, one of his worst preformances, probably played a little out of place, but should be capable of being box to box and doing a job.

Hurst, infective, touch terrible, weak on the ball.

[mushRTID]

No interview from McCann yet….

[In the box]

Shocking display, as stupid as it sounds they were there for the taking and we put a display like that in

So .. who or what is to blame ?

[vaya]

I cant believe what I have just watched. In my opinion we were playing with 7 men first half...Jones, Biggins, Hurst and Faal were all absolutely hopeless.

Don't mean to bang on about the goalie again but we had 2 out of contract keepers in the summer. We go and bring one in who everyone knew wasn't good enough and now he's sat on the bench behind a goalie who we also knew isn't good enough! Its a massive f**k up.

The rest of it you can look at injuries but that starting 11 should still have been better than that.

That last sentence sums it up.

Yes we have injuries, but we had a group of players available today who were far better than what we reduced to by the end of March last year.

We were shit then, but I never saw a performance as gutless and clueless as today's.

There are some serious questions to ask about the rot in this club. I'd start by asking why it is that every side we play against seems to have more energy, strength and aggression than we do.

The ppg average has now dropped to 1.14. That’s 52 points come season unless there is a dramatic upturn in form . And for what it’s worth I think that’s where this team is at currently.

The upturn since the first 7 games has been there for all to see. Today was dreadful but since the forest green game we’ve been in play off form.

Such a deluded t**t as always

No need for that.

[dickos1]

I cant believe what I have just watched. In my opinion we were playing with 7 men first half...Jones, Biggins, Hurst and Faal were all absolutely hopeless.

Don't mean to bang on about the goalie again but we had 2 out of contract keepers in the summer. We go and bring one in who everyone knew wasn't good enough and now he's sat on the bench behind a goalie who we also knew isn't good enough! Its a massive f**k up.

The rest of it you can look at injuries but that starting 11 should still have been better than that.

That last sentence sums it up.

Yes we have injuries, but we had a group of players available today who were far better than what we reduced to by the end of March last year.

We were shit then, but I never saw a performance as gutless and clueless as today's.

There are some serious questions to ask about the rot in this club. I'd start by asking why it is that every side we play against seems to have more energy, strength and aggression than we do.

The ppg average has now dropped to 1.14. That’s 52 points come season unless there is a dramatic upturn in form . And for what it’s worth I think that’s where this team is at currently.

The upturn since the first 7 games has been there for all to see. Today was dreadful but since the forest green game we’ve been in play off form.

Such a deluded t**t as always

Ha ha
You muppet, no surprise you’re here again.
I know you’re not the brightest chap, but over the last 14 games we’ve got 22 points, which is playoff form.
It’s not that difficult to figure out really unless you’ve the intelligence of a toad like yourself.

[dickos1]

No interview from McCann yet….

He’s been on the radio

[mushRTID]

No interview from McCann yet….

He’s been on the radio

What did he say as our media team aren’t as quick as normal?

[pib]

I hope those who say Close and Westbrooke don't do anything were watching today. Without them we can’t string three passes together.

[dickos1]

No interview from McCann yet….

He’s been on the radio

What did he say as our media team aren’t as quick as normal?

Worst performance of season, deserved to be booed etc etc

[jmt23]

Jones has been ok all season - I will give you today he wasn’t! However most goals today were not his fault, just really poor defending.

Biggins is not good enough, he is a midfield Omar bogle, runs up and down without touching the ball or having an impact on the game - does score the odd blinder, but not enough.

Centre backs -  just appalling, I am lost for words how bad we have been in defence for the last few seasons.

The rest are a decent beginning of a team, but only if they do the basics. Today they were all void of pace, desire, movement - and only when the young lads came on did we show a small amount of desire, but by that time Morecambe had the cigars out, the keeper even put a smoking jacket on such was his confidence we wouldn’t score, even if we played for another week.
They were better than us in every position and they are a below average team in quality from what I could see.

[Lesonthewest]

No interview from McCann yet….

