General Election

[scawsby steve]

Bloody hell, mandatory national service for young people. That's confirmed it; Sunak definitely has had enough and wants to f*ck off to his ranch in California.

[ncRover]

Bloody hell, mandatory national service for young people. That's confirmed it; Sunak definitely has had enough and wants to f*ck off to his ranch in California.

“Home Secretary James Cleverly said National Service will help bottle the “Blitz Spirit” we saw during the pandemic.”

Cringe.

[ncRover]

I’m sure there’s no coincidence that the time Cleverly’s quote refers to was their highest post-election peak in polling. (Correct me if I’m wrong).

They’re just trying to run off vague vibes aren’t they?

[MachoMadness]

Embarrassing. Guess this is what he spent his day off dreaming up. Piss weak bait for Daily Mail readers who hate their kids.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jesus f**king wept.

It's like that episode of the Thick of It, where they spent a day trying to come up with a name for the kind of True British qualities they wanted to support, and settled on "Quiet Bat-People".

Imagine being a moderately competent minister and having to go into the TV studios tomorrow morning to bat for this.

f**king ludicrous.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Embarrassing. Guess this is what he spent his day off dreaming up. Piss weak bait for Daily Mail readers who hate their kids.

https://x.com/RobDotHutton/status/1794484867750568215/photo/1

[drfchound]

Fake news.

[Bentley Bullet]

Fake news.

Hound, how dare you suggest it's fake news? I'll have you know it's on Twitter!

[GazLaz]

Fake news.

The National Service story? It’s on the front page of every paper tomorrow.

[Colin C No.3]

Fake news.

The National Service story? It’s on the front page of every paper tomorrow.

The Mirror & People run with ‘Eamon & Ruth Split Shock’.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bloody hell, mandatory national service for young people. That's confirmed it; Sunak definitely has had enough and wants to f*ck off to his ranch in California.

“Home Secretary James Cleverly said National Service will help bottle the “Blitz Spirit” we saw during the pandemic.”

Cringe.

What's the next plan? Ask the Luftwaffe to bomb us every night to bring back the real Blitz Spirit?

[turnbull for england]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

[IDM]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

[ncRover]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Being 18 is a really difficult stage in life, there’s a lot going on in life while you’re still trying to work out how the world works.

On top of that, if your lad and others had to be taken out of work it’s lost tax revenue for the government on top of the initial spending for this pointless policy.

And shops and bars will be short staffed on weekends with this! More stress on small businesses.

[IDM]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Being 18 is a really difficult stage in life, there’s a lot going on in life while you’re still trying to work out how the world works.

On top of that, if your lad and others had to be taken out of work it’s lost tax revenue for the government on top of the initial spending for this pointless policy.

And shops and bars will be short staffed on weekends with this! More stress on small businesses.

Make it for the unemployed?

[drfchound]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

I’m with you on this IDM.
It should be for the types who are out at night stealing from people, car thieves, drug dealers and anti social kids.
Better for all involved than being sent to prison.

Those like the ones mentioned by Turnbull shouldn’t be drafted.

[Not Now Kato]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

I’m with you on this IDM.
It should be for the types who are out at night stealing from people, car thieves, drug dealers and anti social kids.
Better for all involved than being sent to prison.

Those like the ones mentioned by Turnbull shouldn’t be drafted.

Where is the infrastructure to mange this Hound? You seem to be another easily swayed by a headline without thinking it through.

[ncRover]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

I’m with you on this IDM.
It should be for the types who are out at night stealing from people, car thieves, drug dealers and anti social kids.
Better for all involved than being sent to prison.

Those like the ones mentioned by Turnbull shouldn’t be drafted.

So someone like that should be helping out unsupervised at a MacMillan coffee morning?

[drfchound]

Fake news.

The National Service story? It’s on the front page of every paper tomorrow.

I was commenting on the picture of Sunak allegedly asking an old lady about whether she would vote for them if they were to kill her grandchildren.
It was posted in isolation with no explanation about what it was linked to and for those of us who don’t do Twitter it meant nothing but what it portrayed.
I suppose it is a bit like blocking posters on here and not understanding a whole conversation because a part of it isn’t being read.

[IDM]

Just for your info NNK I've long been an advocate of National Service (of sorts, not necessarily for everyone), to instil a sense of discipline in those who would benefit.  Some would still rebel as they always would.

Nowt to do with today's headlines, just prompted to discuss it now.  As for infrastructure, no it's not there and would take years to implement, but it's the principle of having a National Service option I support.

As for a GE/political angle however, it's a very weak element to persuade voters.  It doesn't tip the balance for me.  Far far down on priorities.

[drfchound]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

I’m with you on this IDM.
It should be for the types who are out at night stealing from people, car thieves, drug dealers and anti social kids.
Better for all involved than being sent to prison.

Those like the ones mentioned by Turnbull shouldn’t be drafted.

So someone like that should be helping out unsupervised at a MacMillan coffee morning?

Why would they have to be unsupervised.

[drfchound]

Just for your info NNK I've long been an advocate of National Service (of sorts, not necessarily for everyone), to instil a sense of discipline in those who would benefit.  Some would still rebel as they always would.

Nowt to do with today's headlines, just prompted to discuss it now.  As for infrastructure, no it's not there and would take years to implement, but it's the principle of having a National Service option I support.

As for a GE/political angle however, it's a very weak element to persuade voters.  It doesn't tip the balance for me.  Far far down on priorities.

Again, I’m with you on this IDM.

If that’s ok with you NNK.

[ncRover]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

I’m with you on this IDM.
It should be for the types who are out at night stealing from people, car thieves, drug dealers and anti social kids.
Better for all involved than being sent to prison.

