Gordon Brown Resigns

[BillyStubbsTears]

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

I think what's happening in Greece etc demonstrates why we should act now.  I'm no expert on what happened 20 years ago, hell I'm 22 years old why should I comment on it, you lived through it. But in reality times have changed, political parties change.  Afterall in the 19th century it was the Tories who were seen as the party of the working class.

Textbook wise though of course it would make sense to protect people now.  But the public finance situation is so grave that we just have to start cutting the debt, it cannot be allowed to keep growing exponentially.  You'll see how bad it is when the national accounts are finally released and they should be now the election has passed, afterall the previous government delayed its release by 9 months.

Where to start?

1) I'm 43. I didn't live through the Holocaust, the Somme, the Tolpuddle Martyrs or the employment of kids down the pit, but I still have opinions on the morality of it.

2) Of course political parties can change. But EVERY SINGLE economic policy of this lot says that they are ideological Thatcherites. It's POLICIES that matter, not blind naive hope that things will be different this time.

3) You think the Tories were the on the side of the working class in the 19th Century? Give me strength.

4) We are not REMOTELY in the same position as Greece. We have a similar current deficit, but nothing like their level of overall debt. THAT is why Greece is such a basket case.

5) There is more than one way to cut a deficit. One way is to slash spending. That's what we are now going to get. The other way is to encourage growth. That is what we are NOT going to get.

The saddest thing of all about this mate, is that it is YOU who will suffer. The savage cuts in public sector spending will depress the overall economy and mean that we will emerge more slowly from recession (or dip back into it). It's your age group that will bear the brunt. I know you're having problems as it is, but they will be exacerbated by the economic policies of the Tories.

[BillyStubbsTears]

MrFrost wrote:

Isn't that why you vote? For your own interests?

As I say. Different outlooks. I'll be honest with you - I personally would be better off in the long term under a Tory Government. Call me an old softie, but I think there's more to life than my own bank account.

And on THAT note cocker, I'm off to sleep the sleep of the righteous...

PS: No comments about the things I said about the banks?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rigoglioso wrote:

Making cuts will effect everyone and some people may view it as the wrong option. However, I'm pretty sure in every recession there has ever been, people will have been taken aback by the savage nature of the recession - irrespective of whether it be Tory or Labour who's been in power.

At the risk of sounding like a patronising old git, you have no idea what a savage recession is. Because you have been cushioned in this one by deliberate government policies. Ask someone who is 35 or older what a savage recession feels like.

Cuts are needed now! Not later, NOW, to prevent us from reaching a similar situation to Greece.

As I said before, it's a matter of timing. Of course cuts are required. Absolutely no doubt about that. But the timing is crucial. Cut too alte and sure, the debt gets bigger than it need be, and the economy overheats. But cutting too early is equally dangerous. It risks shafting the recovery and making the recession far more severe than it needs to be.

Of course, Cameron's lot were calling for cuts 2 years ago. It's in their DNA. Such cuts would have severely worsened the recession. Paul Krugman (again) called that policy \"disastrous\". So who's judgment would you trust? A Noble Laureate or the bloke who used to run the Eton tuck shop?

You'll have the pleasure of watching and learning first hand now my friend over the next 5 years.

[Chris]

I think I'm right in saying that after three terms in government, change within the party itself is needed. New ideas and new faces are needed for Labour.

Also, it sounds stupid but this election was a good election to lose. The Conservatives were left with a choice between either a minority government, which would struggle to get things through the HoC, or a coalition which would be established between two parties with fundamental differences, bringing obvious difficulties within this new coalition government. I do hope this coalition works for the good of the country but I feel it will be an uphill battle throughout. Both parties could be damaged when the next election is called (looking like fixed terms of 5 years will be installed) presenting Labour with a perfect opportunity to form government again in 5 years.

Labour obviously understood the potential positives and chance to rebuild their party, hence claims from the Lib Dems that Labour representatives in the meetings and negotiations seemed to have very little interest in reaching any agreement.


I have not read through all of this thread. Sorry if what I've said has already been discussed.

[MrFrost]

I don't know why everyone is getting worked up. The end of the world is only a little over 2 years away. We'll all laugh about this then.

[jucyberry]

MrFrost wrote:

Isn't that why you vote? For your own interests? My mum and dad were far better off under conservative rule. I personally wouldn't vote for labour because of the society they have built in this country that it is easier to stay at home and milk the country dry than it is to go out and earn  an honest living. Only under New Labour would you be given 150 notes for a new suit of you are unemployed. Meanwhile poor old Mavis down the road has British Gas cutting off her gas and leccy because she can't afford to pay the bills.