I'm hoping they're still locked in the dressing room, so they can't pop off home & relax watching the strictly final. Get them training tomorrow aswell, make them realise this won't be accepted ever again under his management.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I cant believe what I have just watched. In my opinion we were playing with 7 men first half...Jones, Biggins, Hurst and Faal were all absolutely hopeless.

Don't mean to bang on about the goalie again but we had 2 out of contract keepers in the summer. We go and bring one in who everyone knew wasn't good enough and now he's sat on the bench behind a goalie who we also knew isn't good enough! Its a massive f**k up.

The rest of it you can look at injuries but that starting 11 should still have been better than that.

That last sentence sums it up.

Yes we have injuries, but we had a group of players available today who were far better than what we reduced to by the end of March last year.

We were shit then, but I never saw a performance as gutless and clueless as today's.

There are some serious questions to ask about the rot in this club. I'd start by asking why it is that every side we play against seems to have more energy, strength and aggression than we do.

The ppg average has now dropped to 1.14. That’s 52 points come season unless there is a dramatic upturn in form . And for what it’s worth I think that’s where this team is at currently.

The upturn since the first 7 games has been there for all to see. Today was dreadful but since the forest green game we’ve been in play off form.

Folk keep going on about how good we have been if you exclude the first 7 games.

Let's follow the logic. I'm not keen on this "if you ignore the first seven, we've been in playoff form since". (We probably haven't quite. 22 points per 14 games probably won't hit the average required for the playoffs this year, but no matter, let's accept that.)

Question is, is it fair to divide the season into A Bad Start and A Good Rest? It all feels a bit conveniently arbitrary.

As it happens, the season to date divides into three groups of 7 games.

First 7 - 2 points
Second 7 - 15 points
Third 7 - 7 points.

So in fact, it's a bit of a stretch to say we've been in playoff form apart from a bad start. We've actually had one excellent run, sandwiched between two spells of bottom 4 form.

And here's the worry, of course. In that excellent spell, we won 9 points from sides in the current bottom 4, and the other 6 from sides who were then higher in the table, but who were at the start of serious nosedives in form. (A bit like us last year eh? Flattering to deceive initially, but really not very good.)

It worries me greatly. Looking at the results that way, we really haven't been in playoff form since the rocky start. We were flat track bullies for a brief period. And we've dropped back into poor form since.

[DonnyOsmond]

The table from 15th September has us 7th.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:league-two/daterange/fromdate:2023-Sep-15/todate:2024-Jun-01/type:home-and-away/

[BillyStubbsTears]

The table from 15th September has us 7th.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:league-two/daterange/fromdate:2023-Sep-15/todate:2024-Jun-01/type:home-and-away/

It does.

But my point is that period splits in 2.

The table from 15 Sept to 21 Oct had us in 2nd place. Which was great.

But the table since then has us 4th bottom.

And yes, we have had injuries. But no worse than we had when the wheels came off last year. I don't think Schofield was a particularly strong manager. But I've always thought the criticism of him was way over the top. If he'd had a run that included the equal second worst home defeat in our post War history, coming not long after another home thumping against a team that is one of the weaker ones in our league, with the players available during that period, the criticisms would have rightly been very, very vocal.

[dickos1]

It’s irrelevant if it splits into two,
The fact of the matter is, that since our first win 3 months ago, we have been accruing points at a rate that would get us into the playoffs over a season.
All teams have up and down spells, but the first 7 games were an obvious period of adjustment and a new team. Since that time we have seen a drastic improvement in performance and results. That is pretty obvious

[BillyStubbsTears]

It’s irrelevant if it splits into two,
The fact of the matter is, that since our first win 3 months ago, we have been accruing points at a rate that would get us into the playoffs over a season.
All teams have up and down spells, but the first 7 games were an obvious period of adjustment and a new team. Since that time we have seen a drastic improvement in performance and results. That is pretty obvious

Yes! But who have we won the overwhelming majority of those points against?!? In those 14 games, we have won 15 points in 5 games against sides currently in the bottom 7.

