Has grant mcann ran out of credit ?

[DMnumber4]

Strange one. Is Grant actually in a stronger position if we get relegated? Who else would you want to build a promotion chasing team than someone who built a L2 title winning side last season?

[Rupee92ONLY]

Strange one. Is Grant actually in a stronger position if we get relegated? Who else would you want to build a promotion chasing team than someone who built a L2 title winning side last season?

He will probably stay even if we are relegated and this would be the reasoning but i’d argue against that. He has told us himself publicly that he knows L1 better than L2. Next summer would/will be a very big one, recruitment wise. We’ll need a lot of quality through the door. Has he shown enough to be trusted on that front? Absolutely not imo. 

[Bills view]

From watching it feels like we are a lower bottom half team. The impression I got at the start of the season from McCann and the club is that we would be better than we currently are.

Something has gone wrong.

Loads of similar quality players, maybe the January recruits will make a bigger difference.

There definitely needs to be a comprehensive lessons learned session done so if McCann stays we have a different, hopefully better approach before next season.

[mpc123]

I dont get this part of not recruited well.

Just because every player hasn't blown the world apart.

It's like you all expect each player to play to the top of their form every game and we then win promotion.

We have made great strides on and off the pitch, we are building. It might be slightly disappointing that a hope of mid table ish may not happen, but I dont think we are that far from it.

We have had great cup days / runs and 1 game from Wembley.

I dont know what people want from a club where nobody can be arsed to turn up from the city.
Fans that over moan and get on at the players in some case in a rather disgusting way.

For me our fanbase is one of our major downfalls.

More positive vibe, support of the players, a city that turns up and I think you wont be far off all getting what you want.

Is it really the clubs fault? Personally I think the club is let down from the support of the city, which would give revenues, I think supporters dont understand the flux and building stage we are in.... just players play brilliant football or you are rubbish mentality.

They are already losing millions trying to sustain the position and give to the fans and struggling to get the support from football manager wanna be.

Going through the days of not knowing if the club was going to be here at all was probably an eye opener and a growing up moment for me, years ago.

And before anyone replies with its a forum, you can still talk about football without just ever saying all the players are rubbish.

Mccann stays, keep building, its a silly conversation. Further success will come in time with our current regime.

[NickDRFC]

I dont get this part of not recruited well.

Just because every player hasn't blown the world apart.

It's like you all expect each player to play to the top of their form every game and we then win promotion.

For me it’s really hard to argue with the fact recruitment hasn’t been good enough and you’re presenting a non-existent argument (for the most part, there are always some who are totally unrealistic) about expectations for promotion. In the summer we signed:

- Hanlan, who has consistently been a L1 player but struggles to get a game and when he has played, hasn’t looked like fitting in. He won’t be cheap given the level he’s previously played at
- Pearson, again signed as a reasonably high profile player but clearly not fancied despite how bad we’ve been defensively
- Crew - sent back in January
- Ajayi - sent back in January
- Olusanya - not sure if he was sent back or just loan expired but either way he was nowhere near good enough
- Grehan - doesn’t look ready but still trusted with a reasonable amount of game time
- Middleton - doesn’t look a bad player necessarily but clearly a bad fit
- O’Riordan - very good
- Gotts - very good lately, but inexplicably took 5 months to find a position for him to get that level of performance
- TLT - despite his Huddersfield heroics you’d struggle to argue this has been a success. He’s cost us a lot of points over the season and we replaced him as number 1 in January

So out of 10 signings, only 2 I’d say have been successful. I don’t think any of the rest have even been average so for me 8 out of 10 have been poor. It’s really clear to me (and hopefully the club!) that we recruited badly in the summer.

The January signings immediately look better but it’s still too early to judge, and even if they all turn out to be decent it’s still not a great record for the full season.

[dickos1]

Do you mean league 1 player for hanlan?

Crew, TLT, both excellent signings, that every supporter celebrated.
The fact they haven’t worked out this time as well as the first time is surely down to the player.
We know they’re both very good players who will no doubt play at a higher level than this.
Crew especially seemed to turn up here with a poor attitude this season,
It’s too early to suggest grehan is a bad signing for me, and I think Middleton, Gotts, o Riordan have been good signings, add to that haks, Clark, Byrne, Lee, Robinson I can’t see how this years recruitment can be described as poorly as people seem to be making out

[NickDRFC]

Do you mean league 1 player for hanlan?

