End of Billy Sharp, never again in a Rovers shirt!

[Sombrero]

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=463&fid=221&sty=2&act=1&mid=2121993208

It's what is being reported on Blades mad, anyone know anything.

Have we seen the last of him, we certainly dropped on lucky getting him this year but who could replace him next year?

[Filo]

I wouldn`t take much notice of them, on the saturday we played plymouth they were saying that he was at Brammall Lane watching the Blades when in actual fact he was at the KM, I saw him with my own eyes, he was also at the KM on Saturday against WBA

[intake rover]

not much in that to what what i can see

[RoversAlias]

Absolute rubbish, we know Billy is still fighting to be fit to play another game this season, and I too saw him last weekend at our match, not United's. Even if he had gone back, doesn't mean we aren't gonna sign him in the summer or try, didn't Shackell go back to Wolves when he got injured?

[Barmby Rover]

I don't think we will see Billy in a Rovers shirt again, except a training top. I really do wish that we could sign him over the summer, but I have a feeling that we will not be able to afford him. If so, good luck to the lad, he will find another club besides the Blades to go to, and we will no doubt find somebody to replace him.

[wilts rover]

or according to Rovers Mad we have already purchased him due to there being a clause to that extent in the loan agreement
http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=184&fid=96&sty=2&act=1&mid=2122046794

what is true is that Sheffield United have debts of £46 million and 6 strikers

[DMnumber4]

Anyone else of the opinion that if happens then great, but if not we can see why and he'll move on and we'll have to fill the void?

I, for one, am not getting too stressed over how much we are or aren't paying.

[Lytham Rover]

DMnumber4 wrote:

Anyone else of the opinion that if happens then great, but if not we can see why and he'll move on and we'll have to fill the void?

I, for one, am not getting too stressed over how much we are or aren't paying.

[/b]

leave that to your sister tom

[smitiai]

Sad day to confirm Billy will not play for the Rovers again this season.

Again I cant say how i got this information, as the last time i mentioned some information on Billy i got 'bollocked' from other forum members about my source..

For those who dont know, i put on the forum that Billy was coming to the rovers for certain 2 hours before it was officially announced.. (to confirm the info on him not playing again this season is from the same source).

[sheffieldROVER]

yeah cos hes injured
hes gone back to his club for treatment i heard.
but i do strongley believe that billy will be back in a rovers shirt FOR GOOD next season!
lets just hope the blunts dont lose to wednesday and blackwell keeps his job.
cos after all billy will never play while hes still there.
dont think billy sharpe is a numpty he knows the crack weve helped him and hes helped us.
but can we afford him??????
i still think hell be back at the keepmoat in a red and white shirt next season
along with shackell

i hope  

[irishcontingent]

Personally i dont think there will be a problem affording BS and JS , where i think there will be a problem is attracting ANOTHER goalscorer and another central defender to assist the team in the absence of BS & JS ( injury and suspension times, or plain loss of form ).
Maybe Ward has been sounded out, maybe some loans will be brought in as back up to said players, only Ryan and his board and the management will know, but thats where i see problem.

[topnotch_Donny]

irishcontingent wrote:

Personally i dont think there will be a problem affording BS and JS , where i think there will be a problem is attracting ANOTHER goalscorer and another central defender to assist the team in the absence of BS & JS ( injury and suspension times, or plain loss of form ).
Maybe Ward has been sounded out, maybe some loans will be brought in as back up to said players, only Ryan and his board and the management will know, but thats where i see problem.

Personally i dont think there will be a problem affording BS and JS

It will cost a bomb to buy both Shacks and Sharp; however, it will be worth it if they get us to the premiership.

How much would it cost to buy the pair of them? This is my rough estimate; I’m probably miles out though! I‘d say around £624 thousand a year in salary (for both) then the transfer fee (for both) say around £1.5 million. So the board would have to invest a staggering £2 million plus, and don’t forget they are already covering huge deficits each year. It’s a massive ask. It must be giving the board a real headache, I am glad it isn't me calling this.

