Brexit Benefits Log

[belton rover]

Belton.

EVERY sovereign market chooses who to trade with!

The salient point here is that the EU hasn't changed its policies to hit us, which is what Tory ministers and Tory papers have been saying.

Third or fourth time I've repeated this now so apologies if I'm sounding like a broken record, but the following point is key and doesn't seem to be getting through.

The EU's policy on fish imports is that  fish caught in Class B waters cannot be imported into the EU from a third country for purification in the EU. That, apparently, has been the policy for years. 8 weeks ago, we were not a third country. We chose to become a third country. So the problems this causes for our fishing industry is entirely and solely a result of our choice of policy.

You seem to still be complaining that the EU won't bend the rules to help us out. But that's missing THE massive point. The EU cannot and will not allow third countries to have selected benefits of SM membership. Full stop. That will not happen because it would mean the destruction of the SM.

And, crucially, anyone who was prepared to look at the issues dispassionately knew this years ago. So the Govt putting on a surprised face now and shouting "unfair" means they are either stupid, or deliberately deceiving people. And I don't think they are stupid.

You misunderstand my point. I’m not complaining that they won’t bend the rules for us. I’m expressing my view that choosing not to trade with us BECAUSE we left is not in the best interests of their members who will suffer because of it. They have every right to make things as difficult as they can, but I wouldn’t have thought even the EU would do that at all costs.

I also think that in time, they will welcome such trade again if it benefits them.

You don't seem to get it do you? The EU are NOT making things difficult for us, WE have made it difficult for US!  You voted leave, own it, stop blaming the EU, deliver the lies you believed in!

The EU are bitter, bitter, bitter, but not nearly as bitter as you are.
For all your knowledge and passion, your obsessive bitterness is your fundamental, fatal flaw:

I’m not blaming the EU. The people I blame are everyone involved in the idea, the passing of and the whole process of the referendum. You seem incapable of seeing anything but Remain= good, Leave=evil. It’s really not like that.

 But, despite that, WE, as a democratic society, which includes you, voted to leave.
You ‘own’ it as much as I do. You have as much responsibility to make it work as I do.

You do have two options:
1. Own it. Stop moaning - it absolutely makes no difference now. It’s done. Help the country make it work.

2 Don’t own it. Live in the EU.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Many of us are trying to make it work. My own staff are currently trying to sort out the paperwork for a key item of equipment we want to import from Italy which would have been one click 8 weeks ago. To date we've spent 25% of the total cost on admin.

But it's not as simple as just "making it work". We also have a responsibility to reflect on how and why we got here. And that goes to the core of this discussion.

I'd be delighted to see our oyster sellers find a way round the current problems as you suggest they might. But there's a bigger issue. It's the fact that the people who brought us Brexit by lying to us are still lying to us now about the consequences. That was the core of the issue. The fact that the Govt and their press supporters have been insisting that the reason our shellfish industry is on the rocks is because the EU have chosen to make it hard for them. Which is a demonstrable lie.

And if we shrug and ignore that, they will lie to us about the next big decision. And the next. Democracy only works if people hold them responsible.

[belton rover]

Of course we need to reflect. The whole process was a total f**k up by everyone involved, for years and years. But there is an incomparable difference between reflection and refusing to accept.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.
Who isn't accepting? Brexit happened. We are dealing with it. It's a fact.

As far as reflecting goes though, I'm not seeing much from certain people in here. Just constant pushback when the predicted problems actually happen, and accusations of bias when still ongoing lies are laid out.

[belton rover]

Billy. My comment about making it work was a direct response to another poster who cannot accept it despite thinly veiled threads like this one.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have expressed my regret several times that the vote happened in the first place and that we have had years of a complete f**k up from start to not-yet-finished. If that’s not reflection, I really don’t know what is.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Many of us are trying to make it work. My own staff are currently trying to sort out the paperwork for a key item of equipment we want to import from Italy which would have been one click 8 weeks ago. To date we've spent 25% of the total cost on admin.

But it's not as simple as just "making it work". We also have a responsibility to reflect on how and why we got here. And that goes to the core of this discussion.

I'd be delighted to see our oyster sellers find a way round the current problems as you suggest they might. But there's a bigger issue. It's the fact that the people who brought us Brexit by lying to us are still lying to us now about the consequences. That was the core of the issue. The fact that the Govt and their press supporters have been insisting that the reason our shellfish industry is on the rocks is because the EU have chosen to make it hard for them. Which is a demonstrable lie.