Those like the ones mentioned by Turnbull shouldn’t be drafted.

So someone like that should be helping out unsupervised at a MacMillan coffee morning?

Why would they have to be unsupervised.

Exactly, that shows how this would turn in to a more expensive and disorganised mess, hound.

I see what you’re saying in principle, but that isn’t what’s being proposed by Sunak. It’s for every 18 year old.

[ChrisBx]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

I’m with you on this IDM.
It should be for the types who are out at night stealing from people, car thieves, drug dealers and anti social kids.
Better for all involved than being sent to prison.

Those like the ones mentioned by Turnbull shouldn’t be drafted.

So someone like that should be helping out unsupervised at a MacMillan coffee morning?

Why would they have to be unsupervised.

I work in one of the organisations that would apparently be used as an alternative to military service. It would be entirely unsafe not to have them supervised... and due to austerity cuts over the years, we have nowhere near enough members of staff to facilitate this.

It's a pathetic policy suggestion that crumbles under any real scrutiny of the practicalities.

[drfchound]

My lads 18, he's at work today . Been there since six , like yesterday saving up for Uni whilst he finishes his college course. Most of his mates are exactly same. What benefits would he be getting by presumably not being paid 'volunteering' in NHS or similar. I'm 51 old enough to have known blokes who did national service and described it as organised bullying doing menial tasks . If there is 1.5 billion to pay to develop the young as this fag packet panic proposal reckons it needs, there's equally same number of better ideas to spend it on.

Maybe the National Service proposals shouldn't be aimed at everyone, as you rightly point out, some like your lad and his mates clearly don't need it and are setting a fine example.

Perhaps this should be used as a backstop for those who won't try to (or can't) better themselves?

I’m with you on this IDM.
It should be for the types who are out at night stealing from people, car thieves, drug dealers and anti social kids.
Better for all involved than being sent to prison.

Those like the ones mentioned by Turnbull shouldn’t be drafted.

So someone like that should be helping out unsupervised at a MacMillan coffee morning?

Why would they have to be unsupervised.

Exactly, that shows how this would turn in to a more expensive and disorganised mess, hound.

I see what you’re saying in principle, but that isn’t what’s being proposed by Sunak. It’s for every 18 year old.

As I have said, I agree that it shouldn’t be for every 18 year old.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I'm all for it if it's paid, unpaid absolutely not.  Just look at the countries that employ those kinds of schemes, ones that often are lauded as having better quality of life (Sweden, Denmark, France etc).  It has legs if it was done correctly.

[danumdon]

I'm all for it if it's paid, unpaid absolutely not.  Just look at the countries that employ those kinds of schemes, ones that often are lauded as having better quality of life (Sweden, Denmark, France etc).  It has legs if it was done correctly.

This is exactly why it would never work in this country.

The countries you mentioned still have a semblance of family and community responsability that we in this country have lost. We have people who live next door to each other who never even say hello never mind pass the time of day. I lived in London for 5 years, you never even knew who your neighbours were from one week to the next it was so transient.

Its this broken and isolationist attitude that this type of initiative would attempt to correct.

I grew up in a very socially disadvantaged area that had a great many issues to contend with, its one saving grace was that people knew each other, they were all in it together and people genuinely cared about each other and were ready and willing to help out.

Ive no idea what its like these days, but i've travelled through and it doesn't look great, its often in the local press for a variety of things that one would never wish to be involved in and reads like its pretty dire.

These are the areas of towns and cities that need some sort of help and assistance to improve the lot for the average citizen, if a government in power could attempt to correct these imbalances it would help massively in great many areas, like underachievement, crime, anti social behaviour, education and social acceptability.

Its been happening over that many years that it looks like government of all colours have struggled with the concept.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm picturing the discussions at Sunak's emergency reboot meeting yesterday.

Sunak: We're f**ked. I've f**ked it up.

Bright Young Adviser: Well, you HAVE been pretty shite, but there's 6 weeks left. Let's think.

Sunak: Who votes for us?

BYA: Racist pensioners and the rich.

Sunak: Well we're giving the rich tax cuts. What do the racist pensioners want?

BYA: Well they want someone to f**k over foreigners and other people's kids. We have to show we can do that, or they'll f**k off and vote for Farage.

Sunak: Well we gave them Brexit and Rwanda (yeah, ok, I know we didn't, but we chucked them the red meat). So that's the foreigners dealt with.

BYA: So. Other people's kids?

Sunak: Ok. How do we show how much we hate them?

BYA: Well. We f**ked their economic futures through Austerity. They can't afford houses. They haven't got pensions. Then we did Brexit to satisfy the old folk. That stops the young ones having the connections with Europe that they want. We took away a year of young folks' lives during COVID to save old people. And never once thanked them. And of course we've got that cracking policy of telling foreign students we don't want them subsidising our young people's university education. So that f**ks both groups.

Sunak: So what have we got left?

BYA: Ummm...

Sunak: Oh f**k it. Let's put them in uniforms and have them clean up dog shite.

[Ldr]

Christ you have an obsession to label everyone who’s not in agreement with you been racist, seek help mate, regardless of what goes on this forum your mental state needs looking at

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

I know you sometimes have trouble with the finer points so let me explain.

1) I don't call ANYONE racist unless they say racist things. I disagree profoundly with you on many things, but as far as I can recall, you've never given any hint of supporting racist ideas. And I have never called you racist.

2) I believe that all of us have the responsibility to confront racist ideas whenever we come across them. Don't you?

3) I don't say the Tory party is trying to appeal to racists in a flippant way. It's shit through so many of their policies.

If you disagree with any of that, be grown up and argue each example I give on its merits. Rather than doing shit amateur psychoanalysis to convince yourself I'm wrong.