If we do buy both, Billy and Shacks, then the plan must be to go flat out to reach the promise land, otherwise, the deficit at the end of next year will be around £5-6 million, based on previous deficits. So I can only see us buying them if we are ready to go for it, and from what I’ve seen this season, we are more than ready to take this league by storm, exciting times  B)

[Rovers Return]

topnotch_Donny wrote:

irishcontingent wrote:

Personally i dont think there will be a problem affording BS and JS , where i think there will be a problem is attracting ANOTHER goalscorer and another central defender to assist the team in the absence of BS & JS ( injury and suspension times, or plain loss of form ).
Maybe Ward has been sounded out, maybe some loans will be brought in as back up to said players, only Ryan and his board and the management will know, but thats where i see problem.

Personally i dont think there will be a problem affording BS and JS

It will cost a bomb to buy both Shacks and Sharp; however, it will be worth it if they get us to the premiership.

How much would it cost to buy the pair of them? This is my rough estimate; I’m probably miles out though! I‘d say around £624 thousand a year in salary (for both) then the transfer fee (for both) say around £1.5 million. So the board would have to invest a staggering £2 million plus, and don’t forget they are already covering huge deficits each year. It’s a massive ask. It must be giving the board a real headache, I am glad it isn't me calling this.


If we do buy both, Billy and Shacks, then the plan must be to go flat out to reach the promise land, otherwise, the deficit at the end of next year will be around £5-6 million, based on previous deficits. So I can only see us buying them if we are ready to go for it, and from what I’ve seen this season, we are more than ready to take this league by storm, exciting times  B)

Me too...however, my gut feeling is that we may be going for it. We have the opportunity to purchase top notch players that are proven with us, we have had them and taken them for a test drive and we liked it. They are bedded in and for that are relatively cheap, plus they want to be here. How long and how much will we waste in trying out other players? The time is now, all be it a little bit earlier than some may have liked. The parachute payment announcement may force the hand and our manager will not hang around for good. Strike now and enjoy the potential prize.

[Snods Shinpad 2]

topnotch_Donny wrote:

If we do buy both, Billy and Shacks, then the plan must be to go flat out to reach the promise land, otherwise, the deficit at the end of next year will be around £5-6 million, based on previous deficits. So I can only see us buying them if we are ready to go for it, and from what I’ve seen this season, we are more than ready to take this league by storm, exciting times  B)

Hate to be a killjoy, but we had both Shack and Billy in the team this season and we are looking like we are going to finish mid table, so it is maybe a bit too optimistic to assume that we have a good chance of promotion if we buy them both.

What stopped us competing for a top 6 finish this year, I think, was that the squad was two or maybe three players short. Injuries happen and you need to plan for the worst and when we had ours we struggled a bit. Nevertheless, we weren't a million miles away from having a top 6 team.

Also worth baring in mind that we will probably only have Fairhurst and Hayter at the club next season. So we need another 2 strikers at least.
We can't go throwing all our cash at Sharp and then pray he never gets injured. He inevitably will and then we are suddenly relegation fodder.

Looking in my crystal ball I reckon:

Sharp will not be here.

Shackell or Ward signs permanently (for me preferably Shackell).

1 quality striker on a season loan.

1 striker probably from a lower level brought in on a small fee, or a top class striker who's getting on a bit and is asking for reasonable wages (e.g Kevin Phillips).

2 workmanlike midfielders. (Gillett, Montgomery types)

1 goalie.

...and if we get a decent offer for Woods or Stock, I think they will be on their way.

[RobTheRover]

Dont forget the return of Steve Brooker!

[Alan Southstand]

Hate to be a killjoy, but we had both Shack and Billy in the team this season and we are looking like we are going to finish mid table, so it is maybe a bit too optimistic to assume that we have a good chance of promotion if we buy them both.