Crew, TLT, both excellent signings, that every supporter celebrated.
The fact they haven’t worked out this time as well as the first time is surely down to the player.
We know they’re both very good players who will no doubt play at a higher level than this.
Crew especially seemed to turn up here with a poor attitude this season,
It’s too early to suggest grehan is a bad signing for me, and I think Middleton, Gotts, o Riordan have been good signings, add to that haks, Clark, Byrne, Lee, Robinson I can’t see how this years recruitment can be described as poorly as people seem to be making out

I did mean that with Hanlan thanks, have corrected now.

What supporters thought about Crew and TLT is totally irrelevant, they’ve proved to be poor signings and some of the responsibility of that has to sit with the people who signed them.

The fact you say Middleton has been a good signing just shows that we see things completely differently. He’s hasn’t played much and when he has he has barely contributed. It’s not as though he’s being kept on the bench by someone playing out of their skin either, for the most part he’s been competing with an underwhelming Gibson. For me it’s mad to call him a “good signing”.

[dickos1]

Not every signing is going to be our best player, it’s obvious the plan this season was to have two good players for every position. To help with injuries, loss of form etc, to get into a position like that means your signing players to cover positions so not every single one is going to be a star player.
Can’t recall us ever having a squad this good with as much cover

[mpc123]

Do you mean league 1 player for hanlan?

Crew, TLT, both excellent signings, that every supporter celebrated.
The fact they haven’t worked out this time as well as the first time is surely down to the player.
We know they’re both very good players who will no doubt play at a higher level than this.
Crew especially seemed to turn up here with a poor attitude this season,
It’s too early to suggest grehan is a bad signing for me, and I think Middleton, Gotts, o Riordan have been good signings, add to that haks, Clark, Byrne, Lee, Robinson I can’t see how this years recruitment can be described as poorly as people seem to be making out

I did mean that with Hanlan thanks, have corrected now.

What supporters thought about Crew and TLT is totally irrelevant, they’ve proved to be poor signings and some of the responsibility of that has to sit with the people who signed them.

The fact you say Middleton has been a good signing just shows that we see things completely differently. He’s hasn’t played much and when he has he has barely contributed. It’s not as though he’s being kept on the bench by someone playing out of their skin either, for the most part he’s been competing with an underwhelming Gibson. For me it’s mad to call him a “good signing”.

How can you say they havent been good signing, they havent performed which is nothong to do with the recruitment team. We all would have signed those players.

[GazLaz]

Do you mean league 1 player for hanlan?

Crew, TLT, both excellent signings, that every supporter celebrated.
The fact they haven’t worked out this time as well as the first time is surely down to the player.
We know they’re both very good players who will no doubt play at a higher level than this.
Crew especially seemed to turn up here with a poor attitude this season,
It’s too early to suggest grehan is a bad signing for me, and I think Middleton, Gotts, o Riordan have been good signings, add to that haks, Clark, Byrne, Lee, Robinson I can’t see how this years recruitment can be described as poorly as people seem to be making out

We currently have one summer signing in our first choice XI. The summer recruitment was indeed poor.

Signing Lee, Byrne, Clark, Haks isn't genius recruitment is it? They may be ok players but the talent identification part of the process isn't spectacular is it? Is signing 30+ year olds, that are likely past their best the route we go down long term?

How can we improve the talent identification part of the recruitment process? How can we identify undervalued talent that will be able to help us punch above our weight long term? We are certainly punching below our weight at the minute and thats largely down to not having a functioning recruitment setup.

What is our edge over other teams when it comes to recruiting? What are we doing better than the rest?

[GazLaz]

Do you mean league 1 player for hanlan?

Crew, TLT, both excellent signings, that every supporter celebrated.
The fact they haven’t worked out this time as well as the first time is surely down to the player.
We know they’re both very good players who will no doubt play at a higher level than this.
Crew especially seemed to turn up here with a poor attitude this season,
It’s too early to suggest grehan is a bad signing for me, and I think Middleton, Gotts, o Riordan have been good signings, add to that haks, Clark, Byrne, Lee, Robinson I can’t see how this years recruitment can be described as poorly as people seem to be making out

I did mean that with Hanlan thanks, have corrected now.

