This Country is a Joke

[not on facebook]

iam on same side of fence as mr frost on this one as i
belive in that saying charity begins at home

why should somebody or family never worked or lived so paid tax in the uk,appear on the british shore line and get given a
top notch house with amply mod coms thrown in.

i have no problem them getting a house with amply mod coms
but a 2million pound house is just wrong.

dont give me that b*llocks do i read the dail mail or am i bnp ....iam just a chap who has a opinion.

gets on me tits when plums try to accuse you of been national front or bnp on just on the basis  your thoughts are opposite to theirs

[BobG]

\"Many people simply wouldn't have been able to get on the property ladder with out the right to buy scheme\".

\"Provide them all with houses and benefits that the state pays for? No wonder this country is in such a financial mess\".

\"Whatever the conditions of where they were living, they would have been a damn sight better than they were in Somalia\".

I'm absolutely fascinated by these, and many other, posts of the same ilk - the dragging in of extraneous and irrelevant arguments to support a position that is morally insupportable; bringing in ewmotion (my old man couldn't have bought a house...); drag in as a buttress an utterly unrelated, and unsupported statement about the national finances; drag in a completely fanciful personal theory along the way too, the details of which circumstance I notice not even the puerile Mail went into.

I've never seen a better argument for benevolent despotism than this thread. Or maybe even plain old despotism to be honest. It's frightening. It really is. That opinions like these can be held, with conviction, in this day and age is plain scary when we are supposedly, educated people with an ability to think with our brains rather than with our emotions.

BobG

[wilts rover]

I noticed this thread was getting a lot of hits so thought I ought to check it out. Did a quick internet search to see more about and ..... nothing, only the DM is running it, hmmm.
OK so supposing it is true, I cant really be bothered to read through 5 pages of comment on it to see who is saying what and whose grandma lived in the biggest cardboard box (one side of my family came over after the Irish famine, many others didnt make it - the other side was forced off their 'land' and liveliehood as were many other IoA families following Vermuyden), change, hardship, poverty, war, people move or stay for various reasons, some are welcome and contribute to the community and some dont. So just for my interest would anybody care to reply as to why this story is so objectionable, is it:

because the family are not british (am I - is the Queen - are you if you go back far enough)?
because they are black?
because they are refugees?
because you dont believe they are refugees?
because they live in a posh house?
because they live in a posh house and you dont?
because they moved from one area of London to another?
because Boris Johnson's social services dept gave them a posh house?
because prior to them moving in the rent for this house was £1050 and is rented out to them at £2000?
because there are areas of London it is unsafe to live in?
because they are ungrateful for leaving all their friends & family behind in a village of mud huts (very nice mud huts if you are Somali pirate btw)?
there are better things to spend the money on?

or if you want my view whilst you are pondering all or none of these, I subscribe to this comment I found on another forum on the topic

who gives a f**k anyway. poor people live in a big house with rich neighbours.. another non story

[jucyberry]

Another thing that gets me is the assumptions about the families decor, they have a big t.v and nice rugs and pot plants. So A, some snouty bas**rd has been peering through their windows,

 and B, the opinion is fosterd that they have these things because they are on benefits. Mr Nur had been in work , at the same time he would have been entitled to working family tax credits, as do the majority of people with kids who might not like this story. On a large family such as theirs, seven kids under 16 i believe, that is a lot of perfectly legal credits. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that their furnishings were purchaced then........

 But that doesn't read so well as how very dare they be immigrant scroungers taking money of us jolly Englanders does it?

[Nudga]

Could they simply not move them to Barnet or Watford? The point is, why does ANYBODY on benefits deserve a £2mil house which costs the taxpayer £8k a month. It's not the fact of WHO is in that big f**k off house, it's the astronomical rent that needs paying.

[MrFrost]

BobG wrote:

\"Many people simply wouldn't have been able to get on the property ladder with out the right to buy scheme\".

\"Provide them all with houses and benefits that the state pays for? No wonder this country is in such a financial mess\".

\"Whatever the conditions of where they were living, they would have been a damn sight better than they were in Somalia\".

I'm absolutely fascinated by these, and many other, posts of the same ilk - the dragging in of extraneous and irrelevant arguments to support a position that is morally insupportable; bringing in ewmotion (my old man couldn't have bought a house...); drag in as a buttress an utterly unrelated, and unsupported statement about the national finances; drag in a completely fanciful personal theory along the way too, the details of which circumstance I notice not even the puerile Mail went into.