It's great that we won those. But in the other 9 games, our  results have been

P9 W2 D1 L6 F6 A15 PTS7

THAT'S the point some of us are trying to make.

[dickos1]

It’s just rubbish trying to say we only won games against teams struggling especially when looking back at games.
Swindon and Gillingham were top 3 when we played them, they’re not anymore.
We’ve also lost to Stockport, Crewe, barrow, Wrexham, by the odd goal in games that could’ve easily gone either way, that’s 4 of the top 5.
So to suggest we’re not improving is nonsense.
Let’s see where we are at the end of jan and I’ll have a wager with you that we’re in the top half

[colincramb]

It’s just rubbish trying to say we only won games against teams struggling especially when looking back at games.
Swindon and Gillingham were top 3 when we played them, they’re not anymore.
We’ve also lost to Stockport, Crewe, barrow, Wrexham, by the odd goal in games that could’ve easily gone either way, that’s 4 of the top 5.
So to suggest we’re not improving is nonsense.
Let’s see where we are at the end of jan and I’ll have a wager with you that we’re in the top half

You really don’t like any kind of deep analysis other than scratching the surface, do you? That’s probably why your arguments get blown to pieces

[andy didcott]

I would love us to be in the top half of the table at the end of next month, will that happen,? nobody knows right now.

[dickos1]

It’s just rubbish trying to say we only won games against teams struggling especially when looking back at games.
Swindon and Gillingham were top 3 when we played them, they’re not anymore.
We’ve also lost to Stockport, Crewe, barrow, Wrexham, by the odd goal in games that could’ve easily gone either way, that’s 4 of the top 5.
So to suggest we’re not improving is nonsense.
Let’s see where we are at the end of jan and I’ll have a wager with you that we’re in the top half

You really don’t like any kind of deep analysis other than scratching the surface, do you? That’s probably why your arguments get blown to pieces

Deep analysis ha ha
It’s a very simple analysis, we started the season off very poor and we’ve improved significantly over the last 3 months.
It’s very simple really,
My argument hasn’t been blown to pieces, there’s just folk like yourself who just love to search for negativity,

[NickDRFC]

It’s just rubbish trying to say we only won games against teams struggling especially when looking back at games.
Swindon and Gillingham were top 3 when we played them, they’re not anymore.
We’ve also lost to Stockport, Crewe, barrow, Wrexham, by the odd goal in games that could’ve easily gone either way, that’s 4 of the top 5.
So to suggest we’re not improving is nonsense.
Let’s see where we are at the end of jan and I’ll have a wager with you that we’re in the top half

You really don’t like any kind of deep analysis other than scratching the surface, do you? That’s probably why your arguments get blown to pieces

Deep analysis ha ha
It’s a very simple analysis, we started the season off very poor and we’ve improved significantly over the last 3 months.
It’s very simple really,
My argument hasn’t been blown to pieces, there’s just folk like yourself who just love to search for negativity,

But by the same token, we have got worse over the past 2 months. In the past 2 months, we’ve got 10 points from 8 games (and 7 from the last 7). This is against some pretty modest sides and only one in the current top 7. Our results and performances definitely improved, but since then they’ve dropped off that level - do you not find that concerning?

[ncRover]

Close should be fit for Friday McCann said.

Broadbent is categorically better than Biggins but he’s out for 6 weeks.

We need a playmaker in January in the middle of the pitch or we are in big trouble.

I would try going back to 4-3-3 with Sterry (he can actually cross unlike Nixon) and Molyneux on the right and Senior and a new signing on the left.

McCann made a big cock up signing Sotona (Gaz was right - a Reo style gamble) and Tyler Roberts so had to change the system.

[Chris Black come back]

Hurst wasn’t great yesterday but in a 433 he should be a candidate for the left. For some reason played on right yesterday in first half.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Too much trying to prove or disprove a point for the sake of an argument here when dickos1 comments are generally true.

We have improved as the season has progressed but whilst we recognised we're still short of the finished article, there was evidence we were moving in the right direction. The injuries started to clear up and we were commenting how much stronger the bench was looking.