What stopped us competing for a top 6 finish this year, I think, was that the squad was two or maybe three players short. Injuries happen and you need to plan for the worst and when we had ours we struggled a bit. Nevertheless, we weren't a million miles away from having a top 6 team.

What stopped us competing was losing the 2 players you mention right at the time we needed them most. We were 6 points off the play-off's, remember, and we had to do without those 2 at the critical time.
We do need more strength-in-depth, but we have to be very 'selective' with the players we bring in, due to budgets.

IF we want to maintain our league position next season, then I'm afraid these 2 (or something very close to them, in quality terms) will be needed again next season. If we want to push on and improve further, then we need to add (maybe) a couple more.

At least I don't need to bang on relentlessly about the need for a striker anymore, as Billy proved, without a shadow of a doubt, that we were desperate for someone to lead the line. I still have the utmost faith in the manager to deliver at this level, but I have serious doubts as to the amount of backing he will be given to fulfil that prophecy.

[Lytham Rover]

Rigoglioso wrote:

irishcontingent wrote:

Maybe Ward has been sounded out, maybe some loans will be brought in as back up to said players, only Ryan and his board and the management will know, but thats where i see problem.

I certainly hope we can get Elliot Ward. If it came as a straight toss up between him and Shackell, I'd go for Ward every time. Presumably he would be more financially viable and he really did make a massive impression on me during his months loan.

Go on JR, get Ward snapped up!!! Them dogs b*llocks are still around somewhere if they are needed again!

that wise old sage brian clough was always of the opinion that you build a team from the back

get the defence right and you are always in the game   give away stupid goals at the wrong time and you are bolloxed

[Thinwhiteduke]

Personally I am not optimistic about us signing Sharp.

As such we should be looking at alternatives NOW. In fact I think there is a ready made replacement in Hooper at Scunthorpe United - he wants away, he scores goals for fun at Scunny who I dont believe are as strong as us, he wouldnt cost a huge transfer fee, and I dont believe his wage demands would be out of our current structure.

Id be amazed if Rovers were not looking at him as a viable option for next season - and I wouldnt say not to Scunnys Keeper, Murphy, as well. Lets use them North Lincs minnows as a feeder Club.  

[steve@dcfd]

Quote
Hate to be a killjoy, but we had both Shack and Billy in the team this season and we are looking like we are going to finish mid table, so it is maybe a bit too optimistic to assume that we have a good chance of promotion if we buy them both.

If these two players had stayed fit we would have definetly made the playoffs. If we had not loaned these two players we would have been in the bottom four.Our results in the last period prove that. We have also missed Brian Stock,at his best, which we have not seen this season. If Billy had still been fit, after the Barnsley game we would have got the points we required to be in the playoffs. Pre season will be interesting, can we keep our manager? Will we sign the players we need to maintain our position aswell as progress? Will we have to wait till End of July ,August again to find out. Will we be told again by the JR and the Board we can aim for the playoffs yet signing of quality players is not there.

[grayx]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

Personally I am not optimistic about us signing Sharp.

As such we should be looking at alternatives NOW. In fact I think there is a ready made replacement in Hooper at Scunthorpe United - he wants away, he scores goals for fun at Scunny who I dont believe are as strong as us, he wouldnt cost a huge transfer fee, and I dont believe his wage demands would be out of our current structure.

Id be amazed if Rovers were not looking at him as a viable option for next season - and I wouldnt say not to Scunnys Keeper, Murphy, as well. Lets use them North Lincs minnows as a feeder Club.  

Ipswich are reportedly lining up a million bid for Hooper. Murphy is an excellent keeper destined for bigger things & again probably out of our financial reach.

[Thinwhiteduke]

Agreed.

Look where we were before Billy came in on loan compared to out comparitive performance with him in the side, and our results again since he's been injured - a clear pattern emerges. However, I still think its a huge error to bomb Heffernan out of the Club.

As for this summer, I reckon its essential we make our signing early, get as much pre season in as possible and attempt to hit the ground running. We have been so slow off the mark in the last few season, and Im sure its partially due to our sluggish, slow performance in the transfer market.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

Agreed.