And if we shrug and ignore that, they will lie to us about the next big decision. And the next. Democracy only works if people hold them responsible.

I do slightly agree on the first point, though I've found it much less costly than yourself to import.  More pressing for my current industry is HMRC changing just about every tax treatment at the same time, really poor timing.

Just a further point on Oysters and fish, does it not say something about our green credentials that we're actually not focussed more on cleaning up our waters, which is at best alarming, but IMO pretty disgraceful?

[Not Now Kato]

Belton.

EVERY sovereign market chooses who to trade with!

The salient point here is that the EU hasn't changed its policies to hit us, which is what Tory ministers and Tory papers have been saying.

Third or fourth time I've repeated this now so apologies if I'm sounding like a broken record, but the following point is key and doesn't seem to be getting through.

The EU's policy on fish imports is that  fish caught in Class B waters cannot be imported into the EU from a third country for purification in the EU. That, apparently, has been the policy for years. 8 weeks ago, we were not a third country. We chose to become a third country. So the problems this causes for our fishing industry is entirely and solely a result of our choice of policy.

You seem to still be complaining that the EU won't bend the rules to help us out. But that's missing THE massive point. The EU cannot and will not allow third countries to have selected benefits of SM membership. Full stop. That will not happen because it would mean the destruction of the SM.

And, crucially, anyone who was prepared to look at the issues dispassionately knew this years ago. So the Govt putting on a surprised face now and shouting "unfair" means they are either stupid, or deliberately deceiving people. And I don't think they are stupid.

You misunderstand my point. I’m not complaining that they won’t bend the rules for us. I’m expressing my view that choosing not to trade with us BECAUSE we left is not in the best interests of their members who will suffer because of it. They have every right to make things as difficult as they can, but I wouldn’t have thought even the EU would do that at all costs.

I also think that in time, they will welcome such trade again if it benefits them.

You don't seem to get it do you? The EU are NOT making things difficult for us, WE have made it difficult for US!  You voted leave, own it, stop blaming the EU, deliver the lies you believed in!

The EU are bitter, bitter, bitter, but not nearly as bitter as you are.
For all your knowledge and passion, your obsessive bitterness is your fundamental, fatal flaw:

I’m not blaming the EU. The people I blame are everyone involved in the idea, the passing of and the whole process of the referendum. You seem incapable of seeing anything but Remain= good, Leave=evil. It’s really not like that.

 But, despite that, WE, as a democratic society, which includes you, voted to leave.
You ‘own’ it as much as I do. You have as much responsibility to make it work as I do.

You do have two options:
1. Own it. Stop moaning - it absolutely makes no difference now. It’s done. Help the country make it work.

2 Don’t own it. Live in the EU.

You say you're not blaming the EU, yet your first six words, and your previous posts, say the oposite.
 
Face facts. YOU believed the leave lies. YOU voted leave either accepting or ignoring the consequences. YOU, and others like you are responsible for this mess; not remainers, not the EU, YOU!
 
That's not me being bitter, that's just facts. You say the people you blame are everyone involved in the idea, the passing of and the whole process of the referendum, yet YOU were part of the passing of the vote to leave the EU. So shoulder some blame, stop trying to pass off your responsibility by deflection. Start out by telling us what you want to happen and what needs to be done to make it happen - you know, the WHAT and the HOW you should have thought about before you put your X in the leave box. You can start with the NI/Republic border issue - something I believe to be very important going forward. Oysters are a minor issue in comparison!
 
This is supposed to be the Brexit Benefits thread. I posted a potentially major financial sector benefit earlier in the thread yet you, (and others), have not commented on it, preferring to point the finger, (incorrectly), at the EU for being awkward!

[belton rover]

That is an incredibly bitter response, Not.

Edit: I didn’t believe the lies. I was absolutely sick to death of both sides treating me as an ignorant fool. Playing dangerous games for their own self gratification. That’s why Cameron started this in the first place

Something had to change, which is why, I think, I voted the way I did.

[belton rover]

And, Not, calling the EU bitter has nothing to do with blaming them for what has happened. I have never said the EU are to blame for Brexit.

[idler]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

[Ldr]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

I am, 5st 4lb since july

[Not Now Kato]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

I am, 5st 4lb since july

If that was planned, well done indeed. 

[Ldr]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

I am, 5st 4lb since july

If that was planned, well done indeed. 

Cheers NNK, very much deliberate

[idler]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

I am, 5st 4lb since july

If that was planned, well done indeed. 