I've never seen a better argument for benevolent despotism than this thread. Or maybe even plain old despotism to be honest. It's frightening. It really is. That opinions like these can be held, with conviction, in this day and age is plain scary when we are supposedly, educated people with an ability to think with our brains rather than with our emotions.

BobG

The walking thesaurus again.

I'll just be blunt. No beating around the bush. Anyone who thinks its ok for this family (or any other) to be getting an 8k a month house paid for by the tax payer. is a pillock.

[MrFrost]

jucyberry wrote:

Another thing that gets me is the assumptions about the families decor, they have a big t.v and nice rugs and pot plants. So A, some snouty bas**rd has been peering through their windows,

 and B, the opinion is fosterd that they have these things because they are on benefits. Mr Nur had been in work , at the same time he would have been entitled to working family tax credits, as do the majority of people with kids who might not like this story. On a large family such as theirs, seven kids under 16 i believe, that is a lot of perfectly legal credits. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that their furnishings were purchaced then........

 But that doesn't read so well as how very dare they be immigrant scroungers taking money of us jolly Englanders does it?

7 kids. Tax credits should stop after your first three kids IMO. Take the family reported not long back, who have 8 kids, and the only reason they keep having kids is for more benefits.

[jucyberry]

Rather a pillock than a self reightous , bombastic know not as much as we could type... Not that we know any of them of course....  

Perhaps it is the RENT not the rebates that need capping. After all, landlords seem to be able to charge what they want don't they?










Righty ho, I'm off to bed, my taxes don't earn themselves you know....Nighty night boys...lol.x

[MrFrost]

jucyberry wrote:

Rather a pillock than a self reightous , bombastic know not as much as we could type... Not that we know any of them of course....  

Perhaps it is the RENT not the rebates that need capping. After all, landlords seem to be able to charge what they want don't they?










Righty ho, I'm off to bed, my taxes don't earn themselves you know....Nighty night boys...lol.x

Landlords are owners of the property are they not. It is the government that are stupid enough to pay the rent that they set. Not for much longer thank God.

[Snods Shinpad 2]

More from the Mail

So the blokes been working and paying taxes in the UK for the past 12 years and as I understand it is entitled to (if he hasn't already) citizenship.

[MrFrost]

The original story said that one of the reasons for the move was due to it being nearer a school as taking the kids on the bus was too much hassle.
It didn't actually specify what problems the family had with the local area. I'm guessing they were probably non existant.

[BobG]

Every time Mr Frost comes up against a debate where his views prove unacceptable to others, he resorts to abuse. That's why I think I'm in favour of despotism of another kind.

Think on this Mr Frost: the last Conservative Home Secretary but one was the son of immigrants; the designer of the Mini, Sir Alec Issigonis, was an immigrant; both the two major newspaper proprietors of the 1980's were immigrants, one of them still is; Winston Churchill was the son of an immigrant. I could list hundreds and hundreds. As well as being a thesaurus, I have a brain and I know how to use it. I know that this country would lose half its intellectual and commercial capital if it did not allow immigrants on to its shores.

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

Snods Shinpad 2 wrote:

More from the Mail

So the blokes been working and paying taxes in the UK for the past 12 years and as I understand it is entitled to (if he hasn't already) citizenship.

Ah, but he's an asylum seeker, dontcha know, that means he's not entitled to what the rest of us are, he should be just damn grateful to be allowed to breath British air. :side:

[Glyn_Wigley]

MrFrost wrote:

The original story said that one of the reasons for the move was due to it being nearer a school as taking the kids on the bus was too much hassle.
It didn't actually specify what problems the family had with the local area. I'm guessing they were probably non existant.

A non-existant story in the Daily Mail? Perish the thought!

[German Rover]

This country is a joke is the title of this thread, I have recently moved back to UK and all the time i was in germany i paid tax to HM government so feel I haave a right to say how the money i pay is spent.  If the family have managed to exploit a loophole then fairplay to them it isn't their fault the loophole exists, its the people who came up with the legislation, don't blame the player blame the game, as for the immigration bit the UK is built on asylum both my mothers parents were immigrants and they both served this country during WW2 and my grandad in the army following the war, would the people adsvocating throwing immigrants out throw my gran out of the country.  thought not.

 the country is propped up by immigration with economic migrants (and that is what most immigrants are) doing jobs that english people think are below them. The country is a joke but its these people who read the daily mail and get terrified at the prospect of this evil asylum seeker who will rape and murder their entire family because of this rag of a newspaper talking about it everyday in massive headlines.