A two faced Government with no morals who would rather give an easy ride to work shy scum than it would look after it's elderly citizens who fought for our freedom sixty years ago,


BillyStubbsTears wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

I was brought up with a Tory Government. I never went without.

Lucky you. I had mates who didn't work for the thick end of a decade. Still, everyone for themselves eh?

I just have to laugh at the suggestion ... that we were within minutes of having the banks close their doors for good. It's nonsense.

As I said in the other post, easy to scoff now and say it was nothing. But the people in the know, those who had to make the decisions were shitting bricks at the time. None of them had EVER known a situation like it. Without Government intervention on a massive scale, some banks WOULD have collapsed. Some people WOULD have lost everything. No question.

But that wasn't half the problem. The far, far, far bigger problem was that the banks themselves had lost confidence in the system. They had become terrified to lend money to each other, in case someone else went the way of Lehamn Brothers and the whole thing collapsed. The banks had become the equivalent of the old lass keeping her life savings under the bed. And if that had not been sorted out, the result would have been that the supply of credit that the entire Western economy depends upon would have dried up. In simple terms, the Western economy would have collapsed. Viable businesses would have gone kaput by the thousand, because they woyuld not have been able to get credit to see them over a cashflow problem. MILLIONS, many millions would have been put out of work. No exaggeration. We WERE that close.

And it WOULD have happened if Brown had not shown the way out of it. The American's didn't have the first idea what to do. No-one in Europe knew what to do. After Brown announced our bank bail out plan, the rest of the world (Governments of all political colours) rushed to do the same thing within days.

The reason that we have (only) had a bad recession, not a decade-long Mother of All Depressions is because we were lucky enough to have Brown in position.

You lot can sleep easy in your beds and say, \"It wasn't that big a deal.\" You were lucky enough to have the man you needed to steer us through it, when (according to comments on here) you didn't even have an inkling of how dangerous the situation was. God help us if Osbourne had been at the helm.

I really do take exception with your statement, you make it sound like the job center is an offshoot of Next.

The reality of it is, if you get a job, and need the clothes for that job, then you get help to buy what is in essence your uniform.  You can't have it both ways, bitch about the unemployed, then whine like a Daily mail reader when they actually get a job.

but then, isn't that what being a tory is all about, I'm alright jack, f**k the rest?

Oh and another thing, not everyone on the dole actually wants to be on it, and believe you me, unless you are dishonest and crafty enough to milk the system then it is a hellish thing to be on, ask Filo, yet people lump everyone together as one amorphous mass and then demonise them.

when you are that poor for the majority, all that is left is your pride.

[CusworthRovers]

I think Cammo will be in for a bit yet. His Mrs is having a baby, and I would suggest the media/front pages are going to love that with the arrrrrh approach.

It's all new at the mo, but there are going to be some serious debates and voting once the newness wears off, I am sure many of this coalition will not vote against their own morals and the values of their party. I feel there are interesting times ahead.

I also feel Labour and Tory are as close now as they have ever been (almost like the 2 American parties), there is no alternative vote, and the propaganda machine will not allow it.

I'm starting to feel like Nudga, nearly all are out of touch with the man/woman/family on the street. 2 out of the 3 of our local MP's were pushed onto Donny as safe seats by the party spin (and not Donny people), with a view to being high flyers. It would not surprise me to see the next leader as being one of them. The 3rd MP Winterton is the only Donny person. And that's Rosie who went to Hill House Prep and Donny Grammar for Girls. Well done Rosie, but it seems even she is not a typical Donny bod.

[MattyDRFC]

I can't see how this coalition goverment will work?

both Lib Dems and the Tories both have differant polices with Immigration  and Taxes and a couple of other things.I can see other election happening in a years time just watch

[Filo]

What this election has proved for me is that when you vote there are only 2 options, Tory or Labour, a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote. The last few days have been very interesting, the next 12 months will be just as interesting, I really do hope that the present regime prove me wrong and lead us away from the economic crisis, but my instinct is based on previous Tory Governments and the fact that traditionally the Liberals and Conservatives are miles apart on most things, that we will be voting again long before the fixed 5 year deal the Lib-Con coalition agreed

[MrFrost]

The reality is that I know of someone who when for an interview as a kitchen assistant, and was given a new shuit from the job centre. Now when did you last see someone peeling spuds wearing a suit?

