Trump again

[BillyStubbsTears]

In fairness to Trump, I think I understand what he was trying to say in his rant.

It was all about how the courts are broken because all these good people have been prosecuted for "normal" business actions.

I think that's the clue.

What he means is "normal" for him.

[River Don]

I'm just digesting Trump calling Biden the most corrupt president in history right after becoming the first president in history to become a convicted fellon.

It's simply following Putin's playbook of accusing your opponent with whatever is levelled at you.

It's playground stuff on the most serious stage.

[River Don]

I'm also left scratching my head as to how, suppose devout Americans in the middle states continue to support a convicted criminal and a thoroughly immoral man.

It's difficult to understand. can anyone explain it?

[scawsby steve]

OK, guys, I don't want to get too much into this, but we all want to be around next April to see Rovers get promoted. If a nuclear war kicks off, Putin has made it clear that the UK is getting it first. Under whose administration in the USA is that scenario most likely to happen?

Ask the experts, both military and political. They'll tell you.

If Trump appeases Putin and surrenders Ukraine by cancelling all support, do you think that will make Europe safer?

We already know Putin is eyeing up Moldova and Georgia. He's already making threatening noises to the Baltics, Poland, Finland and Sweden. We know about his ambition to rebuild a Russian empire.

Surrendering Ukraine will just hand Putin a new reservoir of conscripted troops.

The lesson of WWII is appeasement doesn't work.

Our old ally Poland can see the threat, they are on the frontline and they are investigating heavily in the military. They probably have the most effective conventional forces in Europe now. We should take note.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only talking about the 2 different scenarios of the 2 candidates.

However, if it does kick off, I don't think anti-radiation tablets will do much good.

[River Don]

OK, guys, I don't want to get too much into this, but we all want to be around next April to see Rovers get promoted. If a nuclear war kicks off, Putin has made it clear that the UK is getting it first. Under whose administration in the USA is that scenario most likely to happen?

Ask the experts, both military and political. They'll tell you.

If Trump appeases Putin and surrenders Ukraine by cancelling all support, do you think that will make Europe safer?

We already know Putin is eyeing up Moldova and Georgia. He's already making threatening noises to the Baltics, Poland, Finland and Sweden. We know about his ambition to rebuild a Russian empire.

Surrendering Ukraine will just hand Putin a new reservoir of conscripted troops.

The lesson of WWII is appeasement doesn't work.

Our old ally Poland can see the threat, they are on the frontline and they are investigating heavily in the military. They probably have the most effective conventional forces in Europe now. We should take note.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only talking about the 2 different scenarios of the 2 candidates.

However, if it does kick off, I don't think anti-radiation tablets will do much good.

It won't kick off because irritating the atmosphere doesn't suit anyone.

Unless Putin really is unhinged, in which case we have to pray that those closest to him will understand

[MachoMadness]

I'm also left scratching my head as to how, suppose devout Americans in the middle states continue to support a convicted criminal and a thoroughly immoral man.

It's difficult to understand. can anyone explain it?

Abortion. The main reason is simple as that really. They want it banned, permanently, by stuffing the supreme court, which is ultimately what happened when Trump got in last time.

Got to remember that American evangelicalism is a very different beast from most other branches of Christianity. It's almost its own separate religious cult that has very little to do with the bible and a lot more to do with political extremism.

[River Don]

The abortion thing is something else that genuinely sails over my head .

I know the objection is not about the welfare of the child. For one thing they don't mind putting people to death and indulging in all sorts of cruelty

But now they are preventing abortions by law, they are moving on to banning contraception.

What is that all about?

I dunno, when it comes to religion there is this ancient animal side to humanity that I can't grasp.

[scawsby steve]

OK, guys, I don't want to get too much into this, but we all want to be around next April to see Rovers get promoted. If a nuclear war kicks off, Putin has made it clear that the UK is getting it first. Under whose administration in the USA is that scenario most likely to happen?

Ask the experts, both military and political. They'll tell you.

If Trump appeases Putin and surrenders Ukraine by cancelling all support, do you think that will make Europe safer?

We already know Putin is eyeing up Moldova and Georgia. He's already making threatening noises to the Baltics, Poland, Finland and Sweden. We know about his ambition to rebuild a Russian empire.

Surrendering Ukraine will just hand Putin a new reservoir of conscripted troops.

The lesson of WWII is appeasement doesn't work.

Our old ally Poland can see the threat, they are on the frontline and they are investigating heavily in the military. They probably have the most effective conventional forces in Europe now. We should take note.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only talking about the 2 different scenarios of the 2 candidates.

However, if it does kick off, I don't think anti-radiation tablets will do much good.

It won't kick off because irritating the atmosphere doesn't suit anyone.

Unless Putin really is unhinged, in which case we have to pray that those closest to him will understand

You're right with that last sentence, RD. Lots of people think that leaders of nuclear nations have a red button under their desk that they simply press. They don't; there's a huge protocol they have to go through that involves a lot of people.

If those people have doubts about the sanity of the leader, they won't obey the command.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The abortion thing is something else that genuinely sails over my head .

