Possession

[GazLaz]

Breaking down and comparing the average possession we have compared to the final results is interesting.

In games we have won our average possession is 50%

In games we have lost it is 59%

In games we have drawn it is 52%

N.B I have taken the Chesterfield numbers out of this as that game was so distorted by the red cards.

Fairly clear where our strengths and weaknesses are from that cross section.

[Campsall rover]

Breaking down and comparing the average possession we have compared to the final results is interesting.

In games we have won our average possession is 50%

In games we have lost it is 59%

In games we have drawn it is 52%

N.B I have taken the Chesterfield numbers out of this as that game was so distorted by the red cards.

Fairly clear where our strengths and weaknesses are from that cross section.

I think that means nothing.
It’s all about goals scored and goals conceded.
Football matches are won and lost in both penalty areas.

The number of stats now are quite unbelievable. The only 2 that really matter are the 2 above.
It doesn’t matter one jot how much possession you have or don’t have.

It is simply how you find a way not to concede goals and how to score goals.
Football is a very simple game of pass and move. It seems in the modern day there are people trying to make out it is far more complex than that. Well imo it isn’t.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Breaking down and comparing the average possession we have compared to the final results is interesting.

In games we have won our average possession is 50%

In games we have lost it is 59%

In games we have drawn it is 52%

N.B I have taken the Chesterfield numbers out of this as that game was so distorted by the red cards.

Fairly clear where our strengths and weaknesses are from that cross section.

I think that means nothing.
It’s all about goals scored and goals conceded.
Football matches are won and lost in both penalty areas.

The number of stats now are quite unbelievable. The only 2 that really matter are the 2 above.
It doesn’t matter one jot how much possession you have or don’t have.

It is simply how you find a way not to concede goals and how to score goals.
Football is a very simple game of pass and move. It seems in the modern day there are people trying to make out it is far more complex than that. Well imo it isn’t.

I don't understand why some folk are so against statistics. Would you refuse to look at the sky before going out for a walk and deciding what to wear? Stats work in the same way. They add detail to the thought process.

Here the issue is obvious. We are set up to hit teams in the transition. We break quickly and skilfully, and hit sides hard.

When we have lots of possession, we are ponderous and don't have a clue how to get into an organised defence.

These stats back that up. It's not just a stylistic thing. It's having a bad effect on our results too.

[selby]

  We had a lovely bit of passing possession when we set up Wimbledon's goal up Saturday,
  Only two stats matter, how many goals you concede and how many you score, the rest are irrelevant.
  Supporters will go and watch a winning side no matter how they do it. Manchester City have been one of the greatest football sides ever, the romance looks over after 10 games with pressure on the manager in the media, and their possession stats meaning nothing.

[DonnyOsmond]

Breaking down and comparing the average possession we have compared to the final results is interesting.

In games we have won our average possession is 50%

In games we have lost it is 59%

In games we have drawn it is 52%

N.B I have taken the Chesterfield numbers out of this as that game was so distorted by the red cards.

Fairly clear where our strengths and weaknesses are from that cross section.

I think that means nothing.
It’s all about goals scored and goals conceded.
Football matches are won and lost in both penalty areas.

The number of stats now are quite unbelievable. The only 2 that really matter are the 2 above.
It doesn’t matter one jot how much possession you have or don’t have.

It is simply how you find a way not to concede goals and how to score goals.
Football is a very simple game of pass and move. It seems in the modern day there are people trying to make out it is far more complex than that. Well imo it isn’t.

But it's the story of how you get to the two stats you mention. Does doing well at stat X create more chances and help with the stats you mention? There's a bigger picture to it.

[Campsall rover]

Breaking down and comparing the average possession we have compared to the final results is interesting.

In games we have won our average possession is 50%

In games we have lost it is 59%

In games we have drawn it is 52%

N.B I have taken the Chesterfield numbers out of this as that game was so distorted by the red cards.

Fairly clear where our strengths and weaknesses are from that cross section.

I think that means nothing.
It’s all about goals scored and goals conceded.
Football matches are won and lost in both penalty areas.

The number of stats now are quite unbelievable. The only 2 that really matter are the 2 above.
It doesn’t matter one jot how much possession you have or don’t have.

It is simply how you find a way not to concede goals and how to score goals.
Football is a very simple game of pass and move. It seems in the modern day there are people trying to make out it is far more complex than that. Well imo it isn’t.

I don't understand why some folk are so against statistics. Would you refuse to look at the sky before going out for a walk and deciding what to wear? Stats work in the same way. They add detail to the thought process.

Here the issue is obvious. We are set up to hit teams in the transition. We break quickly and skilfully, and hit sides hard.

When we have lots of possession, we are ponderous and don't have a clue how to get into an organised defence.

These stats back that up. It's not just a stylistic thing. It's having a bad effect on our results too.

I am not against statistics BST not at all. My middle name is Statto.
I just think the actual game itself is becoming far too statistic driven.

KISS ( that’s not for you BST ) I promise you. 
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.  The best thing I ever learnt.
Don’t reinvent the wheel the 2nd best thing I ever learnt.