And I never said everyone who is on the dole is a scrounger. But Labour have bred a Jeremy Kyle culture in this country, where it is easier to pop out a few kids, do fcuk all with your life and rape the system.

jucyberry wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

Isn't that why you vote? For your own interests? My mum and dad were far better off under conservative rule. I personally wouldn't vote for labour because of the society they have built in this country that it is easier to stay at home and milk the country dry than it is to go out and earn  an honest living. Only under New Labour would you be given 150 notes for a new suit of you are unemployed. Meanwhile poor old Mavis down the road has British Gas cutting off her gas and leccy because she can't afford to pay the bills.

A two faced Government with no morals who would rather give an easy ride to work shy scum than it would look after it's elderly citizens who fought for our freedom sixty years ago,


BillyStubbsTears wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

I was brought up with a Tory Government. I never went without.

Lucky you. I had mates who didn't work for the thick end of a decade. Still, everyone for themselves eh?

I just have to laugh at the suggestion ... that we were within minutes of having the banks close their doors for good. It's nonsense.

As I said in the other post, easy to scoff now and say it was nothing. But the people in the know, those who had to make the decisions were shitting bricks at the time. None of them had EVER known a situation like it. Without Government intervention on a massive scale, some banks WOULD have collapsed. Some people WOULD have lost everything. No question.

But that wasn't half the problem. The far, far, far bigger problem was that the banks themselves had lost confidence in the system. They had become terrified to lend money to each other, in case someone else went the way of Lehamn Brothers and the whole thing collapsed. The banks had become the equivalent of the old lass keeping her life savings under the bed. And if that had not been sorted out, the result would have been that the supply of credit that the entire Western economy depends upon would have dried up. In simple terms, the Western economy would have collapsed. Viable businesses would have gone kaput by the thousand, because they woyuld not have been able to get credit to see them over a cashflow problem. MILLIONS, many millions would have been put out of work. No exaggeration. We WERE that close.

And it WOULD have happened if Brown had not shown the way out of it. The American's didn't have the first idea what to do. No-one in Europe knew what to do. After Brown announced our bank bail out plan, the rest of the world (Governments of all political colours) rushed to do the same thing within days.

The reason that we have (only) had a bad recession, not a decade-long Mother of All Depressions is because we were lucky enough to have Brown in position.

You lot can sleep easy in your beds and say, \"It wasn't that big a deal.\" You were lucky enough to have the man you needed to steer us through it, when (according to comments on here) you didn't even have an inkling of how dangerous the situation was. God help us if Osbourne had been at the helm.

I really do take exception with your statement, you make it sound like the job center is an offshoot of Next.

The reality of it is, if you get a job, and need the clothes for that job, then you get help to buy what is in essence your uniform.  You can't have it both ways, bitch about the unemployed, then whine like a Daily mail reader when they actually get a job.

but then, isn't that what being a tory is all about, I'm alright jack, fcuk the rest?

Oh and another thing, not everyone on the dole actually wants to be on it, and believe you me, unless you are dishonest and crafty enough to milk the system then it is a hellish thing to be on, ask Filo, yet people lump everyone together as one amorphous mass and then demonise them.

when you are that poor for the majority, all that is left is your pride.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

MrFrost wrote:

And I never said everyone who is on the dole is a scrounger. But Labour have bred a Jeremy Kyle culture in this country, where it is easier to pop out a few kids, do fcuk all with your life and rape the system.

Damn right.  I know people who do exactly that and it's not on.  I don't get handouts as a student, I have to pay mine back.  As it is I'd have been better off not bothering with uni.  

[eastender]

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

And I never said everyone who is on the dole is a scrounger. But Labour have bred a Jeremy Kyle culture in this country, where it is easier to pop out a few kids, do fcuk all with your life and rape the system.

Damn right.  I know people who do exactly that and it's not on.  I don't get handouts as a student, I have to pay mine back.  As it is I'd have been better off not bothering with uni.  

When asked in an interview why labour had lost so many seats,Labour MP Ben Bradshaw basically said hard working families are sick and tired of seeing other families living on the same estate as them , being better off by living on benefits.

Well it's a bit late now matey ,if ever there's a case of after the horse as bolted.

[River Don]

CusworthRovers wrote:

I also feel Labour and Tory are as close now as they have ever been (almost like the 2 American parties), there is no alternative vote, and the propaganda machine will not allow it.