I know the objection is not about the welfare of the child. For one thing they don't mind putting people to death and indulging in all sorts of cruelty

But now they are preventing abortions by law, they are moving on to banning contraception.

What is that all about?

I dunno, when it comes to religion there is this ancient animal side to humanity that I can't grasp.

It's about power dynamics.

Banning abortion is about exerting power over feckless, I'll disciplined women.

You see the attitude in here regularly. Multiply that by millions in the fundamentalist Christian states.

[River Don]

Be fruitful and multiply seems to be a big thing in religions all over the globe. It's a deep thing.

It will be the death of us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

[River Don]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

Maybe but I guess it's based on a primeval urge.

I suspect we are not better then bacteria eating all the nutrients in a petridish as fast as possible.

I know you're not keen on Malthus.

Right now though, thanks to climate change, we see olive and orange production coming under stress because of extreme temperatures encouraging disease in those trees. Even here in the UK we see excessive rainfall impacting on potato crops.

It's not one off, this is the new normal. Scary stuff.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think we generally improve with time. We become more rational. Less governed by superstition and appeal to gut instinct over sober analysis.

But we sometimes go backwards for a while. America is doing, certainly. It's quite a shock to see how quickly the Right in America has become so removed from rationality.

[River Don]

Mmm. I agree but I think time is against us.

So much to do. So little time.

[River Don]

It's noticeable how such conversations are absent from the election.

Heseltine is right when he says this is the most dishonest election ever.

[scawsby steve]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

You missed out atheism on that list, BST.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Jong Un.

[River Don]

Architecture.

The socialists believed in an unornamented efficient building process that would bring affordable housing to the masses.

Capitalism saw a cheap way of building that was more efficient.

Either way we tend to end up with distopian inhuman cheap living spaces.

[scawsby steve]

Architecture.

The socialists believed in an unornamented efficient building process that would bring affordable housing to the masses.

Capitalism saw a cheap way of building that was more efficient.

Either way we tend to end up with distopian inhuman cheap living spaces.

Now there's a good point, RD. What's Starmer going to do about housing when he gets in?

[River Don]

Architecture.

The socialists believed in an unornamented efficient building process that would bring affordable housing to the masses.

Capitalism saw a cheap way of building that was more efficient.

Either way we tend to end up with distopian inhuman cheap living spaces.

Now there's a good point, RD. What's Starmer going to do about housing when he gets in?

God knows because as Farage pointed out, we are building a new house every two minutes and that isn't keeping up.

We can't increase the rate rapidly and already we are building on inappropriate places, flood plains and so on.

Last winter we saw flooding in new estates in Retford and Catcliffe. It's mad.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's no good building houses that people who need houses can't afford. We need to be building more bottom-rung terraced housing and not loads of expensive semis. But building companies only want to build semis because there's more profit there. I'd have a policy of only giving planning permission for new semis if an equivalent amount of affordable terraced housing was built too. And the terraced housing would have to be built first so they can't backslide out of it if they build the semis first.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I know you're not keen on Malthus.

Right now though, thanks to climate change, we see olive and orange production coming under stress because of extreme temperatures encouraging disease in those trees. Even here in the UK we see excessive rainfall impacting on potato crops.

It's not one off, this is the new normal. Scary stuff.

Malthus hypothesised that population growth being exponential whilst food production is linear causes food demand to outstrip production, not that climate conditions or plant disease did so.

[ravenrover]

f**king hell, Trump is upping the ante with that speech.

Accusing the judge of being conflicted and a devil.

He's going all in. He knows that if this conviction tips the voters against him, he'll end up in prison for the rest of his life. So he's claiming the entire legal system is broken.

That's a man who wants to be President, saying the courts are f**ked. Imagine what he's doing if he gets back in as President.

Well the 1st thing he'll do is pardon himself of all charges against him

[Colin C No.3]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

You missed out atheism on that list, BST.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Jong Un.

How do you make out that atheism is another way of asserting patriarchal authority?

I’m an atheist & having worked on the front line of the NHS would argue all day long that women should have parity with men on every front.

My wife is an atheist too, as I’m sure are many other women.

Look at our world & tell me there is a superior authority ‘looking down on us’ that is ‘there’ for our well-being.

[BillyStubbsTears]

f**king hell, Trump is upping the ante with that speech.

Accusing the judge of being conflicted and a devil.

He's going all in. He knows that if this conviction tips the voters against him, he'll end up in prison for the rest of his life. So he's claiming the entire legal system is broken.

That's a man who wants to be President, saying the courts are f**ked. Imagine what he's doing if he gets back in as President.

Well the 1st thing he'll do is pardon himself of all charges against him

I'm not sure he can, because they are charges brought by state prosecutors, not Federal ones.

[scawsby steve]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

You missed out atheism on that list, BST.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Jong Un.

How do you make out that atheism is another way of asserting patriarchal authority?

I’m an atheist & having worked on the front line of the NHS would argue all day long that women should have parity with men on every front.

My wife is an atheist too, as I’m sure are many other women.