Has the game actually changed.
It’s 11 v 11 on grass with the same dimensions it was played on 30/50/70/90+ years ago.
The footballs are lighter and the pitches are far superior and the players are much fitter, but at the end of the day the game is the same.
Pass & move, pass & move, pass & move & shoot.
KISS

[Bentley Bullet]

Football's a bit like martial arts. It doesn't matter how good at martial arts you are, a kick in the b*llocks is a great leveller.

[GazLaz]

Breaking down and comparing the average possession we have compared to the final results is interesting.

In games we have won our average possession is 50%

In games we have lost it is 59%

In games we have drawn it is 52%

N.B I have taken the Chesterfield numbers out of this as that game was so distorted by the red cards.

Fairly clear where our strengths and weaknesses are from that cross section.

I think that means nothing.
It’s all about goals scored and goals conceded.
Football matches are won and lost in both penalty areas.

The number of stats now are quite unbelievable. The only 2 that really matter are the 2 above.
It doesn’t matter one jot how much possession you have or don’t have.

It is simply how you find a way not to concede goals and how to score goals.
Football is a very simple game of pass and move. It seems in the modern day there are people trying to make out it is far more complex than that. Well imo it isn’t.

How do you improve any situation unless you identify negative trends? That’s all this is an exercise in.

It’s easy for people to say score more and concede less but there needs to be a realisation of where the underperformance comes from and where the strengths are. Game plans can then be adapted to suit.

It’s not even a data thing. You can see this in real time without having numbers to back it up. We can’t play through the venture of the pitch with short passes and we create our best chances with direct balls over the top. Should we keep trying to play through teams with possession stuff or find a more efficient way that more suits our squad?

[sf9944]

One of the best things I ever learned was; don't bury your head in the sand.

As with all things football evolves.  You either move with the evolution or you get left behind.

 

[Bentley Bullet]

It looks to me like a lot of our possession consists of walking football, passing to the feet of static players who trap the ball before releasing it in a dead ball, free-kick fashion, to another static player who traps the ball and releases it in a dead ball situation to another static player. Often during our games, nobody runs with the ball!

That is probably where our high percentage of possession comes from.

When players run with the ball, they are a different team and are consistently on top.

[edlored]

Trouble is you need more pace than we've got to hit people on the break it all falters when we get the ball wide ea we can't beat a defender when one on one

[Draytonian III]

In my opinion people are getting a bit brainwashed by all the statistics and this is due to the media harping on about it, they’ve turned it to American sport with the possession stats. The worse one is the assists column, when a player has passed it someone else, it could a two foot back heel or a 60 yard punt down the field. Players are supposed to pass the ball. On a slight tangent it’s like the statistic for appearances and goal scored, an injury time substitute appearance counts as much as a full game, which is wrong, it should be minutes per goal

[dickos1]

We did it twice on Saturday but the finishing let us down. Hurst and molyneux have plenty of pace

[selby]

  There is nothing you can do on a football field that has not been done before.
  With our present side a sweeper might be a step forward rather than play the defensive man in front of a slow back line apart from Olowu.
 It would probably work until other sides twigged it and would cause a revolution and with the present off side law and linesmen would also work, I am surprised some of the top sides haven't tried it to be honest.

[roversdude]

Is it possible to drill down deeper to see where the possession was

[JDRovers]

Opta have an interesting 'Zones of Control' feature which highlights which areas of the pitch a team has the majority of touches, https://theanalyst.com/competition/english-league-two

I've attached a picture of ours

[Pancho Regan]

It looks to me like a lot of our possession consists of walking football, passing to the feet of static players who trap the ball before releasing it in a dead ball, free-kick fashion, to another static player who traps the ball and releases it in a dead ball situation to another static player. Often during our games, nobody runs with the ball!

That is probably where our high percentage of possession comes from.

When players run with the ball, they are a different team and are consistently on top.

Excellent point BB

[DMnumber4]

In my opinion people are getting a bit brainwashed by all the statistics and this is due to the media harping on about it, they’ve turned it to American sport with the possession stats. The worse one is the assists column, when a player has passed it someone else, it could a two foot back heel or a 60 yard punt down the field. Players are supposed to pass the ball. On a slight tangent it’s like the statistic for appearances and goal scored, an injury time substitute appearance counts as much as a full game, which is wrong, it should be minutes per goal

There's a stat for that!

Goals/90
1.   Mathew Stevens • AFC Wimbledon; 0.74
2.   James Berry • Chesterfield; 0.70
3.   Harry Smith • Swindon Town; 0.66
4.   Will Grigg • Chesterfield; 0.62
5.   David McGoldrick • Notts County; 0.61
6.   Michael Cheek • Bromley; 0.59
7.   Nathan Lowe • Walsall; 0.58
8.   Andy Cook • Bradford City; 0.57
9.   Alassana Jatta • Notts County; 0.54
10.   Cole Stockton • Salford City; 0.53   

[Chris Black come back]

In my opinion people are getting a bit brainwashed by all the statistics and this is due to the media harping on about it, they’ve turned it to American sport with the possession stats. The worse one is the assists column, when a player has passed it someone else, it could a two foot back heel or a 60 yard punt down the field. Players are supposed to pass the ball. On a slight tangent it’s like the statistic for appearances and goal scored, an injury time substitute appearance counts as much as a full game, which is wrong, it should be minutes per goal

There's a stat for that!