I'm starting to feel like Nudga, nearly all are out of touch with the man/woman/family on the street. 2 out of the 3 of our local MP's were pushed onto Donny as safe seats by the party spin (and not Donny people), with a view to being high flyers. It would not surprise me to see the next leader as being one of them. The 3rd MP Winterton is the only Donny person. And that's Rosie who went to Hill House Prep and Donny Grammar for Girls. Well done Rosie, but it seems even she is not a typical Donny bod.

There's something in that, all three parties are fighting over the middle ground desperately trying to appeal to middle England. Really I didn't think there was a great deal of difference in their policies in most areas.

Perhaps that party explains why the Lib Dems and Tories reportedly found they got on so well during these negotiations? That said I'd take a bet now that it'll be the issue of our relationship with Europe that will be the failing. They couldn't be further apart on that one.

[BobG]

Some more interesting points on this thread tonight. And some more of the unthinking, flippant and utterly valueless prejudice from Mr Frost and his friends. I am staggered by the inability of folk like that to actually pause to think for a second. You may disagree. \\I have no problem with that. But to carry on spouting claptrap like \"I don't know why everyone is getting worked up\" simply demonstrates the utter fatuousness of the person saying it. If you disagree, give us a good reason why we are wrong! That's the entire essence of debate. As my old Dad used to tell me, 'Thesis, antithesis, synthesis!'. Mind you, I don't suppose you'll understand what that means either....

But River Don made the point about three parties fighting over the middle ground. As I'm sure Don knows, that's simple political strageic thinking in action. To win, any party has to appeal to the most people it can. If you are a left wing party, you will appeal only to those on the left. If you are a right wing one, ditto. But if either party moves its policies towards the centre, then not only do they have appeal to the majority of those on their natural wing (excepting only those on the far out edges) but they will also have some appeal to those not too far from the centre but on the other side. It's a simple policy designed to maiximise ones chances. Now, when Maggie won, she was out on the far right. So how come she won? Because the country was so hacked off with her predeccessors. How come she carried on winning when she was the most unpopular Prime Minister we ever had? Because she was saved by the Labour Party committing suicide by electing Michael Foot as its leader - a nice bloke but quite far left, and, the fact that Maggie managed to instigate a war with some tin pot South American country. Always was a good way to divert attention from political troubles at home - look for glamour, excitement and unity from abroad. Nixon did it. Countless 19thC British leaders did it. Maggie did it. (And I can already see the shocked and appalled response that that line is going to bring. But that cannot change its fundamental truth).

This country is not good at managing coalitions. We've not had many, and those we have had have always ended in tears. The odds are strong that this one will too. Which raises another interesting question: if we have fixed 5 year parliaments, how will a Government govern when it loses a vote of confidence?

Anyway, I've had a really good day. Alexander won a prize this morning speaking at the Cheltenham Festival of the Spoken Word. Though I say it msyelf, he was bloody good. And this afternoon he took a wicket and hit the most glorious cover drive through a sodden outfield to the boundary. I'm well chuffed. And tossers who are unable to think, and even worse unable to put together any rational case to support their prejudice can stew in the juice which is coming.

Cheers

BobG

[MrFrost]

Bob if you read, you would see why I don't want a labour goverenment. As for being flippent - well what's the point worrying about things that might not even happen. The last Tory goverent had no adverse effect on my family and in fact have been worse off under Labour.

I'd also like to know who the he'll you think you are insulting my intelligence. You've got a massive chip on your shoulder pal.

[Barmby Rover]

With one short statement you shoqw exactly why you do vote Tory \" The last Tory goverent had no adverse effect on my family\" so therefore I don't give a s*** about anybody else or whether it is morally correct, because I have won. That is the reason that Torys exist, the ultimate selfish attitude that dismisses anybody else and would never raise a finger to help their fellow man, but we are all Christians of course!
I have never been able to put myself in that mindset, which is why I am an atheist and a socialist, I have always thought about how actions affect others before I make a decision, even if it has cost me money or time. Very weak of me in your eyes I know, but that does allow me to live with myself, the Torys I have known have no conscience.

[MrFrost]

my family comes first. Sorry about that.
I've also seen a friends haulage firm go bust due to the crazy hike in fuel duty in the last government. An elderly family member forced to sell her home to pay for resesential care.
A goverenment that puts assylum seekers and the work shy before decent working folk and the elderly.

Thanks but I'd rather vote BNP.