Look at our world & tell me there is a superior authority ‘looking down on us’ that is ‘there’ for our well-being.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you or anyone else about faith. As I've said on here many times, it's a personal and private thing, and there's no scientific proof either way. You're right that some women are atheists, although in my lifetime I've found women in general to be more spiritual than men.

On the subject of women, I've been an advocate of them having the same parity with men on earnings for a long time. As soon as women footballers start filling stadiums, which will soon begin to happen, they should get the same pay as the men.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The point is, patriarchal authority IS a fundamental tenet of Catholicism. There's no arguing that, it's a straightforward fact and has been since St Paul brought Aristotle's opinions into Christianity.

Genuinely good for you SS in going against the philosophy of your Church, but don't be under any illusions about it. You ARE going against their teachings.

[Iberian Red]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

You missed out atheism on that list, BST.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Jong Un.

How do you make out that atheism is another way of asserting patriarchal authority?

I’m an atheist & having worked on the front line of the NHS would argue all day long that women should have parity with men on every front.

My wife is an atheist too, as I’m sure are many other women.

Look at our world & tell me there is a superior authority ‘looking down on us’ that is ‘there’ for our well-being.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you or anyone else about faith. As I've said on here many times, it's a personal and private thing, and there's no scientific proof either way. You're right that some women are atheists, although in my lifetime I've found women in general to be more spiritual than men.

On the subject of women, I've been an advocate of them having the same parity with men on earnings for a long time. As soon as women footballers start filling stadiums, which will soon begin to happen, they should get the same pay as the men.

Lad, you've just got into a debate about something you weren't going to debate.
It's not going very well for you.

[scawsby steve]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

You missed out atheism on that list, BST.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Jong Un.

How do you make out that atheism is another way of asserting patriarchal authority?

I’m an atheist & having worked on the front line of the NHS would argue all day long that women should have parity with men on every front.

My wife is an atheist too, as I’m sure are many other women.

Look at our world & tell me there is a superior authority ‘looking down on us’ that is ‘there’ for our well-being.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you or anyone else about faith. As I've said on here many times, it's a personal and private thing, and there's no scientific proof either way. You're right that some women are atheists, although in my lifetime I've found women in general to be more spiritual than men.

On the subject of women, I've been an advocate of them having the same parity with men on earnings for a long time. As soon as women footballers start filling stadiums, which will soon begin to happen, they should get the same pay as the men.

Lad, you've just got into a debate about something you weren't going to debate.
It's not going very well for you.

What the f*ck are you blathering on about now? He made a statement addressed to me, I answered it. He declared himself an atheist, as though anyone's interested, I replied that not everyone is, which they aren't.

You're on form today with the sniping and sneering. What's up, has someone taken your lass and left a pair of nylons?

[Iberian Red]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

You missed out atheism on that list, BST.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Jong Un.

How do you make out that atheism is another way of asserting patriarchal authority?

I’m an atheist & having worked on the front line of the NHS would argue all day long that women should have parity with men on every front.

My wife is an atheist too, as I’m sure are many other women.

Look at our world & tell me there is a superior authority ‘looking down on us’ that is ‘there’ for our well-being.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you or anyone else about faith. As I've said on here many times, it's a personal and private thing, and there's no scientific proof either way. You're right that some women are atheists, although in my lifetime I've found women in general to be more spiritual than men.

On the subject of women, I've been an advocate of them having the same parity with men on earnings for a long time. As soon as women footballers start filling stadiums, which will soon begin to happen, they should get the same pay as the men.

Lad, you've just got into a debate about something you weren't going to debate.
It's not going very well for you.

What the f*ck are you blathering on about now? He made a statement addressed to me, I answered it. He declared himself an atheist, as though anyone's interested, I replied that not everyone is, which they aren't.

You're on form today with the sniping and sneering. What's up, has someone taken your lass and left a pair of nylons?

OMG
You made me giggle SS.

[River Don]

I'm not sure it's even as based as that.

It's just a way of asserting patriarchal authority.

Islam does it.
Catholicism does it.
Fundamentalist Protestantism does it.

It's about control and authority.

You missed out atheism on that list, BST.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Jong Un.

How do you make out that atheism is another way of asserting patriarchal authority?

I’m an atheist & having worked on the front line of the NHS would argue all day long that women should have parity with men on every front.

My wife is an atheist too, as I’m sure are many other women.

Look at our world & tell me there is a superior authority ‘looking down on us’ that is ‘there’ for our well-being.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you or anyone else about faith. As I've said on here many times, it's a personal and private thing, and there's no scientific proof either way. You're right that some women are atheists, although in my lifetime I've found women in general to be more spiritual than men.

On the subject of women, I've been an advocate of them having the same parity with men on earnings for a long time. As soon as women footballers start filling stadiums, which will soon begin to happen, they should get the same pay as the men.

There is growing evidence that an Omniptesent creator doesn't exist. The theists are ever being squeezed into a corner. Since they are the ones making bold claims, it's really up to them to prove it but all they have is blind faith. Just believe it without question.

Seen objectively, Christianity is an obscure middle eastern cult adopted by the Roman empire (Constantine proclaimed in York) as a more efficient form of social control