Give me a country full of immigrants before a country full of ignorant work shy lay abouts any day

[BobG]

He probably doesn't want to to be honest Glyn. Too much hot air around altogether.

[MrFrost]

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

The original story said that one of the reasons for the move was due to it being nearer a school as taking the kids on the bus was too much hassle.
It didn't actually specify what problems the family had with the local area. I'm guessing they were probably non existant.

A non-existant story in the Daily Mail? Perish the thought!

Ignorance and denial pal. The story does exist.

Another thought...........where is the incentive now for this guy to get a job. He gets a job, his housing benefit is cut. Goodbye £2million house.

He also has had 7 children when he couldn't possibly financially cope with them. I wonder how much tax credits he is claiming in addition to the 8k a month.
I'm sorry, but if this guy is any kind of father it is his duty to provide for his children. If he chooses to have 7 kids, then he should have the means to feed them. He lost his job 18 month ago. Could he not get agency work? Even on a temp basis would be better than nothing.

And this has nothing to do with the country he comes from. I would have the same opinion of anyone in the same position.

My thoughts on asylum are completely seperate to this case.

[BobG]

Inflation must have shot up since I last took notice of what our beloved Government are doimg. £8K a week now? f**k me!

Still, not to worry. We can let those children starve. That'll put the economy right and it won't hurt anybody that matters will it?

BobG

[MrFrost]

You have to ask the question why he had 7 children without the means to provide for his family. Maybe because he knew the state would pay for it all?
I've got a young family, work 13 hours a day alot of the time. The Mrs works aswell. We have to pay our rent, bills, childcare. We don't have the luxury of housing benefit and it is a fcucking struggle.
You take people like this guy, he has worked for a few years granted, but spat out kids to fund his mod cons and his now luxourious pad.

[jucyberry]

MrFrost wrote:

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

The original story said that one of the reasons for the move was due to it being nearer a school as taking the kids on the bus was too much hassle.
It didn't actually specify what problems the family had with the local area. I'm guessing they were probably non existant.

A non-existant story in the Daily Mail? Perish the thought!

Ignorance and denial pal. The story does exist.

Another thought...........where is the incentive now for this guy to get a job. He gets a job, his housing benefit is cut. Goodbye £2million house.

He also has had 7 children when he couldn't possibly financially cope with them. I wonder how much tax credits he is claiming in addition to the 8k a month.
I'm sorry, but if this guy is any kind of father it is his duty to provide for his children. If he chooses to have 7 kids, then he should have the means to feed them. He lost his job 18 month ago. Could he not get agency work? Even on a temp basis would be better than nothing.

And this has nothing to do with the country he comes from. I would have the same opinion of anyone in the same position.

My thoughts on asylum are completely seperate to this case.

At least read the blasted article. He is doing that. He is trying. And he wont be in recipt of working tax credits now. He will recieve only the child tax credit element now. Not that I feel that is anyones business but his quite frankly.

[MrFrost]

jucyberry wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

The original story said that one of the reasons for the move was due to it being nearer a school as taking the kids on the bus was too much hassle.
It didn't actually specify what problems the family had with the local area. I'm guessing they were probably non existant.

A non-existant story in the Daily Mail? Perish the thought!

Ignorance and denial pal. The story does exist.

Another thought...........where is the incentive now for this guy to get a job. He gets a job, his housing benefit is cut. Goodbye £2million house.

He also has had 7 children when he couldn't possibly financially cope with them. I wonder how much tax credits he is claiming in addition to the 8k a month.
I'm sorry, but if this guy is any kind of father it is his duty to provide for his children. If he chooses to have 7 kids, then he should have the means to feed them. He lost his job 18 month ago. Could he not get agency work? Even on a temp basis would be better than nothing.

And this has nothing to do with the country he comes from. I would have the same opinion of anyone in the same position.

My thoughts on asylum are completely seperate to this case.

At least read the blasted article. He is doing that. He is trying. And he wont be in recipt of working tax credits now. He will recieve only the child tax credit element now. Not that I feel that is anyones business but his quite frankly.

b*llocks to that love. If my taxes are funding his life, then I feel it is my business to know what he is and isn't claiming.
Lets face it, they have come here, bred like mice and are now taking the piss. Roll on the £400 per week housing benefit cap.