Barmby Rover wrote:

With one short statement you shoqw exactly why you do vote Tory \" The last Tory goverent had no adverse effect on my family\" so therefore I don't give a s*** about anybody else or whether it is morally correct, because I have won. That is the reason that Torys exist, the ultimate selfish attitude that dismisses anybody else and would never raise a finger to help their fellow man, but we are all Christians of course!
I have never been able to put myself in that mindset, which is why I am an atheist and a socialist, I have always thought about how actions affect others before I make a decision, even if it has cost me money or time. Very weak of me in your eyes I know, but that does allow me to live with myself, the Torys I have known have no conscience.

[Barmby Rover]

I am not surprised by that at all Mr.Frost, the home of the none thinking , blaming anybody who is slightly different for their own ills. Don't think for God's sake, it might hurt.






Bythe way I hope to see you spitting bile and asking for JET,Stocky,Deano and any other foreigners to be thrown out of Donny, after all they are leaching off the true Brits and taking their jobs, that sort of scum should be sent \"home\" shouldn't they. Or maybe we ought to just start building the gas chambers to throw the Polish population into.

[BobG]

Another little thought: I have never, ever, ever, understood how anyone who claims to be a 'Christian' can vote anythng other than for a left leaning party. Think about it....

Of course, carpetbaggers like some of our friends on here are always free to vote selfishly. It's the ultimate expression of the proto fascist.

Cheers

BobG

[Filo]

Out of all the pro Tory voters in this thread I`ve yet to see anything that remotely resembles a reasoned argument as to why the Tory`s will be better than Labour. The only comments made are we need a change or my family did alright under the Tory`s, not one reason given about how they will be better!


In contrast the Anti Tory`s have come up with some well constructed arguments as to why we`ll all be royally shagged by the Tory`s, ignorance is bliss!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BobG wrote:

Another little thought: I have never, ever, ever, understood how anyone who claims to be a 'Christian' can vote anythng other than for a left leaning party. Think about it....

Ah Bob, you forget the Gospel according to Maggie. This was the woman who, with a straight face, once said in a speech that the only reason that the Good Samaritan was remembered was that he had made enough money to be able the poor man. Good eh? That really captures the deep and timeless message of the Bible. It's a bit like the Deep South bible basher I once heard saying \"God made diamonds for the rich people.\"

Then again, there was Maggie walking into No 10 in 1979, quoting St Francis of Asissi: \"Where there is doubt, let me bring faith. Where there is discord, let me bring harmony,\" etc.

'Course, the poor lass was emotional walking up Downing Street for the first time and fluffed her lines. What she actually meant was, \"Where there is  heavy industry, let me bring the ravages of the free market. Where there is robust working class society, let me bring carnage. Where there is privilege, let me bring tax cuts.\" It can happen to anyone.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo wrote:

Out of all the pro Tory voters in this thread I`ve yet to see anything that remotely resembles a reasoned argument as to why the Tory`s will be better than Labour. The only comments made are we need a change or my family did alright under the Tory`s, not one reason given about how they will be better!


In contrast the Anti Tory`s have come up with some well constructed arguments as to why we`ll all be royally shagged by the Tory`s, ignorance is bliss!

That is the most depressing thing about our democracy. People don't vote for policies. They vote on a general feeling. The policies are too difficult to mentally juggle, so you end up going on a gut instinct. The absolute anthithesis of what theoretical democracy should be about - rational, careful assessment of the relative merits of competing ideas. No wonder the Chinese use the word \"Democracy\" as an insult.

And I'm not saying this from a party viewpoint - it cuts across party lines. It happens every time an incumbent government is booted out.

I remember asking Labour supporting friends and family in 1997 what they expected of Tony Blair in terms of cold hard policies. Not one could reply. Neither could I, because he deliberately didn't say anything of substance - it was all about giving people the right feeling, not about appealing to intelligence.

Go back to the previous time a Government was voted out - when Maggie won in 1979. They used those brilliant \"Labour Isn't Working\" dole queue posters. They said they had no plans to double VAT (THE most vicious tax on the poorest). People trusted them. They put VAT up from 8% to 15% in their first Budget*. And they doubled unemployment in their first 18 months. The folk who voted for them never saw that coming, because they never engaged intellectually with the policies. They voted on instinct.


* And on THAT score, I'd put my great, fecund, sweaty gonads on VAT being increased to 20% within the next 12 months. Despite the Tories insisting that \"we have no plans to increase VAT\" during the campaign.

[BobG]

Actually BST, the not so astonishing fact that the intellectually challenged have the right to vote at all is probably the biggest single weakness of democracy at all.

What do the IC base the choice of their vote on I wonder?

- What Ma and Pa voted
- Pretty/handsome faces
- Sound bites
- what the bloke down the pub said
- my family has done (or not done) alright

Anything else?