What supporters thought about Crew and TLT is totally irrelevant, they’ve proved to be poor signings and some of the responsibility of that has to sit with the people who signed them.

The fact you say Middleton has been a good signing just shows that we see things completely differently. He’s hasn’t played much and when he has he has barely contributed. It’s not as though he’s being kept on the bench by someone playing out of their skin either, for the most part he’s been competing with an underwhelming Gibson. For me it’s mad to call him a “good signing”.

How can you say they havent been good signing, they havent performed which is nothong to do with the recruitment team. We all would have signed those players.

Even if some of the players we recruited are good, just not performing, surely that lends itself to the fact that perhaps they don't fit into the managers system/style of play maybe. Thats all part of a poor recruitment process. No point signing good players that don't align with what you are trying to do on the pitch.

[Rupee92ONLY]

Can’t quite believe what I am reading. Nobody can be saying our summer recruitment wasn’t anything other than bad and being serious.

[mpc123]

Do you mean league 1 player for hanlan?

Crew, TLT, both excellent signings, that every supporter celebrated.
The fact they haven’t worked out this time as well as the first time is surely down to the player.
We know they’re both very good players who will no doubt play at a higher level than this.
Crew especially seemed to turn up here with a poor attitude this season,
It’s too early to suggest grehan is a bad signing for me, and I think Middleton, Gotts, o Riordan have been good signings, add to that haks, Clark, Byrne, Lee, Robinson I can’t see how this years recruitment can be described as poorly as people seem to be making out

I did mean that with Hanlan thanks, have corrected now.

What supporters thought about Crew and TLT is totally irrelevant, they’ve proved to be poor signings and some of the responsibility of that has to sit with the people who signed them.

The fact you say Middleton has been a good signing just shows that we see things completely differently. He’s hasn’t played much and when he has he has barely contributed. It’s not as though he’s being kept on the bench by someone playing out of their skin either, for the most part he’s been competing with an underwhelming Gibson. For me it’s mad to call him a “good signing”.

How can you say they havent been good signing, they havent performed which is nothong to do with the recruitment team. We all would have signed those players.

Even if some of the players we recruited are good, just not performing, surely that lends itself to the fact that perhaps they don't fit into the managers system/style of play maybe. Thats all part of a poor recruitment process. No point signing good players that don't align with what you are trying to do on the pitch.

Hiw can it be pior receuitment...... those 2 had played with us before and been good. Crazy agenda that doesn't fit. It all boils down to everyone thinks we have a right to be top of the league and our players the best in the world

You support Doncaster Rovers.... there doesn't need to be a blame, its just part of where we are and the way we are evolving. Even Wrexham throwing shit loads at it have and are still having ups and downs. Thats not just football that is life.

Now if bad recruitment is the case how have we got sone great players worth decent money, all of those the fans have slagged off at some point. The difference is the fans do it in hindsight, unfortunately, thats not real world.

The club and Mccaan already have plans for enhanced data and the club are investing in it.

Maybe we could have had it this year but the only thing the fans could blame was the tannoy last year, so we had to spend money on that instead.

[Fal]

Can’t quite believe what I am reading. Nobody can be saying our summer recruitment wasn’t anything other than bad and being serious.

I don't think it was bad at all, it looks bad now due to how the signings worked out but at the time 99% of fans were happy with them all.

As mpc said, it boils down to fans thinking we have a god given right to be a great team in this league. Yes McCann hasn't helped with his ambition telling us he thinks we can push for the playoffs but he is hardly going to come out and say our squad isn't good enough and we will be in a relegation battle is he?

Too many fifa and football manager experts these days, makes me wonder how they would've coped during the 1997/98 season had social media been around.

[GazLaz]

Can’t quite believe what I am reading. Nobody can be saying our summer recruitment wasn’t anything other than bad and being serious.

I don't think it was bad at all, it looks bad now due to how the signings worked out but at the time 99% of fans were happy with them all.

As mpc said, it boils down to fans thinking we have a god given right to be a great team in this league. Yes McCann hasn't helped with his ambition telling us he thinks we can push for the playoffs but he is hardly going to come out and say our squad isn't good enough and we will be in a relegation battle is he?

Too many fifa and football manager experts these days, makes me wonder how they would've coped during the 1997/98 season had social media been around.