Look where we were before Billy came in on loan compared to out comparitive performance with him in the side, and our results again since he's been injured - a clear pattern emerges. However, I still think its a huge error to bomb Heffernan out of the Club.

As for this summer, I reckon its essential we make our signing early, get as much pre season in as possible and attempt to hit the ground running. We have been so slow off the mark in the last few season, and Im sure its partially due to our sluggish, slow performance in the transfer market.

Bit of a contradiction there.  You say we weren't doing anything without Sharp as front man.  Before him it was Heffs, now it's Heffs again yet you think it's an error to let him go?

[BillyStubbsTears]

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

Bit of a contradiction there.  You say we weren't doing anything without Sharp as front man.  Before him it was Heffs, now it's Heffs again yet you think it's an error to let him go?

Once again it's a shame that people don't do a bit of research before giving us their opinions.

1) Heffernan started only 2 games at the start of the season. We got two creditable draws.

2) in the 5 matches we played before Sharp came, we got 5 points.

3) In Sharp's first 5 starts we got 3 points.

4) In Sharp's first 9 games we got 7 points.

5) Sharp scored just 2 goals in his first 7 starts.  

The point being? Sides and strikers often need time to get going. We did NOT suddenly catch fire when Sharp arrived. If anything we went backwards for a short while. And Sharp dud NOT suddenly look like a world beater when he arrived. It took him a while to settle in to the side, reach match sharpness and start taking chances.

For some reason, you seem to assume that Heffernan should be judged by different criteria. If Heffernan does not start to score immediately, or if the team doesn't click immediately when he us picked, you take this as evidence that he is not up to this level. Be consistent laddie.

[bobjimwilly]

BST, please answer this simple question for us:

Let's pretend we can afford Sharp and his wages, and we have to have one or the other, who do we sign?

a) Billy Sharp
b) Paul Heffernan

And no backchat please, this isn't a forum you know!  B)

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

For some reason, you seem to assume that Heffernan should be judged by different criteria. If Heffernan does not start to score immediately, or if the team doesn't click immediately when he us picked, you take this as evidence that he is not up to this level. Be consistent laddie.

It doesn't need statistics to tell me he's not good enough, my own eye site and judgement will do that.  I've even seen people say Heffs scored in league 1 on loan.  Yes he did, 5 goals in his 15 starts.  Now compare that to Sharp's 15 goals in 30 in the league above.

Opinions aside if you want to use statistics, starts, runs whatever, it still doesn't get away from the fact that Heffernan still hasn't played in a winning side for Rovers this season and in his last 15 starts both for us and Bristol Rovers, he has 4 goals.  If 15 starts between 26th January and now, isn't a run of playing football then what is?  Are you seriously telling me that 4 goals in a run of 15 games is good enough?

We all know he didn't have a great chance at the start of the season and has not had many starts for us this seaosn (just 6).  But you can't claim he hasn't had a run of first team football.  Be it at league 1 or Championship level it shouldn't really make much difference to Heffernan who is a pro and should perform to the same level in both leagues.

Cool hard fact of day is IMO Heffs does not offer a goal threat for us at this moment at time.  Can you really tell me you feel confident we'll score goals with Heffernan playing up front?

As for Sharp scoring goals, that is a fair point, he did score 2 in his first 7 starts.  One slight difference, he did claim assists and plenty of them.  I'd be happier with Heff up front if he was at least creating goals but he doesn't get assists either.

[SkellowRover]

You can see that Heffs just isn't interested in playing for DRFC anymore by his demeanour and body language when he's playing. I heard he was a bit pissed off at being recalled from Brizzle and so far his performances have backed that up since he came back.
So if that's the case i would rather give young Waide a go for the last 2 matches.

[BillyStubbsTears]

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

For some reason, you seem to assume that Heffernan should be judged by different criteria. If Heffernan does not start to score immediately, or if the team doesn't click immediately when he us picked, you take this as evidence that he is not up to this level. Be consistent laddie.