[BobG]

Maybe mate. Maybe. But it neither sounds right from you not does you any credit either when earlier in this thread you wrote:

\"Now you have a family of asylum seekers. Granted asylum because sending them home would infringe on their human rights. They've never contributed to our society, yet they get put up in a £900 a week house\".

Note the first part of the final sentence. I'm afraid you change your story every time someone points out the errors in the previous version. It's why we all delight so much in winding you up. You're easy, and you have no credibility at all. Stop digging holes ever deeper for a bit and have a think about how to present an argument. I'm not being sarky here. I admire your passion. But you really do have to learn about the research, the consistency and the presentation of an argument. Ask Billy for some advice. He's good at it.

Cheers

BobG

[bobjimwilly]

MrFrost wrote:

b*llocks to that love. If my taxes are funding his life, then I feel it is my business to know what he is and isn't claiming.
Lets face it, they have come here, bred like mice and are now taking the piss. Roll on the £400 per week housing benefit cap.

I think this last quote sums you up perfectly MrFrost.  

[Snods Shinpad 2]

MrFrost wrote:

but spat out kids to fund his mod cons and his now luxourious pad.

Jesus.  

How the hell do you know this? Do you know this bloke personally or something?

Sounds like you think this would be a good idea.

[Glyn_Wigley]

MrFrost wrote:
b*llocks to that love. If my taxes are funding his life, then I feel it is my business to know what he is and isn't claiming.[/quote]

Ooh goody. That means that because I'm funding your Child Benefit, I have the right to know all your private stuff. Yippee.

[MrFrost]

BobG wrote:

Maybe mate. Maybe. But it neither sounds right from you not does you any credit either when earlier in this thread you wrote:

\"Now you have a family of asylum seekers. Granted asylum because sending them home would infringe on their human rights. They've never contributed to our society, yet they get put up in a £900 a week house\".

Note the first part of the final sentence. I'm afraid you change your story every time someone points out the errors in the previous version. It's why we all delight so much in winding you up. You're easy, and you have no credibility at all. Stop digging holes ever deeper for a bit and have a think about how to present an argument. I'm not being sarky here. I admire your passion. But you really do have to learn about the research, the consistency and the presentation of an argument. Ask Billy for some advice. He's good at it.

Cheers

BobG

Bob, my thoughts on asylum are as I have pointed out, however I am trying to seperate the two for now, as this, after thought, isn't a question of where they come from.
All parties are to blame here. The family, the council, the landlord. It stinks. There is no way, at all, anyone should be able to claim that amount of money for a home. You cannot justify it. Hence the caps due to be brought in.

Back to asylum. I believe it is too easy to:
1. Gain entry to the UK
2. Be granted asylum
3. Disapear into the woodwork if you are refused asylum
4. Cry human rights
5. Come here with the sole intention of starting a family and claiming benefits (which some will do. Not all but some)

On the flip side, immigration has its benefits. Alot are hard working decent people, and do jobs that alot of Brits wouldn't dream of doing. You cant stop immigration, nor would I want it to. But it has to be controlled alot better.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Snods Shinpad 2 wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

but spat out kids to fund his mod cons and his now luxourious pad.

Jesus.  

How the hell do you know this? Do you know this bloke personally or something?

Sounds like you think this would be a good idea.

Of course he doesn't know it, but then he hasn't reasd the bit about the bloke only having been out of work for the last 18 months. Unless he somehow thinks his missus has somehow spat out seven sprogs in that time just to bump up the benefits.  :side:

[BobG]

As I implied a little earlier, I reckon Mr Frost could be a damn good speaker. He has the passion, the strength of mind and the vigour that are all needed. But nicking crap like that from the BNP/Daily Mail/Middle England handbook on 'Handy myths with which to abuse foreigners', precisely shows why he never will be. It's facts that win debates. Not unthinking rhetoric. All that does is destroy your credibility. Tell you what Mr Frost, how about I join your side of the debate for a while?

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

I bet he believes all the crap 'Eurobureaucracy' stories the Mail/Express/Sun prints too.

[MrFrost]

Bob, I have took the story of this family and come to my conclusions myself regarding his intentions, and I believe he is playing the system to his own end. A shed load of kids, wanting to move to a better house. He obviously knew it would work, and you have to wonder wether the landlord of the property is a personal friend of his and in on the whole scheme.
I have many opinions regarding asylum, religion etc. Many would probably cause offence, and I would be labelled as some kind of BNP candidate. I'm better at putting my point across while talking than writing on a forum. I get writers block!