They are a challenge to the long term existance of democracy. It's that unthinking, uncaring approach that allows me of ill will to succeed. I'm sure you'll know Edmund Burke's famous line that \"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing\". These guys won't face up to the implications of what we see about us today (And I'm not talking about who won and lost the sodding election here either).
If I were Lord of the Universe I'd disenfranchise the lot. By Diktat. That seems to be philosophy most akin to their bent.

Cheers

BobG

[Sandy Lane]

The thing I love about the forum in general and the political threads specifically, is how much I learn.  I think it's important to just listen to what is being said, particularly if you haven't experienced what others have.   Listen to what they say and then watch what  happens and hopefully you'll recognize these policies or however they choose to package the measures, when they come.

I used to work in the NYS Assembly, which is part of THE most dysfunctional state legislature in the country, and occasionally bills which were passed contained nasty little hidden measures in the same legislation as more palpable measures forcing the Members to vote for the bill, while explaining to their constituents that it was for the 'greater good' (if they even realized it was in there at all).  So watching out for packaging is key. So who knows how the coalition will go about this process, but it will be interesting to watch.

[jucyberry]

the tories under thatcher managed to kill off many things in this country.. for you it was the mines, for us here it has been the slow decline and eventual death of many rural villages.

living as I do in a costal area the tories 'wonderful' idea to sell off the housing stock at knock down prices has been a slow running cancer. Greedy kids scooping up their parents council houses to sell off  at a profit when ma and pa pop off..I'm sorry, but when does council housing stock become anyones birthright. it makes me so mad.  My aunt still lives in the same house, she has done for 80 years, she is the only tennant still in her row, only one of three houses inhabited all year round, for there in lies the rub. around her when the houses are sold off, they aren't bought by local people.. they are bought by greedy bas**rds who want a second house by the seaside.

the number of youngsters dwindle, with very few cheap houses they have to move out, shops close and eventually the village dies.

[MrFrost]

So now your finding fault with the right to buy scheme. Without that slot of people simply wouldn't be able to get on the property ladder.

Bob you like to show off on here with your big words and flashy quotes. It doesn't impress me. When it comes to politics I will vote for a party I will vote for the one I think will benefit me and those close to me.

I would never vote for a government so quick to throw handouts to illegal imigrants and scum who have no intention of ever working. I want a goverenment who will look after those who earn it and who are legally a citizen of this country. Those who don't should frankly be left to rot.

There are people genuinely out of work who want to. This isn't aimed at you.


jucyberry wrote:

the tories under thatcher managed to kill off many things in this country.. for you it was the mines, for us here it has been the slow decline and eventual death of many rural villages.

living as I do in a costal area the tories 'wonderful' idea to sell off the housing stock at knock down prices has been a slow running cancer. Greedy kids scooping up their parents council houses to sell off  at a profit when ma and pa pop off..I'm sorry, but when does council housing stock become anyones birthright. it makes me so mad.  My aunt still lives in the same house, she has done for 80 years, she is the only tennant still in her row, only one of three houses inhabited all year round, for there in lies the rub. around her when the houses are sold off, they aren't bought by local people.. they are bought by greedy bas**rds who want a second house by the seaside.

the number of youngsters dwindle, with very few cheap houses they have to move out, shops close and eventually the village dies.

[CusworthRovers]

Take a leaf out of my book. Don't bother with expensive burglar alarms, outside lights and all the latest hi-tech security gadgets. If you don't want the dregs and scum coming anywhere near to your house. Simply hang a 2 worded sign on the front of your house:


JOB CENTRE

[Filo]

CusworthRovers wrote:

Take a leaf out of my book. Don't bother with expensive burglar alarms, outside lights and all the latest hi-tech security gadgets. If you don't want the dregs and scum coming anywhere near to your house. Simply hang a 2 worded sign on the front of your house:


JOB CENTRE

One slight flaw in that my old 6 fingered bog woppit, the Job Centre is where you go to sign for your benefits

[CusworthRovers]

I thought it was just a place where you go to look for work. As a mancunian once said 'that joke isn't funny anymore'........now

You've ruined it now. You've destroyed my life. I want to kill myself.

[DonnyNoel]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

* And on THAT score, I'd put my great, fecund, sweaty gonads on VAT being increased to 20% within the next 12 months. Despite the Tories insisting that \"we have no plans to increase VAT\" during the campaign.

Impressive - its just been on the radio that a 3% rise in VAT is \"on the cards\"! Wonder if they read this forum!