It doesn't need statistics to tell me he's not good enough, my own eye site and judgement will do that.  I've even seen people say Heffs scored in league 1 on loan.  Yes he did, 5 goals in his 15 starts.  Now compare that to Sharp's 15 goals in 30 in the league above.

Opinions aside if you want to use statistics, starts, runs whatever, it still doesn't get away from the fact that Heffernan still hasn't played in a winning side for Rovers this season and in his last 15 starts both for us and Bristol Rovers, he has 4 goals.  If 15 starts between 26th January and now, isn't a run of playing football then what is?  Are you seriously telling me that 4 goals in a run of 15 games is good enough?

We all know he didn't have a great chance at the start of the season and has not had many starts for us this seaosn (just 6).  But you can't claim he hasn't had a run of first team football.  Be it at league 1 or Championship level it shouldn't really make much difference to Heffernan who is a pro and should perform to the same level in both leagues.

Cool hard fact of day is IMO Heffs does not offer a goal threat for us at this moment at time.  Can you really tell me you feel confident we'll score goals with Heffernan playing up front?

As for Sharp scoring goals, that is a fair point, he did score 2 in his first 7 starts.  One slight difference, he did claim assists and plenty of them.  I'd be happier with Heff up front if he was at least creating goals but he doesn't get assists either.

Once again, we're assailed by your opinions without facts to back them up.

The fact is that Sharp had 2 assists in his first 10 matches. He has 6 assists in 32 starts this year which is a decent return. Heffernan had 4 assists in 19 starts last year which is a slightly better rate.

You are consistently missing the key point which is that Heffernan has NOT had a consistent run AT THIS LEVEL this year. After being dropped in August, he has started one match against Middlesborough when the team imploded and has come back into a squad that has not even been able to fill the bench, such is the injury crisis. You are judging him on the odd match here and there. That neither sensible nor fair, and nor does it take into account the lad's record when he HAS had a consistent run over the last 4 years, which is second to none.

Your choice of course. I just get annoyed at people spouting opinions when the facts don't back them up. More than ever at Election time.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

You can't back your opinion up by saying he hasn't been tried.  Yet again you avoid the league 1 issue. Heff consistently played at that level this season and still didn't score at the rate of Sharp whilst playing in the level below.  No doubt there's an excuse for that one aswell.

I've now decided we should recall Lewis Guy, he hasn't had a run of starts in this league either so he might be good enough.

Load of twaddle.

[BillyStubbsTears]

bobjimwilly wrote:

BST, please answer this simple question for us:

Let's pretend we can afford Sharp and his wages, and we have to have one or the other, who do we sign?

a) Billy Sharp
b) Paul Heffernan

And no backchat please, this isn't a forum you know!  B)

I'd rather have Sharp. No question. He brings a different dimension to the team with his physical style and it'd be daft to ignore that. Sharp has been a better player than I expected, I'll freely admit that, but if anything he's simply gone further out of our price range.

Course, I'd rather have Wayne Rooney than Sharp, but there's not much chance of us being able to afford him either...

The issue has always been whether we were making the most of a player that we already DID own. I said back in August on the day we signed Sharp that come the end of May we'd be left with neither Sharp nor Heffernan, and we'd have a major goalscoring crisis on our hands for next season, having effectively written off a proven goalscorer who could (on last season's performances) have been worth several hundred thousand pounds. As you well know, I have my opinions on that. Others don't seem to mind that the club has wasted one of it's best assets of the last few years.

[Alan Southstand]

Without any facts to back it up, I think most people recognise the overall impact that Billy had on the team, when compared to anyone who held the slot previously. You can quote statistics all day long, BST, but at the end of the day, I know who I'd rather have in our side and who I'd rather go and watch.

It's just not worth the effort making the comparison anymore, as I think we've moved on, as a team and as a Club. I just hope we can keep the momentum going!