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Quote from: belton rover on February 23, 2021, 10:03:10 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 23, 2021, 09:27:31 pmBelton.EVERY sovereign market chooses who to trade with!The salient point here is that the EU hasn't changed its policies to hit us, which is what Tory ministers and Tory papers have been saying.Third or fourth time I've repeated this now so apologies if I'm sounding like a broken record, but the following point is key and doesn't seem to be getting through.The EU's policy on fish imports is that fish caught in Class B waters cannot be imported into the EU from a third country for purification in the EU. That, apparently, has been the policy for years. 8 weeks ago, we were not a third country. We chose to become a third country. So the problems this causes for our fishing industry is entirely and solely a result of our choice of policy.You seem to still be complaining that the EU won't bend the rules to help us out. But that's missing THE massive point. The EU cannot and will not allow third countries to have selected benefits of SM membership. Full stop. That will not happen because it would mean the destruction of the SM.And, crucially, anyone who was prepared to look at the issues dispassionately knew this years ago. So the Govt putting on a surprised face now and shouting "unfair" means they are either stupid, or deliberately deceiving people. And I don't think they are stupid.You misunderstand my point. I’m not complaining that they won’t bend the rules for us. I’m expressing my view that choosing not to trade with us BECAUSE we left is not in the best interests of their members who will suffer because of it. They have every right to make things as difficult as they can, but I wouldn’t have thought even the EU would do that at all costs. I also think that in time, they will welcome such trade again if it benefits them. You don't seem to get it do you? The EU are NOT making things difficult for us, WE have made it difficult for US! You voted leave, own it, stop blaming the EU, deliver the lies you believed in!
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 23, 2021, 09:27:31 pmBelton.EVERY sovereign market chooses who to trade with!The salient point here is that the EU hasn't changed its policies to hit us, which is what Tory ministers and Tory papers have been saying.Third or fourth time I've repeated this now so apologies if I'm sounding like a broken record, but the following point is key and doesn't seem to be getting through.The EU's policy on fish imports is that fish caught in Class B waters cannot be imported into the EU from a third country for purification in the EU. That, apparently, has been the policy for years. 8 weeks ago, we were not a third country. We chose to become a third country. So the problems this causes for our fishing industry is entirely and solely a result of our choice of policy.You seem to still be complaining that the EU won't bend the rules to help us out. But that's missing THE massive point. The EU cannot and will not allow third countries to have selected benefits of SM membership. Full stop. That will not happen because it would mean the destruction of the SM.And, crucially, anyone who was prepared to look at the issues dispassionately knew this years ago. So the Govt putting on a surprised face now and shouting "unfair" means they are either stupid, or deliberately deceiving people. And I don't think they are stupid.You misunderstand my point. I’m not complaining that they won’t bend the rules for us. I’m expressing my view that choosing not to trade with us BECAUSE we left is not in the best interests of their members who will suffer because of it. They have every right to make things as difficult as they can, but I wouldn’t have thought even the EU would do that at all costs. I also think that in time, they will welcome such trade again if it benefits them.
Belton.EVERY sovereign market chooses who to trade with!The salient point here is that the EU hasn't changed its policies to hit us, which is what Tory ministers and Tory papers have been saying.Third or fourth time I've repeated this now so apologies if I'm sounding like a broken record, but the following point is key and doesn't seem to be getting through.The EU's policy on fish imports is that fish caught in Class B waters cannot be imported into the EU from a third country for purification in the EU. That, apparently, has been the policy for years. 8 weeks ago, we were not a third country. We chose to become a third country. So the problems this causes for our fishing industry is entirely and solely a result of our choice of policy.You seem to still be complaining that the EU won't bend the rules to help us out. But that's missing THE massive point. The EU cannot and will not allow third countries to have selected benefits of SM membership. Full stop. That will not happen because it would mean the destruction of the SM.And, crucially, anyone who was prepared to look at the issues dispassionately knew this years ago. So the Govt putting on a surprised face now and shouting "unfair" means they are either stupid, or deliberately deceiving people. And I don't think they are stupid.
Many of us are trying to make it work. My own staff are currently trying to sort out the paperwork for a key item of equipment we want to import from Italy which would have been one click 8 weeks ago. To date we've spent 25% of the total cost on admin.But it's not as simple as just "making it work". We also have a responsibility to reflect on how and why we got here. And that goes to the core of this discussion. I'd be delighted to see our oyster sellers find a way round the current problems as you suggest they might. But there's a bigger issue. It's the fact that the people who brought us Brexit by lying to us are still lying to us now about the consequences. That was the core of the issue. The fact that the Govt and their press supporters have been insisting that the reason our shellfish industry is on the rocks is because the EU have chosen to make it hard for them. Which is a demonstrable lie.And if we shrug and ignore that, they will lie to us about the next big decision. And the next. Democracy only works if people hold them responsible.