Surely recruitment gets judged on how signings work out? Isn't that the best way to assess it?

I'm only interested in process, do i think our process can be improved? yes.

[wing commander]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

I for one was pretty well pleased with our summer recruitment based on where we stand as a club and the budget we have available, has it turns out some of the comments from fans of their previous clubs turned out to be not far from the mark on their short comings and on the whole I don't think anybody can argue it's been a disappointment.

That said the area I would be questioning more than recruitment is the actual coaching of the players. We don't seem to have any variety in our set pieces whether it's free kicks or corners and when we are defending them we are often guilty of not been switched on getting away with it, only to concede in the same situation later in the game

Maybe we have rose tinted spectacles but you look at our midfield of Ads,Bails,Mols,broadbent,clifton and Middleton and you think that has to be a superior league 1 midfield for controlling the game and the ball based on their individual talents yet the stats suggest we have inferior possession compared to the opposition more times than not so for me either they are not as good as we think or the shape and coaching is not good enough.

That might be down to GM's attacking philosophy but you can hardly say that's as entertaining to watch as it sounds. As for GM himself my biggest moan with him is his bloody reluctance to throw his hat behind an out and out striker like Billy was. He just goes for utility forward players who can play anywhere up top but those type of players are never going to trouble the goal scoring charts.

[Rupee92ONLY]

‘Fans were happy when the signings were announced’ meaning they are good signings regardless of how regularly they play or the quality of their performance is a new one on me.

[Draytonian III]

Footballers at whatever standard they play at are doing their job, it’s just like if they were for instance forklift drivers or plumbers or whatever. You can not force people to join a company, in a job 80% of people will go for the money the rest is made up of issues like location and other such variables. We could chuck fists full of money at players and do well for a couple of seasons but it’s not sustainable in the long run, we can all pick examples of clubs that have tried that over the last 40 years and the mess they have got themselves in.
 We will see a prime example of this in Hollywood FC because they might reach the promised land in a season or so, but they will be able to carry on like they are ? No, and slip back and find their true level

[DearneValleyRover]

This is Grant’s fourth season with us, in the first 3 we reached the play-off’s twice and won the league. This is by far the worst season (position wise) we have had under him as things stand at the present, so are we judging him on that? In regards to quality I can honestly say that in all those 3 previous seasons we weren’t that great before the January window so in that respect nothing has changed other than we haven’t kicked on as noticeably as we did in the previous 3.

[oggycompton]

Not sure Grant is the issue. If the recruitment team think signing a Sharp like player who is short and doesnt want to head a ball for what is effectively a direct team alongside Middleton who would be perfect for a target man or larger forward who is good in the air like Ironside a few years ago then there is your issue.

The disconnect between what Grant wants as a player versus what hes been given is miles apart. Even I know that he wants industrious wide forwards who are a goal threat, not an old-school winger getting to the byline and crossing it.

He wants a Hanlan type, just a bit better. No coincedence that the physical Okoronkwo looked really good where he struggled at Lincoln... it's how we play. he needs players for the system.

[RoseTInteD]

We were absolutely dire when Grant came to the club. We were 18th in League Two.

He had to totally rebuild the club, the players, work ethic and even the staff. To get to the playoffs was a massive achievement for the club. Champions last year and if we stay up or even finish mid-table this year, I don’t see him as a failure. I don’t understand his formations or logic behind his subs, but then I don’t claim to know more about being a manager than Grant.

He has still earned plenty of credit from me.

[Rupee92ONLY]

Not sure Grant is the issue. If the recruitment team think signing a Sharp like player who is short and doesnt want to head a ball for what is effectively a direct team alongside Middleton who would be perfect for a target man or larger forward who is good in the air like Ironside a few years ago then there is your issue.

The disconnect between what Grant wants as a player versus what hes been given is miles apart. Even I know that he wants industrious wide forwards who are a goal threat, not an old-school winger getting to the byline and crossing it.

He wants a Hanlan type, just a bit better. No coincedence that the physical Okoronkwo looked really good where he struggled at Lincoln... it's how we play. he needs players for the system.

That would be a fair defence if McCann hadn’t brought in the man who’s currently in charge of our recruitment (+ the numerous times McCann has publicly stated he makes the decisions as it’s him in the dugout).