Then, within no time at all, that has flipped again, with further injuries and the news of the players that could be out for the rest of the season.

Nobody in their right mind would be thinking these further absences going into a busy period wouldn't affect performances when once again, we're stretching the squad and McCann is patching up. We hope we can dig in and might get away with it and keep pace with teams around us to limit the damage.

Yesterday was one of those cruel games where those hopes of getting away with it, were exposed when those weaknesses were laid bare for all to see.

Unfortunately it's not new, all of our recent managers have suffered similarly. When the wheels fall off, it's extremely difficult to get them back on and rolling again when confidence takes a hit. Even Pep suffers with injuries. Players are not robots that can be easily replaced. Players are inconsistent etc.

It's not too long ago with a similar situation when the likes of Matt Smith and Ethan Galbraith found themselves shouldering the burden in midfield game after game when their more experienced team mates were on the treatment table. It's not sustainable.

We've just got to hope McCann can get these boys to respond and not get too down and into a losing rut.

Next Friday will be a huge test for everyone after yesterday, including the fans getting behind the team to support them through this.

[Filo]

I hope Grant is laying into them this morning on their cancelled day off, some home truths need to be told to certain players, and the whole squad needs to man up and get a nasty streak instead of rolling over and having their belly’s tickled

[Chris Black come back]

Tactics yesterday were a bit of a mystery. Given the absence of a midfield I think the plan was to hit long balls early up to Ironside and Faal. But these were poor balls often and as nobody was running with or past them, if they did connect there was nobody anywhere near them. Mystery why no wide player once managed to get past Faal or Ironside the entire game. Then our set pieces when we had them were absolutely dire.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Just poor execution of the plan and finding ourselves a goal down on 7 mins.

Next 20 mins trying to get back in the game and could have easily been level when Faal blazed wide. These moments are huge as we know.

[Butchers Red]

Rovers need to urgently address the terrible quality of crossing, both in open play and from dead ball situations - it's been a factor in our under achieving all season long so far.

All through the first half Morecambe were wide open at the back, Mo and Joe were in the right places but we either under hit or over hit every ball in to them, Sterry appears to be the only one capable of hitting a red shirt in Maxwell's absence.

Without central midfielders who can play - and when teams sit back this weakness is killing us game after game.

[Chris Black come back]

Bizarrely as it seems, there are some positives:

1. We are dredging around the bottom depths of League Two and have just had an appalling hammering at home, yet nobody is calling for McCann to go or even really questioning him. That absence of pressure on him and the board is a real bonus. He’s a good manager and will deliver.

2. While there are some big spending clubs certainly, if we get our act remotely together at any stage, we should all things being equal given resources, become competitive very quickly.

3. It doesn’t account for everything but a large part of our failures this season has come from injury shitshow. We’d be much better with a squad fitness around the average for this league.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Bizarrely as it seems, there are some positives:

1. We are dredging around the bottom depths of League Two and have just had an appalling hammering at home, yet nobody is calling for McCann to go or even really questioning him. That absence of pressure on him and the board is a real bonus. He’s a good manager and will deliver.

2. While there are some big spending clubs certainly, if we get our act remotely together at any stage, we should all things being equal given resources, become competitive very quickly.

3. It doesn’t account for everything but a large part of our failures this season has come from injury shitshow. We’d be much better with a squad fitness around the average for this league.

Would agree with all that. I don't think McCann will have been presented with any new problems yesterday, as all our weaknesses were compounded in one match.

It doesn't really change the direction he wants to go, just cements his assessment of one or two players who he knows have limited shelf life. Unfortunately though, he still needs them in the short term.

Berating McCann, or starting to get on his back is the last thing we need. Whilst he may not be the messiah, he's as near as we're going to get.



We have to hope he's convinced the board to continue to support him in the direction he wants to go in the meeting he had on Thursday. However, it's still down to him to find a way of convincing players to come to this club, particularly if they have other options. That's simply not just down to money in January (unless we're prepared to pay over the odds, in terms of wages and/or contract length etc.)

He's not daft, so he'll know what's realistic and what isn't.