Goals/90
1.   Mathew Stevens • AFC Wimbledon; 0.74
2.   James Berry • Chesterfield; 0.70
3.   Harry Smith • Swindon Town; 0.66
4.   Will Grigg • Chesterfield; 0.62
5.   David McGoldrick • Notts County; 0.61
6.   Michael Cheek • Bromley; 0.59
7.   Nathan Lowe • Walsall; 0.58
8.   Andy Cook • Bradford City; 0.57
9.   Alassana Jatta • Notts County; 0.54
10.   Cole Stockton • Salford City; 0.53   

Half of those have scored against us this season.

[wilts rover]

Breaking down and comparing the average possession we have compared to the final results is interesting.

In games we have won our average possession is 50%

In games we have lost it is 59%

In games we have drawn it is 52%

N.B I have taken the Chesterfield numbers out of this as that game was so distorted by the red cards.

Fairly clear where our strengths and weaknesses are from that cross section.

We had 50% possession on Saturday - and lost. With 0 shots on goal.

[Usher wide.]

I’ve said it until I’m blue in the face. Stats & football…pish!

Set your team up to play to its strengths. I truly believe that GM ‘worries’ TOO much about the opposition. By all means, scout them & look at their strengths but don’t ‘set up’ your team to nullify them at the expense of inhibiting your players to impose themselves on the opposition.

If we do that then we’re actually saying ‘We’re not good enough to play ‘through you’ so we’ll contain you’.

I think it’s starting to affect the players ‘mentality’ now when they take to the pitch home or away.

All the stats will go out of the window & we start winning games without unnecessary ‘deep analysis’.

[Pancho Regan]

Opta have an interesting 'Zones of Control' feature which highlights which areas of the pitch a team has the majority of touches, https://theanalyst.com/competition/english-league-two

I've attached a picture of ours

It just comes up with a blank pitch for me JD, which isn't very encouraging!

[jmt23]

That 50% of the ball we had last Saturday was in the middle of the field, not in the areas most important! Wimbledon dominated both important areas.

I’m still not 100% sure on stats ( I think there is a joke in that line) but most if not all clubs are using them to show where the problems are ,  identify fixes and new talent potential

[Pancho Regan]

I think, as with most things, there's a balance to be struck.

I'm not totally against stats or the use of them, that would be daft. But some people (no names, no pack-drill) seem overly obsessed with data / analysis / statistics.

As BB suggests above, pure possession stats can be particularly misleading.

For the umpteenth time, Man City 'enjoyed' the majority of possession in their game against Man Utd last weekend ...... and lost 2-1.
In our home match against Bromley, Rovers had an amazing 65% possession, and we all know how that one ended.

So yes, possession stats can be interesting as a subject of discussion, but they can also be very misleading in my opinion.

[Beerseller]

Opta have an interesting 'Zones of Control' feature which highlights which areas of the pitch a team has the majority of touches, https://theanalyst.com/competition/english-league-two

I've attached a picture of ours

It just comes up with a blank pitch for me JD, which isn't very encouraging!

Where it shows AFC Wimbledon, choose Doncaster

[Pancho Regan]

Opta have an interesting 'Zones of Control' feature which highlights which areas of the pitch a team has the majority of touches, https://theanalyst.com/competition/english-league-two

I've attached a picture of ours

It just comes up with a blank pitch for me JD, which isn't very encouraging!

Where it shows AFC Wimbledon, choose Doncaster

Thanks Beerseller, got it now.

I'd entered Doncaster Rovers at the top of the page so I got all our players' stats, but didn't see that you needed to enter the team again at the Zones of Control bit.

Thanks again.

[ForsolongaRover]

Stats are a form of facts, but like all facts they can be relevant to the case you are trying to make - or not.

The zonal stats are fascinating because they add perspective to possession.

It is surely as wrong to base an argument on inappropriate stats as it is on incorrect facts but by rejecting stats entirely you are losing a useful information source.

[JDRovers]

I agree, it doesn't make sense to reject them out of hand.

To go back to GazLaz's original post, those possession stats in the context of the results just confirm what we've all seen on the pitch already this season

[ncRover]

That's interesting Gaz, thank you.

If we're going to play more direct and counter attacking then the front 3 for the next few games needs to be:

                      Hurst       Ironside      Molyneux

I don't believe this combination has been used much this season?

In the last 3 games that Sharp has played as a lone striker, the team has scored zero goals while he's had that role on the pitch (Wimbledon, Carlisle, Notts).

Ironside wins 50% of his headers - a similar level to Andy Cook at Bradford. Sharp only 27% - a similar level to George Miller.

Get runners going beyond Ironside and we'll get some joy I think.

[Prez]

We had 57% today, yet we were outclassed.

Its what you do with it.