Cheers NNK, very much deliberate

How did you manage it Ldr?
I'm dreading the first session back at the gym. I've always used exercise as a way to keep my weight down.
At 72 my metabolism has slowed right down and little gym over the last 12 months has really got me down.

[Ldr]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

I am, 5st 4lb since july

If that was planned, well done indeed. 

Cheers NNK, very much deliberate

How did you manage it Ldr?
I'm dreading the first session back at the gym. I've always used exercise as a way to keep my weight down.
At 72 my metabolism has slowed right down and little gym over the last 12 months has really got me down.

Total change of diet and slimming world, found it very filling but on the right stuff

[idler]

We eat fresh food most of the time but old school in not leaving or wasting anything. It just gets harder as you get older.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

I am, 5st 4lb since july

Brilliant! Congratulations. I thought I was ding well losing a stone and a bit, but 5st is going some.

[Ldr]

The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.

I am, 5st 4lb since july

Brilliant! Congratulations. I thought I was ding well losing a stone and a bit, but 5st is going some.

Cheers BST appreciate it

[BillyStubbsTears]

So on the shellfish issue, the line from the Govt that the EU has changed the rules and deliberately and unfairly hit British fishermen in an unexpected attack has been most vocally pushed by food minister George Eustice.

Which is odd, because back in December, he was writing to MPs to say that his Department was signing up to precisely these conditions.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcmartynoates/status/1365321641362866178

I guess he just has a short memory. He'll not be lying through his teeth to try to tell the public that all the Brexit problems are due to them cheating bas**rds in Brussels.

[selby]

  According to the latest polls Labour look like they need to start making a lot up just to stay in touch.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Which latest polls?

[Bentley Bullet]

More Bible readings.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/27/johnsons-poll-lead-over-labour-boosted-by-covid-vaccine-rollout

[selby]

  Some proper Commy selective readers on here.

[Not Now Kato]

  Some proper Commy selective readers on here.

Just look what Brexiters voted for....
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/04/brexit-northern-ireland-loyalist-armies-renounce-good-friday-agreement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
 
This isn't likely to end well

[belton rover]

  Some proper Commy selective readers on here.

Just look what Brexiters voted for....
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/04/brexit-northern-ireland-loyalist-armies-renounce-good-friday-agreement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
 
This isn't likely to end well

I can tell you one crystal clear, here and now benefit of Brexit. It’s outed people like you. People who are quite prepared to make generalised, quite wicked statements about the ‘people’ who voted to leave.
How dare you imply, no, explicitly state that I, and everyone else who voted leave, did so in the hope of the Good Friday agreement being renounced.
Take your f**king poison somewhere else.

[Not Now Kato]

  Some proper Commy selective readers on here.

Just look what Brexiters voted for....
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/04/brexit-northern-ireland-loyalist-armies-renounce-good-friday-agreement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
 
This isn't likely to end well

I can tell you one crystal clear, here and now benefit of Brexit. It’s outed people like you. People who are quite prepared to make generalised, quite wicked statements about the ‘people’ who voted to leave.
How dare you imply, no, explicitly state that I, and everyone else who voted leave, did so in the hope of the Good Friday agreement being renounced.
Take your f**king poison somewhere else.

But I didn't say that Belton.  Please read what I wrote!

[belton rover]

Brexiter (noun) a person who is in favour of the United Kingdom withdrawing from the European Union.
By definition, that’s me.

You wrote: Look what Brexiters voted for.

What is it you didn’t write, exactly?

[Glyn_Wigley]

He didn't 'explicitly state that I, and everyone else who voted leave, did so in the hope of the Good Friday agreement being renounced'. You wrote that.

Brexit is having consequences, a lot of them unforeseen by those who voted for it, including this. But they are still consequences of how they voted.

[belton rover]

He didn't write 'in the hope of the Good Friday Agreement being renounced'. You wrote that.

Brexit is having consequences, a lot of them unforeseen by those who voted for it, including this. But they are still consequences of how they voted.

If you genuinely vote for something, Glyn, you hope it will happen. Always.

Your point is very, very different to his.

[Glyn_Wigley]

He didn't write 'in the hope of the Good Friday Agreement being renounced'. You wrote that.

Brexit is having consequences, a lot of them unforeseen by those who voted for it, including this. But they are still consequences of how they voted.

If you genuinely vote for something, Glyn, you hope it will happen. Always.

Your point is very, very different to his.

And you also have to accept the consequences as being a result of what you vote for, even if you didn't foresee them.