Quote from: Not Now Kato on February 23, 2021, 10:32:02 pmQuote from: belton rover on February 23, 2021, 10:03:10 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 23, 2021, 09:27:31 pmBelton.EVERY sovereign market chooses who to trade with!The salient point here is that the EU hasn't changed its policies to hit us, which is what Tory ministers and Tory papers have been saying.Third or fourth time I've repeated this now so apologies if I'm sounding like a broken record, but the following point is key and doesn't seem to be getting through.The EU's policy on fish imports is that fish caught in Class B waters cannot be imported into the EU from a third country for purification in the EU. That, apparently, has been the policy for years. 8 weeks ago, we were not a third country. We chose to become a third country. So the problems this causes for our fishing industry is entirely and solely a result of our choice of policy.You seem to still be complaining that the EU won't bend the rules to help us out. But that's missing THE massive point. The EU cannot and will not allow third countries to have selected benefits of SM membership. Full stop. That will not happen because it would mean the destruction of the SM.And, crucially, anyone who was prepared to look at the issues dispassionately knew this years ago. So the Govt putting on a surprised face now and shouting "unfair" means they are either stupid, or deliberately deceiving people. And I don't think they are stupid.You misunderstand my point. I’m not complaining that they won’t bend the rules for us. I’m expressing my view that choosing not to trade with us BECAUSE we left is not in the best interests of their members who will suffer because of it. They have every right to make things as difficult as they can, but I wouldn’t have thought even the EU would do that at all costs. I also think that in time, they will welcome such trade again if it benefits them. You don't seem to get it do you? The EU are NOT making things difficult for us, WE have made it difficult for US! You voted leave, own it, stop blaming the EU, deliver the lies you believed in!The EU are bitter, bitter, bitter, but not nearly as bitter as you are.For all your knowledge and passion, your obsessive bitterness is your fundamental, fatal flaw:I’m not blaming the EU. The people I blame are everyone involved in the idea, the passing of and the whole process of the referendum. You seem incapable of seeing anything but Remain= good, Leave=evil. It’s really not like that. But, despite that, WE, as a democratic society, which includes you, voted to leave.You ‘own’ it as much as I do. You have as much responsibility to make it work as I do.You do have two options:1. Own it. Stop moaning - it absolutely makes no difference now. It’s done. Help the country make it work.2 Don’t own it. Live in the EU.
The problem is that at the moment we are all losers.
Quote from: idler on February 24, 2021, 03:29:59 pmThe problem is that at the moment we are all losers.I am, 5st 4lb since july
Quote from: Ldr on February 24, 2021, 04:08:54 pmQuote from: idler on February 24, 2021, 03:29:59 pmThe problem is that at the moment we are all losers.I am, 5st 4lb since july If that was planned, well done indeed.
Quote from: Not Now Kato on February 24, 2021, 04:33:59 pmQuote from: Ldr on February 24, 2021, 04:08:54 pmQuote from: idler on February 24, 2021, 03:29:59 pmThe problem is that at the moment we are all losers.I am, 5st 4lb since july If that was planned, well done indeed. Cheers NNK, very much deliberate
Quote from: Ldr on February 24, 2021, 04:36:44 pmQuote from: Not Now Kato on February 24, 2021, 04:33:59 pmQuote from: Ldr on February 24, 2021, 04:08:54 pmQuote from: idler on February 24, 2021, 03:29:59 pmThe problem is that at the moment we are all losers.I am, 5st 4lb since july If that was planned, well done indeed. Cheers NNK, very much deliberateHow did you manage it Ldr? I'm dreading the first session back at the gym. I've always used exercise as a way to keep my weight down.At 72 my metabolism has slowed right down and little gym over the last 12 months has really got me down.
Quote from: Ldr on February 24, 2021, 04:08:54 pmQuote from: idler on February 24, 2021, 03:29:59 pmThe problem is that at the moment we are all losers.I am, 5st 4lb since julyBrilliant! Congratulations. I thought I was ding well losing a stone and a bit, but 5st is going some.
Some proper Commy selective readers on here.
Quote from: selby on February 28, 2021, 03:47:43 pm Some proper Commy selective readers on here. Just look what Brexiters voted for.... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/04/brexit-northern-ireland-loyalist-armies-renounce-good-friday-agreement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other This isn't likely to end well
Quote from: Not Now Kato on March 04, 2021, 03:58:52 pmQuote from: selby on February 28, 2021, 03:47:43 pm Some proper Commy selective readers on here. Just look what Brexiters voted for.... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/04/brexit-northern-ireland-loyalist-armies-renounce-good-friday-agreement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other This isn't likely to end wellI can tell you one crystal clear, here and now benefit of Brexit. It’s outed people like you. People who are quite prepared to make generalised, quite wicked statements about the ‘people’ who voted to leave. How dare you imply, no, explicitly state that I, and everyone else who voted leave, did so in the hope of the Good Friday agreement being renounced.Take your f**king poison somewhere else.
He didn't write 'in the hope of the Good Friday Agreement being renounced'. You wrote that. Brexit is having consequences, a lot of them unforeseen by those who voted for it, including this. But they are still consequences of how they voted.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on March 04, 2021, 05:05:11 pmHe didn't write 'in the hope of the Good Friday Agreement being renounced'. You wrote that. Brexit is having consequences, a lot of them unforeseen by those who voted for it, including this. But they are still consequences of how they voted.If you genuinely vote for something, Glyn, you hope it will happen. Always. Your point is very, very different to his.