[dickos1]

This is Grant’s fourth season with us, in the first 3 we reached the play-off’s twice and won the league. This is by far the worst season (position wise) we have had under him as things stand at the present, so are we judging him on that? In regards to quality I can honestly say that in all those 3 previous seasons we weren’t that great before the January window so in that respect nothing has changed other than we haven’t kicked on as noticeably as we did in the previous 3.

You can’t say this season isn’t far the worst under McCann, this time two years ago we were 3rd bottom of league 2. You can’t compare completed seasons with a season we have 15 or so games left in. If we continue the decent run we’re currently on we will finish midtable, and a decent first season in this league.

[CJK]

I like McCann in general and still think he's probably as good as we can hope for given our stature, league status etc. There are a couple of things I'd be outlining on his mid-season report;

- Starting the season without a recognised, proper number 9. We all know that position is pivotal to the system, when the season started we had Hanlon, Sharp and Ironside, with the later addition of Olusanya. It became clear quite quickly that the only number 9 amongst that lot wasn't going to play and he ended up leaving. Whether Ironside could have done the job, we'll never know. So why did we conclude our business without a proper number 9?
- We've got to improve our recruitment success rate. Too many dud's again and then having to perform a rescue job in January. I note the statement about reviewing recruitment processes from the meet the owners event and that is definitely something that needs to happen.
- We need to think about whether we want two players to cover every position and have a large squad, or do we want a stronger spine with more focussed investment in a smaller senior squad? Ok, that larger squad has paid dividends with the cup runs, but its been shown to be out of its depth in the league.

I really hope Frankie is fit again to make the impact we need up top. Him, Moly and Haks will be vital to the goals we need.

As I said, I think we've got the beginnings of something, structurally, it just needs some refinement in order to make the most of what we've got.

[dickos1]

Do you mean league 1 player for hanlan?

Crew, TLT, both excellent signings, that every supporter celebrated.
The fact they haven’t worked out this time as well as the first time is surely down to the player.
We know they’re both very good players who will no doubt play at a higher level than this.
Crew especially seemed to turn up here with a poor attitude this season,
It’s too early to suggest grehan is a bad signing for me, and I think Middleton, Gotts, o Riordan have been good signings, add to that haks, Clark, Byrne, Lee, Robinson I can’t see how this years recruitment can be described as poorly as people seem to be making out

We currently have one summer signing in our first choice XI. The summer recruitment was indeed poor.

Signing Lee, Byrne, Clark, Haks isn't genius recruitment is it? They may be ok players but the talent identification part of the process isn't spectacular is it? Is signing 30+ year olds, that are likely past their best the route we go down long term?

How can we improve the talent identification part of the recruitment process? How can we identify undervalued talent that will be able to help us punch above our weight long term? We are certainly punching below our weight at the minute and thats largely down to not having a functioning recruitment setup.

What is our edge over other teams when it comes to recruiting? What are we doing better than the rest?

Who’s to say McCann didn’t want to give the majority of the team that got us promoted a chance at the higher level,
He wasn’t going to just replace the likes of molyneux, Bailey, Sterry, mcgrath, Clifton, he wanted to increase competition, so suggesting that just because they aren’t in our starting 11 every week means they’re poor signings is wrong.
But even taking that into consideration I think 5 of the new signings we’ve made over the last 12 months would get into our strongest 11, so that can’t be bad recruitment, along with half a dozen players that have made the squad stronger.

[mpc123]

Can’t quite believe what I am reading. Nobody can be saying our summer recruitment wasn’t anything other than bad and being serious.

I don't think it was bad at all, it looks bad now due to how the signings worked out but at the time 99% of fans were happy with them all.

As mpc said, it boils down to fans thinking we have a god given right to be a great team in this league. Yes McCann hasn't helped with his ambition telling us he thinks we can push for the playoffs but he is hardly going to come out and say our squad isn't good enough and we will be in a relegation battle is he?

Too many fifa and football manager experts these days, makes me wonder how they would've coped during the 1997/98 season had social media been around.

Surely recruitment gets judged on how signings work out? Isn't that the best way to assess it?

I'm only interested in process, do i think our process can be improved? yes.

The best team in the world needs improvement, that never stops. As a club we have limited funds, there is only so much progress a year you can do. We are taking all the right steps under an agreed budget, we cannot ask for more than that.